What religion is Santa and candy canes?

Not to be argumentative but it isn't obvious. There are a lot of Christians that don't celebrate Christmas. Our family is Christian. We celebrate Christmas but in a totally secular fashion. I have never taught my kids that we are celebrating Christ's birthday. Everything else in your post I totally agree with.

 

But why is okay for my kids to learn about Jewish holidays or other days important to various religions but it is wrong for my friend who is 100% Jewish to have a tree and Santa visit? We play with the dreidel and I have made latkes. I have books on all the winter holidays from when I was teaching and read them to my kids. So how is it any different? She doesn't have the baby Jesus in the manger, but to her, like me, Santa is not religious. He is about giving and enjoying family. It was sad when one of her children asked why Santa didn't love Jewish kids and so she did what was right for her family. I love what she did and think in no way did it take away from her religion or beliefs.

 

I can see your point of view and I wish I could find a way to articulate why what your friend is doing is so troubling. Maybe Esther will chime in, but here are a few thoughts:

1) Hannukah is a festival, not a religious holiday for jews. Because it's so close to Christmas, it's viewed as the Jewish Christmas, but it really isn't.
2) As more Jews assimilate, inter-marry, etc, we are losing the foundation of our religion and observance. It's getting diluted. And with enough assimilation and inter-marriage, the religion could vanish.
3) I have no problem with Jews (or any other religion) learning about the customs and observances of other religions - but that's different than practicing it in your own home.
4) You say she is devout, I know of no devout/observant Jew who would allow Christmas in her house, is she married to a non-jew? I'm not trying to attack your friend, she is entitled to do what is best for her family, but it sends a message that bothers me - it sends a message that you can be Jewish and celebrate Christmas. I think that message is wrong.

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense, but it's hard to articulate this without sounding very un-PC (and this isn't the Den).

 

Miriam, I totally get what you are saying, and agree 100%!

For us, it is different, in that DH is Christian. It does help that we go to his parents house every year for Christmas, so we don't decorate or anything for it because we simply aren't here, and I refuse to do it. If DH wants christmas decorations up, he has to do it, and he never seems to get around to it I do put up the Hanukkah decorations though. That said, my children see Christmas as Daddy's holiday, and they celebrate Hanukkah, because they are Jewish. They totally get that other kids have traditions that they don't, and that it is OK. They like to share with their friends why they get to stay out of school on the High Holy days.

 

You really do need to have a thread on that over in the Den.

 

I am married to a Jew and I was raised Catholic, but I really am not sure what I am these days if anything. We are raising our children Jewish; however, we do celebrate Christmas. I made it very clear before we got married that if we had kids I wanted to celebrate essentially the commercialism of the Christian holidays knowing that we would be raising them Jewish. I want my kids to experience the anticipation of Christmas morning, enjoy decorating a Christmas tree, and listen to holiday music . Really one of the most important things to me was to be able to include my side of the family and their traditions and incorporate them into raising my kids. I didnt want them to feel left out with their Grandchildren. We dont teach them the religious aspect of the holidays, but we do celebrate how I was raised in the giving and being with family spirit and the occasional viewing of Christmas Vacation :lol: To us, you can be Jewish and celebrate Christmas, just not in the religious sense.

 

You're such a bad teacher... promoting literature like that! Shameful!! Tsk Tsk.

Maybe you should have had a party for the parents. Given them some fire whiskey and loosened them up a little. Target audience Kim... Come on!

I personally think it's a great message. Acceptance.

 

Has the secret recruitment process for AAA changed to "disagree with Cheryl"?

Why didn't anyone tell me? How am I supposed to recruit unsuspecting souls without knowing stuff like this?

 

All those things are non-religious elements that have been incorporated into religious holidays celebrated by Christians. I would refer to it as religious by association. Most people that are not Christians or Atheists/Agnostics with Christian backgrounds do not celebrate Easter (or Christmas).

Chanukah apart from only being a minor holiday also incorporates a lot of non-religious customs and traditions but I have yet to hear anybody refer to them as not Jewish.

I think it is a good thing to learn about the traditions (religious or otherwise) of other groups and I think it is excellent that you do try to teach your children about them. However, if you live in a country where the majority of the population celebrates a certain holiday we are exposed to those traditions everywhere. I can't go to the supermarket or the bakery without seeing Christmas decorations all over the place. Whilst I won't pretend that I know everything about Christmas I certainly know more about it than the Christmas equivalent of latkes and dreidels. I also didn't need to celebrate Christmas myself or go out of my way to learn about it.

Inter-marriage is not a danger to Judaism. The response by some Jews to inter-marriage is.

 

I get what you are saying, but my friend isn't teaching the true meaning behind Christmas, she just wanted her kids to experience Santa like other kids. To her it isn't about the birth of Christ it is about seeing her kids faces when the unwrap the presents and see that Santa ate their cookies. Her kids go to a Jewish school and she teaches the Hebrew class. Don't worry you aren't being un-PC and even if you were it would be okay with me. I appreciate your POV.

 

Next year I will work on it! I learned how to make my own butterbeer this Halloween so it will be on!!! One of my parents went off on the other mom who was complaining and said "My daughter couldn't read when she first came to her room, now she reads Harry Potter. I personally don't care if she teaches her from the Satanic Verses, my baby can read!" That was bit dramatic, but I loved the support!

 

That is really cool, Sharon! I actually wish my kids could participate in something like that. I really enjoy learning about other religions. I am very happy and comfortable in my own faith, but am fascinated by the beliefs, customs, and traditions of other faiths/religions. For example, thru the websites you gave me a couple years ago I learned alot about Passover and Hannukah, but I know nearly nothing about Kwanza or Chinese New Year. I will have to research those too!!

 

Wow, someone better be getting a warning for this thread, this is way worse than leggings. I just wrote my opinions about religion 10 different ways and finally decided to just leave it alone. I'll just say Christmas and Hanukkah are whatever you want them to be. Want to top your tree with a menorah? Go for it! Does Hanukkah Bob leave dreidels underneathe your Hanukkah bush? That's Great! Maybe your family family goes to mass and does that stations of the cross or something. Good for you. Why is everything a fight?

My opinion on the school thing is that no holidays have a place in school. Kids should go there solely to learn. Birthdays, Christmas, Harvest Fest, Winter Solstice, Talk Like a Pirate Day... They have no place in school, leave that crap to be taught at home.

 

See, I don't agree (and yes, I know I have to take this to the Den, but I wanted to address some comments) that this is acceptance. Acceptance is about taking people for who they are and respecting their beliefs. To me, blending religions in your home is not a good thing. I think it's confusing to children and it dilutes both religions. Not to mention many people have said Santa and stockings are the commercial elements of the holiday, how is that productive? to me, it sounds more like trying to fit in and not rock the boat...ok, taking it to the Den..

You had me until the end...Care to elaborate on the comment about the response by some Jews? Feel free to track this thread into the Den.

The bolded part is what concerns me. It's like she is saying being jewish isn't enough - you are different, but I don't want you to feel different, and that's what is hard for me as jew. it's hard to be different (and I'm not that observant)..although not that hard in Southern CA working in Entertainment..but if I lived in the middle of the country there is a still a lot of bigotry and prejudice against Jews. That's why what your friend is doing is troubling. I have no issue with kids visiting Xmas, I did it, but it's different to bring into your home.

I agree, learning about other religions is very important, but that's not what some of the folks were talking about earlier in the thread.

 

I understand you are trying to bring levity to this thread - but mixing religious symbols is something that I find 'not funny' and somewhat insensitive to those who value those symbols and observances.

 

If you start a thread on the topic in the Den I'll elaborate further but in essense I think inter-marriage is inevitable. Therefore accusing people who do inter-marry (or are the children of one) for being (albeit partially) responsible for the extinction of a religion (or more importantly the traditions and languages that go along with it) is more likely to drive people away than it is to encourage people to maintain these same traditions.

 

Thread started....

 

Children are not robots. Most workplaces have little celebrations--if someone has a birthday, if someone leaves the company, family picnic day--to break up the routine, because that kind of thing increases productivity. Children also need breaks in routine and things to look forward to. It would be nice if the schools could do this and avoid religion, but they'd have to make up a whole new set of holidays. I like Sharon's idea of holidays around the world. Learn a little about a lot of different things. I wish our schools would do that.

The reason it's always a fight is that religion brings out the fight in people. It's the innate tribal nature of humans. We polarize very quickly into "us" and "them" because millions of years ago the difference between "us" and "them" could be a matter of life and death. So now you see people getting all worked up and smashing things if their sports team loses.

 

I find it a bit offensive to tell other people what they should or shouldn't be doing. OK, maybe she does want her kids to fit in. What's it to you? I was kind of with you, because I do know some Jewish people who aren't too keen on Santa and Christmas decorations, and always in these threads someone has a Santa-loving Jewish friend. But, this is just as irritating to me as Christians telling me I have no right to celebrate Christmas. I have been thinking about celebrating some Jewish holidays as I do come from a Jewish background, but more as a cultural thing and not religious. Is that a big no-no?

 

Yes, and people have different ways of accepting others. Some do it at a distance, and some bring stuff into their homes, so they can appreciate it themselves. I see nothing wrong with that.

We celebrate lots of festivals in our home. The kids don't seem confused just yet . But, you know, the ones who don't do it, do seem to know less about other belief systems.

Besides, religions are supposed to be about love and peace. I don't see how welcoming the celebration of those two words could ever be considered "not good." :unknw:

 

Did I read the OP right? A school has a gift shop? Why is no one up in arms about that? The issue is not what they sell, but that they sell. A gift shop? Really? Is this a public school? What is a public school doing with a gift shop?

 

I won't get sucked into the rest of this thread, but that was also my first question! Seriously? A gift shop?

 

My high school had a school store. They sold candy bars, notebooks, clothing with the high school name/mascot on it, stuff like that. It was run by the kids and the teacher in the business classes to teach them about running a business. This was back in the 80s. And it was a public high school, I think they still had it when my mom was working there, not sure about now. I do know that they have a cafe there now that is run by the culinary students.

 

When I taught, we had a gift store and if I can remember correctly, the money went to gym and playground equipment.

 

It sort of goes to the overall philosophical question of how do you stay true to yourself and still include others. Kim/2 jellybeans said her friend was devout in her faith, in my experience Jews who are devout in their faith don't celebrate Christmas or Santa - period. I know that within the Jewish religion the way I practice my faith is an issue for those who are orthodox (don't keep kosher, wear short skirts, the list is endless). So from their pov I'm not being observant enough - however that to me is different than practicing another religion.

I guess it boils down to "why" she is bringing Santa into the home. I just see no reason unless her husband is Christian. In your case, being Jewish is part of your heritage so I can understand trying to reconnect with that and share it. My SIL made Matzo ball soup last year and her kids go to Jewish preschool. I wouldn't tell you what to do, well i might try :biggrin: - but I just think sometimes people take the path of least resistance. And I also think we have become a country of dabblers - and when you dabble, you dilute...just my opinion. If you mix a soup with too many flavors, does it become tasteless? Not picking on you....not saying you are making tasteless soup, just asking a question :0



I did say up thread she had the right to do what she wanted - but I took issue with how it was being presented (i.e. Santa doesn't love Jewish kids).

Regarding

 

Sorry, but I won't be joining you in the den, so I am responding here.

It isn't that being Jewish isn't enough, but a lot of holidays are for religious reasons but our society has commercialized them and kids want to take part. The Easter Bunny visits her house too, but trust me she does not believe that Jesus rose again and joined God in Heaven. I celebrate Easter, but we don't talk about the Jesus aspect of it, for many reasons, but mostly because I'm just want the to enjoy and believe in the fun stuff for a little while longer. They think Easter is about finding eggs and getting a basket from a secret, large bunny and that is okay with me. Halloween has religious foundations but most kids no matter what religion they are (other than Jehovah Witness) think it is about dressing up and getting free candy. It isn't wrong, isn't hurting anyone, and doesn't make them less of whatever religion they are, it makes them kids. Life is hard enough and they grow up too quickly, let them be little and enjoy something as simple as a guy in a red suit bringing gifts, or the bunny bring baskets, the tooth fairly bring money and the Great Pumpkin taking the candy and replacing it with a toy.

 

I just read this, we must have been posting at the same time. The "Santa loves Jewish kids too" comment came straight from my friend because I asked her how her children felt about Christmas v. Hanukkah and Santa. She looked at me and very bluntly said "Santa loves Jewish kids like he does all others." Then she elaborated about how she handles it and I respect her for it.
As for dabbling diluting, I think that if we don't dabble then we segregate and to me that just leads to misunderstandings and less acceptance.
I grew up in Kentucky and honestly never knew a Jewish person until I met my husband and visited the northeast. When we lived in NY and had cadets from West Point over for dinner I panicked because I did not know what the Jewish cadets could and could not eat, so I called my friend. She taught me so much and helped me in learning about something I knew nothing.

 

So did my high school in the 80s. School supplies and candy, run by business students and the money went to fund purchases for the school.

 

I disagree. I tend to be a dabbler, I get "into" something, then drop it. But then sometimes while dabbling, I find something I really like and stick with it. I think that's how a lot of people find their religion. In a way, it's how I found my non-belief belief system. I feel it's a good thing to experience other culture's customs and traditions. It's fun, and you learn something. And if it speaks to you, you can adopt it as your own. What's wrong with that?

 

A few things (I am staying out of the main argument of the thread):

I LOVE that the preschool the girls are attending does a holiday celebration. Each child will share a tradition (religious or non) of their families in the weeks in Dec. Plus they will read books on as many holidays as she could find books on (Kwanzaa, Hanaukka, Christmas, Ramadan, Winter Solstice, Boxing Day etc). I think it is wonderful for the whole class since the kids come from a very diverse background. I love that my girls will get to experience the differences in their peers. They then will have a Winter Celebration of some kind before the long break.

The Upper Elem. Schools here have a school store. I think it is a good way for the 5th graders to learn real world skills. They sell school mascot stuff and school supplies---nothing objectionable/candy.

To the OP: I think schools go overboard in trying not to offend anyone, they alienate everyone.I am sorry your schools are choosing to get rid of it all. Celebrate the differences in schools-- most holidays have religious overtones of some sort, why not explain the differences and let children enjoy what makes them different. Kids spend large parts of their days in school, they should be able to share small parts of home life with their peers (as well as share small parts of school at home). Knowledge creates tolerance--shunning something creates suspicion & fear.

I am upset to see so many people being non-tolerant to each other and the wide variety of beliefs on TS. No matter what religion ( or no religion at all) , it is a time of year to celebrate the end of one year and the beginning of a new one.

I want my girls to treat everyone with respect and dignity, no matter their beliefs. Our world is one of diversity in many ways. A conversation on TS is not likely to alter anyones deep seated belief system--- I dont know why grown adults cant just BE NICE and accept others point of views are not the same as your own rather than bashing them. Agree to disagree. Just my 2c. Usually TS is such a happy & supportive place for me and this thread made me a bit sad.

 

I am going to give you a big Woot for that post!!!

 

I do believe this is a public school. My childrens public school also has a gift shop and each year they have bought me an ornament and Daddy a flashlight from it since they started school.

 

The girls school has something similar. They send home a list that we write down peoples names the girls are allowed to buy for (we can even include the pets) and how much they can spend on each person. Then a person helps take the girls shopping and bags everything up. Then when the girls get home they wrap the girls themselves and hand it out.

The toys are cheesy little things but they love doing it. Plus I know the school makes some money off it.

 

Wow, am I the only one who didn't really read anything here as super disrespectful of others' beliefs? I guess I've been spending too much time in the Den....

 

I think we all pretty much know that Santa, candy candy & stockings are symbols of Christmas. I don't think it matters where they fall on the religious/secular spectrum. I'm going to bet this same school also doesn't allow any brightly colored eggs, cute yellow chicks or "holiday baskets" in their store for Easter either. The kids have a zillion other places to buy these items - why do they need to do it at school? I think Momto2es post summed up exactly why the school doesn't think it's appropriate to carry them.

HOw did I make it through 5 Halloweens without this genius idea?? THank you! Next year the Great Pumpkin is going to pay us a visit too

I LOVE this. I will (hopefully) be stealing this in the future!!