What religion is Santa and candy canes?

Discussion in 'General' started by twin_trip_mommy, Nov 17, 2009.

  1. twin_trip_mommy

    twin_trip_mommy Well-Known Member

  2. OneBoyOneGirl

    OneBoyOneGirl Well-Known Member

    Hehe, well you guys were the ones who said Christmas was supposed to be all about Christ...I guess you got what you wanted. :smilie_xmas_116:
    6 people like this.
  3. twin_trip_mommy

    twin_trip_mommy Well-Known Member

    "you guys" -- "what you wanted" ???

    This is a serious question and this is not the "den".

    I NEVER said Christmas had to be about Christ for everyone.
  4. OneBoyOneGirl

    OneBoyOneGirl Well-Known Member

    :lmao Yes, a very serious question-what religion is Santa and candy canes, in green and red font. Carry on then.

    PS: Maybe you ask it seriously next time, that would help.

    But to *try* and answer your question, maybe they are just trying to do away with all things Christmas bc they are banning all things ALL religious holidays. Santa doesnt visit Jewish kids, and they dont hang up stockings or have a tree to put candy canes on.
  5. twin_trip_mommy

    twin_trip_mommy Well-Known Member

    I personally do not see "Santa" "candy canes" or "stockings" as religious. They do not fit in with any "religion". People from many "religions" participate in those parts of Christmas but they are not a part of their religion.

    Do people who are not Christian celebrate Easter? I would guess yes. Easter is not a religious holiday for everyone unless you celebrate it a certain way.

    This school is banning anything Santa, candy canes, red or green. I don't know because It was not said but I am guessing they are also banning anything blue, silver and gold also. I say these colors because I just set a Hanukkah end cap at work with gold and silver colored menorahs, blue, silver and gold colored candles and gift bags.
  6. caba

    caba Banned

    Santa is Christmas. No, he's not part of the religion Christianity, but there aren't people that have Santa come to visit who are not celebrating Christmas. There aren't random people who hang up stockings for no reason at all. Even if it's purely secular, they are still celebrating Christmas. I might be an atheist, but I celebrate Christmas. It's still the name of the holiday.

    It's very obvious what holiday Santa is associated with, and what holiday a silver and blue colors are associated with. Even if you don't celebrate the religious aspects of the holiday, they are still associated with a very specific holiday.
    1 person likes this.
  7. OneBoyOneGirl

    OneBoyOneGirl Well-Known Member

    Oh man, I hope we dont have to talk about easter egg hunting having nothing to do with Christianity again do we? But, I will give you that what the school is doing by banning Santa is above and beyond the call of duty bc I doubt that the people who dont participate in the Santa myth would mind him being there like they would mind religious symbols being in the school.

    I guess they are just going with a no-tolerance on imaginary beings rule for the holiday season this year. :ibiggrin:
  8. bkimberly

    bkimberly Well-Known Member

    Normally I would not respond to one of your posts, but I had to on this one. One of my best friends is Jewish and she put up a Christmas tree, stockings and sets out cookies. Santa does visit her kids. She is devout in her religion but told me that Santa loves Jewish children too. I thought it was sweet and it does not take away from their beliefs at all. She celebrates Hanukkah but with all the Christmas decorations around and her kids wondering about the big guy in the red suit she made that decision. I don't think of Santa as a religious figure even though the holiday he is associated with is religious. Although in today's society Christmas is more commercial than anything.
  9. caba

    caba Banned

    I don't think anyone is saying you can't celebrate the pagan holidays as a christian/jew/etc.

    The question is what religion is Santa? Um, the Santa myth belongs to Christmas.

    If a place is doing away with all holiday symbolism, than Santa has to go too.
  10. Anne-J

    Anne-J Well-Known Member

    It belongs to a religion children very seriously follow. Imagination!

    But, let's take that away from them too.
    1 person likes this.
  11. caba

    caba Banned

    So she frankensteined her own holiday! Fabulous! Santa is still a symbol of Christmas for the majority of people. Why are people being argumentative about this? It's not really all that complicated ... Most jewish people that choose to only celebrate Hannukah do not include Santa.
  12. rissakaye

    rissakaye Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    My understanding about the candy cane was that it's origins are representing the shepherd's staffs of the shepherds who came to visit the infant Jesus.

    Since another name for Santa Claus is Saint Nickolaus, it would probably be the Saint part that gets him declared religious.

    Both I think are less well-known references, but the case could be made that they are religious.

  13. Anne-J

    Anne-J Well-Known Member

    Yes, there's that too. Thanks for the reminder. Stockings are also connected to him.

    Erica's right... Saint Nick has to go.
  14. OneBoyOneGirl

    OneBoyOneGirl Well-Known Member

    Should I feel grateful? :thanks:

    That is nice that your friend does that so her kids dont feel left out bc they are Jewish but I dont think that means that everyone does it or that they should add all religious references in bc of the one or two parents who do things like that. You know, its not too hard to pick up this kind of 1$ crap at the well...everything is a dollar store. I dont understand why the parents are in such a tizzy about no Santa.
  15. bkimberly

    bkimberly Well-Known Member

    That is how I see Santa, part of my kids imagination. We are not religious by any means but to us Christmas is about giving and thinking of others. Santa is just a fun part of it.

    Not being argumentative, merely sharing what one my Jewish friends does with her kids that I think is so wonderful.

    Yes, you should feel grateful. :ibiggrin:

    As for making a big deal I think it is just one more thing that is being taken away from a society that is already overly politically correct. Santa isn't in church, he is a mythical figure that brings joy to kids, and inspires imagination and the spirit of giving. So do we get rid of the big guy in malls because someone who doesn't believe might be offended? I look for anything that brings about a wonderful feeling for my kids, Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy (when they lose teeth), heck, we even do the Great Pumpkin! We sprinkle pumpkin seeds out back and my kids get to pick one piece of candy for how old they are, this year it was four pieces. The rest is left out for the Great Pumpkin and when he comes looking for pumpkin seeds and smells ours he finds the candy and takes it away and replaces it with a small toy. Nothing big or fancy, but it gets the candy out of the house and saves their teeth!

    Honestly, I think the stores at school should be done away with, not because of any religious association, but because some kids who don't have the money to go feel left out and it causes problems in the classroom.
  16. Stacy A.

    Stacy A. Well-Known Member

    I was going to answer similarly. Even though all of these things have been secularlized (I know, not a real word ;)), they do actually have roots connected to at least Catholicism if not Christianity in general. Stockings, too, since they come from the St. Nicholas story (which is great if you want to take the time to look it up!). Now, I don't think that the modern versions really have anything to do with Christianity, but they are associated with Christmas which is traditionally a Christian holiday. But, to go a little further I don't think even our commercial Christmas has much to do with Christ. Even atheists do the Santa thing. ;) I think if you want Christmas in general to be Christian, you have to make a point for it to be so. For me, it is absolutely a celebration of the birth of Christ and I truly desire for that not to be ignored, but realize that isn't true for our society in general and that the common modern Christmas has moved far away from that.
    1 person likes this.
  17. Snittens

    Snittens Well-Known Member

    I guess people just can't win, huh?
  18. rubyturquoise

    rubyturquoise Well-Known Member

    The schools are just stuck. Someone, somewhere will complain about something if they have any typical holiday fare.

    Our schools had a "harvest party" that coincided with "storybook character day" (where the kids dress up as characters from books) on Oct. 30. Now, we all know that's a Halloween party, but they can't say so, or people who think Halloween is "evil" will complain.

    That probably offends enough people who think Halloween is harmless that they have to do away with any traditional winter holiday symbolism to avoid a tit-for-tat situation.

    Everything is so polarized that they have to do all or nothing, and nothing is probably just easier--and cheaper.
  19. bkimberly

    bkimberly Well-Known Member

    It just sucks the fun out of it all! I did a huge unit on Harry Potter and the ending coincided with our character day/Fall celebration and all my kids came dressed as Hogwarts students. Parents from the other classrooms went straight to the principal and complained that I was teaching about voodoo and witchcraft! Luckily for me he supported me and told them to worry about their own kids. It is just sad.
  20. Snittens

    Snittens Well-Known Member

    I think people have too much time on their hands. One of the articles said that this has been the policy for years, and no one has complained. This isn't even about parties or decorations at the school, it's about what they can sell in the school store. Who cares?!!?! Is it really hindering your child's ability to celebrate the winter holiday of your choice if you cannot purchase an ornament at the school store?
    1 person likes this.
  21. agolden

    agolden Well-Known Member

    I'm Jewish. Growing up I did feel separate and apart and different during the Christmas season because of all of the Christmas decorations and references. But, you know what, I was different. I wasn't part of the majority. I was (and am) Jewish. It really made me feel like the rest of the world was Christian and I would have been more than happy not to have had those differences shoved down my throat all the time. And, though I can see how people can believe that Christmas and Santa have been so secularized/commercialized/corporatized that it doesn't have any religious meaning, if I engaged in putting up those decorations or celebrating it at my house then I feel that I'm just assimilating and furthering the alienation of other children who don't celebrate it (not only Jewish, there are other religions out there too). I have no trouble with everybody celebrating their own holidays, with having people open up their doors for others to experience those celebrations but when one religion/culture is so dominant whether in numbers or in access to finance or media (Toronto is very multicultural but the money is still largely White and Christian)that that culture is all you see, I am happy that school boards, which are for everybody, go out of their way to make their schools a welcoming place for everybody.
    5 people like this.
  22. Poohbear05

    Poohbear05 Well-Known Member

    Okay, to TWINTRIP mommy... here's my biggest issue with your post: Your signature has the christian fish in it, along with Rom 1:16-17

    "Romans 1:16-17 (King James Version)

    16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

    This passage suggests that each faith should be allowed to practice as they wish...

    Now, the meaning of Christmas as stated by Wikpedia:

    Christ·mas (krsms)
    1. A Christian feast commemorating the birth of Jesus.
    2. December 25, the day on which this feast is celebrated.
    3. Christmastide.

    A "CHRISTIAN" feast. Here inly's the problem that most people have with it. The Jews and Hanukah are left out, the Jahova Witness's are left out (Believe it or not, they do exchange gifts during the holidays) and everyone else is left out. That is why most people want 'Christmas' items removed from the schools, becuase it is being unfair to other religions.

    link here will explain the root meaning of the candy cane and it's association with Christianity.

    and THIS link here will explain the tradtion of the christmas stocking and it's relation to 'St. Nickolaus'.

    I'm not trying to be rude, but more educational and I'm a little offended that you would have marks of christianity in your signature yet are seemingly uneducated in the true meaning and tradition of Christmas as a christian based holiday.

    That being said, I am actually against them taking all things christmas, Easter and any other holiday out of the school systems. I think they could use it as an educational tool to teach of the diversities amongst us and how to make us come together despite those diversities. It's something to be celebrated, not brushed under a rug and forgotten about. But I also disagree with the commercialization that these Holidays get. We need to be teaching these children the TRUE MEANING of these holidays, not what they've become in the past 20 years or so...
  23. Snittens

    Snittens Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I kind of get tired of the "I know such-and-such Jew who just loves Christmas trees!" OK, but does that mean all other Jews, Muslims, Hindus, also love Christmas decorations and all things Christmas? It is just a big reminder that you are different, and everyone else is doing something you are not a part of.

    *No, I'm not Jewish, but part of my mother's family still is (long story) and I lived in an area with a large Jewish population.
  24. OneBoyOneGirl

    OneBoyOneGirl Well-Known Member

    :lol: What it is that again? I'm so not following this post. And I totally forgot about the candy cane blood thing, that one always make me cringe.
  25. twin_trip_mommy

    twin_trip_mommy Well-Known Member

    I'm sure you'll get a few points for your post and maybe even a suggestion of getting a flower.

    Yes I have that verse in my signature. But just because I have it it does not mean I cannot share things that I see on the news and ask people opinions. I know how I celebrate Christmas and why. I have read the root meaning of the candy cane and know what it could mean for me my family but that does NOT mean that that is how others see the candy cane. I know how my family celebrates Christmas but that does not mean others see and celebrate the holiday the same way. To me Christmas is NOT Santa, candy canes or stockings even if their origins are from Christianity. To others Santa candy canes or stockings IS Christmas and to them has nothing to do with Christ.
  26. OneBoyOneGirl

    OneBoyOneGirl Well-Known Member

    Well, thats kind of rude Cheryl. We dont go passing out pansies willy-nilly, and maybe you understood something I didnt but I think she was saying you were'nt Christian enough. Maybe you need a bigger fish.
    5 people like this.
  27. rubyturquoise

    rubyturquoise Well-Known Member

    The schools probably have to avoid the more secularized elements of Christmas because they absolutely do have to avoid preaching to the students (I mean "preaching" in a literal way, such as teaching the Christmas Story). It becomes hard to disentangle it all.

    I personally would like my children to be exposed to all the various winter holiday traditions, but that's a lot for the schools to take on. However, I am probably in the minority on that. There is a vocal minority where I live that would be outraged if the children were going to learn about Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc, traditions in school.

    And given a choice between having my kids exposed to all the traditions (withOUT being told that any particular tradition is the "true" one), or having my kids only exposed to the Christian story as if it is the only source of the holiday, I'd rather have the former. But given a choice between only Christian and nothing, I'd rather have nothing.
  28. caba

    caba Banned

    Hmmm, the true meaning of the holiday? Jesus, no? Isn't he the reason for the season?
  29. twinbears

    twinbears Well-Known Member

  30. sharongl

    sharongl Well-Known Member

    Thank you for this post, because I could have written the exact same thing!

    BTW, as Jon's room mom, for the holiday party, we are doing "winter holidays around the world". We are having 4 stations, one for Christmas, one for Hanukah, one for Kwanza, and the last for Chinese New Year. At each station they will make a craft that has something to do with each celebration, and they will get a "passport" to "travel" the world with. Why did we decide to do this? Because last year Jonathan came home with a craft from his party that was a chalkboard with "---days until Christmas" painted on it. Most wouldn't think twice about that, but it definitely bothered me!

    Oh yes, and I am not scarred from never getting to sit on Santa's lap or gather Easter eggs. :)
  31. Millie&twins

    Millie&twins Well-Known Member

    While I found blueclouds post very funny indeed I do not usually like people telling other people they barely know that they are uneducated or giving points for it (and def. not pansies). It doesn't mean I don't see her point (I mean Cheryl, I understand you asking for opinions it was just the way you worded it... seemed like you really did not know about some stuff that was just a quick googlesearch away .Three clicks and a few words typed out and you would have known that Santa stands for Saint Nicolas and therefore is associated with religion, which I think you knew).

    Now, I never really knew about the candy cane, we don't do CC in the UK I guess (or maye I am out of the loop) but Santa is obviously associated with religion. I personally think they should teach the kids to understand about Santa, Hanukkah, etc... (since they don't I am teaching my children by doing Hanukkah this year instead of christmas... or chrismukkah...).
    I know in the US they like to go overboard with political correctness and I think it is a wee bit ridiculous really.
    When I was living in Germany everyone celebrated Saint Martin who gave half his cape to the freezing poor man on the street. Everyone (mainly young children up to maybe age 9 or 10) makes a lantern and walks the street and it is a lovely festivity. Now there are tons of turkish muslim families in Germany and still instead of hiding the fact that there is something to celebrate (out of respect), they just ask them along and so they all walk, those who believe in saints and those who don't, because you do not have to believe in something to find it wonderful (I don't believe in fairies and still I love them!) and to join in.
    I am nto christian and I like christmas and celebrate it, I am not jewish but I will celebrate Hanukkah, I am not hindu but we always celebrate Dewali, I am not muslim but we break the fast with muslims... because hiding behind a blank is not going to make the celebrations go away, sharing them and making people understand about them will make those who do not share certain believes be able to rejoice with those who do have that belief.

    So I think the school should not hide Santa but should also embrace all other religions instead. Because otherwise our children will grow up just knwoing what we teach them at home instead of being well rounded human beings.
    3 people like this.
  32. mom23sweetgirlies

    mom23sweetgirlies Well-Known Member

    I am a Christian, so obviously I celebrate Christmas and teach my kids what it means to US. But I agree with you and I think it is only fair that if the schools are going to celebrate Christmas than they should celebrate them all or at least discuss them all. If not than it is only fair not to celebrate anything at all, although I think that is sad.

    Obviously as a Christian I want my kids to grow up to continue to believe the things we are teaching them, but I think it is also important that they know there are other religions/beliefs out there and that not everybody believes what we do and that is OKAY! I would hate for my kids to grow up to be judgmental, religious extremists that try to force their beliefs down peoples throats. I don't believe that is what GOD intended for us Christians to do and it is not helpful at all. Not saying anyone here does that but I have met people like this and even for me being a Christian already it is a big turn off.
    6 people like this.
  33. rrodman

    rrodman Well-Known Member

    Easter and Christmas are Christian, religious holidays. Yes, non-Christians do sometimes celebrate Christmas (I think a lot of the AAAers do), but people of other religions - Judaism, Islam, Hinduism - generally do not (with some exceptions that have been discussed). But it's silly to say that Santa and candy canes are not associated with a religious holiday. Of course they are!

    I love your school celebration. That is absolutely perfect. And it lets kids learn the beauty of all the holidays.
  34. akameme

    akameme Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    Say what? As a Jew and someone who was raised very conservative/observant, I'm very saddened to hear what your friend is saying. Christmas, Santa and stocking had NO PLACE in our house. I realize Santa isn't a religious figure, but Christmas is NOT a jewish holiday.

    IMHO, comments like this are harmful to the Jewish identity and observance. I haven't read the other posts, so I'll have to see if Sharon chimed in.
  35. akameme

    akameme Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    thanks to both of you, particularly mom2es...I feel just as you did. To add to my previous post, I did sing in Christmas pageants, etc - however that was "public" in the privacy of our own home, other than Christmas episodes of TV shows or visiting my friends who did celebrate, Christmas wasn't a part of our life.

    I think I need to do a spin-off about inter-marriage, assimilation and political correctness, just don't know if I have the time to devote to it!
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