What do you think of this letter from DDs teacher?

Discussion in 'General' started by Overachiever, Sep 5, 2007.

  1. kma13

    kma13 Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(trouble squared @ Sep 6 2007, 06:46 PM) [snapback]395665[/snapback]
    I think it is terrible. I know I would flip. What bothers me, as it has been stated numerous times, is that the teacher's job is to educate the children in his class not the parents. There are more effective ways to open a dialogue between a parent and a teacher than that offensive email. Also, this arrogant *** is a high school teacher with probably only a BS/BA. I would react differently had this email originated from a Harvard PHD professor....but then again, I think a person with a higher education would know to treat people with more respect. I also like how his schedule is so busy that email is the best way to contact him?!

    Most teachers have earned a Master's degree BTW and agree it is arrogant but his level of education may be quite high. I have a BS and MAT from and Ivy league college and it is insulting every time someone states that teachers are 'only' teachers.
     
  2. twoplustwo

    twoplustwo Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(~rosie~ @ Sep 6 2007, 10:44 AM) [snapback]395554[/snapback]
    I have, however reconsidered my opinion. I agree with the post quoted. Look at how many of us cannot form a response using proper grammar, capitalization, spelling and usage. I've even noticed glaring errors made by the teachers among us.

    I have concluded that this guy is a very good teacher. Why? Because he is "demanding" the same from the parents as he is of his students. Why should he accept less from adults than he does from 13 year olds? Frankly, I am appalled at the lack of proper communication skills I see everywhere. On this message board and a few others I frequent, I see horrible mistakes in every thread. Mistakes that any graduate of sixth grade shouldn't be making. This teacher has illustrated that he won't stand for that. Not from his students and not from their parents. He expects everyone to put thought and effort into their assignments.


    It is very assumptive to think that just because their child is in 8th grade that the parent went to 8th grade. He is very ignorant to think that. Those of us who did get a good and proper education ar truely blessed. THere are so many people in this country that are not nearly so lucky. I also must agree that just because one may not form a gramatically correct sentence in the english language does not have any relevance to parenting.

    I also think that critiquing someone's typing skills in a forum is much differntly from knowing what someone's education level. I have my masters degree but don't type that well. I also don't have the time to always check my posts. I hope that you can get past my human error and understand my time constraints as a parent and can still understand the point of my post.

    It is terribly rude to say he won't stand for a parent who doesn't meet his standards. Who is he to say that just because a parent may not know correct grammer they don't have something important and valuable to say. If he is willing to treat the parent's of his students like this imagine how he treats his students!! What if my dd is unable to grasp a concept he is teaching, is he going to look down his elitist nose at her and treat her differently?
     
  3. kdoleva

    kdoleva Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(kma13 @ Sep 6 2007, 02:51 PM) [snapback]395683[/snapback]
    Most teachers have earned a Master's degree BTW and agree it is arrogant but his level of education may be quite high. I have a BS and MAT from and Ivy league college and it is insulting every time someone states that teachers are 'only' teachers.



    I understand that the majority of high school teachers go back to get their Masters. I did have that in my post and deleted it. However, a Masters can be wrapped up in one additional year on top of a BS/BA, and is usually a night program. Most teachers I know say it's a joke and get it at the closest institution to their house with no interest in securing the best program. The motivation to get their Masters is to qualify for the raise that accompanies it and not to further their education. I apologize if you proceeded differently with your Masters.
     
  4. twoplustwo

    twoplustwo Well-Known Member

    I really don't care what degree you have, no one has a right to talk to others that way!
     
  5. kdoleva

    kdoleva Well-Known Member

    Also, I never intended to insult any teachers... well, just one that ***. Teachers are very important. I apologize for any confusion.
     
  6. Cristina

    Cristina Well-Known Member

    Respect can come from someone with only an eighth grade education or with a PhD from Harvard. Character comes from within.
     
  7. MamaKimberlee

    MamaKimberlee Well-Known Member

    I would assume he was being funny!
    (Then again, I often assume this and find out people are serious) But I get less worked up at peope that way. I'd rather be oblivious than mad :huh:
     
  8. JandCsMom

    JandCsMom Well-Known Member

    If I were that guy's principal, I'd want to know that he sent an inappropriate email to his students' parents. If I were you, I'd set up a meeting with the principal and have a talk with him or her. That way, the teacher wouldn't have to know it was you who complained (although I'm betting there will be more than one parent with a negative response to the email). It could be that the administration may have had other problems with this teacher and is compiling incidents so he can be fired. Or, maybe he's a really great teacher and just misfired on this email. In that event, it would be good to get any issues out in the open so he can try again....
     
  9. berebunch31

    berebunch31 Well-Known Member

    Even if the teacher does have high expectations for his students' achievment, it is inappropriate to address parents in this manner. Schools strive for partnership with parents, not to subjugate them. The tone here borders on unprofessional, and his principal should be aware that this communication was sent out by one of his teachers. If, as some have suggested, this could be a joke, it's not funny, and the teacher should be much more careful in his future attempts at humor.

    Sorry for the "acct" reference earlier - I didn't realize :)
     
  10. Her Royal Jennyness

    Her Royal Jennyness Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(Cristina @ Sep 6 2007, 11:50 AM) [snapback]395565[/snapback]
    I was an English teacher in the public schools and am now an adjunct professor, and I would NEVER send anything like that to parents. The tone, and as an English teacher he knows all about tone, was terribly insulting. It is great he is trying to get to know the students, yet his job is to teach them how to write and get their point across the best way possible, something he obviously failed to do himself. I would be very annoyed to say the least if I received such a note.

    I have to ditto the idea of second language learners. What about students who have parents who struggle with English? Some might have parents with learning disabilities that struggle writing down their thoughts and ideas. Is he planning on making assumptions regarding the children if their parent struggles mailing something back that meets his standards.? You are no longer a student, and should not be spoken to as such. If your answers do not satisfy him, so be it. To email you again and ask you to be more concise is rude and condescending. I understand not wanting to make waves, but my gut would want me to march into his classroom and ask for some kind of explanation regarding his tone in the email. I would have serious reservations regarding his classroom management this year.

    All this to say, I agree with you! :)

    I have to agree here. My DH is dyslexic. (100% of the reason he never posts on TS) His writing and grammar skills are hideous! He would be terribly embarrassed to have that "assignment". He would feel lesser than what he really is. If David was judged on Mike's writing skills then that would be unfair and sad.
     
  11. LLA

    LLA Well-Known Member

    I think that the assignment was in poor taste. It would have really bothered me to the point that I would have considered not answering it. However more important to me, I would wonder how he was treating my child in class and would be worried that he would be talking down to my child. I really do not think that teachers need to talk down to their students (does not make for a good learning environment).

    What does your daughter think of him as a teacher? Does he have a reputation for being difficult to deal with?
     
  12. hudsonfour

    hudsonfour Well-Known Member

    The teacher had a bad choice of wording on this assignment. The parents should be treated with respect as a partner, not a student.


    QUOTE
    understand that the majority of high school teachers go back to get their Masters. I did have that in my post and deleted it. However, a Masters can be wrapped up in one additional year on top of a BS/BA, and is usually a night program. Most teachers I know say it's a joke and get it at the closest institution to their house with no interest in securing the best program. The motivation to get their Masters is to qualify for the raise that accompanies it and not to further their education. I apologize if you proceeded differently with your Masters.


    Off subject, but my Masters took 3 years (partime 4 classes a year) and was from a great university. For my 3 years in school, working on my Masters degree it would take me 5 years after graduation before I got any return on my money. Most teachers I know were motivated to to earn an advanced degree to further their own educatation, not their paycheck.
     
  13. kma13

    kma13 Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(trouble squared @ Sep 6 2007, 07:03 PM) [snapback]395718[/snapback]
    I understand that the majority of high school teachers go back to get their Masters. I did have that in my post and deleted it. However, a Masters can be wrapped up in one additional year on top of a BS/BA, and is usually a night program. Most teachers I know say it's a joke and get it at the closest institution to their house with no interest in securing the best program. The motivation to get their Masters is to qualify for the raise that accompanies it and not to further their education. I apologize if you proceeded differently with your Masters.

    Thank you for that apology. FYI all in NY must have a Masters degree in order to teach, and there is no pay incentive I pad for my Master's and will be paying for the next 10 years and my salary is pathetically low.


    Back on topic, the more I think about it the more I think you should contact the principal, mine would lose his mind if he say that assignment.
     
  14. Saiynee

    Saiynee Well-Known Member

    I am in agreement with the PPs that the last two lines are inappropriate. I have recieved many notes from parents that are not even close to perfectly written, but I would never have the audacity to point out their mistakes. It is not my job to judge them on their education, but to educate their children. The teacher has the right idea, but is going about it the wrong way. You can't form a partnership with parents if the first thing you do could easily humiliate them. As other's have pointed out, the parent's language may be something other than english, they could have a learning disability or even be deaf (I know one woman who cannot form proper sentences, she leaves out a lot of prepositions and such).

    I feel I have a pretty good knowlege of grammar and spelling, but I make mistakes in my posts all the time. I have a tendancy of not spell checking before I post, and for some reason I often hit two keys at once. I have my Master's degree obtained at a very good university (yes, my classes were taken at night and over the summer, but it still took me 2 years). I also have an AS degree as well. My brother who has taken only a couple college classes here and there, is a genious. School doesn't make the man (or woman).
     
  15. Oneplus2more

    Oneplus2more Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(~rosie~ @ Sep 6 2007, 05:44 PM) [snapback]395554[/snapback]
    I have, however reconsidered my opinion. I agree with the post quoted. Look at how many of us cannot form a response using proper grammar, capitalization, spelling and usage. I've even noticed glaring errors made by the teachers among us.

    I have concluded that this guy is a very good teacher. Why? Because he is "demanding" the same from the parents as he is of his students. Why should he accept less from adults than he does from 13 year olds? Frankly, I am appalled at the lack of proper communication skills I see everywhere. On this message board and a few others I frequent, I see horrible mistakes in every thread. Mistakes that any graduate of sixth grade shouldn't be making. This teacher has illustrated that he won't stand for that. Not from his students and not from their parents. He expects everyone to put thought and effort into their assignments.


    Seriously? Posting on TS & emailing my DD's teachers are on a completely differently level...I often post one-handed, in a hurry, or with a squirmy/eating/whiny kid or two on my lap or hanging off of me...

    He isn't teaching the parents. He doesn't have any right to "not accept" responses that are not grammatically correct & ask a parent to correct their work!! :icon_eek: I wonder if *unacceptable* responses will be held against the kids??

    I also would bring this to the attention of the administration. My dad was a HS principal - I think he would want to know about this.

    Sara - Do you know any of the other parents that this would have went to? What do they have to say about it? Please let us know the outcome :p
     
  16. TwinsItIs

    TwinsItIs Well-Known Member

    I was thinking about this as well. Did you contact other parents to hear what they have to say?
     
  17. Overachiever

    Overachiever Well-Known Member

    Here's what I sent 5 minutes ago to the teacher:
    ********************************
    Mr. Elstone,

    You need to know that Trinady is one of your younger students. She skipped the 2nd grade due to overlapping school schedules between the US and Japan, where we lived for 2 years.

    My hope for this school year, in regards to your class, is that Trinady will continue to be challenged. She has a tendency to become bored quickly. I hope that Accelerated English 9 will truly be accelerated in the choice of material and the pace of the class.

    Some ways in which we can work together to ensure student success are providing my student with clear deadlines and giving frequent progress updates.

    I have to let you know that I was fairly taken aback by the tone of your “assignment,” in particular the last 2 points. While I certainly appreciate you giving clear instructions, I felt it was condescending in the least to indicate that a response which is dissatisfactory due to grammar, spelling, or content will be judged and returned.

    I have taught English as a Second Language and tutored for many brilliant adults who could not have typed out this assignment to your specifications, and I wonder if you considered this when sending out the flyer. I hope you will rethink future such messages sent home to adults, who are your peers.

    My daughter mentioned that you have a great sense of humor. Maybe this didn’t come across well. I apologize if that was the case, or if I misunderstood the flyer in some other way.

    I truly do applaud your efforts to stimulate parent involvement. If there is anything we can do to help you have a successful school year, please feel free to contact myself or my husband via telephone or email. I look forward to meeting you during parent/teacher conferences. Thank you.

    *********************************************
    What do you think? I'll update you if/when I receive a response from the teacher.Thank you all so much for your insights. You have brought up so many wonderful points and good ways to approach the situation. I really took into consideration everyone's view, and my husband and I discussed this six ways from Sunday. Thanks again.

    Isn't TS the greatest? Where else can I consult with 70 friends, from all walks of life, with so many different experiences and in so many parts of the world?
     
  18. Cristina

    Cristina Well-Known Member

    Sounds great!! Let us know what happened!
     
  19. Susanna+3

    Susanna+3 Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(trouble squared @ Sep 6 2007, 07:03 PM) [snapback]395718[/snapback]
    I understand that the majority of high school teachers go back to get their Masters. I did have that in my post and deleted it. However, a Masters can be wrapped up in one additional year on top of a BS/BA, and is usually a night program. Most teachers I know say it's a joke and get it at the closest institution to their house with no interest in securing the best program. The motivation to get their Masters is to qualify for the raise that accompanies it and not to further their education. I apologize if you proceeded differently with your Masters.


    Gee... I wish I would have known about that master's program..my standard 36 credit Master's degree took 3 years part time...and that was a fast schedule... ummm...and the main motivation for teachers getting the masters is because most state certification now require teachers to get 30 or 33 post graduate credits for permanent certification...just shy of a master's degree...you'd have to be an idiot not to get the extra 3 or 6 credits and just get the master's.... And as far as the raise...most school districts don't offer a whole lot more for that degree... maybe $5,000...not all that significant compared to what I could have been making in the business world. I just think your statement here is not accurate... I for one researched my master's and intentionally avoided a program which I felt would not do a whole lot to complement my teaching skills...a "just going through the motions" degree. But don't be fooled...even the joke programs are still master's programs... intense enough especially while you are working full time and probably using up much of your spare time doing freebie school related work. Part of the problem with this has nothing to do with what the teachers would like to select, but rather with the part time programs offered in their area..there just aren't a whole lot of quality programs you can take part time. And let's face it, most of us can't afford to stop working for a few years to get a masters...
     
  20. Susanna+3

    Susanna+3 Well-Known Member

    P.S. Sara by the way, I thought your response was great!
     
  21. niftywriter

    niftywriter Well-Known Member

    Sara, I thought your response was great.

    My first thought was that this was a very poor attempt at a joke. It probably will turn out to be that he was joking, but the fact is that most people would not read the "humor" into that email. As a PP said, email is a notoriously "flat" form of communication and humor doesn't travel well overland! :laughing:
     
  22. Renald99

    Renald99 Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(trouble squared @ Sep 6 2007, 06:46 PM) [snapback]395665[/snapback]
    I think it is terrible. I know I would flip. What bothers me, as it has been stated numerous times, is that the teacher's job is to educate the children in his class not the parents. There are more effective ways to open a dialogue between a parent and a teacher than that offensive email. Also, this arrogant *** is a high school teacher with probably only a BS/BA. I would react differently had this email originated from a Harvard PHD professor....but then again, I think a person with a higher education would know to treat people with more respect. I also like how his schedule is so busy that email is the best way to contact him?!


    I don't think there is anything wrong with only having a BS/BA. I have only gone so far as my BA and I'm very proud of that. My generation is the first ever in my father's family to attain a college education. My mother is only a high school teacher, and has been one for 25 years now. Helping kids, particularly those with learning disabilities, graduate from high school is important to her. IMHO she's changed more lives with her 2 yrs of college education (she's a paraprofessional) than I have with my BA. I'm really proud of what she does, the huge smiles of her students on graduation day & the giant hugs from teary eyed parents who never thought their kid would graduate have made me so.

    For the professor comment...you realize that sometimes they can be arrogant ***'s as well, right? (Not saying all profs are, just that education doesn't determine a persons tact.)

    Education, or lack thereof, doesn't determine the type of person one is on the inside.
     
  23. HeyThere

    HeyThere Well-Known Member

    That was a great response!!!
     
  24. Erykah

    Erykah Well-Known Member

    Sara;
    I loved your response which gave the teacher an "out" regarding his humour not translating well. I look forward to his response!
     
  25. kdoleva

    kdoleva Well-Known Member

    Once again I apologize for any confusion. I seriously hope that everyone understands I am not equating good character to a degree!!!! Good character and common respect have nothing to do with what pieces of papers hang on your wall. I believe it has to do with how you are raised! I didn't think I needed to clarify that point, but so many people have posted and brought it up in a response to me.

    I was fired up by the email from the *** teacher and I perhaps I didn't communicate my point as clearly as I could have.

    Again, I am sorry if I insulted any teachers. When I spoke about the Masters, it was only my personal experience from friends in this area who have pursued them.
     
  26. BaaRamEwe

    BaaRamEwe Well-Known Member

    I think your response was great. Let us know how he takes it.
     
  27. twoplustwo

    twoplustwo Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(Overachiever @ Sep 7 2007, 07:36 AM) [snapback]396978[/snapback]
    Here's what I sent 5 minutes ago to the teacher:
    ********************************
    Mr. Elstone,

    You need to know that Trinady is one of your younger students. She skipped the 2nd grade due to overlapping school schedules between the US and Japan, where we lived for 2 years.

    My hope for this school year, in regards to your class, is that Trinady will continue to be challenged. She has a tendency to become bored quickly. I hope that Accelerated English 9 will truly be accelerated in the choice of material and the pace of the class.

    Some ways in which we can work together to ensure student success are providing my student with clear deadlines and giving frequent progress updates.

    I have to let you know that I was fairly taken aback by the tone of your “assignment,” in particular the last 2 points. While I certainly appreciate you giving clear instructions, I felt it was condescending in the least to indicate that a response which is dissatisfactory due to grammar, spelling, or content will be judged and returned.

    I have taught English as a Second Language and tutored for many brilliant adults who could not have typed out this assignment to your specifications, and I wonder if you considered this when sending out the flyer. I hope you will rethink future such messages sent home to adults, who are your peers.

    My daughter mentioned that you have a great sense of humor. Maybe this didn’t come across well. I apologize if that was the case, or if I misunderstood the flyer in some other way.

    I truly do applaud your efforts to stimulate parent involvement. If there is anything we can do to help you have a successful school year, please feel free to contact myself or my husband via telephone or email. I look forward to meeting you during parent/teacher conferences. Thank you.

    *********************************************
    What do you think? I'll update you if/when I receive a response from the teacher.Thank you all so much for your insights. You have brought up so many wonderful points and good ways to approach the situation. I really took into consideration everyone's view, and my husband and I discussed this six ways from Sunday. Thanks again.

    Isn't TS the greatest? Where else can I consult with 70 friends, from all walks of life, with so many different experiences and in so many parts of the world?


    :bow2: :bow2:

    Your response is wonderful!!! You were a lot more diplomatic than i would have been. I don't think I could have resisted saying something like, And if you correspond like that to me again......... :angry:
     
  28. summerfun

    summerfun Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    Great response back. I'll be interested to see if he comments back to you.

    QUOTE
    I understand that the majority of high school teachers go back to get their Masters. I did have that in my post and deleted it. However, a Masters can be wrapped up in one additional year on top of a BS/BA, and is usually a night program. Most teachers I know say it's a joke and get it at the closest institution to their house with no interest in securing the best program. The motivation to get their Masters is to qualify for the raise that accompanies it and not to further their education. I apologize if you proceeded differently with your Masters.


    All teachers in Maryland now need to have their Master's Degree, or equivalent to be considered "highly qualified" for No Child Left Behind. It took me 3 years of going to school at night, after teaching all day, to get my Master's. While yes the pay raise is nice, a Master's is necessary now to continue teaching.
     
  29. mandylouwho

    mandylouwho Well-Known Member

    In the words of the great Guiness Commercials...

    BRILLIANT!!! (Did I spell that right? :rotflmbo: )
     
  30. Fay

    Fay Well-Known Member

    Great response! I can't wait to hear if there are any updates :)
     
  31. sharon_with_j_and_n

    sharon_with_j_and_n Well-Known Member

    When I read this, I took the last two lines as totally tongue in cheek. Some people have a dry sense of humour (myself included). Just because the teacher didn't use LOL, or a laughing face doesn't mean it was not sent in fun. I would establish that before sending your e-mail. It would really get things off to a bad start if you wrote this response and the last 2 points were intended as a joke to parents.

    Edited to fix spelling and grammar errors :rotflmbo:
     
  32. SilvrHeart

    SilvrHeart Well-Known Member

    Great response, Sara - much more diplomatic than I probably would have been!
     
  33. berebunch31

    berebunch31 Well-Known Member

    I think your response was very well worded. You let him know that it was not a very well-received assignment, and you gave him ways to improve on it in the future without belittling or antagonizing him. Instead, you maintained that you were willing to work cooperatively with him to help your child succeed. I loved it!
     
  34. billandginastwins1

    billandginastwins1 Well-Known Member

    I have just read through all of these posts. Your response was great!!! I can't wait to hear how the teacher responds back to you. I would have been a little upset if I would've received this sort of letter home from a teacher. If he is trying to make a joke...it was not in a successful way!!!

    I have sent many emails and letters every year to DD's teachers. Many people want better for their children than they had for themselves. Just because they don't have email, or don't use proper grammar, doesn't mean they are bad parents and the home environment is horrible. There are many loving parents out there that may not speak proper grammar, but they want their children to learn the right way.

    A letter like this can end up making people feel bad that they aren't the greatest writers or speakers, or that they don't have enough money to have a computer in the home. It could have been worded much better, instead of making parents feel that a teacher is talking down to them.

    P.S. I may not always have the correct spelling or grammar when using TS either...but that is also because I am in a hurry and trying to type quick responses.
     
  35. Saiynee

    Saiynee Well-Known Member

    Great response! I can't wait to hear what he replies back.
     
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