What do you think about awards programs at school?

At my school (K-5) , we are constantly tweaking them.

Most of the grades try to give at least one certificate to every child.

Kindergarten has stopped doing an end-of-year assembly altogether. The last couple of years, they just took half an hour or so and rotated thru the all-purpose room by class, had a small program, then next class came in. This year, they are having "Star Day" in their rooms. No parents are invited. The teachers made crowns for each child and then attached a star for notable achievements. Cute, no tears that I've heard of, simple. But would you be disappointed as a parent to not be included?

Also, how do you recognize achievement without hurting someone's feelings? (Remembering that we're talking about children 5 - 11, not high school). Do you de-value the "most improved in math" award by also giving "best rester" award?

Just looking for ideas and thoughts...

 

I noticed in our school that they are trying to exclude parents from lots of things lately. For safety?

I think ALL kids should get the same. The very same. At that age I just don't think it is fair to recognize one child and not the other!
When we had our ceremony I was HOPING that no teacher makes a bigger deal over Nicholas (he's gifted) than any other child. That hurts MY feeling. :mellow:
But they didn't and I was so happy to see that every child was treated the same way. Like you said, it's not high school.

 

I don't know what Marc's school does, but Jon's school does a preschool graduation. There every preschooler gets a certificate, presented by the superintendent. They are all cute and are based on quirks of that kid--like one kid got the "roving reporter"--I forget Jon's from last year. Then all the "graduates" get a "diploma". I can tell you about Marc's after tomorrow.

I think for the K-3 kids, if someone gets something, everyone should. But for over 4th grade, it isn't necessary for every kid to get something, and it is fine to recognize a few kids. The thing with that is that you have to be consistant and only give the same awards each year.

 

QUOTE(sharongl @ May 22 2007, 09:16 PM) [snapback]265253[/snapback]
I think for the K-3 kids, if someone gets something, everyone should. But for over 4th grade, it isn't necessary for every kid to get something, and it is fine to recognize a few kids. The thing with that is that you have to be consistant and only give the same awards each year.


This is exactly how I feel as well, though I think third graders can handle having only a few recognized, too.

Our K-6 school used to do awards for the very young grades, but they were too limited, and they now do older kids only, starting in third. They previously had only art, computer, library, and perfect attendance awards for the K-2. Thus the kindergartener who was very gifted at math got nothing (and left crying, saying "I didn't get a prize because I'm not good enough at anything").

The awards program is listed on the calendar/lunch menu, but not heavily publicized. I haven't attended one yet, but I might this year.

 

Our elementary school does not have an awards ceremony. Awards assemblies start here in middle school at 6th grade.

 

Well I got to experience our first awards program this morning. DD's teacher created a "best" award for each child. DD got most improved reader which is so true of her. I wasn't as impressed by the "best dressed" (I don't like vanity awards) awards but hey everyone got something. She did hand out the Honor Roll certificates as well and I kid you not only 2 kids didn't get it and DD was one of them. She struggled a lot in math all year and reading at the beginning so it wasn't a shock to us and she didn't seem to care she didn't get the slip of paper. The other little girl looked pretty upset her name wasn't called though. The teacher just said she would look into it to make sure it wasn't an error, but these were produced by the school so I doubt it was. I thought over all it was a nice way for the kids individual accomplishments/personality traits to be awarded.

 

For Pre-K and K, I agree everyone should get something.

But I disagree with everyone getting a certificate at school (or a trophy or medal, if it's sports) just for participating. Kids today are awarded even though they haven't really achieved anything, so they come to expect it. And I think it takes away from something that's really earned.

I remember in elementary school, there was an all-school assembly and kids got certificates for perfect attendance, special talents, etc. A select few were given out, and that's just how it was. I think kids are more likely to strive for perfect attendance, for example, if they know they will earn something special that others won't.

Last summer, Jackson took swimming lessons and received a certificate of completion. But so did everybody else. Not one parent knew if their kid actually passed the swimming level or not, because it looked like everybody got the same thing. We found out there was a slightly different wording if you didn't pass. I think it's a bigger incentive for the kids to want to earn that certificate by passing the class, and to keep trying for it, than to be handed a certificate and not understand if they passed or not. Jackson really thought he'd passed, even though he hadn't, because he got that paper.

Jackson has trophies for baseball and basketball, just for being in the league and showing up. IMO, that makes them meaningless. (When you were a kid, did you have a trophy or know anyone who did? I sure didn't! It was a major deal to have earned a trophy.) Two of his past teams earned medals by placing in the top 3 in tournaments, and those are much more special to him, because they represent above-and-beyond achievement.

When his current team wins a game, the coaches give game balls to one or two kids who made great plays or amazing hits. I think that type of special recognition is so important. Maybe Jackson will never get a game ball, and maybe he'll be disappointed by that. But if everybody got one, it wouldn't mean a thing, and there'd be no higher level of accomplishment to strive for.

 

QUOTE(jxnsmama @ May 28 2007, 06:50 AM) [snapback]270459[/snapback]
Last summer, Jackson took swimming lessons and received a certificate of completion. But so did everybody else. Not one parent knew if their kid actually passed the swimming level or not, because it looked like everybody got the same thing. We found out there was a slightly different wording if you didn't pass. I think it's a bigger incentive for the kids to want to earn that certificate by passing the class, and to keep trying for it, than to be handed a certificate and not understand if they passed or not. Jackson really thought he'd passed, even though he hadn't, because he got that paper.


Amy, the boys' camp does something similar. But, if you completed the level, you got a buisness card size card listing that you completed it, with all the skill that you had passed. If you didn't complete the level, you got a 8 1/2" x 11" paper certificate of participation.

 

QUOTE
For Pre-K and K, I agree everyone should get something.

But I disagree with everyone getting a certificate at school (or a trophy or medal, if it's sports) just for participating. Kids today are awarded even though they haven't really achieved anything, so they come to expect it. And I think it takes away from something that's really earned.


QUOTE
When his current team wins a game, the coaches give game balls to one or two kids who made great plays or amazing hits. I think that type of special recognition is so important. Maybe Jackson will never get a game ball, and maybe he'll be disappointed by that. But if everybody got one, it wouldn't mean a thing, and there'd be no higher level of accomplishment to strive for.


I really agree with Amy on this issue. I disagree with meaningless "Good job breathing, darling!" praise.

YOu know, I tend to think we are all misled a bit on the whole self-esteem question...and I think this avalanche of meaningless recognition awards is a symptom of this. I actually disagree quite strongly with the accepted notion that self-esteem must be built into children (and the awful corrollary: if we don't do all sorts of things to build positive self-esteem, children will not devleop it). It has been my observation that virtually every person I have ever met has had high self-esteem. They might be angry at the world, they may be sad or depressed, they may have all sorts of things going on, but low self-esteem is not one of htem./ I think human beings are hard-wired to think they are the most important beings on the planet, and the pop psychology which has sucked most of us into a guilt trip about this is simply wrong.

Furthermore, I really do believe that yearly showers of totally meaningless awards are actually undermining children's naturally high self-esteem. Or at the very least, it confuses them (they know darn well when they have performed well, and when they have not; when their work was truly remarkable, and when it was a half-hearted effort). I think awarding mediocre work with gushing "god job!!" s and medals just builds cynicism in children at worst, and confusion about their real talents and abilities at the most usual.

I would hope that when my kids win an award they can really celebrate and know that it really means something...they work very hard at various sports and arts and academic subjects; when they win prizes they deserve to win them and they are proud of themselves. My kids don't have a problem when they don't win...they just redouble their efforts or switch to a new interest (once it has become obvious to them that the area being pursued is not their forte).

 

QUOTE(Nifty @ May 28 2007, 07:00 PM) [snapback]270871[/snapback]
I really agree with Amy on this issue. I disagree with meaningless "Good job breathing, darling!" praise....

Furthermore, I really do believe that yearly showers of totally meaningless awards are actually undermining children's naturally high self-esteem. Or at the very least, it confuses them (they know darn well when they have performed well, and when they have not; when their work was truly remarkable, and when it was a half-hearted effort). I think awarding mediocre work with gushing "god job!!" s and medals just builds cynicism in children at worst, and confusion about their real talents and abilities at the most usual.


I agree with this, too, but I do think there is an age -- e.g. preschool/kindergarten/first grade -- where singling out individual kids can be too harsh for those who aren't singled out. I also disagree that the younger kids necessarily recognize the worthlessness of the awards. Older kids? Certainly. But not all 5-year-olds.

Back to the example of our school, the awards ceremony featured prizes for computer, art, and library, but none for traditional academic subjects. This meant that the kindergartener whose drawings were already showing dimension and perspective received a well-deserved certificate, but the kindergarteners who were already doing division, and the ones who were delving into chapter books, received nothing. None of those kids, incidentally, realized that what they were doing was unusual for kindergarten. Somehow I just think that at that age, it's better not to single ANY kids out.

The following day, at kindergarten graduation, they did do a certificate for every child, and I still recall the utter joy on the face of one of the students in the class (happened also to be the oldest child, as his birthday is shortly after the cut-off) when he received recognition for being the first to volunteer for absolutely everything and anything.

By second grade, the kids seemed to be at the jaded phase. But not in kindergarten.

Personally, I'd nominate "perfect attendance" for the most meaningless reward. Are we rewarding great immune systems? Or parents who send their kids to school even when they're sick?

 

QUOTE(BGTwins97 @ May 29 2007, 11:35 AM) [snapback]271265[/snapback]
Personally, I'd nominate "perfect attendance" for the most meaningless reward. Are we rewarding great immune systems? Or parents who send their kids to school even when they're sick?

I'm with you on that! And you also have the kids who are such a handful that you imagine their parents send them to school no matter what, just so they won't have to be cooped up with them all day!

The bad thing is, especially with NCLB, schools are graded on overall attendance, on subgroup attendance, and on what they've done to improve attendance. We're in a bind with this one. None of us want the sick kids here, either, but we're penalized if they stay home.

 

QUOTE(BGTwins97 @ May 29 2007, 07:35 AM) [snapback]271265[/snapback]
Personally, I'd nominate "perfect attendance" for the most meaningless reward. Are we rewarding great immune systems? Or parents who send their kids to school even when they're sick?



QUOTE(PumpkinPies @ May 29 2007, 08:56 AM) [snapback]271318[/snapback]
I'm with you on that! And you also have the kids who are such a handful that you imagine their parents send them to school no matter what, just so they won't have to be cooped up with them all day!


I take EXTREME exception to that! :huh: Sean got a special award at middle school for perfect attendance for all three years. He has not missed a day of school since 5th grade. He has perfect attendance now for his first two years of high school also. He does NOT go to school sick, and yes, he does have a great immune system!! Why shouldn't he be recognized for this? Do you know how few kids actually have perfect attendance for any length of time? Do you know there are actually scholarships awarded to kids based on perfect attendance? It's something to be PROUD of and I absolutely believe these kids should be recognized!! Sorry -- that just hit a hot button with me as a mother of children who more often than not do have perfect attendance. This year Sean and Brian both had perfect attendance. Craig missed one day in September when he broke his finger. IMO, that is a huge accomplishment. I would NEVER send my children to school if they were sick. In fact, Sean's pedi joked with him because one year in middle school he had strep throat over Sping Break so he still did not miss any school -- the pedi said, "Now THAT'S a dedicated student!!"

Getting back to the main topic, I am surprised at how many elementary schools have awards assemblies. I have never heard of it until middle school here. At the middle school level, I think it's fine to reward outstanding students. I'm not sure if I agree with the awards assemblies at the younger ages but I supposed by 3rd, 4th and 5th, the students could handle it.

 

QUOTE(MamaKim @ May 29 2007, 09:12 AM) [snapback]271340[/snapback]
I take EXTREME exception to that!


Sorry. I didn't mean to offend. But I stand by my statement. Would your son have been less deserving of a prize if he had gotten strep throat the previous week? Is it really worth recognizing kids whose illnesses fall during vacations, or whose parents send them to school whether they're sick or not? imho, it's not.

 

You might feel differently if it were your child being recognized. All I know is that he was mighty proud to walk across that stage at the end of 8th grade to receive his award. And, imo, he should have been. I would never belittle someone else's child's accomplishment as not worthy of recognition. It's nothing short of amazing that he was able to attend school every single day without illness, injury or whatever other situation may have come up during that time. His teachers and the administration at his school certainly thought it was an accomplishment. FWIW, he also received recognition for high honors and was nominated for the Bruin award for excellence, but he was no less proud of his Perfect Attendance plaque than he was of his other two most esteemed awards.

If his receiving recognition for this accomplishment bothers you, than this will really burn you up. We met a young man once who received a full four year scholarship to college for having had perfect attendance for his entire twelve years of school. If this is achieved legitimately (child not attending school if sick), then IMO it is a huge deal and should be recognized just as any other milestone or achievement.

 

QUOTE(MamaKim @ May 29 2007, 03:51 PM) [snapback]271994[/snapback]
You might feel differently if it were your child being recognized.


Nope. I didn't feel differently at all. I thought it was silly then, and I still think it's silly now, and so do my kids. They have both won prizes that are meaningful to them and that they worked hard for and in which there was hard work and dedication, but no luck involved, but they both agree that perfect attendance prizes are absurd. The wisdom of 9-year-olds.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

This award was extremely meaningful to Sean. I'm insulted that anyone would belittle it this way. And it takes quite a lot to get this type of reaction out of me. Yep, pretty wise 9 year olds to belittle someone else's achievement. It takes a bit more than luck to achieve perfect attendance. It also takes dedication.

 

QUOTE(BGTwins97 @ May 29 2007, 11:35 AM) [snapback]271265[/snapback]
Personally, I'd nominate "perfect attendance" for the most meaningless reward. Are we rewarding great immune systems? Or parents who send their kids to school even when they're sick?


As someone who had perfect or near perfect attendance (I think I missed 5 days total the whole time) from K-12, I take exception as well. I never once got an award per se, just my name mentioned at an assembly. To me it was rewarding perserverance, not my immune system. It gave me motivation to go on the days I didn't really want to (teenagers ). I think as educators they were trying to give an incentive for kids to be at school as obviously the kids education depends, in part, on the amount of time they are in the classroom.

Oh & my mother never sent me to school if I was sick. In fact, the days I did miss were because she made me stay home (my strep didn't show up on a vacation week :lol: )

 

QUOTE(MamaKim @ May 29 2007, 08:05 PM) [snapback]272014[/snapback]
This award was extremely meaningful to Sean. I'm insulted that anyone would belittle it this way. And it takes quite a lot to get this type of reaction out of me. Yep, pretty wise 9 year olds to belittle someone else's achievement. It takes a bit more than luck to achieve perfect attendance. It also takes dedication.


:good: :Clap: Kim, I applaud him! :Clap: :good:

 

I have to agree with Kim here. I find that there are way too many parents willing to pull their kids out of school to go on vacation to Disney, etc. simply because it is more convienient than going during break. If a child has the perserverence to show up every day--they deserve recognition for it.

Kim, congratulations to Sean. BTW, my kids already seem to have that super immune system--I swear it is from the french fries they ate off the floor at McDonalds before I could stop them--when they were toddlers.

 

QUOTE(Renald99 @ May 29 2007, 04:20 PM) [snapback]272031[/snapback]
To me it was rewarding perserverance, not my immune system. It gave me motivation to go on the days I didn't really want to (teenagers ). I think as educators they were trying to give an incentive for kids to be at school as obviously the kids education depends, in part, on the amount of time they are in the classroom.
Exactly!! There have been a few times over the years that Sean could have stayed home (one in particular was just last month when the high school band returned after midnight from a concert they performed here at the Tennessee Theater) but he chose to attend school the next day when several of his friends opted out because they were tired. Sean just has a drive to be there. And I cannot fault him for that. He's dedicated and just like his father.


QUOTE(Renald99 @ May 29 2007, 04:23 PM) [snapback]272039[/snapback]
:good: :Clap: Kim, I applaud him! :Clap: :good:
Thank you. I appreciate that.

 

QUOTE(MamaKim @ May 29 2007, 04:05 PM) [snapback]272014[/snapback]
This award was extremely meaningful to Sean. I'm insulted that anyone would belittle it this way. And it takes quite a lot to get this type of reaction out of me. Yep, pretty wise 9 year olds to belittle someone else's achievement. It takes a bit more than luck to achieve perfect attendance. It also takes dedication.


Can you explain to me in what way my 9-year-olds aren't dedicated if they say "I'm fine to go to school, Mom", and I say "No, you were vomiting just three hours ago; it's not fair to the other kids or to your teacher."

I could see this being meaningful for older students -- high school or college -- who might be in control of their own attendance, but younger kids simply aren't. DD went to school one year on the day that DS had surgery scheduled, which happened to be a school day. Even then -- as an early primary student -- she knew that this was something over which he had no control (and commented on it). The hospital calls, assigns you a date and time, and you take it. Period. This particular surgeon only gets operating room time one day per week. You take what you get.

Go ahead and make a big deal of it if you choose to, but personally, I'm glad my kids value the prizes they get for a year's worth of straight A's, or for good sportsmanship, over the prizes they get because they were sick over Christmas instead of in mid-January.

 

QUOTE(sharongl @ May 29 2007, 04:31 PM) [snapback]272057[/snapback]
I have to agree with Kim here. I find that there are way too many parents willing to pull their kids out of school to go on vacation to Disney, etc. simply because it is more convienient than going during break. If a child has the perserverence to show up every day--they deserve recognition for it.
I have one friend with two boys the same ages as my boys who does this routinely. Or lets her youngest son stay home "because he didn't feel like" attending that day. Her oldest is more like Sean and wants to be there every day.

QUOTE
Kim, congratulations to Sean. BTW, my kids already seem to have that super immune system--I swear it is from the french fries they ate off the floor at McDonalds before I could stop them--when they were toddlers.
Thanks, Sharon!! My kids have the good immune systems from eating dirt as toddlers.

 

QUOTE(BGTwins97 @ May 29 2007, 04:35 PM) [snapback]272064[/snapback]
Can you explain to me in what way my 9-year-olds aren't dedicated if they say "I'm fine to go to school, Mom", and I say "No, you were vomiting just three hours ago; it's not fair to the other kids or to your teacher."

I could see this being meaningful for older students -- high school or college -- who might be in control of their own attendance, but younger kids simply aren't. DD went to school one year on the day that DS had surgery scheduled, which happened to be a school day. Even then -- as an early primary student -- she knew that this was something over which he had no control. The hospital calls, assigns you a date and time, and you take it. Period. This particular surgeon only gets operating room time one day per week. You take what you get.

Go ahead and make a big deal of it if you choose to, but personally, I'm glad my kids value the prizes they get for a year's worth of straight A's, or for good sportsmanship, over the prizes they get because they were sick over Christmas instead of in mid-January.

No one said your children are NOT dedicated if they want to be at school but cannot because they are sick. If Sean was ill and could not attend school, I would be the first one preventing him from walking out the door. They cannot attend if they are ill. I completely understand that.

I AM talking about an older student. Sean will be 17 in a month. He won his Perfect Attendance plaque in middle school at age 14 and was the ONLY child in the entire 8th grade to earn one for Perfect Attendance all three years of middle school. And as I pointed out, Sean has more than his share of academic accomplishments as well. He is a First Honors student taking all honors and AP courses at the high school. He has plenty to be proud of yet he still thinks the Perfect Attendance award is a nice honor as well.

 

I teach Kindergarten and we will be having an awards ceremony coming up. Each trimester, we honor kids that have 1) learned to tie their shoes, 2) name all upper and lower case letters out of order, 3) name all letter sounds, 4) count to 100 and 5) write 1-100. Occasionally, we will add in extra awards for improvement, citizenship, or other special achievement.

Each assembly, we have kids that do not get awards. But we also share with parent the award criteria from day one. Sometimes the kids are sad, but other times, they just know that they will have to work to earn it the next time around. I guess as a teacher, I need to be a little more understanding to some of the different perspectives out there, as it sounds like many would be uncomfortable with a system such as ours.

As a parent though, I kind of tend to agree with Renee:

QUOTE
Furthermore, I really do believe that yearly showers of totally meaningless awards are actually undermining children's naturally high self-esteem. Or at the very least, it confuses them (they know darn well when they have performed well, and when they have not; when their work was truly remarkable, and when it was a half-hearted effort). I think awarding mediocre work with gushing "god job!!" s and medals just builds cynicism in children at worst, and confusion about their real talents and abilities at the most usual.

I would hope that when my kids win an award they can really celebrate and know that it really means something...they work very hard at various sports and arts and academic subjects; when they win prizes they deserve to win them and they are proud of themselves. My kids don't have a problem when they don't win...they just redouble their efforts or switch to a new interest (once it has become obvious to them that the area being pursued is not their forte).

 

At the school where I work now they have a "stars assembly" every month. Each grade (K-8 we have about 275 kids in the school) has a few students honoured, they get a star sticker and their name goes on the star board with their accompleshment. Yes, everyone will get to be a star eventually though the year, some twice, but they are always quite proud when they come to me after stars day and excited to tell me why they got their star. Its frequently something special to them, today one of the boys got one for homework completion (which I helped with ) and other was for improved reading. Another was skipping 100 time without stop.

I got perfect attendance most years.

 

QUOTE
At the school where I work now they have a "stars assembly" every month. Each grade (K-8 we have about 275 kids in the school) has a few students honoured, they get a star sticker and their name goes on the star board with their accompleshment. Yes, everyone will get to be a star eventually though the year, some twice, but they are always quite proud when they come to me after stars day and excited to tell me why they got their star. Its frequently something special to them, today one of the boys got one for homework completion (which I helped with ) and other was for improved reading. Another was skipping 100 time without stop.


I don't have a problem with this sort of thing. I think it truly does link various skills with recognition and I am all for recognising non-traditional things like skipping, etc. That allows more scope for recognising kids with non-traditional skills and strengths and special needs, which I am all for!.

It's the giving of "participation" awards and trophies right across the board at the end of every sport season or school year to which I object (see Amy's note for details).

If a student has managed perfect attendance, I think it is worth acknowledging. Just because my kids have never earned one doesn't make me resent it. I think it is pretty neat to get through school and thanks to a combination of determination and good luck, have perfect attendance. I think it takes both, and is not just "dumb luck". Likewise the 3rd grader who skips a record number of skips...awards like this are partly for fun and partly to build school spirit and I think kids enjoy them.

Again, the key point for me is that, even these less formal "Stars" and awards are recognising something the kids have ACTUALLY achieved. That's not somehting I object to. It is the GOOD JOB! medals for simply showing up that I think could be problematic.

Kate, I can see that as a teacher you would like to be aware of the different points of view your student's parents may be bringing to the classroom, but I have to say, I think your awards method is completely appropriate. I wonder if some of the sadness some children feel is possibly a reflection of their parents' disappointment?
We all want to see our kids be recognised. Sometimes I am convinced that this whole thing matters much more to us than to our children!

 

This isn't perfect attendance for school, but before my grandmother died she received a 50th ANNUAL PERFECT ATTENDANCE AWARD at church. Can you imagine.....50 years of NEVER missing a single Sunday????? I don't care who you are...THAT is impressive.

Kim - I agree with you 100% and I have "sickly" children.

I also think all kids prior to 3rd grade should receive recognition. After that, you can earn it.

 

As a kid whose mom let me stay home periodically if I felt like it (as long as I maintained above-average grades and didn't have a test that day), I also applaud Sean's achievement!

However:

QUOTE
I find that there are way too many parents willing to pull their kids out of school to go on vacation to Disney, etc. simply because it is more convienient than going during break.


My parents pulled us out of school to go to Disney, and I will be doing the same with my kids this coming November. Frankly, none of us wanted to go when it is super hot and super crowded. For this once-in-a-lifetime extended family trip, we wanted a time that fit everyone's schedules and that hopefully would include a bit cooler weather and fewer people there. Plus, with my brother working for a beer distributor, time off in the summer is nearly impossible. I have already spoken to the principal about it, and while our district superintendant will consider those absences unexcused, the principal assured me she and the teachers will work with me to make sure Jackson can do his work ahead of time so he doesn't get behind. She said, and I totally agree, that family time is extremely important. If the kids are getting good grades and can easily keep up with or catch up to the rest of the class after the trip, I see nothing wrong with it.

 

Amy, I am sure it will be well worth pulling them out for a very memorable family trip like that. As long as they are still in elementary school, and you've talked to the principal, I think it's fine to do this. It's not like you make a habit out of it. I know some parents (one of Sean's friends in particular) who do pull their kids out several times per year for vacations, which I think then is sending a message that school is not a #1 priority. A once in a blue moon thing? Go for it! And honestly, get it in now. Once they are in high school, this is not an option. Sean's school has time for time so if they miss more than a certain number of days per class, that time has got to be made up. Not to mention, it's way too hard to catch up just to miss days if it isn't absolutely necessary. So enjoy the vacation and know you are still a great parent !!

 

I should probably just put up an arrow and say "What Amy said" and be done with it! :laughing:

Although I will happily send kudos to people to whom perfect attendance is both very important and they've managed to achieve it, I do not personally think it is good or bad thing. If nothing really important comes up in life during school years, then certainly, I think students should strive for perfect attendance. School is their work and it gives meaning and structure to their lives, as well as (obviously!) an education.

However, I do not believe that school is the only or even always the best place to receive all of one's education. In my opinion, opportunities sometimes arise in life when the child can receive a once in a lifetime educational benefit (whether in an academic area, such as history or geography or science, or in interpersonal relationships, such as in a large extended family trip like Amy's describing above). For me, in cases like this, being too strict about attendance doesn't make any sense and I prefer to be flexible in those situations. This is why my kids will probably never have perfect attendance, even though they are remarkably healthy kids. Between the rare sick days (each child has only had a few over the entire school career) and truly important events, such as incredible travel opportunities and very important family events (such as my father's surprise 70th birthday celebration the year before he died much too young). We keep time lost to a minimum (usually only one day tacked on to a weekend, finishing with a very late night return and they are always back at school the next morning, tired or not) though it would be more convenient to take a more leisurely route home. The point is the event or learning experience in question (such as my older kids learning to sail in the BVI over the past three Columbus Day weekends) and we don't pad it with a lot of extra time off. I book appointments that I can plan (like doctor and dentist appointments) during long holidays like summer and Christmas to further reduce time lost out of school and to provide some buffer for the spontaneous enrichment experiences which tend to crop up with little advance notice.

Our kids love school, and they love to learn and explore outside of school as well. I think we have a nice balance between very responsible school attendance (less than 3 days lost per year is our average including sickness) and leaving the door open to possiblities for learning adventures outside of their normal experience.

ETA to finish the last sentence!

 

Renée, I should just put an arrow to your post as I agree wholeheartedly. One family in particular at our elementary school took a memorable three week vacation to Japan to visit family and see the country. What a fantastic learning experience!! And even though the vacation was not considered an excused absence, our principal gave them the blessing and said what I would have said, "GO!!" (Sadly, in Knox county, this also meant they received a letter to appear before the truancy judge because our principal has no authority to grant an excused absence, which I think is absurd. If you miss more than five days unexcused -- unexcused includes "Mommy" notes, not dr's notes -- in a semester, you get the "letter" from the truancy court. After 10 days unexcused, you must appear before the truancy judge, which is just silly in a case like that, but whatever. That is a complete aside.) Anyway, if we ever had an opportunity to pull our kids out for a great vacation, I would do it in a heartbeat. But it would have to be really a humdinger of a vacation, because Sean would have to make up that time for time at the high school, which kind of stinks. And the time for time is for excused or unexcused absences. But you are right, some vacations offer just as much, if not more, of a learning experience for our kids.

For the record, I am NOT the one who is rigid about school attendance. That comes from within Sean himself. He is the one who does not want to miss any time, if he can help it. I guess that is why I am so proud of his attendance record, because it is self-motivated and determination on his part, not us pushing him. Plus it's a bit of fear, too, on his part., lol. He knows that if he misses two or less days per semester (our high school is on block scheduling so classes are one semester long), students get to drop their lowest test score per class, which is some pretty high incentive to be there every day, especially in some of those difficult AP and honors courses! :Clap:

 

Amy and Renee, I just want to be clear, like Kim, the once in a lifetime thing is one thing. The families that I am thinking of, have already taken their kids out of school at 2 separate times during this school year, to go to Disney. I have a friend who recently pulled her kids out for a week or so to go to Hawaii for a family vacation. Next year their son starts HS, so they felt this was their last opportunity to go--they are trainers at a horse show barn, so the only time they can get away is late winter. Does that make more sense?

 

Kim, that kind of motivation is truly commendable. I salute Sean. My kids usually lose frees after they miss that day in October...they have to make them Study Halls for a few weeks. They don't grumble about it though, considering it a pretty good trade. They use the time to catch up or move ahead (Jessie usually uses it to help the freshmen with yearbook pages, since she is almost always all caught up anyway). It sounds like the regulations in TN are quite a bit more stringent and punitive. But it sounds like Sean has the excellent work ethic anyway. Good for him!

Kim and Sharon, I knew you were both talking about in general terms and not the exceptional situations that Amy and I were referring to. I just thought it was a nice opportunity to put in a side note about what I consider to be very valuable extra enrichment. When we are lucky enough to be able to provide it to our kids (for us it comes through their Dad taking them with him to say Europe, on a business trip on a points ticket, and not a vacation (we've never scheduled a family vacation out of regular school break times). Our kids have been learning to sail on small catamarans since they were old enough to swim, every summer vacation and every possible opportunity. When they reached high school age and size, my husband was able to charter a full sized sailboat in the BVI (only able to do it because October is off season...otherwise the rates are astronomical and it's a no go), combined it with free airline tickets and took them as crew to really learn bare boat sailing in deep salt water. They are learning navigation (dead reckoning and celestial navigation...yes we have a compass, a sextant and all the rest of the necessary gear), geography and of course the actual sailing. Scott is a certified bare boat captain, so they take no other crew. He expects the kids to chart a course (using math and charting skills of course)and fully crew the boat and they really do sail it from island to island. They have learned how to do repairs, have explored the volcanic caves, taken underwater photography...in short, experiences which just cannot be replicated in any other way.

Whenever possible, we try to get this sort of thing in the summer break months (and so far, all of the trips with Dad (except the BVI sailing lessons) have been in summer...Jessie and Kiki have been to England, Wales, Germany and Ireland so far and with a little luck, they will go to France this year. But truthfully, if these business trips had occured in school terms, I would be sorely tempted to let htem go. He does usually go to Asia in the school months, but so far we've felt that those trips were too arduous to allow them to go during the school year (18 hours travel there and again coming back...over a weekend, even with one extra day, it's just too much). We are hoping that he will finally have a summer trip to Asia in the next year or so...but it isn't likely because of the heat there in the summer months (some of his plants go on restricted schedules at those times, so hardly the time for a visitor from the USA).

Anyway, I know that you weren't talking about every single person who takes some time out for truly special events...

And speaking of awards!! I have to get to school right now for the Awards ceremony. Maybe neither of my high schoolers will win any aawards (though I do believe Jessie is up for one), but I still like to go to applaud the kids who have excelled. HAve to rush...please excuse any typos! Can't fix until later!

 

QUOTE(PumpkinPies @ May 29 2007, 12:56 PM) [snapback]271318[/snapback]
I'm with you on that! And you also have the kids who are such a handful that you imagine their parents send them to school no matter what, just so they won't have to be cooped up with them all day!


I'm sorry this came across as so mean. I admire the parents who make a committment to their child's education by having them at school where they belong, in spite of other more attractive alternatives. I also think it's a good thing to recognize a child for making the more difficult choice (school instead of sleeping in, for instance).

My only defense is the kids I've helped the past couple of years who were at school in spite of serious ear infections (one is now wearing hearing aids), unset broken arm, throwing up (sent home, mom brought back in time for lunch!!!, where he threw up again) etc.

 

Marcia, that is completely unexcusable that a parent would send their child to school when they were ill or, God forbid, hurt! It never ceases to amaze me. Not that it's a defense in any way, but did any of these parents not have a child care alternative and needed to be at work or risk losing a job or something? I'm just wondering what prompts a parent to send a child to school under those conditions. Thanks for apologizing. I can understand where in your profession you have seen the gamut. I can assure you my children do not fall into the aforementioned categories.

I'm hoping Sean's dedication will carry through to work. He just started his first "real" job at Kroger last week! Can't call in sick to work unless you're really sick or risk losing your job! :lol:

Renée, yes, attendance laws at least in our county in TN have gotten quite stringent over the past few years. When Sean was in 5th grade and B&C in 1st, they amended the attendance laws (as indicated in my above post). I remember feeling like a criminal when I had to take them out of school for one day due to a planned trip. Sadly, we're all paying for the parents who do not feel sending their kids to school regularly is important and for the teens who skip. Sean was tardy one day this semester (he was at a Key Club meeting before school and did not allow himself enough time to walk to the outbuildings where his 1st period class was held). I was shocked later on that evening when we received a call from the school's automated voice system telling us Sean was either tardy or absent that day. They mean business. :blink: