Vaccination video

"A chickenpox vaccine was developed in Japan twenty-five years ago. It has since been given to over 2 million people, with a good track record of safety. A similar vaccine has been in use in the United States since the early 1980's."
http://www.drgreene.org/body.cfm?id=21&ref=510&action=detail

 

quote:
Originally posted by angie7:
The US gov't ALWAYS try to blame something else other then US vaccinated citizens. No proof exists of this claim.....
Oh, really? It sure seems to be documented well! I found tons of links on a Dr. Andrew Wakefield -- "In the UK, the vaccine was the subject of controversy after a 1998 paper by Dr. Andrew Wakefield, which claimed to have found a possible link between MMR and the onset of autism in children. Numerous peer-reviewed studies have since failed to show any correlation. Since its publication, this conclusion of the study has been retracted by ten of Wakefield's twelve co-authors, and his call for parents to boycott the vaccine in favor of single injections one year apart, has been heavily criticized, both on scientific grounds and for triggering a decline in vaccination rates."

Angie, I almost feel like you don't want to believe in herd immunity. Vaccination acts as a sort of "firebreak" in the spread of a disease, slowing or preventing further transmission of the disease to others. Although no vaccine offers 100% protection, the spread of disease from person to person is much higher in those who remain unvaccinated. Virologists have found that when a certain percentage of a population is vaccinated, the spread of the disease is effectively stopped. Do you not want to have to rely on those who are vaccinated to prevent the spread of disease? This critical percentage depends on the disease and the vaccine, but 90% is not uncommon. You know what will be scary? When the critical percentage goes down below 90% because of the increasing numbers who don't vaccinate. Disease outbreaks become more common. Have you actually seen whooping cough, measles and other epidemics?..... also TB and polio? The devastating effects of congenital rubella syndrome on the unborn child? You are young, and you probably cannot believe that it could ever again be as bad as it once was, because you have grown up in such a protected time.....

Regarding the Chicken Pox vaccine: As PP's have said, it wasn't available, in any form -mandatory or not - until 1995. I remember just hearing about it coming out "sometime in a few years," when my older boys were young, in the late 80's, early 90's.

ETA: I just saw your newest post on the Chicken Pox vaccine. Did you get it in Japan? And you got one of the very first ones?? Given your stance on this thread topic, what do you have to say about having had a brand-new untested/unproven (at the time) vaccine? (I assume it wasn't your choice.)

 

The vericella vaccine received FDA approval on March 17, 1995. That is a fact that cannot be disputed. Prior to FDA approval a VERY limited number of people (mainly those at high risk such as with AIDS or leukemia) received the vaccine, if you were one of those (especially in the early 80's) you probably did not receive the formula which has been found to be the most safe and effective.

I respect your choice not to vaccinate your children. I also respect your right to voice your opinion. What I do not respect is the fact that you have sited incorrect information on several occasions in this thread, and when presented with fact, you have thrown out a comment like quote:
Originally posted by angie7:
The US gov't ALWAYS try to blame something else other then US vaccinated citizens. No proof exists of this claim.....

.

I have a personal experience regarding an unvaccinated child. My sister chose not to vaccinate her children due to a reaction she had to one of the vaccines she received as a baby. In late Dec of '02 her youngest daughter got Chicken Pox. This same daughter was to be my flower girl on Jan 11th. My sister didn't "think" she would be contagious any longer and brought her to Florida. My fiance (now DH) had never had the Chicken Pox. He could have caught this disease. It may seem to be just another childhood disease to most, but when acquired by an adult male it can cause severe complications including sterility. Luckily, he didn't catch it. I, however had to be the bad guy and tell my neice she couldn't be in the wedding (or even be at the wedding) and had to ask my sister to take all of her kids to a hotel for the night and sent them back to Indiana the next day.

Please remember, your decision to NOT vaccinate your children is a personal one but it very well could effect others around you. Don't just read a book which is based on far fetched OPINION and present it as FACT and base a decision that will effect your children and others around them for the rest of their lives on it.

 

quote:
Originally posted by cwinslow7:
I respect your choice not to vaccinate your children. I also respect your right to voice your opinion. What I do not respect is the fact that you have sited incorrect information on several occasions in this thread.....
Likewise.
I do not expect to change your mind on any of this, Angie. You have made a choice, that is your right, and I respect it. But as this thread is on a public board, I have felt it necessary to provide perspective and true available facts, as best I can, for all our other members reading this.

 

Interesting discussion. A previous poster said:

quote:
I do vaccinate my children and am grateful to have that option.


Angie and others who don't choose to vaccinate, that is certainly your choice. My choice is to vaccinate, and I know how lucky I am to have that choice to protect my kids from these diseases. Until very recently, we lived and worked overseas in a developing country--one in which there are still regular outbreaks of polio, and which has one of the highest rates of avian flu deaths, among other things. I watched kids die all the time from what in the West would be termed "preventable disease", and could not imagine in a million years not making the choice to protect my children from these harms--which are still very much the reality in much of the world. Perhaps that's also because we will probably be spending a lot of our time overseas, where they would be potentially exposed to more of these diseases.

Sorry for the length, but all these posts just struck a chord with me, particularly after some painful experiences watching others suffer overseas.

Last thing: Angie, I have to take issue with part of your characterization of US govt interests vis a vis the vaccine issue. In my experience, our govt spends an enormous amount of money and other resources (certainly more than most developed nations) in other parts of the globe attempting to eradicate disease.

 

Regarding chicken pox. A version of a chicken pox vaccine was adminstered in the 1980's (refer to my last topic above, there is a link stating this) and I guess I did get one of the first ones, not my choice. Alot of people I know that are my age, have received this very same vaccine in the 80's. And to answer your question, I cant judge my mother back then for allowing me to get this shot b/c she thought it was best at the time. Since then, I have not had a single shot in over 15 years and never plan on having another one nor will my children ever get a shot.

I think we have all agreed to disagree but in the same breath, I have provided many facts that vaccines do pose a serious risk throughout this entire discussion. I think anyone reading this will have a lot of good reading with the links I posted if they chose too. My purpose in citing what I was saying, is the fact that this isnt an opinion based on one person saying that vaccines are not safe. There are many, many studies that prove vaccines are not safe.

Vaccinating your child is a personal decision. I do not think that anyone that does vaccinate is wrong for making that decision. But I do believe that before anyone vaccinates, they should research both sides of the spectrum fully and then make an educated decision. Most parents are not educated in the full aspect of vaccines. Many just "go with the flow" of what the gov't says is correct.

My children nor my choice pose a health risk for anyone. And I believe just by reading this 3 page thread, you can tell that I didnt just read one book and believe it. Furthermore, I havent cited anything incorrect. For every claim I have made, I have provided a link which states it or a study to prove what I said. An opinion is me on here making the claims that I have made without anything to back it up, fact is providing documented studies like I have.

 

quote:
Originally posted by angie7:
. Most parents are not educated in the full aspect of vaccines. Many just "go with the flow" of what the gov't says is correct.

.


Its not just the US Government, its our pediatricians...you know the ones with the medical degrees that vaccinate their children too. So we dont go in their blind, just because we dont go buy every single book against the vaccines. For every study that says they are bad, their is one proving how great they are too

 

Who do you think regulates what vaccines are given to children by our doctors...the gov't. Who do you think teaches these doctors that vaccines are saints and doesnt teach them the negatives of vaccines..the gov't.

 

The doctors are the ones with all the books, they dont just sit around saying "oh ok, govt says ok, lets not research it, we'll just do it". I give my ped, well all the peds, ALOT more credit than that.

I dont think the govt is "out to get us", that is why I chose to live in this country. No ones forcing me to live here and abide by the freedoms allowed here

 

quote:
I would never want to see my children go through one of these diseases that can be prevented or the affects lessened. Its a very personal decision.


Have you ever known anyone to get sick FROM the vaccine? Just a quesiton.

 

No I have not seen anyone get sick directly from the vaccine. I have though seen people get a much lesser form of an illness because they did have the vaccine. If you read the whole quote through...


quote:
Originally posted by Cassie05:
I do vaccinate my children and am grateful to have that option. One of my dear friends lost her daughter to pertussis, she was sadly too young to recieve the vaccination. You can read her story here Sabanna's story I would never want to see my children go through one of these diseases that can be prevented or the affects lessened. Its a very personal decision.



....you will see that I know someone who will never see their child alive again, who had to sit by and watch doctors try to open her airway, to watch her childs life ending before her eyes, and sorry but it doesnt get any worse than that.

Id much rather take the chance, even if they did find that it was the vaccines that caused autism (which BTW isnt it thought to be the thermerisol, which has been taken out of the vaccs, what some think causes it?) of having a child with autism then dead from pertussis like Sebanna

 

Angie, as difficult as I found it to believe that you got a Chicken Pox vaccine in the early '80's (when parents, including myself, were ten years later asking about it and told it didn't yet exist!!!), I understand there were human trials of the vaccine going on (note: human trials started coming to an end in 1987; vaccine submitted for FDA approval in Sept., 1989), so I suppose you were part of the trials. My question of, "What do you have to say about having had a brand-new untested/unproven (at the time) vaccine?," came across as judgmental towards your mother, which was harsh -- I did not mean it that way. Rather, did your being part of a vaccine trial affect your decision to not vaccinate your children? I hope that makes more sense.

I have to take issue with this:quote:
Originally posted by angie7:
Who do you think teaches these doctors that vaccines are saints and doesnt teach them the negatives of vaccines..the gov't.
Who teaches the doctors? The University medical schools (of course!). Cassie is right. The doctors and medical researchers are the ones who come up with the vaccines. Good grief, the government (what - the entity?) isn't a scientist -- where in the world did you get this thought?quote:
Who do you think regulates what vaccines are given to children by our doctors...the gov't.
The FDA gets involved when a vaccine is ready for approval, and it is a rigorous process! Sometimes it takes years to get approval, because things have to pass numerous tests and regulations, before something can be put out to the public. (And don't tell me otherwise, because I have seen this process, and I have seen things fail approval repeatedly, because they're not up to spec - i.e. Mary Poppins' "Nearly perfect in every way.") I have to add here (I know you already know this), even when the FDA approves a food or drug, they never make you take it. So, they regulate by approval, only..... not by telling doctors what to do, once the vaccine is approved. Is it so hard to believe our government is truly working to protect us, in this regard??

 

Dont have enough time to comment on the other things mentioned, but I do want to say that no, getting the chicken pox vaccine in the 80's had nothing to do with why my children are unvaccinated. That was a personal decision made for personal reasons.

 

quote:
Originally posted by 4kids4Cat:
I think it's a good idea to keep things in perspective --
Formaldehyde:
Found in shampoo, nail care, cosmetics, some toothpastes, and home construction materials such as carpet glue (do you let baby roam the floor?), plywood and particle boards.

Aluminum:
Found in antiperspirants, deodorants, some cosmetics, buffered aspirin, toothpastes, tooth whiteners, food storage containers, cookware, antacids, antiseptics, general purpose food additives, edible food coatings and food colorings.

Keep in mind, also, that many essential vitamins and minerals and other metabolites are toxic in large quantities (Sharon's post above a case in point). All things in moderation.


Yes, but aluminum in these forms is not being directly administered into tiny babies' systems.

 

quote:
Originally posted by kma13:
I just want to offer a perspective: The was a small outbreak of whooping cough among un-vax kids in the school I teach in...AND in several neighboring districts. I am not willing to risk my children's lives with exposure to deadly childhood illnesses.

Cathy is right (although in animal science we called it 'herd immunity') un-vax people are protected by the vax ones! These disease are not gone, they are just under control....


Did you know that in many instances the pertussis vaccine has actually CAUSED pertussis?

Herd immunity is bs, I will get to that in a minute...

 

quote:
Originally posted by Brockgirl:
I wonder if all of the kids who don't get vaccinated are home schooled as our school system will not allow unvac. children to attend.


There are exemptions in every state. Some have more/different exemptions than others.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Cassie05:
I do vaccinate my children and am grateful to have that option. One of my dear friends lost her daughter to pertussis, she was sadly too young to recieve the vaccination. You can read her story here Sabanna's story I would never want to see my children go through one of these diseases that can be prevented or the affects lessened. Its a very personal decision.


That is really awful about your friends daughter. I am truly sorry for that.

but, do you know how many infants/babies/children are damaged/killed by vaccines every year? I'm sure it might shock you.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Cassie05:
The doctors are the ones with all the books, they dont just sit around saying "oh ok, govt says ok, lets not research it, we'll just do it". I give my ped, well all the peds, ALOT more credit than that.

I dont think the govt is "out to get us", that is why I chose to live in this country. No ones forcing me to live here and abide by the freedoms allowed here


Obviously my old pedi didn't read up on her material, she wanted to inject my girls with 12 month shots at their 6 month appt. When we told her we weren't vaxxing she said to us "you might really want to think about it because of the measles going around...". Those are 12 month vaccines. It didn't even make sense.

There was also another time at the office where we walked in and the nurse assistant handed my DP a form and told him to "sign here". He almost did without even thinking until I intervened and told her to take it back. That was the sheet in which the pediatrician is supposed to go over with the parents BEFORE signing stating that if your child is damaged by a vaccine or killed by a vaccine they have their butt's covered. She didn't even tell us what is was for. I wonder how many parent's that happens to without them even knowing.

quote:
"Doctors Are The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US Causing 250,000 Deaths Every Year" Journal of the American Medical Association

"It is fairly well known that approximatley 10,000 people die each week in the United States from cancer. It is less well known that over 3,000 Americans die each week from FDA approved prescription medication prescribed appropriately and taken according to instructions. That is over four times as many people as died on September 11, 2001 each and every week."


Not all health professionals are on board with vaccines, contrary to popular belief. I know doctors and nurses alike who choose not to vaccinate.

Right after my daughters were born, my post partum came in our room and shut the door. She knew we were questioning whether or not to vaccinate, and she pleaded with us NOT to. The next day the pushy pediatrician came in and basically felt like we HAD to (not the case) so we did. That is one of my biggest regrets. Thank G*d my girls were not harmed by the hep.b vax, that is the only shot they have ever had.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Cassie05:
No I have not seen anyone get sick directly from the vaccine. I have though seen people get a much lesser form of an illness because they did have the vaccine. If you read the whole quote through...


quote:
Originally posted by Cassie05:
I do vaccinate my children and am grateful to have that option. One of my dear friends lost her daughter to pertussis, she was sadly too young to recieve the vaccination. You can read her story here Sabanna's story I would never want to see my children go through one of these diseases that can be prevented or the affects lessened. Its a very personal decision.



....you will see that I know someone who will never see their child alive again, who had to sit by and watch doctors try to open her airway, to watch her childs life ending before her eyes, and sorry but it doesnt get any worse than that.

Id much rather take the chance, even if they did find that it was the vaccines that caused autism (which BTW isnt it thought to be the thermerisol, which has been taken out of the vaccs, what some think causes it?) of having a child with autism then dead from pertussis like Sebanna

Mercury has not been taken out of all vaccinations.

I DO for a fact know of people who have had children seriously harmed and killed by routine childhood vaccines. It does happen.

The reasons why I choose not to vaccinate go so far beyond the autism scare.

I do not support the government using aborted fetal tissue to create the vaccines that are injected into babies.

"From 1983-1990 there has been a 423% increase in the number of measles cases. 80% of notified cases were vaccinated"

Vaccine Ingredients

Remember these are being directly administered into your tiny child's blood stream.

I HIGHLY suggest checking out the VAERS website. You can download vaccine injury/adverse reaction reports. Keep in mind only 10% of adverse reactions are reported to VAERS, most are written off as "normal reactions."

 

My goodness! This thread has been raised from quite a few pages back, I believe.

Since you have quoted me, I will quote what I wrote to Angie, almost a week ago: quote:
I do not expect to change your mind on any of this, (Angie). You have made a choice, that is your right, and I respect it. But as this thread is on a public board, I have felt it necessary to provide perspective and true available facts, as best I can, for all our other members reading this.
Same thought goes today. You have made your choice; I am not going to try to change your mind. I am not going to open and/or debate your links. I have already presented the science, as best I can and as I believe to be true. I am not going to try to teach you science (i.e. herd immunity); I could post mathematical equations, but no. I believe it. That's enough for me, and I have made my choice accordingly.

A note to all: Don't believe everything you read on the internet (and this can, of course, include the links I've posted, too). There's a lot of mis-info and unsubstantiated "data" out there. Ask. Learn. Understand. I only posted links I felt/believed were scientifically sound, based on my own knowledge and education, as a career scientist. You have to make your own choice.

My best to all!

 

quote:
"From 1983-1990 there has been a 423% increase in the number of measles cases. 80% of notified cases were vaccinated"


Follow this link one more step, and it says that all the deaths were attributed to toxic shock syndrome, but using non-sterile vials and needles NOT the vaccine. This is the link that is from the quoted statement in its original link...

 

quote:
Originally posted by sharongl:
quote:
"From 1983-1990 there has been a 423% increase in the number of measles cases. 80% of notified cases were vaccinated"


Follow this link one more step, and it says that all the deaths were attributed to toxic shock syndrome, but using non-sterile vials and needles NOT the vaccine. This is the link that is from the quoted statement in its original link...

I followed the link, the article about toxic shock is relating to a different set of reactions from a campaign in India, not in the U.S. which was what I was referring to...

 

quote:
From 1983-1990 there has been a 423% increase in the number of measles cases. The CDC puts out a weekly report. In their June 6th, 1986 publication they note that 80% of notified cases of measles had been vaccinated.
This is interesting. I remember back in 1986, when my husband and I were first thinking about starting a family, I heard about the measles problems and was concerned about my own immunity and any risks I might have while pregnant. I did a lot of research and went into my own vaccination records..... the bottom line was that two vaccinations were necessary to confer immunity, and at that point in time, many people had only had one (program policy of 1978). Not surprisingly, the outbreaks in the late '80's were in school-aged children (the "single-dosers"); not infants, toddlers and preschoolers.

These links confirm:
Link 1
Link 2

The thing that drives me crazy about many of these web sites people link is they may give true information but not ALL the information. They don't tell the whole story, because it defeats their point. Yes, I do believe that, "From 1983-1990 there has been a 423% increase in the number of measles cases," and, "80% of notified cases of measles had been vaccinated." But they neglect to say WHY the outbreaks occurred and that with the double doses of the vaccine, immunity increased and measles cases then dropped substantially.

The "rest of the story" is that the number of measles cases decreased significantly after 1992.quote:
Multiple barriers to timely vaccination of preschool-aged children were identified during investigation of the 1989-1991 measles resurgence. Efforts to increase vaccination coverage among preschool-aged children emphasized vaccination as close to the recommended age as possible. These efforts, coupled with ongoing implementation of the two-dose MMR recommendation, reduced reported measles cases from 2,237 in 1992 to 312 in 1993 (9). Although 963 measles cases were reported in 1994, measles incidence again declined in 1995, when 309 cases were reported (13). In 1996, 508 cases were reported, of which 65 were classified as international importations (14).

 

Today officials have confirmed that N. Korea has a major outbreak of measles and nearly 1,000 people,mostly children have died. Here is some further info about measles:

"Measles is a highly contagious viral disease spread by airborne droplets circulated by coughing and sneezing, according to the World Health Organization. It is a leading cause of death among young children, despite the availability of a safe and effective vaccine for the past 40 years.

Some 345,000 people, most of them children, died from measles in 2005, the latest year for which figures are available." WHO cited as source

 

Most of the 345,000 people are from 3rd world countries that do not have good sanitation or good nutrition which plays a HUGE role in spreading diseases.

 

And just imagine if those 345,000 people had been vaccinated against measles. Yes, death from "complications" will be higher in the third world countries, but if one does not get the disease, in the first place, the complications of the disease won't ensue.

Here is some exciting data showing that the global vaccination campaigns are saving lives:
From WHO:
"19 JANUARY 2007 | NEW YORK/GENEVA -- Measles deaths have fallen by 60% worldwide since 1999 – a major public health success. This exceeds the United Nations goal to halve measles deaths between 1999 and 2005...."
"....global measles deaths fell from an estimated 873,000 deaths in 1999 to 345,000 in 2005."

 

Wonderful! I dont like to see anyone die for any reason so it is great that they fell. But those numbers dont say anything about vaccination besides if they did say that "vaccination has caused the decline in measles" I would also like to see what changes were done to living conditions and also the medical community as far as technology, etc. Sanitation and nutrition play such an important role in spreading, contracting, and fighting off disease. If you dont have good nutrition like most countries that these numbers are coming from, they dont have the strength to fight the common cold off and will mostly die from it. Also sanitation plays a huge role, living in your own feces and other people feces, well thats just common sense that that isnt good and will cause disease and also immunity to go down.

Measles was already on a downward spiral before the vaccine was given, by 90% (see previous link posted a ways back). Most of the diseases vaccinated for today were also on the decline before the vaccine was invented and admistered. These diseases were going away on their own and we were creating natural immunity which is MUCH stronger then artificial immunity. Besides there are studies and research out there that suggests that vaccines dont protect you from many of the diseases vaccinated for and doesnt provide immunity, but that is to each your own.

 

Then how to you explain this article? The UK is NOT a 3rd world country. And the only explaination for the outbreak of more than double the cases from one year to the next is the lower vaccination rate due to the wrong info being given by that doctor.

 

quote:
Besides there are studies and research out there that suggests that vaccines dont protect you from many of the diseases vaccinated for and doesnt provide immunity, but that is to each your own.

I don't understand this statement, can you explain this to me or provide links to your research? This is a sincere question, I'm really confused by that!

 

Jenny,
Immunizations usually have 90-95 percent efficacy, so if everyone is properly immunized, 5-10 percent of the population still has a chance of contracting the disease. Furthermore, most immunization series are not completed until the second year of life.

Angie,
WHO and UNICEF estimate that the global average for routine measles immunization coverage between 1999 and 2005 increased from 71% to 77%. What changes were implemented? quote:
A strategy to reduce measles mortality, consisting of four components, has been key to ensuring the massive global decrease in measles deaths. The strategy calls for

* the provision of one dose of measles vaccine for all infants via routine health services;
* a second opportunity for measles immunization for all children, generally through mass vaccination campaigns;
* effective surveillance for measles; and
* enhanced care, including the provision of supplemental vitamin A.
Now, I suspect you'll argue mortality was reduced because of that last component, to the point of negating the "vaccine component" altogether. I already know there's no proving anything you don't want to believe, but for the sake of others reading this thread, the facts are presented.
quote:
Originally posted by angie7:
If you dont have good nutrition like most countries that these numbers are coming from, they dont have the strength to fight the common cold off and will mostly die from it.
Exactly, Angie!!! So, if you can vaccinate against something like measles, so these poor weakened malnourished immunocompromised children don't have to fight it and/or die from it, why say NO??!

In the United States, since the vaccine became available, there has been a 99% reduction in the incidence of measles. And that's not from improvements in sanitation and nutrition. So what is it, if it's not the vaccine? And what about the link Sharon posted? The UK is not a third-world country, either.

Did you know, according to the Texas Department of Health, school age children who are exempted from immunizations for religious or philosophical reasons are 35 times more likely to contract measles than vaccinated children? Why does it not make sense to support intense efforts eradicate the disease globally?

And do you really think that going to third-world countries and just improving their living conditions and health care will make measles go away? Sure, related deaths will decrease. Is it worth the health toll to those who have to suffer to become "naturally" immune? quote:
The most serious complications include blindness, encephalitis (a dangerous infection of the brain causing inflammation), severe diarrhea (possibly leading to dehydration), ear infections and severe respiratory infections such as pneumonia, which is the most common cause of death associated with measles. Encephalitis is estimated to occur in 1/1000 cases, while otitis media (middle ear infection) is reported in 5-15% of cases and pneumonia in 5-10% of cases. The case fatality rate in developing countries is generally in the range of 1 to 5%.
That's too much for me.