twins after twins!

It is very obvious that the OP only wants "supportive" answers so I won't post much but did want to comment that I completely agree with this - I am actually quite appalled that so many supposedly professional physicians are convincing people to transfer more embryos than babies that they can handle. Research indicates that single embryo transfers have virtually the same success rate as transferring 2 or 3, but like is said here - twins more often result from the transfer of two embryos verses one - duh. I don't really understand the poll that you would like to see, but if you are trying to say that the transfer of two embryos more often results in singleton pregnancies then that is true. But that doesn't change the fact that when you transfer two (especially with prior experience of conceiving twins via IVF) that it almost seems like it should be mandatory that you are prepared for twins again and that although a singleton is more likely, the chance is still there for two.

I am glad that you came to a decision and hope that it is the right one for you. I am sorry if I came across seeming harsh or judgemental. I think it stems from me, personally, having to sacrifice so much physically, emotionally and financially to do just one IVF cycle (that thankfully was successful) that it rubbed me wrong that you initially seemed ungrateful for a positive result, even if it was more positive than expected. Maybe I am just a bit jealous that you can be so laissez faire about spending the money to do repeated cycles in the first place :FIFblush: !

 

i want to clearify that I don't want ONLY supportive posts, it hurts to see judgmental posts, that's all. it is hard as is, and those who judge make it harder. I didn't do things carelessly( i'm pretty responsible human being), i really wanted positive results. Also I posted such personal and difficult story to see if anyone out there has experienced similar situation or has really some words of wisdom...
anyways, thank you all once again!!!!!!

 

i appreciate all of your replies

 

I just wanted to say that you have my support and I hope someone out there PM'd you about similar experience or feelings.

I don't think its fair for people to judge your decision to transfer more than one embryo nor is it fair to judge your thoughts on reduction. You shouldn't take those personally!!!! I think that it is courageous to admit that you may not be able to handle two more.

I also feel as if some people think you aren't taking this seriously. I mean really people who could consider reduction without thinking about the regrets etc...I am sure you have thought about it non stop!

I know you asked for advice and I think there was some that was good but more often then not I think people try to sway others by using feelings of guilt and thats not right either because we don't know your whole story nor should you have to explain yourself to us.

I too think you are a strong women for weighing all your options and I know things will work out for you no matter what you decide.

 

IVF is a different beast than conceiving spontaneously in many ways no doubt. In the grand scheme of things though, finding out that you are having more than one baby IVF or spontaneous can be a shock. A shock that to some that may be overwhelming. and yes, had she conceived spontaneously she would have had a choice. Some clinics do not give very high success rates and scare you into transferring more than one. We only had a 30% chance of getting pregnant with a FRESH cycle and infertility was NOT my problem, I had 3 kids already and had had my tubes tied.
Have you gone through IVF a second time after already having children? FET? FETs are a different beast than fresh cycle IVFs. They carry different success rates and if you have more than one they thaw more than one (with each thaw you may loose several). some die during the thaw - I had one very healthy 5 day old blast transferred June 5, 2009.
lost that baby at 6weeks. Just because 2 stick the first time means nothing for the second fresh cycle OR especially FET. There are NO guarantees, just the knowledge that if you transfer more than one your odds are higher that you may end up pregnant at all. The RE here in KC told me that this is not shocking to him that I lost the baby and he sees this a good bit with FETs. Yes there are success stories but if he tells me that it is a waste to transfer 1 darn tooten I will transfer 2 if 2 survive the thaw. had I done that last year I may have one 4 month old today. It is hard to say what any of us would do, how many we would transfer - given your odds, the clinic statistics, the # of embryos that survive the thaw, expenses (non of this is cheap) several other factors. It is all very, very personal.

my point is, to say that she transferred 2 she should have known is just not accurate.

 

You are right, every case is very personal and ther are MANY factors that go into play in IVF and FET. To answer your questions, yes I had a successful frsh IVF - transferred 2 and was pregnant with twins for 7 weeks. One "vanished" and I went on to have the remaining baby (my 2.5 dd) at 29 weeks. I am now 24 weeks with twins from a succesful FET at which we transferred 2. As I posted much earlier we were VERY frustrated with my clinic when we went in the day of the transfer and they had thawed 2. We only wanted to transfer 1 (only wanted them to thaw 1) and had several discussions with them about this. I was (still am ) terrified of carrying twins with my history of early delivery with my DD. But at that point (in our minds) we were posed with a moral dilemma... if we were to let one of those babies perish just so we could transfer 1 I would have felt horrible. We worked HARD to make each one of those embryos, and by God, one of them was not gonna die by MY choice. So I felt like God was saying, "Go ahead and transfer 2".

To address your other issue about me saying she shoulda known...I did not say that. I was inferring that one quite surely would know that there was a good chance (yes, even 25% is a "good chance")Just like any RE cannot gaurantee that 2 will take (or 3 or 4 or whatever) they cannot gaurentee that they WON'T. If an individual truly expresses her strong feelings to her RE of NOT wanting to carry twins/multiples, then the blame is on him. Especially if there was a difficult prior pregnancy , and you would hope that would have some weight with what the RE recommended to her.

Also, I did extensive research myself before both our fresh IVF and FET and FET's (in addition to talking with my RE). FET's are SLIGHTLY less successful giving such factors and quality of embies, uterine lining, etc...again every case is different, thus every individuals' "success rate" is different.

I would like to edit to say that I am not even referring to the OP anymore. SHe has made her decision to keep both her babies and needs not be hounded any more. This thread seems to have turned into some type of a debate on if selective reduction is morally sound if one does IVF/FET and knowingly transfers a certain amount of embryos.

 

I see what you are saying to an extent but 99% of reductions are done on women who went through some type of fertility treatment. People do not do fertility to have multiples, the hopeful ending is for a healthy baby. I see people who give up life savings just to have a baby, then whether it be twins or more, do have to make that choice. Not everyone who reduces regrets it. People assume that choosing not to reduce is always the best choice, unfortunately thats not always the case.

 

I agree here.

It is a VERY PERSONAL choice, that no one has the right to judge. Personally, I know what we would do since we had lots of discussion about it before we did IVF and DH, DR and I talked it out until we had answers we were all OK with. But that does not mean the choices I make/made are the ones everyone else would have to make/made. Or even if they would be the same choices I would make if I was in a different situation, but at that time given what we knew - DH and I made choices that worked for us.

IVF is so emotional on so many many different levels. 99% of the population has probably never even had to talk about the risks of carrying higher levels of multiples with your Dr. Personal history also comes into play- and that is different for everyone---some people are good candidates for twins or twins +, others are high risk for even a singleton.

Multiples also carry big risks to the mother (which I dont think anyone here has mentioned) are increased (the more babies the greater the risks)----MY health due to my unique personal situation was a large factor in how, why, and what we did for IVF and during the care of the pregnancy. Risky pregnancies are even riskier with multiples---there is a real chance of losing the entire pregnancy and/or long term health to the mother. Lots of the TV shows glorify multiples...but the risk of twins/higher than twins is there and can not be downplayed. Each family has to make choices with the information they have in that moment- be it how many to transfer for IVF or how many babies the mom can safely carry.


Supporting someone that is making a very difficult choice is not the same as agreeing with too. I think anyone faced with a choice like the OP needs support and to know that people are wishing her peace with her choices.

Support is merely showing that you care and wish them well.

 

And I see what you are saying. But we are not talking sextuplets here. Twins is much more managable than triplets and higher orders. They can threaten the life of the mother and unborn children. I am just against it if specific cases for convenience when perhaps the patient is not in danger and just decides they want 1 baby after tansferring 2.

Also, when doing fertility treatments it is pretty much well known that there are chances of carrying twins. And I don't believe that most patients go into it with the idea that "well, if there is more than 1 we can reduce". The RE needs to inform the patient and prepare them for it, and perhaps they may have transferrd one.

OP also expressed that she did not just want opinions that agreed and supported her considering a reduction. But all opinions.

To reiterate... I am not against selective reduction in ALL cases. Again carrying 2 babies is different that carrying 4, which might call for a reduction.

 

I guess twins to you may not be a risk...to some it is.

 

Of course it is.. any pregnancy is a risk. I am carrying 2 babies after delivering my singleton only to 29 weeks. So yes, I am scared. But to compare it to carrying 4, 6, 8 babies is just like comparing apples to oranges. And if you look back at some of OP posts, it seemed like the majority of her concern was if she could handle caring for 2 newborn/infant twins and/or bedrest while having the 2 older twins (which I realy do feel for her in that situation...talk about stressful!). If her peri/ob told her that carrying 2 babies would endanger her life or babies lives, then yes, selective redution I would agree with. But not just because it would be very hard work.

Edited to say...Ok, I think I am done here :ibiggrin: I get your point, however in this PARTICULAR SITUATION (or from what I know of it, I may not know ALL details) I just don't agree with redution. No hard feelings, OK?

 

I realize that the OP has already decided not to reduce but I just wanted to add that I commend her for expressing her fears and doubts about being able to handle a second set of twins despite the fact they she knew there would be those who judge her for even considering reduction.

I also wanted to say to the OP that those fears and doubts are perfectly normal - I'd even go so far as to say that it would be crazy NOT to be freaked out at the prospect of caring for two sets of multiples! That is what actually led me to this forum in the first place - to see if I could find out what it might be like to have two sets of multiples from others. I would like to get pregnant again in the next couple years but am terrified it might be twins again! We conceived fraternal twins spontaneously the first time and I know that my chances of conceiving twins again are good. So while I would love to have another baby, I am hesitant to try and get pregnant knowing that it could mean having twins again.

All that being said, while I am sure you can't imagine having two sets of twins I am almost positive you will be fine! Could you really even imagine having one set when you found out you were pregnant with twins the first time around? And was it as hard as you thought it would be? Surely the first few months will be an adjustment, as it would be even if you were just having one baby, but I am sure you will find your groove and do what needs to be done. Then you will have a hard time imagining your life without them.

I also thought you might be interested in reading this great blog I came across recently written by a SAHM of two sets of twins http://2setsoftwins-helene.blogspot.com/

And as another poster mentioned there are lots of ladies on this site that have more than one set of multiples who I am sure would be more than happy to share their experiences with you. Congratulations on your pregnancy and I wish you and your family all the best!

 

Congrats! I'm sorry I didn't read through the thread, but I know you can do it. I haven't had two sets but I have had 6 kids in 6 years and I made it. You will too!

 

Congrats!