Too Early for Cry It Out Method

Well, maybe I am just confused then (or a horrible parent).

He sleeps well at night, but anytime he cries during the night(which isn't much) we get up to check on him, and/or feed him. So I'm pretty sure I didn't come across as just letting him CIO during the night so we can get some sleep...at least that is not what I said.

Now...during the day, it's a different story. He is awake a lot of the time during the day. Probably why he sleeps so well during the evening.

The ONLY time he does not cry when he is placed in his crib is when he is "milk drunk" after a good ol feeding. Other than that...the minute he gets laid on his back, he is crying. He isn't hungry, isn't in pain, doesn't need burping...none of that. He has just been SO used to being held pretty much all the time he was awake while in the NICU. Like I said, this was confirmed to me by my NICU nurses...shyly of course.

I told them how he is at home and they were like..."Yeah...that's probably our fault...LOL".

He is held while I watch tv, while DW watched tv(when there is time), I walk around the house with him doing what chores I can, I play with him on his playmat for well over 30 minutes at a time when he is in the mood. He gets fed about every 3-3 1/2 hours (usually takes 30 minutes.

So...this kid is by far "negelected" and he has probably been held way more than any other kids that were born term and didn't spend months in the NICU, so it's not that he has not been coddeled.

It's just the simple fact that no matter how much he is held, played with, etc...if he is awake and you lay him down...he will cry. He will spit out his pacifier...CIO for a bit, then he is just calm, or asleep. He's not "worn out" form the 10 min or so of crying, he's just done with his fit. He doesn't like his swing or anything else. It's be held or nothing. I don't blame him. If I was nothing but held for 3 months all the time I was awake, I'd be upset also.

It's fun enough with him at home and we can't wait for his sister to be here as well, and if she is the same, I'm sorry...you can have your opinion, but it's really not feasible, or possible to expect me or my DW to hold them every minute they are awake if they cry the second they are placed in their crib.

Not sure about the whole "not be able to self-sooth", because I go in there and if he has a short bit of crying, his hands are right there, curled up close to his face.

You are right...techincally he is adjusted to 2 weeks, but according my my pediatrician...in a few months...he said we will be throwing that out the window. When he was adjusted to a week, he said he moves like an 8 week old. And 2 weeks adjusted doesn't mean he has only been loved and held for 2 weeks.

Don't get me wrong either. I am full aware of how important it is to reassure babies when they are young. And also...babies do cry to communicate. They just don't cry to cry...and when I lay him down on his back, he cries and it means..."NO...pick me back up".

But again...you are not in my shoes, nor aware of all the time and interaction spent with DS, but of course entitled to your opinion...I'm not offended by it.

I've have talked this over in length with my Mother, just to ensure(I'm no pro yet...now I AM a NICU Pro). She always advises me on things and her exp. with kids and infants pretty much trumps 99% of the posters on here.

 

Also...maybe I need to clarify...when I am saying I let him CIO at times and it is 10-15 min. I am not talking about screaming his head off, nor is it always that long...maybe it just seems like that to me.

It's more of a "wawwww, pick me up cry", a but of fussing, etc.

I NEVER let him CIO because I am not wanting to feed him, or hoping that if he has an issue that needs to be addressed will just go away if he gets tired from crying.

Maybe that is where some of the confusion was from, but I am pretty sure I was clear, but if not...

I was not saying I let DS CIO in the way most people think, or use the term. Meaning I do not let him CIO as a way to train him to sleep during the night, or omit one of his feedings. Maybe I should not have used CIO. Maybe I shouldn't have responded to this thread at all. LOL, but I do let him cry for a bit when I lay him down in his crib. Maybe some just picked out my comment of "I let him CIO..."(and read what age he was), and didn't read in what context I was using the term CIO.

But in all honestly...just explaining myself, I don't mind the opinions. I got plenty of my own from breastfeeding WAY too long, too old to still in diapers, DHs using work as an excuse for not helping at home, etc...

If we didn't have opinions...we would be robots

 

Pitbullz I think I understand what you are meaning, but I was wondering if you have tried other things to calm Merrick down?

I'm also wondering if he was in a bassinet the whole time he was in the NICU. It may not be that he wants to be held, so much as the crib is a MUCH larger space than the bassinet's, and it could be scary and lonely feeling to him.

Have you tried swaddling him tight (even if it takes 2 blankets), and maybe tucking some rolled up blankets (or using a sleep positioner) around him, to help him feel more secure? You can also lay him on one side of the crib and get a crib divider to put down the middle, turns the crib into a smaller enclosure, more similar to a bassinet.

Also the NICU is usually full of noise. I know they try to keep it quieter at night but that doesn't always work. So have you tried using white noise (like a fan or a radio set to static station)? How about some lullabies?

Another question is there are always lights on in the NICU, how dark is the room Merrick is in now? If it's too dark, he may be scared and perhaps a small nightlight would help. My son Liam is the first child I've had that's scared of the dark. We have used a small push on LED light on the nightstand beside the crib since shortly after we came home from the hospital, and as long as the light is on he's fine. We quit using it about a month ago and he started fighting bedtime, crying and clinging to us when we go in to try to sooth him. Turned the light back on, he sleeps like a champ again.




Anyways, to answer the OP, I would never use CIO on a child younger than about 6 months old to eliminate feedings. I did use a modified CIO on Rylee at about 4 months old just to get her to go to sleep at night. It took 2 nights to get her to go to sleep without being held.

For feedings I have always followed my babies cues. When they start not draining bottles, or sleeping an extra 30 mins before waking, I start "pushing" them a bit. As in, when they wake up, instead of jumping up and getting a bottle, I'll give them their paci back and see if they will settle down. If they sleep another 30 mins, great. If they won't settle down, I get a bottle for them. I'm just encouraging them to try to fall back to sleep without eating, but not forcing anything.

My oldest 2 kids slept 6-7 hrs at night at 6 and 8 wks. The twins were later at 12 weeks. But within a couple weeks of that initial 6-7 hrs, they were sleeping 10-11 hrs at night.

 

Yeah...I think my post was mistaken or misread because I commented on a post regarding CIO in regards to sleeping though the night. If I told my Mom Merricks cries at night and I just let him cry until he goes back to sleep I would be dis-owned...Ha.

You know...it's not all the time during the day he does it. He is just so wide awake during the day, that he knows when he is being put down after being held for a bit, fed, changed, whatever.

He has his moods. Sometimes a good swaddle works and others it wont.

A little background. We do have a sleep positioner and bunches of kidapottamus(sp) swaddlers. We have 2 large pack in plays in our room where he(and is sister will) only while they are on monitors. After gthe monitors come off, they will be placed in their Babi Italia Cribs with their Angel Care Monitors(more for my piece of mind...paranoid freak a bit).

He transitioned a lot in the NICU for his 99 days. He was the first one moved to the crib. A small bassinet type for just one baby until his sister joined him. He was used to being held ALL the time. We have been with the NICU for SOOOO long that we definately got a lil spoil treatment from a lot of the nurses as the kids grew on them as well. Plus bringing them food and breakfast for the whole NICU all the time probably didn't hurt either.

That is probably the best thing about him being in the NICU for so long...he doesn't need quiet. The pack and play does vibrate and play music, but we also have their infant swings in our room that play muisc.

We also use the light that comes with the sleep positioner and or the one for the pack and play.

He can home taking about 60-70ml. We kind of let him dictate his feeding. We have our Itzbeen set to alarm at 4 hours and he rarely wants his food before 3 1/2 hours and sometimes goes to 4 1/2, and even 5 hours during the night(he is GREAT at nighttime). We aren't worried too much bout stuffing food down him. He put on over 3 ounces in under 3 days when he was discharged and even put on weight after his hernia surgery. His doctor was just all smiles and thinks we are BSing him that Merrick was born at 24 weeks. He says he has never seen something like it. Another reason why he said he would be throwing out that adjusted age for him after a few months at the rate he was going. He wanted to see us ever week, but after his 2nd visit, he said every 2 weeks if that due to how good he was doing. We are definatley blessed in that regard.

He is already up to taking 100ml and took it in under 17min with just a level 1 nipple...I've used a level 2 a couple times, but will give him a few more days til I switch for good.

Maybe I made it seem worse that it was. I was just saying that I know when he is just being fussy and wants to be held, because that is what he has been used to for the past couple months, I let him lay in there and fuss, cry, whatever and he calms down. He doesn't necessarily sleep, but either goes to sleep or just lays there relaxed after leaving him for a bit. At first we went and always tried to pat him, give him his pacifier, etc, but the minute you walked away, held him for a second, he would fuss, spit out his pacifier, etc.

He is getting better...it's just a slow process.

I think some just read my post and saw...

"2 weeks adjusted, parent does CIO" and thought "OH MY!!!!"

But when my entire post is read, it doesn't mean or read like some think when they hear CIO.

Like I said...I pick my Mom's brain for many things. She has done Home Daycare for almost 30 years and had about 30 6 weekers and probably just that many at 8-12 weeks. She keeps me in line. But here...I come here for info on the twin aspect of things....and get some GOOD info

 

WOW!!!! 6 and 7 Hours?!?!?!

I'm utterly thrilled when he goes 5. What am I going to do with all that free time when they get to 7 hours??? Ha

Probably dishes and meals for the next day...oh wait...SLEEP!

 

Never did cry it out. Just found other ways to cope: co-sleeping, lots of coffee, and when they were old enough to understand lots of discussion

 

I think 2 months is way too young for CIO. We sort of did it, a couple times when they just would not go down, but it was when they were closer to a year old. I was blessed with good sleepers who were STTN around 5 months of age. And a great DH who did shifts with me so we always got a decent amount of sleep when they did not STTN.

 

Sean, I think I get where you are coming from right or wrong. Heck my boys were in the NICU just shy of 3 weeks, so I have nowhere near the NICU experience that you do. But we do share some of the same triumphs!

Wow, I find this crazy. They were born at 24 weeks right? Their age should be adjusted up until the age of 2. Movement and brain development are very different. You will find that they will do lots of things around their actual age range, but thinking you are gonna "throw adjusted age out the window in a few months" I think is misleading to you.

He may not need it, but soon it will be time to get him to a quiet place to help him sleep better. I mean, I can nap with the TV on, but it doesnt mean that I dont like it nice and dark and quiet too. We found that white noise, swaddles, sleep positioners, bouncy seats, and swings were our friends in the early weeks to help get them into a routine.

Actually that I how I read it and heard it. I dont think a 2 week old should be left for 10-15 minutes to self soothe in their crib. Again, my opinion. To me, even if they want to be held I would do it. He is 2 weeks. And even if you want to go with 4 months which you seemed to want to do with the "are they 4 months or 2 weeks" statement, it is still my opinion that you should help soothe him to sleep. Leave the sleep training for when he is older-closer to 6 months adjusted. But, he may never need it. I would also suggest the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Weisbluth. There is some great information in there. I found it really helpful with regards to having preemies too.

I just think that FY is seeing more and more CIO post at 6 weeks or so and to me I just dont understand the change. When you sign up to be a mom or dad (forget having twins) you have to know that you are going to be getting up all the time and learning how to help them to sleep or whatever. That is your job as a parent. Not to walk way and throw your (general "you") arms up in the air. It is that that is so frustrating to me.

 

Yes...24 weeks and you are 100% correct. 2 years is about the norm to drop the whole "adjusted age thing". Now again...this is not ME saying it, it was my Pediatrition saying this. His actual comment was..."I'm amazed...we will probably be throwing out this "adjusted age" thing out after a few months".

Now that was HIS opinion. Again...do not put my doctor's words into my mouth. I NEVER said I(ME, MEYSELF, ETC.) was going to throw it out the window. Of course that depends on MANY...MANY things. Growth, development, etc. I myself might have found this a bit odd(and again...we will just have to see), but all babies are different and if I have learned anything through Merrick's exp...nothing will amaze me with him. Of course I am not looking for extreme expectations for him, it's just that nothing would amaze me. This kid was born at 24 weeks with no preperation. Now you look at stats regarding that (just like stats in regards to how long kids keep the adjusted age), and one would think it was impossible to be where he is at now. He has ZERO medical issues. Not one. No lungs, heart, brain, eyes...nothing. That is one thing the doctor just couldn't believe with a child being born as young as him.

Easter Seals is coming to the house next week and we will be with them fully to track his growth and development. I will let the professionals decide where he is...not self-diagnose like some people who feel their kids just don't need Easter Seals, then wonder why their kid is 18 months old and still not walking(hmmmm? maybe you should not have pulled them out of Easter Seals). Nor is my doctor just a run of the mill pediatrition who just makes uneducated comments like that. With having over 3 months in the NICU, we picked every doctor, nurses brain on who is the absolute best baby doctor for our kids, no matter the location or if we would have to pay out of pocket...we didn't care. They ALL said this one doctor. We took Merrick there for his first visit and loved the guy. COme to find out he's been baby doc of the year a few years running. We got a pretty big city here, so lots of other baby docs he beat out. I'm glad we had the time to really search out and find a good one.

I wasn't saying it was great that he is used to noise, so that I can vaccumn, play the drums, etc while he is sleeping. It's just nice, because when he is asleep, the closing of a bathroom door, his itzbeen beeping and going off doesn't startle him from his slumber. He does have a quiet sleeping environment.

I have read a lot about the sleep training...what is referred to CIO. And yes...he is WAY too young for that, and I really doubt I will have to do that to get him to sleep through the night when the time comes. In fact NOWHERE in my post did I ever say I let him cry during the night without getting up, or checking up on him. I specifically said that during the day when he is AWAKE...not time for bed, he gets fussy when he is put back in his crib. I'm sure everyone knows as well that all babies are different. While you might say you would pick him up if he fusses when you put him down...that is easy outside looking in, but I can hold him for an hour or so, lay him down. If he is awake, he will fuss. You can pick him up 10 times and he quiets down, then the second I lay him back down, he fusses again(if he is awake).

Yeah...fully aware of parental responsibilites and how demanding they can be. And FYI, I never once "threw up my hands" with having to deal with him in the NICU for 99 days and his sister for 119 days so far. Making trips there every day, sometimes twice. In fact you will never see a negative comment or frustraions in any of my caringbridge posts. I attacked it with a strong mind, humor, etc...never frustration. Having him home is NOTHING comaparred to that. This is Child's Play. So I don't think I need a lesson on how as signing up for a parent the things I will have to deal with and can't just "throw my hands up", because that never happens. The second he makes a noise during the night I am up checking on him. Lucky for me I don't require hardly any sleep. I check to make sure he isn't dirty(he hates that), or has wiggles himself into some odd position.

But during the day when he is wide awake and I lay him down(I'm pretty sure none of you hold your children for the entire day...much less 2) and he fusses(just because he would rather be held) for a few minutes then calms down. Nope...nothing wrong with that, but of course that is my opinion. Let's hope I'm not horribly wrong and he turns into a Serial Killer because of it later on...Ha

 

Movement and brain development are very different. You will find that they will do lots of things around their actual age range.

And FYI...controlled movement and brain development really go a lot more hand in hand.

Now there ARE a lot more development issues than just movement, but to say they are very different??? Jerky uncontrolled movement...yes, but not specifically controlled ,movement. It takes a brain(developed) to be able to do that.

Well over a month before he was released if his pacifier fell out, he would search for it and could put it back in his mouth(not just my imgination...have it on video). 2 week olds do this? He just about rolled over the other day on his play mat. It was on a soft bed, so it might not have helped. Pretty sure the brain plays a part in cordination and he just didn't randomly twitch and start to turn over. 2 weks old turn over?

When they were just tiny and twitched their brian wasn't still wired completly...just shooting out sparks. That part I understood.

I'm pretty sure my doctor has had his share of preemies to deal with and has also seen his share of term babies that were 2 weeks old and older, so I kind of put a lil more faith in his thoughts and ideas versus just another twin parent.

Again...I am not a doctor, nor or you. So I'll let the professionals decide where he ranks. I'm in no place to questiona skilled professional just as much as you aren't qualified medically to say what is crazy(impossible) or not. Of course if you thought it was possible, you would not have found it crazy. I don't "find anything crazy" anymore. I think anything is possible. Not expected...but possible.

But again. If that is the case and he is 24 months, but has to still be adjusted to 20 months. I could care less. It's not a competition. I was meerly just passing on the thoughts of his doctor. Time will tell.

 

^^^ I said, "general you" meaning I am not directing it at you. It just seems to be a trend in general here in FY for CIO at a really early age and I was trailing that on the end of replying to you. That's all. Congrats that Marlee is due home soon.

 

Ah...I got ya. One thing about forums...sometimes difficult to read what the "written words" mean versus spoken.

I took it as "you" as in me. Thanks for clarifying.

Now again...I have no problem with agreeing to disagree. Now in regards to the 5 weeker having to CIO at night. I feel the is not a good thing. Will it have horrible damaging effects on the kids...maybe...maybe not.

We will see how Merrick does. Again...I have "normal" expectations...no matter what my doctor says. I DO have a good feeling based on his comments, but we shall see over time.

If I came on here and said "Merrick was born at 24 weeks and doctor just came in and said he'll go home with Zero issues".

Now I had A LOT of time on my hands just coming back from Iraq, not working that I buried my nose in anything and everything I could read. We weren't even sure the kids would survive, and I never once imagined he would have no issues whatsoever(his hernia is normal since those don't even close up until the last few weeks of gestation).

I knew what the stats were for 24 weekers and they went good. Much of the stuff I kept from Nat for obvious reasons. It was hard enough going into the unknown without overloading her on the "statistics".

Needless to say...not one single statistic applied to him(and we got lucky with Marlee only having a shunt due to her grade 3 and 4 bleed)

Yes...statistics show Adjusted Age go to about 24 months or so, but I have also read where parents on here have taken their child to their 6 month appt when their kid was 4 months adjusted and they have met and at times, well exceeded the milestones for a 6 monther.

Is it "crazy" for that to happen for Merrick? No...I don't think it is. Is it a "possibility"? Of course, but again...the professionals and time will determine that.