I've never seen a show about them and don't care too, but I wouldn't criticize them for choosing to have a large family. We don't live in China. They can have as many as they want to. If they can afford to have that many kids and feel like they can provide for them emotionally and physically, more power to them! I think large families (not 18, but 8, 10, 12 kids) used to be a lot more common than they are now. Our society isn't made for large families anymore, but people didn't eat out and do things away from home as much as we do now in the US. Also, not everyone who has a large family is a religious fanatic. My father was one of 13 children. They were never on any sort of public assistance and they all went to college (paid for by my grandparents). My grandfather started his own company and did quite well. I'm sure that the older siblings did help with the younger siblings, but I've never heard anyone complain about their childhood. It sounded like a lot of fun honestly. They had so many built in playmates! Many of them went on to have 4-6 kids of their own as well. As for filming the birth on tv, I personally wouldn't do it myself and I wouldn't watch it, but there must be someone out there that wants to see it or TLC wouldn't film it and air it! eta - typo
QUOTE I will never agree that those children are getting what they need emotionally and psychologically from their parents. I don't believe it's physically possible. Most of those kids are mini parents. I fail to understand how women in this day and age can actually applaud a woman who pops out 18 children and then does what? Assigns each of her children to look after the next? This is a woman who won't cook all her kids meals and boasts that her teenage daughter cooks for the entire family, she won't wake up each morning to wash and dress her kids, yet boasts that her kids do that for her. She claims to be homeschooling them, but gets her elder kids to school the younger ones. And this woman is respected why again? Because she had these kids and does it all, or because she produced her own work force? Let's be honest. When she and her husband can take care of their children themselves and not use those kids to do more than the "chores" regular kids should do, buy their own appliances for their home, and so on... then I'll probably have some respect for them and consider them to be parents. Till then, they IMO remain people who reproduce for personal gain, while hiding behind the curtain of religion to gain some credibility.
QUOTE(melissao @ Dec 4 2008, 08:16 PM) [snapback]1098266[/snapback] I've never seen a show about them and don't care too, but I wouldn't criticize them for choosing to have a large family. We don't live in China. They can have as many as they want to. If they can afford to have that many kids and feel like they can provide for them emotionally and physically, more power to them! I think large families (not 18, but 8, 10, 12 kids) used to be a lot more common than they are now. Our society isn't made for large families anymore, but people didn't used to eat out and do things away from home as much as we do now in the US. Also, not everyone who has a large family is a religious fanatic. Yes, larger families make sense in a culture where more hands (on the family farm, for instance) = higher productivity and therefore, more resources/income for the family to support itself. Even in farming communities, which now rely heavily on industrial equipment for their major operations, I suspect there are few examples of this is a necessary survival technique (especially at this level) within the US today. I do agree that large family does not imply religious fanatacism, but I do consider (at this level) that it is extremism in and of itself. I disagree that simply because we are not living in China where reproduction is controlled means we have no moral obligation to consider the planetary consequences of over population.
I work in the Mom Baby Unit of a very busy hospital. I would rather the Duggers have baby after baby then a crack addicted mom who has a 5 kids in 5 years with 5 different dads and no one has a job. If I don't have to pay for them and they aren't being abused, it doesn't bother me. I would LOVE another baby BUT I would have to depend on WIC and welfare to raise it and that is not fair to do to anyone......the baby or taxpayers so we wont have any more.
QUOTE(dollymomma @ Dec 4 2008, 05:06 PM) [snapback]1097895[/snapback] Good thing we aren't under the microscope of the North American viewing audience... Like I said, it's easy to judge, but it doesn't make it right... THEY CHOSE to be under that microscope for the almighty dollar.
QUOTE(Donita @ Dec 5 2008, 08:08 AM) [snapback]1098461[/snapback] THEY CHOSE to be under that microscope for the almighty dollar. Well to be fair Donita, they HAVE to be. How the hell else can you afford 18 kids??????
I just hope the next Duggar child does not have a name that starts with a J. JEEZ. There is such a thing as being addicted to having children. Its a uphoria when they are born. Not to say they dont enjoy raising 9000 kids, but having babies is a different experience than having toddlers...they could be "Uphoric" about having another baby to hold. WHats the fun of more kids if all your time is spent in basic care?? Next they will build their own college for them. I think they are rediculous as well as Jon and Kate plus 8. Thats a whole other issue.
Wow. There are some incredibly judgemental remarks on this thread. I know the Duggars are controversial, but still...
I don't care for (or understand) the Duggar's particular brand of spirituality but I don't care how many children they have. I don't think that is really an issue – the issue is that they exude this manner of religious pompousness then parade their large family on TV for the lucrative reality show cash.
QUOTE(momof5 @ Dec 4 2008, 10:42 PM) [snapback]1098292[/snapback] I work in the Mom Baby Unit of a very busy hospital. I would rather the Duggers have baby after baby then a crack addicted mom who has a 5 kids in 5 years with 5 different dads and no one has a job. If I don't have to pay for them and they aren't being abused, it doesn't bother me. I would LOVE another baby BUT I would have to depend on WIC and welfare to raise it and that is not fair to do to anyone......the baby or taxpayers so we wont have any more. I don't think you're going to get anyone to argue with you on that. Completely different situation. That doesn't mean people can't find fault with their decision to have that many children. Sure, they have the "right" to have that many kids, but I guess I'm more for quality vs quantity. At what point do your older kids suffer by having so many more children? I just find it odd and selfish. Doesn't mean I don't think they have a right to do so. Something about it just nags at me. Like they NEED that many children around to carry something (their religion?) on? Not the best reason to have children, IMO.
^^I agree Tracey. And what I really dislike is the fact they keep having these children that they don't even parent because they have their older siblings parent them. These kids are being robbed of a childhood. I'm really disgusted by these parents.
QUOTE(PetiteFleur @ Dec 5 2008, 02:18 PM) [snapback]1098999[/snapback] Sure, they have the "right" to have that many kids, but I guess I'm more for quality vs quantity. At what point do your older kids suffer by having so many more children? I just find it odd and selfish. This is my biggest problem with them. Sure, I've admitted already that I think they are crazy, and creating their own little religious army, but that's just my opinion. Blanket training ... :bad: But, for me it keeps coming back to the whole quality time with your kids. I think about all the things that me and my sister and my mom did together. All the talks we had, the girls dinners, the one on ones between me and mom ... the relationship that cultivated between us. It's impossible to have that when you have 20 kids vying for your attention. People can tell me all day long that's it possible, but I don't believe it. In the "normal" family (who isn't pimpiing their kids and family out) at least one member of the household is working. How would that person (be it mom or dad) every spend time with their 20 kids??? The whole thing just reeks of craziness to me. There is no other way for me to describe it.
I could quote 25 people from this thread! I too agree that they seem to be hypocrits in that they want to shield their children away from all the scary things of society, but inturn exploint them on national TV. They have obviously profitted by it (their living room is bigger than my entire house!) and they just continue to do it. The thing that doesn't sit right with me the most is the lack of individual attention those children must have. It seems their lives are organized to the hilt and full of responsbilities that they are being robbed, and not really properly prepared for the future. I can so see one or two of those kids rebelling in a few years...of course they will probably write books about it and sell the movie rights
I just went and read a little bit about blanket training. I'm literally sick to my stomach. Then I read about the Quiverfull movement and almost threw up my lunch. Gag. :bad:
My curiosity got the better of me and I looked up blanket training. Seems there are varying ways to do it, but they all disgust me. :shok:
QUOTE(4lilmonkeys @ Dec 5 2008, 03:02 PM) [snapback]1099085[/snapback] I just went and read a little bit about blanket training. I'm literally sick to my stomach. Then I read about the Quiverfull movement and almost threw up my lunch. Gag. :bad: I read some too and I agree with you, 100%.
QUOTE(4lilmonkeys @ Dec 4 2008, 01:26 PM) [snapback]1097418[/snapback] I assume this is directed at me. When you choose this lifestyle, you open yourself up to critics and their not-so-nice comments. There is very little that is amazing or respectable about a woman who puts her health, and the health and welfare of her children at risk. It is deplorable and sickening, and not just because of the sheer amount of children they have, but because they profit off it too. So, excuse me for not rejoicing in their decision to broadcast the birth of the 18th child, but it's a little disturbing. However, if any of the moderators feel that I have crossed the line and would like me to delete my comment, I gladly will. I agree. When you put yourself in the public eye like that, you can't exactly expect to sensor the response you get from your actions. On a separate note, I don't understand wanting to show the birth when she wouldn't even show the skin on her tummy when she went for her ultrasound. They were made to cover it with a "tent." Seems a little hypocritical to me, but then again, I haven't seen (and don't plan to see) the birth show, so they might handle it without showing anything...maybe?
QUOTE(caba @ Dec 5 2008, 11:24 AM) [snapback]1099005[/snapback] But, for me it keeps coming back to the whole quality time with your kids. I think about all the things that me and my sister and my mom did together. All the talks we had, the girls dinners, the one on ones between me and mom ... the relationship that cultivated between us. It's impossible to have that when you have 20 kids vying for your attention. People can tell me all day long that's it possible, but I don't believe it. In the "normal" family (who isn't pimpiing their kids and family out) at least one member of the household is working. How would that person (be it mom or dad) every spend time with their 20 kids??? The whole thing just reeks of craziness to me. There is no other way for me to describe it. We all come from our own experiences - you valued the mom/caba/sister time - in the case of the Duggars they may value their bigger family activities. And, I'm not 100% convinced these kids have the same needs as kids from smaller families. It's easy to project our own experiences (good or bad) to evaluate choices made by others. In some families/cultures, extended families are the norm and it's blasphemy to "let someone else raise your kid" via daycare or a nanny. For some, having a working mom is wrong. In the case of the Duggars, I think statistically some of those kids are not getting what they probably need from their parents - but who really gets everything they need. For instance, with Jon and Kate, I can see Mady (their oldest) has a real problem with the younger kids - you can see it in episode after episode. I worry about her not getting what she needs. But honestly, I think she would have had a problem with a third baby, I don't think it's the sheer number, I think its personality and neediness. I'm not defending them, I'm just saying we don't know for sure how things are unless we are a part of their family. Erica, I'm not trying to pick on you, I know others have said similar things, your post was just most recent. I'm just presenting another way to look at it. Personally, I think the Duggars a bale or two short of a hayride and a lot of what they are doing I don't agree with. I would guess a few of those kids will rebel, I watched the episode on the courtship last night and saw their "wild cousin" who has kissed boys, dresses normally and wears make up. However I do respect that they are self supporting. I'm sure the TLC money helps, but as I understand it, they were financially free before the shows. I do wish Michelle would splurge on a haircut.
QUOTE(TwinsInFL @ Dec 5 2008, 12:33 PM) [snapback]1099127[/snapback] On a separate note, I don't understand wanting to show the birth when she wouldn't even show the skin on her tummy when she went for her ultrasound. They were made to cover it with a "tent." Seems a little hypocritical to me, but then again, I haven't seen (and don't plan to see) the birth show, so they might handle it without showing anything...maybe? My guess is this show is less about the "birth" than about the arrival of# 18. I think A Baby Story on TLC will have more skin than this episode.
QUOTE(samilymom @ Dec 5 2008, 07:46 PM) [snapback]1099044[/snapback] I too agree that they seem to be hypocrits in that they want to shield their children away from all the scary things of society, but inturn exploint them on national TV. They have obviously profitted by it (their living room is bigger than my entire house!) and they just continue to do it. The thing that doesn't sit right with me the most is the lack of individual attention those children must have. It seems their lives are organized to the hilt and full of responsbilities that they are being robbed, and not really properly prepared for the future. I can so see one or two of those kids rebelling in a few years...of course they will probably write books about it and sell the movie rights They are not an average family and the editing at TLC tries to make them look like they are. I think they show more ugliness on Jon and Kate. I wish that there would be more depth into their beliefs and the like, because there wouldn't be another show on them. Where's Nancy Grace in all of this?!?!?! I won't be watching, in case you couldn't tell.
QUOTE(akameme @ Dec 5 2008, 03:47 PM) [snapback]1099160[/snapback] Personally, I think the Duggars a bale or two short of a hayride :rotflmbo: The best line of this entire thread :lol: My issue is not with the amount of children the Duggars are raising. I have more of an issue with their fame soley based upon this large number of children. My parents have a number of Mennonite families in their little town in Wisconsin. These families do not practice birth control either. The young family down the street from them has ten children already with #11 on the way. The oldest child is about 12 or 13 right now. This couple is in their mid to late 30's. I have no doubt they will continue to have several more children. They are Mennonite so their family practice methods are part and parcel of their religion and lifestyle. This is but one Mennonite family living in the area. Most have large numbers of children as well. But you will NEVER see one of them exploiting their families on TV. They live their lives simply and quietly and dedicated to their faith. This I can admire. The Duggars? Not so much. My opinion is the Duggars are attention whores.
QUOTE(4lilmonkeys @ Dec 5 2008, 03:02 PM) [snapback]1099085[/snapback] I just went and read a little bit about blanket training. I'm literally sick to my stomach. Then I read about the Quiverfull movement and almost threw up my lunch. Gag. :bad: ITA. I had never heard of Quiverfull till this thread, and yuck! No thank you. Hey Gini, are you sure I can't offer you a pansy? You're agreeing with us an awful lot lately
QUOTE(JB07 @ Dec 5 2008, 12:55 PM) [snapback]1098871[/snapback] Wow. There are some incredibly judgemental remarks on this thread. I know the Duggars are controversial, but still... ...still. You cant be on TV, have 18 kids, live the life they do and not expect judgment. It is what it is, and they will get it weather you agree they deserve it or not.
QUOTE(caba @ Dec 5 2008, 08:22 AM) [snapback]1098478[/snapback] Well to be fair Donita, they HAVE to be. How the hell else can you afford 18 kids?????? Stop poppin em' out.
So how many are too many kids to have? I know some of the people on TS have up to 13 kids. We also have families on here who have been on TLC because of their interesting families. Others have been on Oprah. So some of the comments in this thread could very well be said about some of our very OWN people who come to TS, and to me that would be very hurtful. I think its very interesting that the very people who do not like to be judged because they are not Christians..feel its ok that they can judge these people because of their beliefs. I do not watch their show on a regular basis. I don't know much about them. However, I do respect their right to do whatever they want with their family. They built their own house..have their bill paid..take care of their own children and still have love and respect for others and their kids. I took care of my little brother and sister when I was a teen. I cleaned my house for my mom..and I still grew up normal (well normal for me). Also this mom does let her kids watch some TV and have internet time. They do get to watch some of the TLC shows..and this is the only place she would allow her stories to be, because they get to watch it. SO that is not hyprocritical. Also..if you do disagree with this family..then don't do what they are doing..why is it bothering or hurting you anyways?? Just my opinion..flame if you want too. Brandy
You'll notice there is a pretty equal distribution of faiths/lack of faith among those who consider themselves 'not a Duggar fan' for whatever reason. That said, judge me all you want for not being Xian. BTW, :birthday: to your girls! ETA: No one here is saying they don't have the right to do what they are doing...but don't forget we're all here hanging out and chatting about whatever, and we (Christians, Jews, Muslims, others) also have the right to an opinion, which doesn't have to match anyone elses. I am sure my thoughts on family size with respect to environmental stewardship are not popular among the larger families here on TS. However, I also don't agree with a lot of parenting techniques employed by families here either. I express those opinions when the discussions come up, and I don't expect other people to refrain from debating against my preferences simply because I exist here. If you put yourself out there (here included) you have to expect to hear a range of thoughts on any given subject. It's not always personal when debates emerge and frankly, I'm rarely interested in any topic of conversation if there aren't a variety of view points to chew on and consider.
I usually don't watch the show, but I could give a rat’s anus what they do there or on TV. Their kids seem happy, healthy and fine to me. Who the heck am I to judge…then again this is only coming from a Redneck livin in Texas placing a big foot print on earth with my 5 kids and no farm! YEE HAW! HA!
QUOTE(sjdes @ Dec 5 2008, 04:21 PM) [snapback]1099285[/snapback] I usually don't watch the show, but I could give a rat’s anus what they do there or on TV. Their kids seem happy, healthy and fine to me. Who the heck am I to judge…then again this is only coming from a Redneck livin in Texas placing a big foot print on earth with my 5 kids and no farm! YEE HAW! HA! Jeesh..how could you do this to our country?? You should be ashamed of yourself.. ( Just joking btw) Brandy
QUOTE(sjdes @ Dec 5 2008, 02:21 PM) [snapback]1099285[/snapback] I usually don't watch the show, but I could give a rat's anus what they do there or on TV. Their kids seem happy, healthy and fine to me. Who the heck am I to judge…then again this is only coming from a Redneck livin in Texas placing a big foot print on earth with my 5 kids and no farm! YEE HAW! HA! :laughing:
QUOTE(SweetpeaG @ Dec 5 2008, 04:21 PM) [snapback]1099284[/snapback] You'll notice there is a pretty equal distribution of faiths/lack of faith among those who consider themselves 'not a Duggar fan' for whatever reason. That said, judge me all you want for not being Xian. BTW, :birthday: to your girls! ETA: No one here is saying they don't have the right to do what they are doing...but don't forget we're all here hanging out and chatting about whatever, and we (Christians, Jews, Muslims, others) also have the right to an opinion, which doesn't have to match anyone elses. I am sure my thoughts on family size with respect to environmental stewardship are not popular among the larger families here on TS. However, I also don't agree with a lot of parenting techniques employed by families here either. I express those opinions when the discussions come up, and I don't expect other people to refrain from debating against my preferences simply because I exist here. If you put yourself out there (here included) you have to expect to hear a range of thoughts on any given subject. It's not always personal when debates emerge and frankly, I'm rarely interested in any topic of conversation if there aren't a variety of view points to chew on and consider. Thanks for the Birthday WISH. We are about to go to dinner ...Mexican. Brandy
QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Dec 5 2008, 10:12 PM) [snapback]1099267[/snapback] Also..if you do disagree with this family..then don't do what they are doing..why is it bothering or hurting you anyways?? The same could be said of many things. Abortion, for instance.
Brandy, I know it's been said several times that it isn't about how many children they have. It's the hypocrisy of the whole thing that bugs me. I understand that they aren't preaching or telling people that this is how they should live their lives, and I appreciate that. But, it is obvious in so many ways that this family is not as perfect as the image that they try to put out there. In fact, I think that there is a very large and very visible breakdown going on inside their four walls and that at some point, there will be real repercussions from this particular lifestyle. It isn't about how many kids are people "allowed" to have, but a question of when it becomes harmful.
QUOTE(Snittens @ Dec 5 2008, 04:00 PM) [snapback]1099250[/snapback] Hey Gini, are you sure I can't offer you a pansy? You're agreeing with us an awful lot lately :lol: I thought y'all were agreeing with me!
Hmm...When that pregnant man starts popping out about 15 children will he then get the same treatment from some of same defenders of The Duggars? At what number will it stop being "creepy"? Or will him and his wife have to join the Quiverful "church" and blanket train their children to get the same "who is it hurting? who cares?" attitude?
