NTR Is President Obama being insensitive?

Mods get more smilies because we're special. *runs and hides!*

 

Did it make you feel good to type that?

and how have I condemned others?

It's really not worth sharing an opposing opinion with others sometimes. No matter what is said something will be picked out and statements made fun of. I really feel that is the only reason opinions are asked to be shared.

 

Speaking solely for myself, I'm really not interested in having this discussion turn from the question of "how far is acceptable?" (still unanswered) to "well, [my group] has been picked on/is being picked on and let's talk about that." We can all point to moments when [some group or other we are affiliated with--Star Trek vs Star Wars, for instance] has been picked on or treated unfairly, and how it made us feel bad.

But that doesn't answer the question that the topic has come down to, which is: how far away is acceptable?

 

You quoted my post and had a problem with the word "past". I changed the word to "currently" because according to your post you had a problem with the word "past". If you had a problem with the entire post then perhaps you should have addressed it in the same post? Might save us some time.

 

You're absolutely 100% right Ruby! So, I would like to take this moment, and apologize to all Twilight fans for my complete, and utter past, present and future disrespect towards your (again general) unhealthy obsession reading pleasure.

If I took a shot of Tequila for everytime this question has gone unanswered today....

 

The bottom line is why should a entire group of people (in this case Muslims) be punished because of the acts of a few individuals. There are extremists in all forms but they are not banned. I am sure the businesses in New York have no problem accepting the Muslims money when they come into their establishments close to ground zero. I am sure that is different though. I am sure people have no problem in New York accepting Muslims tax dollars, shopping money, food money etc... but NO community center at all.

 

I will ask it too: "How far away from Ground Zero should Muslims be allowed to build a Community Center that houses a Mosque?

 

The truth is..we all deserve and have the right to believe and practice what we want. I am suprised that Christians want to take that right away..because we could be next. The Islam religion use to scare me..I wont lie. Then I meet and became friends with people in Turkey who were the nicest, most loving in the World. They acted more like Jesus wants us too..then some Christians I know. I know the fear some of these people have...but if they go to live a couple of years with the real people of this belief..they would know they arent all out to kill us. I think if any of us (as a Christian) want the right to have a church somewhere, read the Bible or even pray where we want..we have to support this right for others too.

Brandy

 

TS drinking games! :laughing: We're all over the globe, so it's got to be 5:00 somewhere...

On a more serious note, awesome post, Brandy. :bow2:

 

Brandy, you just warm my heart. :wub:

 

No points left. Tried to give you one!

 

Brandy, you are spot on! :clapping:

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

- Pastor Martin Niemöller

 

I was talking about this last night with an acquaintance from Indiana, and I asked her the "how far away is acceptable then?" and she said....


".... somewhere over in the sand dunes would be a good start. And while we're at it, let's stop giving every illegal alien who pushes out a kid rights to live here."

:faint:

How can you win when everyone is just giving off sound bites directly off Bill O'Reilly's show?

 

You rock Brandy!!!

 

Exactly!! :bow2:

 

Thank you SO much for saying this. I mean seriously. Thank you so, so so much for saying this. I think this is the real heart of the issue.
This is how I feel. As a believer myself I feel it's hugely important to stand up for the right to practice belief. I think that is at the heart of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It is a key element of faith, in my opinion.

 

I think Cheryl needs a Brandy-like experience to see where the rest of us are coming from. I remember when Brandy joined Twinstuff and the transformation since then has been thrilling to watch (well, read). I know that it was not always easy for you (Brandy) in Turkey, but I have to commend you on how you handled it and what you have obviously gained from it.

I will personally donate $50 (USD!) to the "Send Cheryl to Live in Iran for Three Months Fund". I think it would be very beneficial for Cheryl to live with a (Muslim) Iranian family for three months. Not only will you (Cheryl) find out how hospitable Muslims are, you'll also be able to separate your opinions of extremists from individual Muslims and separate your opinions of governments of Muslim countries with Muslims from that same country (and the food is very good too!).

 

I'm late to the party I suppose.

I think my points have mostly been made, down to Kendra posting up the pictures of everything in a 2 block radius of the WTC site. Islam is a beautiful religion. Very peaceful, full of kindness and love. Of course there are extremists, just like there are vocal extremists in every religion, Fred Phelps, Tom Cruise. But if it wasn't full of kindness, caring, and love, my children would not be in a Muslim house every day at daycare. They would not be taught by Muslim ladies. I feel peaceful dropping my children off every day at daycare because I know of the love, calmness, peace, and care that they receive. (I did have to jokingly ask if the head was making the kids fast during Ramadan, and she said, "oh goodness no!)

And Brandy said it when she said:

 

Wow, so many points to be made and most have been said, but Brandy really hit it square on the head with her comment that Bex and Tina both quoted. :good:

 

What is sad is so many Americans think the same way that Cheryl thinks. I wonder when Americans are going to break down these racial sterotypes and barriers that have been built up. Not just with Muslims, but with Hispanics, African Americans etc. I guess we still have a very long way to go.

 

Unofficial mod request - let's please not start complaining about others (by name) on the site. It brings down the conversation and I think this is an important subject. Please? :give_rose:

 

Starting to feel like I am :BDH: on this issue but I will ask again anyway because I am certain lots of us want to know, how far would the community centre have to be away from ground zero to be acceptable?

On the Condemning all Christians point, can anybody show me one post by one person that does that? I don't recall seeing any.

Oh and the final thing, to all the people talking about the feelings of the victims and families of victims of 9/11 and how they hate the plans and it is a slap in the face and insensitive to them, did any of you read the link I posted before to This site, I would be interested on your opinions about the families that are actually in favour of the project, or does what they think not matter?

 

I'm confused. I though President Obama was trying to turn us into a socialist nation.

 

Clearly you don't understand how these things work. Socialism = Evil, Islam = Evil, therefore Socialism = Islam. Understand now?

 

Don't forget that he's too liberal and too conservative (unless you ask a fellow moderate who will probably peg him correctly as a moderate) in addition to all that. And as I've discovered in my long years of being moderate, we really irritate people with our middle of the road ways!

 

I'm an outsider.. don't live in the U.S... but I will venture with an opinion... I do think it is insensitive and so do a lot of us from abroad think so... obviosuly talking about legal matters it should be allowed, but it is insensitive. Just an opinion from a large poll from foreigners. I cant possibly imagine what a laugh the extremists must be having seeing Americans fighting over this subject :cry:

 

See below.

Thank you for the lesson! I know you are jesting but there too many folks out there listening to Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and the like who actually really have been brainwashed to think like this. Now that is truly frightening!!

Personally, I think the most respectful thing we could do is not allow any facilities of any sort built on the sacred ground of the WTC except for a secular national memorial to honor the dead. But this mosque isn't supposed to be actually on Ground Zero, is it? I need to read more about it. I do know I am tired of the Islamophobia running rampant in this country. Innocent Muslims died that day too but that is conveniently glossed over whenever this issue arises.

 

Catching up on this thread and just had to say what a wonderful, well thought out post this was!! :bow2: And in answer to the original question posted, no, I don't believe President Obama is being insensitive. Rather he is upholding the law. It's kind of his job, huh?

Brandy, I applaud you for this. Truly. You realize that the people who committed this horrible crime are the ones responsible, not everyone who just happens to be of the Muslim faith. Maybe that is because of your experiences living in a Muslim country. It has put a "face" on the religion, and you don't think of it as some abstract unknown. Whatever the case, I am proud of you!!

Another fantastic post!! And to the bolded, "Bravo!" Imagine yourself a Muslim, try to put yourself in their shoes, and realize how this must feel to someone who is just living their life and wanting to practice their faith. We talk about religious persecution all the time here (at least in the Den) but this is even more insidious. It's a hidden intolerance in a country that is supposed to have freedom to practice whenever, wherever, and however we choose.

Anne, as always you bring a viewpoint that most Americans never witness. Thank you.

I am actually horrified by this discussion but hopeful that there are people that can make the distinction between people who committed a horrible atrocity and the religion they practiced. And yet I continue to get the hateful emails stating that President Obama is a Muslim as if there is something scary about being a Muslim.

 

*Sigh* I guess the drinking game has begun again for the second day. Thankfully, it's past 5pm here.

Well, I'm meeting up with a few of my Muslim friends this coming weekend for drinks/dinner... I have a bottle of Tequila, and one of them brought back some margarita mix from a recent trip to the U.S. And, we'll be reuniting right smack in the middle of their holy month of Ramadan mind you, so I'm pretty sure I'll get to see just how scary they can be. Will report back to you Sunday morning.. If I don't appear on TS, you'll know they lied about the mix, and stoned me to death.

 

Since no one is responding to the distance question....Is the community center within eyesight of the memorial? That's the only thing that I would consider insensitive.

 

I just googled and this is a map of the proposed location.

 

Thanks Kim! It doesn't seem to be close enough to warrant any discussion

 

HERE is the address on Google Maps. You can click "street view" to see what it looks like from the ground. You can't see Ground Zero from there.

 

Not only that but this area if I am not mistaken is near or part of the area historically known as Little Syria.