NTR Is President Obama being insensitive?

Interesting.

Did you listen to the other interview I posted a link to? One of the spokespeople for the project speaks in detail about not totally ruling out the possibility of moving it once they have had a chance to speak more with the 9-11 families who they have been speaking with for a while now.

 

I just think this bears repeating.

 

It always seems funny to me when we try to deny rights to groups of people based on our own prejudices and use words like "insensitivity" to attempt to disguise the prejudice. The really scary thing I observe is the number of people who are willing to ignore the Constitution when it suits them.

 

I have seen the word "provocation" thrown around a lot in this thread from those who are against the building of a Muslim based community center where the Burlington Coat Factory is.

Are people saying that Muslims just want to stir up some sh!t by building this? If so, how do you know this? Is it because of your vast personal experience with Muslims and their intentions when it comes to community centers? Or is it because you know intuitively that Muslims are just provacative people by nature and therefore you want to punish them based on this? Way to make yourselves look intolerant and prejudice! I guess since the terrorists that brought down the towers that day were intolerant and prejudice it's ok to have the same attitude against people of the same religion.

I saw the attacks first hand in NYC. Saw the planes crash, felt the buildings fall and like others within blocks of WTC thought I may die that day. There are days during my commute when I have to go past that freaking hole in the ground!! It sucks. So PLEASE! Build something beautiful, healing, tolerant and community based nearby so that we have something else to reflect on rather than the destruction. And yes, for those of you who have not experienced the beauty that Islam can be- a Muslim Community Center can be beautiful, healing and tolerant.

 

Okay, what I don't understand is how far away would be okay for this community center to be built? It is not on the site of the WTC, it is 2 blocks away. So, what is the magic number... 3 blocks? 4? 10 miles? No one is answering that question. We can't just choose some arbitrary number & say Muslims have to stay x blocks away from the former WTC. That would kind of negate the whole "home of the free" idea.

 

Fair enough, how about I bring up condemning every Christian based on their religion's history of harming others? How about I bring up the fact that people should protest anymore Catholic churches being built, as they could stand as a reminder of the evil acts committed upon innocent children? This is so very typical of humans in general isn't it? When you know full well how great the problem is, how difficult it has been for the world's strongest military and government to eradicate one small minority group, what do you (general) do? Do you join hands to make things right, or do you point a finger at the nearest affiliation to that group and condemn them for something which is not their fault? I believe humans do the latter, and I believe those same people, should later sit silent when their own faith/beliefs are judged based on the actions of a few extremists among them. Fair is fair right?

 

Reid speaks out against Ground Zero mosque location

I actually read this a while ago on another link but waited till I could find it on one that many here have said they read/trust

 

Just because the Senate majority leader may have said he's against it doesn't mean his position is right, and it doesn't mean his position represents the views of the majority of Americans. His position adds nothing to the discussion, in my opinion.

 

ust because the president may have said he's for it doesn't mean his position is right, and it doesn't mean his position represents the views of the majority of Americans. His position adds nothing to the discussion, in my opinion.

 

You, Obama, Reid and everybody else has a right to their opinion. What makes somebody's position valid is not who they are but what underpins their opinion. Reid (and those who agree with him) are basing their opinions on arguments thar are illogical and are not grounded in fact. It is that not who they are that makes their position incorrect and unsupportable.

 

Seems to me that only a minority of Americans are opposing this, not the majority. Personally, I find it ironic (as in funny) that when it comes right down to it, there is one far right group in the west, opposing one far right group in the east, who in turn oppose the western group. However, as always both groups are responsible for creating a huge uproar by targeting people not even closely affiliated to the group they detest. It would be hilarious, if they weren't disturbing our peace of mind.

 

So how far away is ok for those who are opposed in this thread? What distance away from ground zero would make a mosque or other Muslim religious building not a provocation/slap in the face/surrender?

 

I believe that many on this site do condemn all Christians. I don't disagree with Muslim groups building places of worship....I do believe they are wrong to do that CLOSE to Ground Zero. I am not asking anyone's permission to feel that way, could not care less about anyone's opinion of my feelings, and rest confident in the fact that I can live with which ever way it turns out.

 

I like what Keith Olberman (sp?) had to say about it. Even if you don't agree with his position he brings up some interesting facts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/16/olbermann-ground-zero-mosque_n_684272.html

 

That's what I am wondering? How far away?

 

I read somewhere that someone suggested France. But I think that is a bit extreme.

 

Amazing how when the religion is changed from Muslim to Christian the tables are turned...

oh and I don't believe for one nanosecond that "many" on this site condemn ALL Christians...just the Phelps Clown Show...

 

I do hope you aren't confused as to the difference between not being a believer and "condemning all Christians."

 

Does the proposed building project break zoning regulations that are already in place? If so, I certainly don't think regulations should be changed to favor the mosque (it's a mosque, not a community center, imo. Our city has a church that built a gym, pool, day care,etc. It's free for the community to use but it's still a church, not a community center with a prayer room.)No religion should be favored by preferential zoning, etc.

But if they are not breaking any laws then of course it should be built. As countless others have said, religious intolerance starts somewhere. If you want your own religion to stay safe then you better work as hard as you can to protect others' rights as well.

And honestly, I don't see why this has anything to do with Obama. I don't think anyone would even be bringing him into the picture if it weren't for the fact that he is secretly trying to "turn this country to Islam" (LOL).

Having grown up spending every summer in Islamic countries and now working for a company that cleans up the heartache left by extremist Muslims, it seems that the people who consider 9/11 an Islamic attack are usually people who are not familiar with Islam or the Islamic people. Do I think they are going to hell? Yes, as a Christian I do. Do I think they are an evil people? Absolutely not! They are people just like us who live and love just like us. And honestly, unless you know any Muslim people in America I don't think you can comprehend the way they are treated here in the US because of 9/11.

If you have a chance, you should watch the episode of "30 Days" where Morgan Spurlock sends a conservative Southern Christian to live for 30 days as a Muslim.

 

I'm out of points, so here's a virtual +1 for you ladies.

What an odd assertion. Surely you don't mistake respectful debate of certain issues and disgust at Phelps and other hateful extremists for condemnation of all Christians? I don't know anyone here, let alone "many," who condemns all Christians.

 

And honestly, I don't see why this has anything to do with Obama. I don't think anyone would even be bringing him into the picture if it weren't for the fact that he umm spoke on the topic, maybe? Have you not watched the NEWS? He placed himself into it by speaking on the matter Friday and then again on Saturday to "clarify". Even people in his party have said he did not have to speak to this (especially now). It was not necessary. It was a local issue for local politicians to get voted in or out on until he spoke (politically speaking). He has now given those who are running in these next elections 3 options and none are going to help them. That is why it has something to do with Obama now.

 

maybe you don't know many (here or IRL) that condemn all Christians but many here DO judge harshly the ideals and opinions of many Christians here. How well do any of us know the other really, where others stand on religious ideals? Members here may not do it directly but they do use offensive language and religious slurs, they speak against ideals of people not on this site not knowing or caring that others ON this site share those same ideals and religious views. Often it is written with the cute little "not general you" placed in for safety sake so as to not get a strike. Doing this may make the Mods and Admins turn and eye or throw out the "remember the TOS" once in a great while but it does not prevent Christians here from feeling the words toward them personally. Those who do it either don't see it of pretend they don't. All the while displaying a bumper sticker with the word "Coexist" on their vehicles.

"Respectful debate" is a debatable term. Unless one can feel how direct words feel to a person with an opposing opinion you really do not know. Unless one can accept that they might have hurt someone's feelings and apologize it is not respectable debate.

 

Does no one who is opposed to the mosque have any idea how far away would be considered acceptable?

 

I would readily jump onto that TS band wagon (if it existed) but for the remarkable, and almost Christ like attitude of a great many Christians on this site.... And, of course if I weren't a cultural one myself. I do commend you on your patience and tolerance however... I know I would personally find it exceptionally difficult to just accept something cold hearted that someone with much arrogance did, which caused pain to others who have suffered already.

 

For me i think it b/c it is where it sits. its like its a slap in the face to those that survived,to those that helped the victims,to the families that lost the loved ones. no i don't think it should be builted.
and yes i think he is being very very insensitive. and as cheryl put it 2012 can't get her quick enough.

 

This can't be true! NONE of my Christian friends feel judged or or condemned! So, I doubt it's true.

 

You're talking about people here? On TS? And, you claim we all don't know each other really well? Yet you know them well enough to know what they display on their cars? I'm so confused... How in the world did this become a "Christians on TS are condemned" thread? I thought we were condemning another religion... (Smiley placed for safety, so I may not get a strike.) (And, another one to prove I mean it.)

How many am I allowed per post? Three?

 

I'm not seeing the Christian condemnation even in this thread. I have seen people asking "how would you feel if the shoe were on the other foot?" which is not the same thing.

And whether some members of TS do or do not "condemn all Christians" is off topic anyway, and a distraction from the discussion at hand.

 

I don't see the Christian condemnation in this thread either. Rather, I see "I have been condemned for my beliefs in the past, therefore I am allowed to do the same to others".

 

no distraction meant. My apologies. Continue the defense of Muslims and this community center/Mosque.

I should not have used the words bumper sticker that was wrong. It just distracted from the conversation. Stuck my toe in and got it nipped at. Darn I need to remember not to try and see if we can really have a discussion.

 

yes let's call it "the past"

 

7 smileys. (I think? :umm

The problem I see here is that people opposed to this center being built near ground zero would be opposed to any sort of Muslim building being built in America period, but this is the only place they can claim a "reasonable problem" exists. I think that's why so many people are vocal about this because they can't complain about a mosque being built in their town or state without people rightly pointing out their bigotry. I think this is why no one is answering the distance question. I have a feeling "not in America" is the answer bouncing around in people's heads.

I don't hide my children from Catholics, I don't find my fiance's British accent offensive because it reminds me of British rule in America, I don't think Jews that wear their yarmulkes on Good Friday are gloating about killing Jesus and I certainly don't think Muslims are terrorists. I think that anyone who feels that way needs to stand back and get a grip on themselves. They also might want to look at who has been perpetrating most, if not all of, the terrorist acts on American soil since 9/11, and who those terrorists have been targeting.

 

So sorry!

What I see is "I am currently being condemned for my beliefs therefore I currently deserve to do the same to others". I hope I made you feel better Cheryl!

 

Hmmm, I thought it was 10....

:help: :gah: :BDH: :hush: :crazy: :drown: opcorn: :headbang: :wine:

:blbl:

 

You want to have a discussion? Let's do it then. You oppose the mosque so close to Ground Zero? What is the distance you would find acceptable? If you (general you, so as not to earn myself a strike) feel it should not be there, please help us continue the discussion (or our "defense of Muslims" as you put it) by actually discussing the topic further yourself.