Is this unreasonable re: SIL's BFing

I have to agree that this visit could be used as an opportunity to teach your boys proper social boundaries. Especially if SIL is comfortable talking about what she is doing.

Imagine if you were out at a local park and a Mom decided to start breast feeding her baby on the bench next to you. What would you do in that situation? If your boys get to experience seeing that it is a natural, normal thing some people do then seeing someone doing it out in a public place will not phase them. If they get shown that it is not something they should feel embarrassed about or that the woman herself should feel embarrassed about then an accidental viewing of a breast as a mom is feeding her baby will not be a big deal for them.

 

I agree.

I also want to ask, what is bf'ing modestly?

You ask that and will get as many different answers as responders. Personally I never had a problem tandem nursing and still not showing my breasts but everyone is different. My babies would freak out if I put a blanket over them when nursing. They would rather have starved than be covered. Just because a blanket is not used it doesn't mean a mother can't be modest and show less than a bathing suit would.

I would suggest you figure out your comfort level first.
If she is not behaving within those parameters you can choose to say something to her or leave the room. She is your guest in your house for a short period of time. Being courteous of her needs shouldn't be too much to ask. I also dont think a 3 y/o will be offended, that is an older response. They may be curious but their curiosity shouldn't have a sexual overtone to it. BF'ing has no sexual connotation to it. They'll react the same as if she was feeding her child with a bottle. It's a perfect learning opportunity to answer any questions they may have.

I find that for situations like this, my discomfort is more my issue than theirs.

 

My girls were 3.5 when I stopped BFing my son. They watched me, and, to get them involved, I would let them 'help' me feed him. By that they would just put their hand on my breast as if they were holding a bottle. They enjoyed it, and I explained to them that that was how brother ate, and those were his bottles (LOL, they STILL ask about his bottles!) I never got into the scientific explanation, what I did satisified their curiosity, and they were happy that we got them involved in caring for their younger sibling.

Really I don't think it's a big deal. Now, when I would be at someone else's house, I would always go into another room. I never 'hung out', I was ALWAYS covered and discreet, but I just didn't feel comfortable in front of a crowd of people.

I would do like PP stated and use it as an opportunity to teach your boys about the natural process of BFing, in 3 year old terms of course.

 

My apologies I did not understand your words as an obvious joke.

I've had my own home for several years so I understand that beauty and agree with the "my home my rules" thing. I also understand that I cannot control what people do even in the privacy of my own home. If a visitor did not abide by my house rules in front of me/my family they would not be welcome back. They would also have a right to not visit again. For this activity though, I could see a person being offended and I hope Marissa understand that it is a high probability that the breast feeding Mom will be offended or/and hurt.

 

I am not anti-breastfeeding by any means and we are a pretty open family. However, when we go to other people's homes we do things differently out of respect for the host. For example in our house we use the bathroom with the door open. We talk to whoever is using the bathroom and it is generally pretty open with someone coming or going. When we shower or bathe we walk around naked after and dry off and get dressed in front of each other (including our children). All of these things we do out in the open are "natural" and everyone does them. But when we are at other people's houses we close the door to the bathroom and do not intrude on others, we do not walk around naked and we do this out of respect. We believe in being open with our kids about our bodies, and try to let them know there is no shame in it. I don't think asking her to cover a little bit up is a huge deal, it is YOUR level of comfortableness in YOUR home.

 

Sounds like from what you have said that there is more going on than just this issue. Would the same thing bother you if it was your best friend coming over, or is it because you have other issues with her and this is just the last straw.
I don't think it would bother me at all. My kids were all bf and saw me bf the babies. The only time I left the room at someone else's house is when I tandem nursed M&M. You couldn't see any boob but it was just hard to set them up without some boob showing and I don't like to worry that one boob will just be hanging around for a while till I got them latched. But that was me. I think if someone asked me to go to a different room I would have been so insulted. You are in a tough situation, I hope you find an answer that works for you!

 

I breastfed every one of my kids. I never walked around the house without a shirt on and breastfed whenever they needed to eat. I think you've had a lot of great responses here!!! I would certainly try to make it a teachable moment. Know that just because she is not too modest in her own home, doesn't mean that she will flaunt it at yours. I knew my dad was VERY uncomfortable when I would nurse my kids around him so I did make sure I was in the other room, or at least in a position that he wouldn't see anything that he didn't want to see. He never told me he was uncomfortable, but I knew he was. There were some situations that I had to nurse with him in attendence like in a restaurant. I respected that.
I hope the visit goes well and like others have stated, if you make it a big deal - it will be for your kids.

 

I don't think we know the whole situation, either, as someone else mentioned.

Yes, breastfeeding is what boobs are for but whether people like it or not, in America breasts are sexual as someone already pointed out. I freely feed in front of my sisters and my husband. In any other situation I cover up or do it in another room because I personally don't feel that anyone besides my husband needs to see my breasts.

I'm all for your house, your rules, too. You are responsible for your children just as she is responsible for hers, and if you do not want them to see that, that's perfectly fine. Everyone has their own opinion and comfort level and you make the rules for your kids, ESPECIALLY in your own home. If you requested it of her in HER house, she would probably be upset and you couldn't blame, her house, her rules...

If requesting her to cover up AT YOUR HOUSE makes her not want to visit you, then you don't even have to worry about!

 

:No one actually thought any breastfeeding etiquette thread would stay under 2 pages, did they? :ibiggrin:

I have answered this same general way in completely unrelated threads, but...
if I am the host, it's my job to make my guests comfortable. I can't imagine calling them out on any issue that simply made me uncomfortable or inconvenienced or made my children curious (it's also my job to teach my children how to direct & control their curiousity. This will serve them well in MANY life situations). I would (and have) let a nursing mother know there's a recliner in my bedroom that's very comfortable for nursing and a rocker in the girls' room ("if you want an out-of-the-way place,...").

As a guest, I try to watch for cues. I knew it made my FIL weirded -out, so I'd leave the room, just as I did in my own home when they visited us. When we had dinner at a friends and she nursed in the family room, I took the chair next to her & fed my babies. There's a give and take between guest and host, but as a host I would never want my guest to feel like she was in the way, was causing me trouble, etc.

I've always thought the "my house, my rules" saying applied to parent/child situations. The guest, like the customer, is always right. *only exception is speech or actions that are clearly offensive, abusive, aggressive, or dangerous. Even then, I'd first opt for honey rather than vinegar.

p.s. If there is a TS award for most use of parentheses, I clearly am the winner!!

 

OTOH of this issue, my SIL would always go to another room with the boppy pillow and this whole set-up. I told her once she was perfectly welcome to nurse out in the open, it really didn't phase me, and the girls have seen plenty of other people nursing, but that's what she was comfortable with. I kinda felt like it drew more attention to the whole thing, like "HI! I'm going to go nurse now!" Unless your SIL is walking around topless or leaving her shirt wide open, I'm not really sure what the issue is. Most of the time when I've been around friends nursing, it just looks like they are holding the baby close.

 

Marcia, I wish I could give you more than 1 point! :bow2:

 

Well said!

 

I'm kind of curious what you mean by "lets it all hang out". Are we talking the occasional flash of nipple, some side boob, or does she sit there with her boobs hanging out for a while after the feeding is done?

I was always taught by my mom that when you have guests over it's your job to make them as comfortable as possible even if that meant putting up with the occasional discomfort of having others in your home. Plus, it seems like you invited her over and you already know she nurses so if I were her I would find it kind of rude to be honest.

 

This is why I love TS. I open a thread like this with an honest question, and think to myself, "Well dang. I have no idea how I would handle that." Then I read threads and my opinion sways one way. Then other threads, and my opinion goes the other way. But to make a short story long...I think Marcia nailed it. I think my opinion is set now! :laughing:

She is a guest in your home and you should do whatever you can to make her comfortable. And if you become uncomfortable, simply remove yourself or your boys and let it be.

 

I agree with Jenn. I would tell your sister in law that your boys are very curious and if she could be discrete when breastfeeding you would really appreciate it because you don't feel they are at the right age to teach them about breastfeeding. I don't know.....that is just how I would handle it. My little brother was born when my older brother was 17. My mom never nursed my little brother in front of my older brother (the 17 year old) because my older brother was uncomfortable with it. He didn't want to see his mom breastfeed. He married a nurse who extended breastfed all of their kids and he was very supportive of her. He just didn't want to see his mom do it LOL. Good luck!

 

What age is "the right age" to teach a child about breast feeding? I just don't understand the need to wait to expose them to this way of feeding a baby. My boy was breast fed for a short time but never saw me breast feed but he knew and knows it is a way Mommy's feed their babies. He might have shown a curiosity when he saw Mommy's feed their babies but he never tried to expose her or pull a woman top off because he saw a breast feeding woman.

I understand your Mom respecting your 17 year old brothers comfort level. I mean that is his mother and what teen wants to see his mother breasts?

But a 3 year old is not a 17 year old and if they are never exposed to a woman breast feeding at this age in this type of controlled environment it will only possibly be less appropriate with their actions/questions when it happens out in public.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask SIL to BF modestly if she starts to and is not showing modesty. I would tell her how your boys have been acting when they see you naked and tell her that you are trying to teach them about modesty and privacy. I would not want to have her hide away in a room though because it will just make it more of a scene.

ETA:
expose :rofl: I used the word 2Xs in a thread about "exposing" oneself while breast feeding and only noticed after I clicked post... well I thought it was funny

 

Would the Duggers allow you to openly Bf at THEIR house ??? (good point)


YOUR HOUSE YOUR RULES. Your house is not the mall, a park bench, or anywhere else. It is YOUR house. You decide the rules.

You mentioned that there is more to the story and I'm sure part of you might NOT WANT her to visit anyways. You might want her to be offended and not come, and then you have a reason for uninviting her. We all have difficult people in our lives and sadly some of them are family. You get to decide how you want to deal with someone you dislike. Often limiting the time with them is the best option.


You were aware you were going to get others opinions right ???

Heather

 

I have been away from TS for a while now, and I just had a chance to read this thread. I find it very interesting.

As for the question the OP had, I agree with some of the other people. It is your house. You do what makes you comfortable. But, as others have said, be prepared for your SIL to possibly be hurt or offended or even angry.

I also whole heartedly agree that this is a teaching moment for your children. If BF is presented to them as natural that's how they will see it. I would consider it a wonderful chance for young boys to know the primary function of breasts. I personally think that if more young men were exposed to breastfeeding at a young age they would have a much healthier attitude about the female body. I have two boys, and I want to make sure that from an early age they learn to be comfortable with breastfeeding. And I hope that as they grow into men they will have this lesson instilled within them so that they understand that the female body is a beautiful, sacred, amazing thing that can both have and feed babies.

It is my opinion that while breasts are indeed sexualized in our culture they are first and foremost for feeding babies. The irony is that, unfortunately, due to our obsession with breasts as sexual objects, we hide away their original purpose which I think just encourages the status quo of the over- sexualization of the female body.


However, having said that, I understand the concern with modesty. My gut reaction has been to feel uncomfortable about seeing a woman nurse around children or in public. It's not what most of are are used to, and it's certainly not what I was used to growing up. So my first reaction when I encountered nursing moms who did not hide under blankets was to feel uncomfortable.

But having been around many nursing moms, and having been one myself, I have come to believe that it's a very wonderful thing for a woman to nurse in public, in other's homes, etc. WOmen who nurse in public pave the way for making breast feeding more acceptable in our culture.

 

This is a hot subject...but I would never ask someone to cover themselves while feeding a baby, in or out of my house. I think its sad that breast feeding is not seen as the beautiful thing it is, and all about sex. Its seen on TV..facebook..and now in homes with children. My almost 7 yr olds know what breast feeding is..and know that I breast fed them. I covered up the best I could when I was doing it..and would even ask the person I was at if they wanted me to go somewhere else, but sometimes its an emergency the baby is screaming and you gotta whip them out.

I say do what you feel is right, but if the mother gets upset..then be ready for it. I was never asked to cover up at anyways house, for that I am thankful for..because I do believe I would have left if I did. BUT thats my opinion and my choice..just like its your choice to ask in your house.

Good luck.

Brandy

 

Just adding another $.02 with everyone else. LOL I remember when I was breastfeeding Sarah, one of Dh's friends saw me sitting in the cow barn and the county fair (we were showing that day) and I was feeding Sarah but had a blanket drapped over me. Still when he turned and saw me and realized what I was doing he turned about three shades of red and turned back around the other way. I joked to him not to be embarrassed because "These things are working breast now and not decorations". I always tried my best to be decreat for the comfort of others, but honestly feeding a baby is just the sweetest most natural thing in the world to me. That being said though, if I had to pick sides then I would say especially since you already anticipate this being an issue, that it is your house and you should be comfortable in your own home so be upfront with her that this is an issue with you. This way you are true to yourself and how you feel the situation needs to be handled around your children. I think that is the most important issue in all of this and she should understand that you dont want your children seeing her exposed. To make it a good visit, though, I would have this conversation before she arrives.

Mary

 

All I can think of after reading this thread is an incident this summer with my sister and her oldest. She has three boys--ages 6, 4 and 2 at the time--and a DD the same age as my boys. My sister had mentioned that she always nurses her baby under a blanket and that her middle son had caught a glimpse once but overall she thinks the boys have no idea what she's doing.

So we were at a family reunion, and at one point her oldest son puts his hand up in front of his mouth and stage-whispers to me, "I have to tell ya something about our little sister. Our mom NEVER feeds her!" I said, "Oh really? Well, how does the baby stay alive if she never eats anything?" And he said, "Well ... our mom gives her vitamins sometimes."

I realize some see it different if it's a sibling, but I think it's great for kids to know from a young age how babies are fed. And I do agree with Marcia about trying to make your guest comfortable in an innocent situation like this.

 

Just saw this article posted on FB today, and I thought it was kind of relevant to the discussion.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/06/08/nursing-in-public-americans-need-to-get-over-their-embarrassmen/?sms_ss=email

 

That kid will be shocked to learn the truth.
I think it is easier to learn about things earlier then it is something you've always known and don't remember being told it.

 

That's a great article. thank you for sharing.

 

Thats a great article.

Brandy

 

I'm not sure I agree that it is an "American" thing. Maybe it is prevalent in America, but there are certainly other cultures that are just as modest if not more so. For many, it is religious more than cultural.

For me modesty is this:

People often say when talking about those with high standards of modesty that they are ashamed of their bodies. I am not ashamed of my body. I believe that the human body is beautifully and wonderfully created. I believe it is to be treated with honor and treasured as something special. Because of this, I believe that there are certain areas of my body that are meant to be seen by only certain people. In other words, only certain people get the privilege of seeing these parts. They are special and I will only share them with those with whom I share certain relationships. This includes my DH (obviously), my kids at a young age (I'm already starting to cover up in front of DS more), my mom, sister, and BF (all three only in certain circumstances), and my doctors.

For me, the more people I allow access to these special parts of my body, the less they are valued. And, I don't want them to loose that value - especially for my DH's sake. He knows that when he sees me undress, it is something that I share with him alone. The casual act of changing clothes becomes intimate. Because my modesty level would not even allow me to show my tummy, just a glimpse of my twin skin is special to my DH because he knows that is something only he and my children see. (Well, my doctor, but that is completely different, and mom, sis, and BF, but only for shopping purposes.) The point is, it isn't shame, but the exact opposite that influences my level of modesty.

As for kids knowing how BF works, I am all for educating. But, it is possible to teach this without them actually seeing it. Just as it is possible for an older boy to know about menstruation without actually seeing it. And, it is also very different when it is your own children. I wouldn't care one bit for my kids to see me BFing because we already have an intimate relationship. But, I wouldn't want them to watch someone else doing it. And, just as it is every parent's right to feed their children the way they chose, I believe it is my right to teach my children what I believe about modesty. In public, it is easy as distracting them or moving away. But, in the privacy of my own home, I would have to create a scene by getting up and leaving the room. So, I would chose to talk to the nursing mother beforehand about our modesty standards in our home.

 

I totally agree that it's not just an American thing. There are many countries where women feel the need to cover when breastfeeding. I think for example about many Arab counties where extended breastfeeding (up till age 2 or longer) is often the norm, but so is remaining covered while doing so.

IMO, I think what makes it odd about people being offended by breastfeeding in public in the US is that TV shows, trips to the grocery store, going swimming, etc often expose us to more exposed flesh than a mom breastfeeding does. I don't watch much TV, but all I have to do is stand in line at the grocery store and look over at the magazine covers and can see more flesh than if someone were breastfeeding.

I feel that as a nation we have such a double standard when it comes to modesty. And that's why I think it's so sad that breastfeeding is hidden from public view. It seems like in our society the only time breasts are hidden is during breastfeeding. lol.

I think you are right about the religious thing too. This is why many people feel the need to nurse in private.

Although there are many ways of looking at it from a religious perspective. For some people that means being covered or not allowing others to ever see breastfeeding. But there are deeply religious folks who don't feel their bodies can be devalued by others. I think that's an important thing to add because not all believers interpret modesty in the same way. In fact, some churches welcome breastfeeding in church services.

I too believe the body is wonderfully created. And for me how it is exposed is all about context. I would feel uncomfortable about flashing people or wearing overly revealing tops. But breastfeeding is something all together different then that. The context is about feeding a baby.

As for children, they are going to notice because that is what children do. They are curious beings. That is part of what makes them such amazing, loving, non-judgemental creatures.

I am not trying to argue with you here. I am just wanting to add that people who don't feel the need to nurse in private may in fact be very modest and religious people.

 

:bow2: GandEmom! :bow2:

Stacy - even when we have opposite viewpoints, I really respect your thougthfulness and the care you put into all your decisions.

While you've made your point quite eloquently here, I still think a guest treated that way (confined to nursing in private, or left alone in a room after kids are shooed out) might feel offended and feel that her BFing is being treated as something shameful and dirty, despite your assurances to the contrary. I totally believe you're sincere when you talk about your respect for and wonder at the human body - but many, many people are going to feel that it's being treated as shameful and dirty when expected to cover up (and not just in the context of BFing - plenty of kids raised with those ideas of modesty do come away feeling bad about the body, despite the best efforts of their parents).

Also, again, it's always worth turning it around. If someone believed that formula was an insult to the sanctity of the human body (man-made substitute for what nature provides etc etc - I don't think this way, but there are militant folks out there who do), would it be OK for them to isolate a FFing guest who just wanted to feed her baby?

 

IMO, yes if the host didn't feel comfortable for their children to see a formula being fed. Again, the host's house, the host's rules.

 

I think Holly's formula analogy is spot on. There is a huge double standard with breastfeeding.

I have a totally different take on this. I don't personally see access as associated with value. People have access to my face, and it hasn't made my face is less valuable. In fact, my breasts are probably a lot more valuable right now since the baby has lots of access to them and needs them to grow.

 

I'm just curious if you smoke or not and if not, if a guest at your house was a smoker and wanted to, would you let them smoke inside just to be a good host?

 

The problem with that analogy is that second hand smoke is a real health concern; there's no such thing as second hand breastfeeding (and if there was it would probably have positive health benefits rather than negative ones ).

 

:laughing: After we had the babies, DH had a long stretch of not getting sick at all, and always used to joke that it must somehow be because of the BFing!

SnowPumpkin - check out the s/o thread for a thorough discussion of the differences between BFing and smoking.

 

I completely agree that, as a nation, we have a double standard. But, I can only speak for myself and my family. I have a higher standard of modesty than the average Joe. Therefore, I see nothing inconsistent with me asking someone to cover up while they breastfeed in my house. I can't control what the rest of society does, but I can try to set an example in my own home.

Also, one problem with the idea that we see more on TV, etc., and therefore should not be bothered by BFing in public is that I can turn off the TV and I would NEVER allow my kids to watch something that had nudity in it on TV. I don't always have much choice when things happen IRL. Now, would I freak out and run away if my kids and I came across someone BFing in public? No. That would be silly. But, I would calmly explain that she is feeding her baby, and try to divert their attention. If they continued to be curious, I'd probably tell them something along the lines of, "Feeding your baby that way is a very special time between a mommy and her baby. Why don't we give them some privacy?" (said with a smile) and then answer any questions they might have out of view.

As for your last statement that I quoted. Once again, I agree about the double standard. But, my preference would be to go the opposite way and start having more modesty as a nation in general. But, like I said, that is my preference based on my beliefs about modesty and not necessarily something I expect to happen. And, the preference is completely selfish because it would make instilling modesty in my kids so much easier if they didn't see our standards constantly contradicted by society. But, what can I expect when I'm such an oddball?