If you had to vote today

QUOTE(MamaKim @ Jul 12 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]327754[/snapback]
I agree, Craig. Huckabee does have a point, though, and it's something I've been saying for years. People in this country lament the health care crisis, but when confronted with having to change their own behavior to improve their own health, a lot would rather just pop a pill. Many of the health care issues we face today are of our own making, at least partially: obesity, smoking, improper diet, etc. However, I think it's a poor way for Huckabee to try and garner any votes. And while I don't especially care for Michael Moore, I do applaud him making SickO to bring attention to the national health care crisis. But Huckabee oversimplifies, imo. There is way more to our health care problems besides people who do not take proper care of their bodies. There is also abuse by insurance companies, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies too. So he really does a disservice by saying this.


I agree, well said!

Huckabee had a valid point, but I think he could have found a better way to state it. At least he said it better than PETA, who basically told Moore to lose weight by eliminating meat from his diet (rephrasing, it wasn't that nice).

Unfortunately, Moore turns off a lot of people. He manipulates the facts to make his points, which could be made using truthful figures and less "in your face" tactics. The hypocrisy of it all lies in the fact that he blasts the government, but somehow thinks that government is the solution, especially when it comes to the health care crisis. I think there are a lot of better ways of pointing out the problems...problems that every administration and branch of government has contributed to, instead of outright lying and placing blame where it doesn't always belong. He really does a disservice to his cause and it doesn't help that his lifestyle isn't exactly up to the same standards that he expects out of the rest of us (which I've found is typical among that crowd). You have to take him with a grain of salt, IMHO.

Anyway, Kurt Loder (on MTV.com) has a great article/review of the movie. I think it was posted last week (?) and while it is long, it's enjoyable and very informative. Definitely a must read for anyone thinking of seeing the movie.

I've been doing some reading on Huckabee. He seems like an okay guy, but I'm afraid people like him (and others) are really not going to get much attention compared to the higher profile candidates. That's what usually happens anyway.

 

QUOTE(4lilmonkeys @ Jul 12 2007, 12:05 PM) [snapback]327831[/snapback]
belong. He really does a disservice to his cause and it doesn't help that his lifestyle isn't exactly up to the same standards that he expects out of the rest of us (which I've found is typical among that crowd).


You lost me here. Not sure what you mean by the standards that he expects of the rest of us? And "typical" among what crowd?

 

Let's see...
(these are all from various websites...some may be reliable, some may not be since I didn't find actual news stories)

As of 2005, he owns/owned over 2,000 shares of Haliburton stock, a company he vilified mercilessly in F9/11. He also owns/owned stock in Boeing, Sonoco, Best Foods, Eli Lily and Bank One.

He claims to be a "working class guy," but travles in private jets and SUV's. He's attacked us "regular" folks for damaging the environment, though. To go with that, he claims to be all for affirmative action (Stupid White Men) and calls the rest of us racists, yet among his staff isn't a single African American.

I believe at some point, he was sending his daughter (?) to private school while telling the rest of us how great public schools are and how we should be sending our children there. It's good enough for us, but not for him?

In January of 2005, apparently a bodygaurd employed by Moore was arrested for carrying an unliscenced fire arm (I got this from the NRA website, so who knows...there are no links to the actual story).

And then, there's Al Gore.
Mr. Reduce Your Carbon Footprint and his 20 room mansion that consumes twenty times more energy in a year than the average American household?

The Live Earth concert last week...you don't want to damage the environment, but you call millions of people to gather in one location, which requires airplanes, cars, and buses. And then there's lights and equipment...television networks....how exactly is any of this good for the environment?

None of these things are a crime of course, but it's mighty hypocritical. If you're going to tell people how to live...how to spend THEIR money, then you should be doing it yourself. Especially if you're making money off of it.

Editing to add...
I should say that I have absolutely no problem with anyone being wealthy. If you earn it, it's your's...enjoy it! The problem I have is with the "do as I say, not as I do" attitude among the Hollywood/political elite. Moore basically makes his money off of lambasting the rich. I don't care if Leonardo DiCaprio owns his own island or flies in a private jet. The problem *I* have is with the "you shouldn't, but I can" idea. Either it's okay, or it isn't. Put your money where your mouth is, or be quiet.

I'm not saying all liberals are like this. Bono isn't exactly what I'd label "liberal" but a lot of his ideas aren't exactly aligned with mine. So, fore the sake of argument...
Anyway, here's a guy who's doing the right thing. He talks about peace and equality. He talks about AIDS. If you follow the money trail, that's what he gives to, that's who he spends his time with. He wants people to get along, so he reaches across the aisle to Bush when many in Hollywood wouldn't even open the door, because he knows Bush is the key to getting what he wants done. If he talks about Global Warming, he's out there doing HIS part...not for the photo op, but because it's the right thing to do.

 

My big problem with Michael Moore is that he encourages bad science and sloppy reasoning. His movies are all very shiny and appear to be well researched and the messages contained within appear irrefutably logical. Where it breaks down is, that upon critical examination, his research is spurious and just as one-sided as he claims his "opponents" views to be. I do not think his motive is to create awareness, but rather to tap into the consciousness of people who are already mistrustful, take advantage of their desire to believe, and make a few headlines and dollars on the side.

 

The one good thing I do have to say about Michael Moore is he does get people talking about the issues out there. His methods and tactics may be questionable but he does bring these discussions into our living rooms which is a good thing.

 

QUOTE(MamaKim @ Jul 12 2007, 01:02 PM) [snapback]328037[/snapback]
The one good thing I do have to say about Michael Moore is he does get people talking about the issues out there. His methods and tactics may be questionable but he does bring these discussions into our living rooms which is a good thing.



Okay, I'll grudgingly and with a :girl_devil: icon give him that one

 

QUOTE(4lilmonkeys @ Jul 12 2007, 12:51 PM) [snapback]327899[/snapback]
Let's see...
(these are all from various websites...some may be reliable, some may not be since I didn't find actual news stories)

As of 2005, he owns/owned over 2,000 shares of Haliburton stock, a company he vilified mercilessly in F9/11. He also owns/owned stock in Boeing, Sonoco, Best Foods, Eli Lily and Bank One.

He claims to be a "working class guy," but travles in private jets and SUV's. He's attacked us "regular" folks for damaging the environment, though. To go with that, he claims to be all for affirmative action (Stupid White Men) and calls the rest of us racists, yet among his staff isn't a single African American.

I believe at some point, he was sending his daughter (?) to private school while telling the rest of us how great public schools are and how we should be sending our children there. It's good enough for us, but not for him?

In January of 2005, apparently a bodygaurd employed by Moore was arrested for carrying an unliscenced fire arm (I got this from the NRA website, so who knows...there are no links to the actual story).

And then, there's Al Gore.
Mr. Reduce Your Carbon Footprint and his 20 room mansion that consumes twenty times more energy in a year than the average American household?

The Live Earth concert last week...you don't want to damage the environment, but you call millions of people to gather in one location, which requires airplanes, cars, and buses. And then there's lights and equipment...television networks....how exactly is any of this good for the environment?

None of these things are a crime of course, but it's mighty hypocritical. If you're going to tell people how to live...how to spend THEIR money, then you should be doing it yourself. Especially if you're making money off of it.

Editing to add...
I should say that I have absolutely no problem with anyone being wealthy. If you earn it, it's your's...enjoy it! The problem I have is with the "do as I say, not as I do" attitude among the Hollywood/political elite. Moore basically makes his money off of lambasting the rich. I don't care if Leonardo DiCaprio owns his own island or flies in a private jet. The problem *I* have is with the "you shouldn't, but I can" idea. Either it's okay, or it isn't. Put your money where your mouth is, or be quiet.

I'm not saying all liberals are like this. Bono isn't exactly what I'd label "liberal" but a lot of his ideas aren't exactly aligned with mine. So, fore the sake of argument...
Anyway, here's a guy who's doing the right thing. He talks about peace and equality. He talks about AIDS. If you follow the money trail, that's what he gives to, that's who he spends his time with. He wants people to get along, so he reaches across the aisle to Bush when many in Hollywood wouldn't even open the door, because he knows Bush is the key to getting what he wants done. If he talks about Global Warming, he's out there doing HIS part...not for the photo op, but because it's the right thing to do.


I didn't know anything personally about Michael Moore. I just really enjoy watching him and l like his movies. I would love to see someone confront him on some of those things you just described. Has anyone?

And yeah, I'm kind of tired of wealthy famous people telling me how to sacrifice for the sake of whatever cause they are plugging. I get what you are saying.

BTW- he pretty much denies most of the things you mention up top so maybe the sources you quote aren't that reliable.

 

QUOTE(Jersey_Girls @ Jul 12 2007, 05:02 PM) [snapback]328466[/snapback]
I would love to see someone confront him on some of those things you just described. Has anyone?


I'm not sure he's actually debated someone publicly. It would be interesting to see footage of it. I'd love to get my husband (chemical engineer) and my uncle (civil/structural engineer) in a room with him. They'd eat him alive on his 9-11 tower collapse theory.

 

I too enjoy Michael Moore....he does bring up interesting stuff. I know he debated with Dr. Gulpa from CNN the other night but went to sleep, so not sure what was debated.

 

QUOTE(Jersey_Girls @ Jul 12 2007, 05:02 PM) [snapback]328466[/snapback]
I didn't know anything personally about Michael Moore. I just really enjoy watching him and l like his movies. I would love to see someone confront him on some of those things you just described. Has anyone?

And yeah, I'm kind of tired of wealthy famous people telling me how to sacrifice for the sake of whatever cause they are plugging. I get what you are saying.

BTW- he pretty much denies most of the things you mention up top so maybe the sources you quote aren't that reliable.


Well, he's been confronted once or twice. Right before (or after?) F9/11 came out, another guy made a movie called Michael Moore Hates America. I think he basically used the same tactics Moore used in order to get his interviews for Roger & Me and Bowling for Columbine (if you'd like to see someone else's take on that movie, citing his use of manipulating facts, you can check out www.bowlingfortruth.com). Not sure what ever came of the movie, but I'm pretty sure Moore avoided his questions and requests for interviews (it's www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com, if it even still exists).

The latest was challenging Fred Thompson to a debate and then backing down at the last minute. This has happened several times since 2004. They say yes, Moore backs down. He's never publicly debated anyone...he usually just does interviews that favor him and his agenda. I hear he's pretty strict about what can be asked as well. And yes, he denies any and all critisim leveled at him...sometimes vehemently (as in, to the point of cursing out his detractors) so.

So, I'm guessing the examples I've provided are true. I always feel like the people who yell the loudest probably have the most to hide. If he were being completely honest, he'd probably have no problem opening up his life to the public. But, it's his right not to, so....

 

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." - Thomas Jefferson

I know I'm probably beating that dead armadillo someone's neighbor found, but I just ran across a really interesting video about what the Federal Reserve actually is. It's a 3 1/2 (don't panic!) hour streaming video so you can't really rewind it, but it's well worth the watch. (There's some meaty stuff in the first few minutes for those of us who laugh at being able to sit still for more than 10 minutes!) Even if you dislike the source, the information in the video is very thought provoking (and not in a conspiracy theorist sort of way! ).

Go towards the bottom half of the page to the bright yellow The Money Masters and click on the "Streaming" link.
The Money Masters

 

QUOTE(Orestia @ Jul 15 2007, 12:48 AM) [snapback]331090[/snapback]
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." - Thomas Jefferson

I know I'm probably beating that dead armadillo someone's neighbor found, but I just ran across a really interesting video about what the Federal Reserve actually is. It's a 3 1/2 (don't panic!) hour streaming video so you can't really rewind it, but it's well worth the watch. (There's some meaty stuff in the first few minutes for those of us who laugh at being able to sit still for more than 10 minutes!) Even if you dislike the source, the information in the video is very thought provoking (and not in a conspiracy theorist sort of way! ).

Go towards the bottom half of the page to the bright yellow The Money Masters and click on the "Streaming" link.
The Money Masters



Thanks I put Dh on it

Alyson

 

QUOTE(AWerner @ Jul 5 2007, 10:12 PM) [snapback]318997[/snapback]
I know the election is still pretty far away but we are getting excited already in our house for a change. So I was curious who TS moms and dads are liking so far.

go girl