If you had to vote today

Sorry, I can't help it...QUOTE
So you say we should kill all the unwanted kids in the world?
who said anything about killing unwanted kids. It is exactly comments like this that keep us from being able to discuss abortions here. Instead of keeping it civil one side calls the other side kid killers and murders and then the fight is on.

 

QUOTE(Tasha @ Jul 11 2007, 09:57 AM) [snapback]326195[/snapback]
I think that you can "protect" yourself and your daughter's "choice" all you want, but people don't just wake up and are pregnant. It takes some actions to become pregnant. We have to take responsibility for our actions.


I agree.

QUOTE(Trish_e @ Jul 11 2007, 10:35 AM) [snapback]326252[/snapback]
I'm sorry but if someone thinks they're mature enough to have sex, then they're mature enough to take responsibility of the consequences that come with those actions. Abortion is plain wrong! Its murder! And I will never vote for a single person who thinks its right.


I agree again!


Also, BRANDY, we have to run!! I can make posters!!!! LOL!!!!!

Oh and can we open a thread just to debate abortion? You know, one with a big fat disclaimer?!?! I think that would be great! Then you knew what you were going into before you go in... since 90% of political debates on this forum turn to abortion anyway! Just my thoughts!

 

You know what.....the only time there is ever a post saying we should calm down talking about something is right after I post something that some people dont like. I mean this went on for about 10 pages and nothing was said about not talking about abortion until I posted!! But now you may have to shut it down?? I guess its okay for them to say anything they want but if you have a different view, its "oh whoa calm down there" You know, the other side of fence is allowed to have just as many heated opinons as the other.

 

QUOTE(Donita @ Jul 11 2007, 01:16 PM) [snapback]326325[/snapback]
Yes sir :sorry:

hehe I wondered if I'd ever have the chance to use this one



LOL, Donita, your cute!

 

QUOTE(HeyThere @ Jul 11 2007, 12:51 PM) [snapback]326380[/snapback]
Oh and can we open a thread just to debate abortion? You know, one with a big fat disclaimer?!?! I think that would be great! Then you knew what you were going into before you go in... since 90% of political debates on this forum turn to abortion anyway! Just my thoughts!


If you are going to do taht, I suggest you take it to the Cornucopia. That would be a better place to discuss the "hot topics".

QUOTE
You know what.....the only time there is ever a post saying we should calm down talking about something is right after I post something that some people dont like. I mean this went on for about 10 pages and nothing was said about not talking about abortion until I posted!! But now you may have to shut it down?? I guess its okay for them to say anything they want but if you have a different view, its "oh whoa calm down there" You know, the other side of fence is allowed to have just as many heated opinons as the other.


Typically, "hot topics" are not advised on the open board for this very reason. We do have the Cornucopia that is open for Rewards Members and Mods where the more debated topics are discussed. For more info on RM you can go here.

 

QUOTE
So you say we should kill all the unwanted kids in the world? Thats very sad.



That is just funny because you know I didnt mean that. You are just trying to spin my words without answering my questions.

 

QUOTE(HeyThere @ Jul 11 2007, 02:51 PM) [snapback]326380[/snapback]
Oh and can we open a thread just to debate abortion? You know, one with a big fat disclaimer?!?! I think that would be great! Then you knew what you were going into before you go in... since 90% of political debates on this forum turn to abortion anyway! Just my thoughts!


It's not even allowed on the Corn anymore. It's way too hot a topic, people get hurt, people have left TS over things said on abortion threads.

 

QUOTE(OneBoyOneGirl @ Jul 11 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]326381[/snapback]
You know what.....the only time there is ever a post saying we should calm down talking about something is right after I post something that some people dont like. I mean this went on for about 10 pages and nothing was said about not talking about abortion until I posted!! But now you may have to shut it down?? I guess its okay for them to say anything they want but if you have a different view, its "oh whoa calm down there" You know, the other side of fence is allowed to have just as many heated opinons as the other.



This is because it REALLY always turns into a ugly debate. This is a very personal choice for everyone and most people feel very strong about their believes.

 

QUOTE(OneBoyOneGirl @ Jul 11 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]326381[/snapback]
You know what.....the only time there is ever a post saying we should calm down talking about something is right after I post something that some people dont like. I mean this went on for about 10 pages and nothing was said about not talking about abortion until I posted!! But now you may have to shut it down?? I guess its okay for them to say anything they want but if you have a different view, its "oh whoa calm down there" You know, the other side of fence is allowed to have just as many heated opinons as the other.


It's not you, it was way back when someone first brought it up on this thread someone said it shouldn't be discussed. I kept my mouth shut (I'm on your side of the fence, BTW) even though I did have strong feelings about what someone posted.

 

I dont think it was mentioned by admin until after I posted. I think it a mod that said it. Maybe someone complained, I dont know.

 

So back to the topic of eroding civil liberties....

National ID Card / Using SSN as national identification

It's not really much of a "hot" topic, but with all of the identity theft going around, do you think maybe it SHOULD be?

 

wow who knew my innocent post would lead to all this!

 

QUOTE
National ID Card / Using SSN as national identification

It's not really much of a "hot" topic, but with all of the identity theft going around, do you think maybe it SHOULD be?


DH and I both agree that there should be a Nathional ID #/card. There is NO reason taht your SSN should be used by every Joe Schmo Company when you sign up for phone service, cable/satellite, or a library card--yes even our library asked for it!!

 

QUOTE(OneBoyOneGirl @ Jul 11 2007, 02:12 PM) [snapback]326420[/snapback]
I dont think it was mentioned by admin until after I posted. I think it a mod that said it. Maybe someone complained, I dont know.



I responded to your PM, but your post had nothing to do with my warning. You're reading too much into the specific posting order. Years of experience of running message boards has shown me that we simply can not conduct a discussion on abortion on these boards without infuriating one or both sides and so we don't allow it in the public forums. If folks want to discuss abortion in Cornucopia they can do so, but I'm requesting again that nobody - mods included - turn this political discussion into a debate on pro-choice vs. pro-life.

 

QUOTE(Monika @ Jul 11 2007, 03:34 AM) [snapback]325588[/snapback]
It's just a straw poll. Doesn't mean all too much. Even if Ron Paul leads. :icon_biggrin:


And maybe if "the media" stops trying to keep him out and misconstruing his statements we'd see how he really could spank the other other candidates in this election

Alyson

 

QUOTE(AWerner @ Jul 11 2007, 12:17 PM) [snapback]326427[/snapback]
wow who knew my innocent post would lead to all this!


I knew!! I like a good debate, but people get so emotional...

So anyway, about that social security/ national id card thing... what are you talking about? I'm not in the loop on that one!

 

We cant discuss abortion anywhere on TS. I agree with that actually. I hate talking about abortion...because I hate abortion.


Lets get back on to another subject.

Is immigration a topic anyone is looking to vote on or against?

I heard something that might or might not be true..and will have to look it up.

I heard that Hillary wants to make it were if an illegal immigrant runs away from the police for 5 years then they are automatically to become American citizens. Again I dont know if that is true..does anyone else?

Brandy

QUOTE(HeyThere @ Jul 11 2007, 02:22 PM) [snapback]326436[/snapback]
I knew!! I like a good debate, but people get so emotional...

So anyway, about that social security/ national id card thing... what are you talking about? I'm not in the loop on that one!



Me either..I need more information...

Brandy

 

QUOTE(AWerner @ Jul 11 2007, 02:22 PM) [snapback]326435[/snapback]
And maybe if "the media" stops trying to keep him out and misconstruing his statements we'd see how he really could spank the other other candidates in this election

Alyson



I agree. Here is what I posted a while back in the Corn about media.

QUOTE
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18436681/

Ron Paul hands down won that debate when I looked at all the polls. BUT the mainstream media still continues to ignore him. I do think the poll has some validity though.......since it is hard to double vote (they record your IP) and other candidate voters would be active too. It shows that if the mainstream media would give him more time he could definitely win the Republican nomination.
But the media seems to have an agenda......just because he is anti-authoritarian and anti-NWO they basically want to blacklist him. Everyone else in the debate were empty suits......I guess they want some right wing bible belt nutjob like Bush on the Republican ticket (even though Chris Mathews is supposedly against the war).
If more people knew about him he could definitely win this thing. But the media decided that the public should only know about Guliani, McCain, and Romney.Why do people even vote at all? Why not let the media decide who they like best...and then they should take their toys and go play.

 

QUOTE(missmomoftwins @ Jul 11 2007, 07:19 PM) [snapback]326428[/snapback]
DH and I both agree that there should be a Nathional ID #/card. There is NO reason taht your SSN should be used by every Joe Schmo Company when you sign up for phone service, cable/satellite, or a library card--yes even our library asked for it!!



well , I think nat'l ID cards are bad news, state ID should be more than sufficient and I just think there shouldn't be ss req'd at all technically it isn't req'd to sign up for one, it is just highly "recommended"...
kinda like income taxes, but don't get me started.. watch: "America Freedom to Fascism"

Alyson

ps how's that for changing the subject?

 

QUOTE(a1cbrandy @ Jul 11 2007, 03:26 PM) [snapback]326443[/snapback]
Is immigration a topic anyone is looking to vote on or against?

This is definitely something I'm looking for in a candidate. I believe that we need to tighten our boarders and sent ALL illegals back home. NO AMNESTY! If someone wants to come into our country thats fine but do it legally.

 

QUOTE(missmomoftwins @ Jul 11 2007, 07:19 PM) [snapback]326428[/snapback]
DH and I both agree that there should be a Nathional ID #/card. There is NO reason taht your SSN should be used by every Joe Schmo Company when you sign up for phone service, cable/satellite, or a library card--yes even our library asked for it!!



A National ID card...not a bad idea. Right now, there a issue in the state of Ohio where someone stole a computer chip or something like that and has hundreds of thousands of Ohion's SSN. Not good.

 

At this point as long as our new president's name has nothing to do with vegetation I think we'd be alright!

 

QUOTE
At this point as long as our new president's name has nothing to do with vegetation I think we'd be alright!


:rotflmbo:

 

Okay, I get the national ID card thing now and I think that is a no go. Why, if e all have state id's? That is just another number to remember.

I know a social security # is optional to give out when signing up for stuff, but then you usually have to leave a deposit. Right?

QUOTE(Donita @ Jul 11 2007, 12:37 PM) [snapback]326462[/snapback]
At this point as long as our new president's name has nothing to do with vegetation I think we'd be alright!

:rotflmbo:

 

QUOTE(HeyThere @ Jul 11 2007, 02:22 PM) [snapback]326436[/snapback]
So anyway, about that social security/ national id card thing... what are you talking about? I'm not in the loop on that one!


This is what I'm looking for.

QUOTE
“National ID cards are not proper in a free society,” Paul stated. “This is America, not Soviet Russia. The federal government should never be allowed to demand papers from American citizens, and it certainly has no constitutional authority to do so.”


http://www.house.gov/paul/press/press2004/pr120704.htm

 

Immigration is a biiiig topic in my family. My MIL is a naturalized citizen and mention of the "immigration reform" bill was the first time I'd ever heard her use language that would peel paint off a fence. (To say that she was against it would do a grave injustice to the word "understatement.")

I'm for streamlining our immigration and enforcing the laws already in place. Our problem is that our government body has gotten so lazy and bloated that it just doesn't follow the rules that we have. The government tries to make up NEW rules and laws and then it turns into one giant cluster fark. I'm still on the fence myself about abolishing citizenship by birthright, but I'm starting to lean towards abolishing it. As long as illegal immigrants can get in and STAY in through an anchor baby... then it's definitely not going to help our problem.

Edit to add thoughts on national id card:

A national ID card is a scary thing for many reasons. Primarily, that once those go into effect, what control do we have over what personal information can be accessed through them? I'm already on the FBI's list of people who have purchased books at bookstores. I shudder to think what else they want to know about me. That I prefer Tampax to Playtex? No thanks. Do not want.

 

QUOTE(AWerner @ Jul 11 2007, 03:17 PM) [snapback]326427[/snapback]
wow who knew my innocent post would lead to all this!


Ha! If I didn't know better, I would have thought Mandylouwho started this! Where is she?

 

QUOTE(Orestia @ Jul 11 2007, 03:10 PM) [snapback]326545[/snapback]
I'm for streamlining our immigration and enforcing the laws already in place. Our problem is that our government body has gotten so lazy and bloated that it just doesn't follow the rules that we have. The government tries to make up NEW rules and laws and then it turns into one giant cluster fark. I'm still on the fence myself about abolishing citizenship by birthright, but I'm starting to lean towards abolishing it. As long as illegal immigrants can get in and STAY in through an anchor baby... then it's definitely not going to help our problem.


Exactly!

Unfortunately immigration refrom is one of the issues people really don't want to touch on, at the risk of being labeled a racist. Plus, it's a "wedge issue" which means that more than likely, it won't get handled properly for some time to come. I'd really like to see a candidate come up with a good plan to not only curb the amount of illegals entering this country, but to take care of the issues we have with the ones here now, using laws already in place. I'm all for immigration as long as it's legal.

As a side note, thank you for shutting down the abortion debate before it got really bad. I've never seen one end well. Everyone has hurt feelings and takes things way too personally. It'd be great to be able to have that debate, but IMHO it's just not possible on a forum full of hormonal mamas.

 

He's not a major candidate, but Mike Huckabee got into the news a little yesterday with pointed comments made against filmmaker Michael Moore and his new movie, Sicko.

"Michael Moore is an example of why the health care system costs more in this country," said Huckabee. While he didn't clarify his comments for reporters, he went on to talk about his own experiences in losing 100 pounds over a several year period and how that helped lower his health costs, implying that Moore's weight was a drain on health care costs.

Moore may not have a huge base of fans, especially among Conservatives, but perhaps calling someone out because they're overweight isn't the best way to gain voter support either?

 

QUOTE(twinstuff @ Jul 12 2007, 09:17 AM) [snapback]327535[/snapback]
He's not a major candidate, but Mike Huckabee got into the news a little yesterday with pointed comments made against filmmaker Michael Moore and his new movie, Sicko.

"Michael Moore is an example of why the health care system costs more in this country," said Huckabee. While he didn't clarify his comments for reporters, he went on to talk about his own experiences in losing 100 pounds over a several year period and how that helped lower his health costs, implying that Moore's weight was a drain on health care costs.

Moore may not have a huge base of fans, especially among Conservatives, but perhaps calling someone out because they're overweight isn't the best way to gain voter support either?


But Craig isn't that a good point brought up by Huckabee? Moore is so quick to blame the government, yet he doesn't take care of himself. Why should the government do it for him. With his weight he is at risk for a multitude of diseases (diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, etc), none of which are cheap to treat. So why should anyone else be responsible for his care. I exercise, eat right, and am good health, obviously my basic care will be lower than his, so is it fair if we had a national healthcare system that we all be taxed the same? Or would healthy people get a tax break and those that participate in unhealthy choices get a higher rate or even yet, would there be an "unhealthy tax" placed on Big Macs, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. There are so many issues here, I really don't see how calling him out for unhealthy practices is so bad. Moore is like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

QUOTE(bkimberly @ Jul 12 2007, 08:56 AM) [snapback]327615[/snapback]
Moore is like the pot calling the kettle black.


More like the pimple on the boil of the butt of humanity, but I'll accept the above, too.

 

QUOTE(twinstuff @ Jul 12 2007, 09:17 AM) [snapback]327535[/snapback]
He's not a major candidate, but Mike Huckabee got into the news a little yesterday with pointed comments made against filmmaker Michael Moore and his new movie, Sicko.

"Michael Moore is an example of why the health care system costs more in this country," said Huckabee. While he didn't clarify his comments for reporters, he went on to talk about his own experiences in losing 100 pounds over a several year period and how that helped lower his health costs, implying that Moore's weight was a drain on health care costs.

Moore may not have a huge base of fans, especially among Conservatives, but perhaps calling someone out because they're overweight isn't the best way to gain voter support either?


Yeah, kind of a cheap shot. I wonder when Huckabee used to look like Moore how much he would have appreciated those types of comments.

I think I am in the minority and actually really like Michael Moore. He's been running the talk show circuit promoting SICKO and I have seen snippets of him going to town on Wolf Blitzer in an interview on CNN. Very funny.

He has very valid points. Too many people are making too much money off of sick people. I don't know if socialized medicine is the way but how we handle health insurance and taking care of Americans isn't working for a lot of people. Especially the middle/working class who aren't poor enough for government help but don't make enough to afford health insurance. I hope to see SICKO next weekend.

I know I am going to get blasted for saying I like Michael Moore.....Maybe I should log off now.

 

QUOTE(Jersey_Girls @ Jul 12 2007, 09:43 AM) [snapback]327671[/snapback]
Yeah, kind of a cheap shot. I wonder when Huckabee used to look like Moore how much he would have appreciated those types of comments.

I think I am in the minority and actually really like Michael Moore. He's been running the talk show circuit promoting SICKO and I have seen snippets of him going to town on Wolf Blitzer in an interview on CNN. Very funny.

He has very valid points. Too many people are making too much money off of sick people. I don't know if socialized medicine is the way but how we handle health insurance and taking care of Americans isn't working for a lot of people. Especially the middle/working class who aren't poor enough for government help but don't make enough to afford health insurance. I hope to see SICKO next weekend.

I know I am going to get blasted for saying I like Michael Moore.....Maybe I should log off now.


I like Moore too, but mostly because I just think he makes good movies. My main problem with him is a little different in that I feel he tries to take on too many topics (sort of a gripe of the year approach) and then moves on to the next hotbed subject. So it's Big Auto companies and then the NRA and gun control law and then the Bush Administration and now the Health Care industry. Honestly I just wish he would stick to one issue - like gun control. I haven't seen Sicko and wasn't too excited about Fahrenheit 911 but really enjoyed Bowling for Columbine and Roger and Me.

I think Huckabee's methodology was inappropriate even if his message might be valid. It's fine to promote fitness and nutrition but don't run for office and directly come out and say our health care system would be in better shape if overweight people took better care of themselves. It's a little like those politicans who blamed the residents of New Orleans for not preparing properly for Hurricane Katrina.

 

QUOTE(twinstuff @ Jul 12 2007, 11:11 AM) [snapback]327722[/snapback]
I like Moore too, but mostly because I just think he makes good movies. My main problem with him is a little different in that I feel he tries to take on too many topics (sort of a gripe of the year approach) and then moves on to the next hotbed subject. So it's Big Auto companies and then the NRA and gun control law and then the Bush Administration and now the Health Care industry. Honestly I just wish he would stick to one issue - like gun control. I haven't seen Sicko and wasn't too excited about Fahrenheit 911 but really enjoyed Bowling for Columbine and Roger and Me.

I think Huckabee's methodology was inappropriate even if his message might be valid. It's fine to promote fitness and nutrition but don't run for office and directly come out and say our health care system would be in better shape if overweight people took better care of themselves. It's a little like those politicans who blamed the residents of New Orleans for not preparing properly for Hurricane Katrina.

I agree, Craig. Huckabee does have a point, though, and it's something I've been saying for years. People in this country lament the health care crisis, but when confronted with having to change their own behavior to improve their own health, a lot would rather just pop a pill. Many of the health care issues we face today are of our own making, at least partially: obesity, smoking, improper diet, etc. However, I think it's a poor way for Huckabee to try and garner any votes. And while I don't especially care for Michael Moore, I do applaud him making SickO to bring attention to the national health care crisis. But Huckabee oversimplifies, imo. There is way more to our health care problems besides people who do not take proper care of their bodies. There is also abuse by insurance companies, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies too. So he really does a disservice by saying this.

 

QUOTE(MamaKim @ Jul 12 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]327754[/snapback]
I agree, Craig. Huckabee does have a point, though, and it's something I've been saying for years. People in this country lament the health care crisis, but when confronted with having to change their own behavior to improve their own health, a lot would rather just pop a pill. Many of the health care issues we face today are of our own making, at least partially: obesity, smoking, improper diet, etc. However, I think it's a poor way for Huckabee to try and garner any votes. And while I don't especially care for Michael Moore, I do applaud him making SickO to bring attention to the national health care crisis. But Huckabee oversimplifies, imo. There is way more to our health care problems besides people who do not take proper care of their bodies. There is also abuse by insurance companies, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies too. So he really does a disservice by saying this.


Well said.

I also wish Moore would change his style a bit. I think he alienates a lot of people with his "in your face" approach and some of his sarcasm. While I find it enjoyable to watch, I think he could get his point across better with a toned down approach. If that makes sense.