Holding Back for Kindergarten

Renee, I am right there with you! My boys have an end of June birthday, and many people--NOT their teachers--told me to keep them back for another year, simply because they are boys with a late June birthday. Their teachers all told me that if they didn't look on their papers and know when their birthday was, they would never guess that they have such a late birthday. They are in K and thriving! BTW, Jon was tested before they booted him from preschool disabilities last March, and was reading and doing math on a 2nd grade level back then! I agree that one of the reasons K has become so much more academic is because a number of kids should be in 1st, not K, and the teacher has to have something for those kids. The funny thing is, there are a number of people I know whose kids miss the cut off and want to send them "early" because they feel they are ready--so the irony is that people are on both ends of the spectrum depending on when their child was born!

 

QUOTE(Nifty @ Oct 2 2007, 11:21 PM) [snapback]433646[/snapback]
I did not intend to make anyone feel defensive. My point is that the curriculum and age levels in K now are the result of people holding kids back. Now one almost HAS to hold a child with a summer birthday back because the class is really geared toward older children. And I really wasn't referring to an academic "edge" specifically, but the social/maturity advantage of being among the oldest instead of the youngest in class. Because people have been doing this more and more, a parent almost has no choice anymore but to hold back...because Kindergarten is not kindergarten anymore. It is more like first grade.

Sorry if anyone here thought I was criticizing them personally. As I said, given what I know now about the real expectations of many K teachers...and the fact that my son whose birthday was fully 3 months before the cutoff date was still the youngest in his class...I would definitely have held him back had I known what other people do and what he would be up against. I don't approve of the trend at all, but I would definitely have done it because this trend really leaves parents with no choice.

P.S. I, too, was on the "young end" () of the spectrum; I was age 5 (June birthday) when I started first grade. Maybe that's it: I am bitter! :laughing:

Renée, I didn't feel you were criticizing me at all. I just wanted to clarify what our reasons for holding our boys out were. I know you know and understand that it was the right thing for my boys. And I also know you know it was NOT done for academic reasons. Heck, Sean could have probably started college (yes, an exaggeration!) and done fine at age 5.

Again, though, I cannot stress enough the benefits of having held them all out as they get into middle and high school. Some of the social/emotional issues they have to deal with at this level really are tough and, knowing my own children's personalities, they are benefiting so much from having that extra year of maturity under their belts. I actually think now that they would have done fine in K at age 5 (barely age 5) but am more thankful than ever that we chose to delay the start of school because of the stress/demands of middle/high school now.

 

In your case, I would definately keep the little ones for an extra year. Especially since if they were born one day later, they would have gone the following year anyway. My issue isn't so much with the kids close to the deadline, but more with the attitude, they are boys, born 2 or even 3 months before the cut off, and I will automatically hold them back. I would wait until they are at 5 to access if they are ready or not, not just base it on their birthday--the point I was trying to make with my last post, but never quite got there.

 

QUOTE(Nifty @ Oct 2 2007, 10:21 PM) [snapback]433646[/snapback]
I did not intend to make anyone feel defensive. My point is that the curriculum and age levels in K now are the result of people holding kids back. Now one almost HAS to hold a child with a summer birthday back because the class is really geared toward older children. And I really wasn't referring to an academic "edge" specifically, but the social/maturity advantage of being among the oldest instead of the youngest in class. Because people have been doing this more and more, a parent almost has no choice anymore but to hold back...because Kindergarten is not kindergarten anymore. It is more like first grade.

Renee, I didn't feel offended
It's definitely not the parents here, it's the state and the testing. . . .
I don't know about other states, but there's state testing every year after 3rd grade and your school gets funding based on test scores. So the scools "teach the test" basically
It puts teachers and Admins in a funny place and it has dramatically changed education here.
So people have "learned" that to even get through school here, an extra year or how ever many months it comes out to under their child's belt is essential.

I volunteered for Berkley's class last year in a program called Reading Buddies, you sit w/ 3 children at a time in the hall and read to them and they read back to you and stuff.
I was so surprised that at least 16 out of her 20 classmates could read that first week of school.
Berkley could, but I thought going in she's have an advatage because of that. I had no idea they kind of expect incoming K's to read.
I kept thinking I hope the few that couldn't read didn't get left behind

 

I think it depends on the child. My 2 missed to cut-off date by a month. At first, I was upset that they would have to wait another year, but now I am completely glad. They do so well in school, and I think if they would have started earlier, they may not have. I don't think, socially they would have been ready. Now, with Peyton, she will be 5 for 2 weeks before she starts K. BUT, she is very different from the girls already. She sits and listens, can sit through long books being read, plays nice, and follows directions well, and this is a 2 (tured 2 in August). I know it will be a wait and see thing with her. We will put her in the Montessori pre-school next year, the girls went to. So, we will see how she does in a school environment then.

 

Heather, I absolutely agree that you also have to look at each individual child. When B&C were still in preschool we actually thought they were more "ready" for kindgarten socially than Sean was at the same age and we did consider sending them "on time." But, after talking to their preschool teacher who said she thought they would probably do okay either way but leaned more to us keeping them out, we decided to give them the same consideration as we did Sean. Part of the reason we had thought about not keeping them out that extra year, I'll be honest, was monetary. Paying for two five year olds in a five-day-a-week program on one income was tough, but we felt it wasn't fair for us to push them to start school just because of that, kwim? Thankfully, we made the right decision for them and kept them out. Down here, at least in our school district, it is quite common not to send boys with summer birthdays. But, I feel for some of the K teachers because in both B&C's class they had some 4 year olds, many 5 year olds, and some (like ours) 6 year olds. What an age range! I actually think personally that deciding when to send to them school was a much more important decision than whether or not we separated them in school whenever they did start.

Oh, and I forgot one of the most important, albeit selfish, reasons we chose not to send them. Because we wanted another year of them at home before "big" school. I really cherished that year with all three of them. :wub:

 

Funny story: I have a late Nov birthday, but my parents wanted me to start K at age 4 turning 5. I had to take a "test" for early admission to K. I failed!!! This is the question that failed me: Which is the dessert? Picture of steak, hamburger, fruit or pie. I choose fruit, because that was dessert in our house. The "correct" answer of course was pie. So I started a year later, which would be on time now adays.

And I have to say that I saw the difference in college. I went to univ in CA where the K cut-off was Dec 31st. Both of my roommates had fall birthdays one year younger than me. One (Sept b-day) did ok after an adjustment and graduated one year late, ie in the same year she would have had she started K at age 5. The other (Nov b-day) was in no way emotionally ready for college. She spent 4 years there going full-time, but never graduated. I used to feel that she was an immature little sister that I needed to take care of. And I resented her high schoolish antics.

My boys also have a Nov birthday, so they will start at 5 turning 6. While the extra year of preschool will kill us financially, they will be better off. Both have language delays (3 strikes: boys, twins, bilingual environment) and will definitely need that extra year before they can enter K in the US and keep up with their peers.

 

QUOTE(Mellizos @ Oct 3 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]434209[/snapback]
The other (Nov b-day) was in no way emotionally ready for college. She spent 4 years there going full-time, but never graduated.
This is why I am thankful Sean will have one more year at home before starting college. I know him so well and if he were a senior this year as he "should" be, there is no way he'd be really ready for the rigors of college and living away from home. He's mature in many ways, but still young too in some. I can only see that he will benefit from another year of maturity before college.

 

QUOTE(****mws**** @ Oct 3 2007, 07:41 AM) [snapback]433781[/snapback]
ok.. i think im starting to catch on.. hold em back right/?

now my question..

i have a ds whos b day is 9/12 and twinkies with b day 8/30
if the cut off date is 9/1 they will all be in the same grade.. unless i hold my little ones back.

i can see ds being more accademically inclined..
the others at age two seem more babyish than ds did/does..



Yes, if you don't start your twins late then all 3 of your kids will be in the same grade. Personally, I would start your twins a year later since they are the day before the cut off. That way too, your son can have his own grade.


QUOTE
It's definitely not the parents here, it's the state and the testing. . . .
I don't know about other states, but there's state testing every year after 3rd grade and your school gets funding based on test scores.


I agree with Amanda, this is exactly how it is in Maryland. Our cut off just go moved up to Sept. 1 (from Dec. 31) due to every school in MD now having to be all day K and the state testing MSA. And there is a state test for every grade after third grade here as well. Our curriculum is very academic and it has nothing to do with parents starting their kids late, it is due to all day K and the state tests.

 

QUOTE(MamaKim @ Oct 3 2007, 12:38 PM) [snapback]434225[/snapback]
This is why I am thankful Sean will have one more year at home before starting college. I know him so well and if he were a senior this year as he "should" be, there is no way he'd be really ready for the rigors of college and living away from home. He's mature in many ways, but still young too in some. I can only see that he will benefit from another year of maturity before college.


ITA agree w/ this

 

Our state starts state testing in K! If they don't benchmark on their testing they can't get out of that grade, even if they pass the classwork.

 

My girls don't meet the cut-off date so they automatically will have to wait. Which I'm afraid may be a bad thing. Jessy maybe the smallest in her class and being held back might help but I;m afraid waiting a year they will then be bored in K. They are already above and beyond their age group and what they should be able to do (begining to regonize letters, know almost all colors and shapes and an extrensive vocab).

I was one of the young ones. I turned 5 May 15 and went to school around Aug 15 so I had been 5 for 3 months. I did have problems in the begining with reading but it was soon found out the reason why is I couldn't see and once I had glasses it wasn't a problem and in the 5th grade I was reading on a college reading level. I did really well and had lots of AP classes. My problem was I didn't have the drive to continue on to college but don't worry I have a great job and am on my way to getting my insurance lisence.

 

If they have good K teachers, they should not have problems with boredom in school. If you read any of my previous posts in this topic, you will see that Sean had been reading proficiently for two years prior to starting K. But his K teacher was fantastic in keeping him challenged and motivated. And, he wasn't the only child in the K class who was this advanced. There were several others that needed the extra work as well. B&C were reading a little bit when they started K as well, not nearly as advanced as Sean had been, but they were still ahead of the K requirements. Their teachers also were great about getting them extra work or more challenging work. They taught to them at their level, as I would hope any good teacher would do. So any concerns should be discussed with their K teachers who will gladly address the issue with you. I am sure there were still times in K when my boys were a little bored, but they were all smart, and to be honest, they would have had these issues whether they started at 5 or 6. Having teachers who knew how to deal with this helped dramatically to keep them all from getting bored and kept them excited about school and about learning. It really can be done.

 

QUOTE(TwinxesMom @ Oct 5 2007, 11:59 PM) [snapback]438048[/snapback]
My girls don't meet the cut-off date so they automatically will have to wait. Which I'm afraid may be a bad thing. Jessy maybe the smallest in her class and being held back might help but I;m afraid waiting a year they will then be bored in K. They are already above and beyond their age group and what they should be able to do (begining to regonize letters, know almost all colors and shapes and an extrensive vocab).

I was one of the young ones. I turned 5 May 15 and went to school around Aug 15 so I had been 5 for 3 months. I did have problems in the begining with reading but it was soon found out the reason why is I couldn't see and once I had glasses it wasn't a problem and in the 5th grade I was reading on a college reading level. I did really well and had lots of AP classes. My problem was I didn't have the drive to continue on to college but don't worry I have a great job and am on my way to getting my insurance lisence.



I agree with Kim. If they have good teachers they should not be bored. My oldest is turning 7 next week and in first grade, she was ahead as well, with me being a former teacher myself, but she is by no means bored. Schools are very academic now, at least here in Maryland. I think your girls will be just fine. Schools do have programs too that they can put kids in if they truly are gifted. But good teachers will make sure they are not bored and always challenged.

 

My boys just turned 5 on August 12. The cutoff date here is August 31, so tecnically they qualified for kindergarten. There pre-school teachers felt they were ready for kindergarten (this was the intergrated pre-school run by the town- all the teachers hold masters degrees). My husband and I did not necessarily feel they were ready for kindergarten, but have been in a school setting since they were 2 ( I am a special education teacher and went back to work when they were 2) We needed a full day placement also- There pre-school teachers said make sure whatever we do, it's challenging academically, especially for Nicholas (good to hear...)

This is what we ended up doing- They are at a private kindergarten run by the Y. There are only 8 students in their class, and the teacher is a certified teacher. The kindergarten runs from 9-1, with extended hours on each end. If we feel mid-year, socially they need another year of kindegarten, we would send them to kindergarten in the town we live in (hopefully get full day via the lottery). Otherwise, we would send them to first grade.

It is such a hard decsion. As previous posters have send, it is the norm to hold off for another year, especially with boys. I think you really need to look at each individual child, and try to figure out what is best.

 

If you question whether or not your child is ready, HOLD THEM BACK!!!! Our DS has a April birthday and he started K this year. There are only 3 younger than him in the class. He is struggling and already in an intervention program. If I had it to do over again, I would have held him back. It makes him mommy (me) feel like an idiot that he can not recognize his numbers since his mommy has an accounting degree. I work with him all the time on it and he just does not get it. It does not seem like his brain is ready for it.

 

Jen, I am sorry that your son is struggling. Don't beat yourself up about it, it could be that he does have a learning issue, and if that is the case, holding him another year wouldn't make a difference. It is hard to see your child struggle, but I really don't think that sending him on time is making the difference, especially if as you say that you work with him all the time, and he doesn't get it. If you want, PT me, and I can give you some ideas to help him learn.

 

QUOTE(Jentwinmom @ Oct 9 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]442714[/snapback]
If you question whether or not your child is ready, HOLD THEM BACK!!!! Our DS has a April birthday and he started K this year. There are only 3 younger than him in the class. He is struggling and already in an intervention program. If I had it to do over again, I would have held him back. It makes him mommy (me) feel like an idiot that he can not recognize his numbers since his mommy has an accounting degree. I work with him all the time on it and he just does not get it. It does not seem like his brain is ready for it.


I'm sorry your DS is struggling in K. It's not easy for parents to watch their kids struggle. Be sure to talk to the teacher, I'm sure you already are, and get specific things to help him with at home. It's great that you are willing to work with him at home. :hug99:

 

Thanks Sharon & Amy. I appreciate your well wishes. He is getting his site words pretty good and loves reading, but his ability to recognize his alphabet and numbers is not good at all. We work on it at least an hour every night and sometimes more. I have tried flash cards, writing them, numerous web sites, talking about them, looking for them anywhere we go, etc. He simply does not get it. I am hoping the intervention classes will help, but I am beginning to think he just does not have it in him right now. I have met with his teacher about it and we are working together to try to help him. I think he will have to repeat K and I have to get it out of my mind that it makes me a bad parent. I was always at the top of my class, so this is just hard for me to get a grip on, and the pregnancy hormones don't help.

 

QUOTE(Jentwinmom @ Oct 10 2007, 09:46 AM) [snapback]443798[/snapback]
Thanks Sharon & Amy. I appreciate your well wishes. He is getting his site words pretty good and loves reading, but his ability to recognize his alphabet and numbers is not good at all. We work on it at least an hour every night and sometimes more. I have tried flash cards, writing them, numerous web sites, talking about them, looking for them anywhere we go, etc. He simply does not get it. I am hoping the intervention classes will help, but I am beginning to think he just does not have it in him right now. I have met with his teacher about it and we are working together to try to help him. I think he will have to repeat K and I have to get it out of my mind that it makes me a bad parent. I was always at the top of my class, so this is just hard for me to get a grip on, and the pregnancy hormones don't help.



Ah, that sure is tough. What about looking into a tutor for him? I wouldn't even think about him repeating K at this point. I would ask about a tutor, the teacher or school should be able to recommend one, or even Sylvan or Huntington Learning Center if you have one of them around you, but a tutor would probably be cheaper and one on one. Good luck. It's so great that you are working with him and don't beat yourself up about it. :hug99:

 

I agree with Amy about finding a tutor. If he is getting his sight words, and starting to read, but not getting phonics and numbers, I would think there is more involved then him not being "ready". The things that he can do usually come after a child has mastered letters and numbers, and if that is the case retention really won't make any difference. Please let me know if I can help--I was a special ed teacher for 8 years before the boys were born!

 

There was an interesting article in the New York Times several months ago about the long term effects of holding a child back from starting kindergarten. (Sorry I don't have a link to the article. But it was titled "When Should a Kid Start Kindergarten?" by Elizabeth Weil, June3, 2007) It said that more and more parents are starting their kids in kindergarten later rather than earlier. It also talked about how kids who struggle in kindergarten continue to do so for a long time past their kindergarten years. Reading this article confirmed my wish to start my kids later.

I'm planning on enrolling my kids a year later because of their late birthdays. (Their birthday is end of November, their due date was end of December, and the birthday cutoff in our area is Dec. 31.) I think being twins and being boys make it harder for them to adjust to kindergarten. Girls are so much more mature than boys at this age. Also, I think it's really tricky with twins whether they are in the same class or separate classes. With separate classes, there is the separation issue from their twin. With same class, I've heard that twins have a harder time making friends because they tend to play with each other. In addition, my kids don't speak English at home, so they'll face a language barrier as well.