Eliminating feedings

QUOTE(fuchsiagroan @ Feb 10 2008, 03:22 PM) [snapback]615319[/snapback]
Just want to clarify - despite all my touchy nerves I wasn't/am not making any assumptions about you, and hope it didn't come across that way.


No problem! As another post said- we all love our babies and want the best for them no matter what.

Yes, having twins is difficult, yet extremely rewarding. Breast feeding is a wonderful blessing, yet the most confusing thing I have ever done. I want my girls to be healthy and I realize it will be a while before they are sleeping longer stretches. I get naps when I need them. Somehow I manage on small amounts of sleep. But like I said, it is my decision to hold down most of the night feedings. I enjoy that quiet time with the girls- one on one. My husband is a great help in other areas and will step in- all I have to do is ask.

Thanks for your insight! You have several months more experience at this...it is helpful to me to hear all the different opinions and scenerios.

 

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I enjoy that quiet time with the girls- one on one.


:wub: Aw, that's so sweet! Know what you mean - once we were past the eating every few hours all night phase, I actually did start to enjoy nursing at night (sometimes, anyway). Especially once the babies were older and more squirmy/distracted during daytime feedings!

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Somehow I manage on small amounts of sleep.


It is amazing what you can get used to! Parenthood (especially twin parenthood) should be classified as an extreme sport!

 

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Sometimes something gives the appearance of working, or gets credit for working when it's really just age and maturity doing the job, and this is where logic comes in. All I've really heard here is "I did x and my babies slept well," not WHY doing x would MAKE a baby sleep well, especially versus doing y. You might as well credit the good sleep to your choice of diaper brand or crib mobile - I'm only seeing coincidence, not cause and effect. So if someone can explain the cause & effect part, I'd like to hear it.


I think this bears repeating - science is science. Researh is research, and just because you did X and Y happened does not mean that X *caused* Y. I used the routines from HSHHC and I have two babies who still wake for night feeds at 9 months. Doesn't mean that the routines caused that. In the same way, just because you put your babies to sleep on their tummies and they are fine does not prove that tummy sleeping is as safe as back sleeping. There are statistics that show that MORE babies die sleeping on their stomachs than their backs. Just because your stomach-sleeping baby is alive doesn't mean that someone else's baby won't die from sleeping on their tummy. That's a FACT. So saying that you did XYZ and your kids are fine is a straw man argument - it means nothing, except that YOUR kids are fine. It doesn't prove statistics wrong - it just means that you got lucky.

My biggest beef about the advice, from any source, is that so much of it ignores the fact the babies are indivuals - they are people, not just little lumps to be molded how we want. And what works for one baby may be neutral or harmful to another.
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The fact of the matter is, having twins is the hardest thing I have ever done. They are completely two different people with different personalities...sleep cycles, hunger needs, etc. SO, I ask advice or thoughts.


This is so true - just because your cousin's baby was sleeping through the night at 3 weeks doesn't mean that my baby is ready to. Just because *most* babies sleep through the night by 6 months doesn't mean that my baby is ready to. Just like adults have different sleeping/eating patterns, so do babies. One-size-fits-all advice is bound to not fit all babies - and can cause untold stress and strife for parents are babies who are trying to conform to it. Yes, having twins is hard - the hardest thing I have done too - and frankly I don't enjoy it very much. But, for me, trying to determine how to set about making my babies conform to someone else's program would only increase my stress and therefore my babies' stress levels as well. Would I like them to sleep through the night? You bet. I would be delighted. But I am listening to my heart, and following my babies' cues, and trusting that when they need to sleep more than they need to eat at night, they will sleep through.

Good luck, I know how hard it is.

 

QUOTE(Mimsy @ Feb 11 2008, 05:57 AM) [snapback]615857[/snapback]
I think this bears repeating - science is science. Researh is research, and just because you did X and Y happened does not mean that X *caused* Y.



This is also true for demand feeding. Just because your babies were born at 5 pounds and are now X amount of pounds and you happened to demand feed doesn't mean that they wouldn't be that same size on a schedule. For proof, see my signature, my babies are at 12 pounds now and they are on a schedule. (somewhat)

 

wow...lots of opinions.

I'm a believer in scheduling...at this age.

When the boys came home, I was told to let them go no longer than every 3 hours between feedings. Sometimes that meant feedings at 1.5 hours sometimes 3. It just varied. But over time, a pattern arose to when they ate, slept, and played.

I bf so I knew that meant they would likely eat more frequently. I still got up once a night until the boys were 6 months old, by 7 months we no longer had night wakings, and by 8 months we dropped the dreamfeed and they STTN. At about 4 months, I began merging feedings (if they slept through one, I would go ahead and do a dream feed at the time between the missed feeding and the next one). With the merged feedings, I slowed decreased the amount/time bfing and eventually they STTN. So I guess to answer your question, I didn't really decrease amounts until we had merged into about 2 wakings a night, and then I slowly decreased those. For example, I would bf for say 10 min as opposed to 15 min. Would do this for a week, and if they did well with it and didn't wake up hungry/crying, then I would drop down to 8 minutes, and then 5, etc.

I would note that once the day time "schedule" was established, nights got much better and were very predictable as were days. Some times it was hard because we had to wait to do something until the boys bottle or nap, etc, but we always knew when that would be.

Now that we're on food...a defined schedule is key for ME. You want meal times at meal times. Naps have to come in there somewhere so you watch for sleepy times and plan naps and meals around each other. For me, this works, and my boys established their own "schedule."

Original poster asked about sleep training...if there was no input to be given then it should have been left alone or you could merely say that you did not believe in "scheduling" or sleep training. If you were curious about "scheduling" you could start your own thread and express your curiosity there.

 

QUOTE(Mimsy @ Feb 11 2008, 06:57 AM) [snapback]615857[/snapback]
But I am listening to my heart, and following my babies' cues....


Listening to my heart as well! I also keep telling myself that they won't be this little for very long...and be patient through this stage of life.

 

QUOTE(snoopytwins @ Feb 11 2008, 09:24 AM) [snapback]616001[/snapback]
At about 4 months, I began merging feedings

Would you mind writing to me and explaining merged feedings. I know you described it, but something is not clicking. How do you merge feedings?

QUOTE(snoopytwins @ Feb 11 2008, 09:24 AM) [snapback]616001[/snapback]
Original poster asked about sleep training...if there was no input to be given then it should have been left alone or you could merely say that you did not believe in "scheduling" or sleep training. If you were curious about "scheduling" you could start your own thread and express your curiosity there.


I am the original poster and I certainly wasnt expecting so many replies and people so adamant against schedules. Live and let live! I was just curious!

 

QUOTE(PgTimesTwo @ Feb 11 2008, 09:21 AM) [snapback]615994[/snapback]
For proof, see my signature, my babies are at 12 pounds now and they are on a schedule. (somewhat)


Ah, but one experience does not equate to proof of any one theory. In fact, in science, there is no proof of a theory, there is only evidence that negates a theory. And, how do you know that your babies wouldn't be 15 pounds if they were fed on demand?

I really don't feel strongly about either kind of feeding, but I do feel strongly about science. Interesting thread!

Shelley

P.S. Does anyone know of any studies about this? It would be a very difficult study to obtain valid results, but I'm curious. Again, interesting conversation!

 

Just a friendly reminder about Twinstuff's Terms of Service (TOS):

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Because of the diversity of our community, posted messages must also not belittle the beliefs of other users, either personally directed towards another user or in a general nature. We ask that you use consideration for the feelings, experiences, situations and even national, cultural, religious and ethnic differences of the other members of this community before posting comments that may be considered offensive to others who may not share your views.


Please understand I'm not saying that anyone here has crossed the line, I just want to make sure we keep this thread that way.

Thank you...stepping off the Mod box now...:blush:

 

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Original poster asked about sleep training...if there was no input to be given then it should have been left alone or you could merely say that you did not believe in "scheduling" or sleep training. If you were curious about "scheduling" you could start your own thread and express your curiosity there.


The OP was asking about (and PPs were discussing) a book that claims that allowing young babies to eat only 4 times a day at 4 hr intervals will make them sleep better. I question those claims, and would still be interested to hear any logical arguments or scientific evidence that a daytime feeding schedule is a form of nighttime sleep training.

I'm actually all in favor of sleep training, when the babies are old enough for it. I've successfully trained my babies to go to sleep on their own, sleep til a reasonable hour in the morning, and put themselves back to sleep/stay asleep through lighter sleep phases. HSHHC has been a very helpful resource for me. With apologies to Tina Turner - "What's food got to do with it?" :lol:

 

QUOTE(MichelleL @ Feb 11 2008, 11:12 AM) [snapback]616210[/snapback]
Just a friendly reminder about Twinstuff's Terms of Service (TOS):
Please understand I'm not saying that anyone here has crossed the line, I just want to make sure we keep this thread that way.

Thank you...stepping off the Mod box now...:blush:


Thanks for reminding us of that Michelle.

 

I just want to say ditto to the pps who mentioned that feeding formula and breastmilk are two very different situations in terms of the timing of feedings. Breast milk is digested much faster than formula. Also, different women have different "storage capacity" for how much milk is in their breasts at any given time. (A small-breasted woman may need to feed her babies more often.) In general, an infant needs to be breastfed about 8-12 times in a 24 hour period, which comes out to be every 2-3 hours (approximately). Because the quantity of breastmilk available at a given time and the babies' hunger varies, BF on demand makes more sense.

Having said that, though, my boys' hunger tended to be pretty predictable. I fed "on demand" but "on demand" ended up being about every 2.5 hours, because that's when they tended to ask for it. Like pps said, all babies are different in this regard, I'm sure.

Michelle