Becoming Babywise

QUOTE(connorsjen @ Dec 28 2008, 09:02 PM) [snapback]1124300[/snapback]
I am a little disappointed in the lack of respect some have for others and I will think twice before posting anything again. I was looking forward to using this site as a great resource/support network. :mellow:


Unfortunately, there are topics that sometimes cause not so great responses, however, overall, this is a fantastic site for all sorts of information. This debate is in no way a reflection of you or your post and I hope that in the future you do continue to post here.

 

Just my opinion, and I think it is totally great if this book has worked for you,
but yuck on Babywise. I just don't see the point in these rigid schedules. I mean, these
are babies we are talking about. Little, tiny, helpless humans who have no idea what is going on.
I gave them whatever they needed, whenever they needed it.

Before they were born, I rented Happiest Baby on the Block and soon after they were born I read
some of Healthy Sleep Habits Healthy Child (or whatever it's called) and both were very interesting and very informative, but
the Babywise thing seems a little freaky. ALTHOUGH--I do see some posters points in HELLO, USE
COMMON SENSE and modify where necessary. I seriously doubt any mother on this site just blindly does
whatever a book tells her.

And, I'm not a real dramatic person. I'm not freaking out about schedules or ounces or this and that. I got
them through months 1-4 just fine, AND went back to work when they were 10 weeks. They started sleeping
through the night at 12 weeks. I fed them when they were hungry, rocked them when they were tired,
really fought through the reflux and colicky type of stuff (months 1-3), and just really enjoyed them and tried to
learn about them. NOW--they are 6 months and doing great. Totally on a schedule, sleeping from 8 pm. to 7 a.m.
I couldn't ask for better, brighter, healthier, happier babies. I look back to those beginning weeks home from the hospital
and it was crazy, an absolute blur, but it was great too!

Good luck in whatever you choose. Honestly, I chose to do what felt right and what my pediatrician recommended, and advice
from my mom and mother-in-law. That seemed more "normal" to me, than reading some book.

 

I apologize for my previous post. I don't think by any means that you are a bad parent if you feed on damand. My persective on feeding on demand has come from a few people I have known to use it and all they did all day long was feed their baby. Every time they would cry they would feed them. I just didn't think this was the best way to go about it..but to each their own. I was just a little peeved at the previous poster. I find people like to jump on others that do schedules. I guess I was tired of keeping my mouth shut but i will go back to doing that. Oh and as for babies being hungry after an hour, I do think that with a Breast feed baby it is very possible because you never really know how much they got, which is why I chose to pump. None of my three children were or have ever been hungry after an hour because they got full feeds. The soonest that they were, was 2 hours which I bumped up the amount they were getting which changed it back to 3 hours. I have always been a person who likes a schedule. I would never let my baby go hungry or harm them in any other way. I find my children have thrilled on schedules and it has worked very well for us. Anyways, enough of my rambling. I just wish people wouldn't be so quick to critisize other peoples ways of raising their kids (which I know I did this time). Again, I'm sorry I got defensive and angry and I will I try to be more respectful in the future.

 

QUOTE
I apologize for my previous post. I don't think by any means that you are a bad parent if you feed on damand. My persective on feeding on demand has come from a few people I have known to use it and all they did all day long was feed their baby. Every time they would cry they would feed them.


What you saw was not "feeding on demand," it was "feeding whenever a baby cries." Feeding on demand means feeding when a baby shows signs of hunger. These are two totally different things. I'm sorry to have to stress this point again, but it does a huge disservice to demand-feeders when it's represented inaccurately.

But anyway, thank you for your gracious apology! That's really big of you.

QUOTE
as for babies being hungry after an hour, I do think that with a Breast feed baby it is very possible because you never really know how much they got, which is why I chose to pump. None of my three children were or have ever been hungry after an hour because they got full feeds.


In the beginning I was nursing DD and pumping for DS, and sometimes giving both bottles so I could get a break. They could indeed be hungry an hour after a full feed. (Oh, and my personal experience with BFing is that you DO know pretty much how much they're getting. Not how many ounces, but you feel the letdown, you hear them swallowing, you notice how long it takes them and how they behave afterward... It doesn't take long at all before you know whether they've gotten a full feed or not.) Just goes to show what we've all been saying - that babies are so different!

QUOTE
I just wish people wouldn't be so quick to critisize other peoples ways of raising their kids (which I know I did this time). Again, I'm sorry I got defensive and angry and I will I try to be more respectful in the future.


Well, obviously I have strong opinions about Babywise, as do plenty of others here. But that is in no way a judgment of moms who use it. Babywise has proved itself dangerous, and is full of statements/ideas that go against all that good science has to say about child development and human lactation, or are just downright illogical. There's a huge difference between pointing this out (to someone who asked for opinions on the book) and calling someone a bad mom. We're all adults here, surely we can have a lively debate about ideas in a book without it getting personal. :drinks: I mean, with child abuse horror stories like the ones people post now and then in pc, how could you call someone a bad mom for having a different parenting philosophy?

 

I'm surprised to see these posts are continuing. All the original poster was asking was for people who used Babywise, when did you start implementing it? All the bashing back and forth and personal opinions would be more appropriate in PM's and not on this thread, which has been totally hijacked from the original poster. Hopefully she has not been turned away from TS for good.

 

Many people quote BW as saying they can ONLY eat every 3 hours. If you re read the section o feeding and routines, you will see that he recommends babies be feed every 2.5-3 hours. He also recommends feeding them before that AFTER you have tried calming them, relieving gas, or giving them their passy. He is a strong advocate for not going past 3 hours before the babies are 12 weeks old. I NEVER said you babies can manipulate before 4monthes. Babies are capable of createing conditioned responses through operant behavioral conditioning as early as the 4th month. I have a BA in Psychology and a masters in Social Work. I have done much research on the subject.
All of this being said, I am a firm believer in parents educating themselves before they act. Following what the AAP, BW, or any other source blindly is saying that you trust others over your own instinct. Many other posts have suggested a combination of several techniques which may ultimately be what you have to do.

I also said feeding on demand consequences(results to actions) were a generalization and not a hard an fast rule.
Any one care to quote the BW book sections that are "proven dangerous". And plese quote the whole section, not a sentence that takes it out of context.
I could say ALL immunizations are proven dangerous b/c the gov't has a multi billion dollar fund to pay off law suits resulting from kids getting ill,hurt, or killed form them, but that doesn't mean SOME immunizations aren't safe and beneficial.

 

QUOTE(ladybenz @ Dec 28 2008, 11:38 AM) [snapback]1123747[/snapback]
Again, I'll state that I have not read the book--but it seems that the people in this thread doing the name calling and criticizing other's parenting methods are the ones who follow it.

Nice.

Frankly, the guy who wrote it has absolutely NO credentials, and even his own kids have come out and said their father is WRONG. His church kicked him out and the AAP says he's dangerous.

Children have DIED.

But those of us who "shove a boob" in a hungry child's face are the bad parents?

I didn't name call ...my kids are healthy and I knew nothing of the controversy until baby #4. But it's never my first book recommendation to someone that wonders what I do. Or if I recommend it I always let the person know about the controversy so they can check it out themselves.

 

if someone's child fails to thrive or even dies because of the advice of a single book, it's not the failure of the book. there's something deeper going on with a person who would allow their child to suffer that way.

i personally don't believe in imposing a schedule on babies. that said i do like to keep their days fairly predictable both for their sense of security and for my sanity. they recently went from eating every 3 hours to 2 while we were on vacation but were only eating about an ounce and a half at each feeding. i worked with them to get them back to 3 and larger quantities at each feeding so they would be able to go that long. it wasn't about forcing them to wait or letting them starve. i generally feed on demand, and i've found that they demand on a fairly regular schedule. i just help them maintain it.

the point being, neither feeding on demand nor maintaining a schedule will IN AND OF ITSELF threaten your child's welfare. it's all what works for you, and every baby and family is unique. if you're not intelligent and able to judge for yourself what makes sense you can do yourself and your baby a disservice by adhering too strictly to either method (either starving them or constantly "shoving a boob" at them).

in other words, some people have had great success with babywise. others have had none. many seem to have moderate success and figure out their own version of care based on what parts of the philosophy makes sense for their family. as such it certainly won't hurt you (the OP) to read babywise and see if it makes sense to you. and it's okay if it doesn't sound right to you. the important thing to remember is that there's no hard and fast science here. it's all about what works for you and there's nothing wrong with you or your baby if a particular parenting philosophy doesn't work. so why not give it a read and see how it feels?

 

QUOTE(FirstTimeMom814 @ Dec 28 2008, 12:31 PM) [snapback]1123859[/snapback]
This is always a heated topic. I'd like to ask that we at least remain respectful to each other. Everyone is going to have a different approach to parenting and no one thing is going to work for everyone 100% of the time. It doesn't mean that people who do it differently than you are wrong, they just chose a different approach.

Personally I never read either of those books, I just didn't have the time. I think you have to take all advice , regardless of where you read it, with a grain of salt. Ultimately you have to make the best decision for your babies and use common sense.


This is great advice, Trish! Thanks for the reminder.

 

I just had to say one thing. I know people are over this whole discussion. But, what is the big deal about saying your opinion?
I don't think anyone has been that disrespectful. I've read the whole thread. There are strong opinions on both sides. I think that
is a great thing. I don't think anyone is going to hold it against anyone. I think the next time a person posts a problem or a picture
of their kid, those same people will be on there giving great advice and commenting on how cute the babies are.

If someone is going to post a question, be prepared for opinions.

One poster said she was mad about the previous post--which would have been "Olivia"-- but I thought Olivia made some good points/comments.
She said her opinion which was she didn't like the book, told what she did, and then went on to say regardless of the controversy any mom on
here isn't going to do anything crazy.

Another poster, can't remember, said the same thing. Said, look, all moms on here are caring loving moms, they aren't putting their children in danger.

Some of these discussions are good and I really learn from them. Some people are a bit sensitive. I really didn't see any name calling. Just
very strong opinions.

 

^ i'm glad someone said it. if someone asks for opinions we can't all just say, "i don't know, whatever works for you!" we have to be allowed to share our opinions and the reasons for our opinions, as long as we're not disrespectful. disagreement in and of itself isn't offensive and i'd hate to live in a world where we all had to wear kid-gloves at all times.

 

Just wanted to mention that the book has some great tips in my opinion. I found the advice very similar to advice in other books, and to that of our pediatrician, and it helped give some structure to our days. I don't find it as strict as people have mentioned, and in fact, I have never heard criticism from someone who has actually read it. Over and over it says to feed your child when you think it is hungry...not to be too strict of a schedule. It's meant to be used loosely and they emphasize that every child is different. My oldest son slept TTN at 8 weeks, and the twins by 10 weeks with no CIO. I hesitated to respond due to some of the ugliness, but I highly recommend this book.

Take care!
Becca
Zander 12/24/03
Zack & Zoe 5/15/08, born at 37.5 weeks after 7 weeks of strict bedrest!

 

I agree with Kate1587 and piccologirl. I don't think anyone was being ugly, this topic is heated because we are all deeply committed mothers. I encourage everyone to voice their opinions and just because you passionate doesn't mean you are being rude!

To tell the truth, I have not read a single book. I went with my instinct and my girls' preferences. They slept through the night by 4 months (2 months adjusted) and they go down without so much as a peep! We dont have a specific wake up time or bed time, but we do have ranges. They wake between 6:30-8am. and go to bed between 8-9pm. They take two good long naps a day and eat 6-8oz every 4 or so hours. I cant tell you at 1pm tomorrow what we will be doing, but I do have an "idea" of what to expect. I like having a flexible day, without a real "schedule". However I don't really "feed on demand", because my girls typically want to eat before they are ready, so they sometimes need to play or be distracted for a little while, that way they eat a good amount. I find twins too difficult to keep on such a rigid schedule- but they do like some what predictable days. Plus, if something comes up like a Dr's apt or holidays, we can make adjustments without a problem! I guess you could say I am right in the middle. You will find what works once your little ones arrive!

 

QUOTE(Monica08 @ Dec 30 2008, 03:34 AM) [snapback]1125766[/snapback]
I don't think anyone was being ugly, this topic is heated because we are all deeply committed mothers. I encourage everyone to voice their opinions and just because you passionate doesn't mean you are being rude!


Actually there are a couple of posts from either side of the "disagreement" that put down others for how they choose to raise their babies schedule vs. feed on demand.

I do want to remind you all of the TOS and that is:

Offensive Material - Because of the diversity of our community, posted messages must also not belittle the beliefs of other users, either personally directed towards another user or in a general nature. We ask that you use consideration for the feelings, experiences, situations...

And while it is awesome that we are passionate about raising our kids we also need to be kind to others!!