Anyone refuse Chicken Pox vaccine?

QUOTE(angie7 @ May 19 2008, 07:46 PM) [snapback]781655[/snapback]
(the human baby that was aborted to start these vaxs, mentioned in my quote above)


I'm sorry, but I find this statement really really hard to swallow and a little offensive to boot. The baby was ABORTED for this reason. I just can't believe that. Are aborted fetuses used in research? certainly they are. Are females, scientist or whomever, saying, "Oh I'm pregnant! I think I'll abort it to use it for research!"
:nea:

If a child was aborted it was aborted because the mother, for her own private reasons, did not feel like she could care for a child or handle a pregnancy at that moment in time. Not because the "needed" it to start a vaccine.

 

Vaccines do not contain aborted fetal tissue. "Residual cell line components including DNA and protein" are not the same thing.
Tissue:
Biology. an aggregate of similar cells and cell products forming a definite kind of structural material with a specific function, in a multicellular organism.

Cell line:
Cell Biology. a perpetuating strain of cells in laboratory culture.

The referenced MRC-5 cell strain (like the WI-38 cell line) is susceptible to a wide range of human viruses, and it supports the growth of a broad range of viruses. A line cell is a means to attenuate/grow a virus. Attenuate means to render the virus less virulent or weaken it.

QUOTE(angie7 @ May 19 2008, 01:25 PM) [snapback]781729[/snapback]
http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccine_co...etail.cfv?id=32

This is actually a very good link. It explains very well why human cell lines are used in making vaccines:
QUOTE
These two cell strains have been growing under laboratory conditions for more than 35 years. The cells are merely the biological system in which the viruses are grown. These cell strains do not and cannot form a complete organism and do not constitute a potential human being. The cells reproduce themselves, so there is no need to abort additional fetuses to sustain the culture supply. Viruses are collected from the diploid cell cultures and then processed further to produce the vaccine itself.

QUOTE(angie7 @ May 19 2008, 01:25 PM) [snapback]781729[/snapback]
It all started with human DNA. Human DNA is still used in making of these vaccines in the first place. So technically, aborted babies are still being used to create vaccines.

No. It didn't all start with human DNA. In fact, DNA was/is not really even part of the equation. It started with some dangerous viruses that scientists found could be propagated in culture, in the lab. Cell lines are the vehicles to propagate the growth of viruses for vaccine production. Very different. And "technically" very different, too.

 

QUOTE(Meximeli @ May 19 2008, 02:17 PM) [snapback]781836[/snapback]
I'm sorry, but I find this statement really really hard to swallow and a little offensive to boot. The baby was ABORTED for this reason. I just can't believe that. Are aborted fetuses used in research? certainly they are. Are females, scientist or whomever, saying, "Oh I'm pregnant! I think I'll abort it to use it for research!"
:nea:

If a child was aborted it was aborted because the mother, for her own private reasons, did not feel like she could care for a child or handle a pregnancy at that moment in time. Not because the "needed" it to start a vaccine.

You're absolutely right. From Angie's link above:

QUOTE
Both fetuses were intentionally aborted, but neither was aborted for the purpose of obtaining diploid cells. (6-8 ). The fetal tissues that eventually became WI-38 and the MRC-5 cell cultures were removed from fetuses that were dead. The cellular biologists who made the cell cultures did not induce the abortions.

 

QUOTE(Meximeli @ May 19 2008, 09:17 PM) [snapback]781836[/snapback]
I'm sorry, but I find this statement really really hard to swallow and a little offensive to boot. The baby was ABORTED for this reason. I just can't believe that. Are aborted fetuses used in research? certainly they are. Are females, scientist or whomever, saying, "Oh I'm pregnant! I think I'll abort it to use it for research!"
:nea:

If a child was aborted it was aborted because the mother, for her own private reasons, did not feel like she could care for a child or handle a pregnancy at that moment in time. Not because the "needed" it to start a vaccine.


I apologize. I re-read it and can see how what I said implied this. No, these babies were aborted for other reasons I'm sure. My statement was just saying that the vaxes got their start with this abortion, not saying that the baby was aborted soley for this purpose.

 

Cathy, we both know we can go around and around on this subject (as we have before). You can give this link and your opinion, I can give this link and my opinion. You chose to believe what you feel is best, as do I. But I do find it odd, that even when the CDC, FDA, and any other gov't entity says "aborted fetal tissue is used in making/culturing vaccines" you still claim that it's not...From the CDC itself

"Does MMR vaccine contain fetal or embryonic tissue? If so, what kind?
The rubella vaccine virus is cultured in human cell-line cultures, and some of these cell lines originated from aborted fetal tissue, obtained from legal abortions in the 1960's. No new fetal tissue is needed to produce cell lines to make these vaccines, now or in the future. Fetal tissue is not used to produce vaccines; cell lines generated from a single fetal tissue source are used; vaccine manufacturers obtain human cell lines from FDA-certified cell banks. After processing, very little, if any, of that tissue remains in the vaccine."

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/combo-...nipinfo-mmr.htm

Which clearly uses the word "tissue" multiple times....I get what cell lines are, but it all derived from someplace, and that happens to be the origin of human tissue. We are not debating if tissue is in each and every vaccine that a child receives. The issue is that some vaccines are cultured on human fetal tissue that is used to make vaccines. And in processing, maybe none of it is left, who knows, but the point is, it ALL started on cell lines from an aborted fetus, from their DNA, without human aborted fetal cells, these vaccines would not exist.

 

How did I know this was going to start a debate!

Give it a rest!

DO YOU OWN RESEARCH AND YOUR OWN DOCTORS!!!

 

QUOTE(HeyThere @ May 19 2008, 11:58 PM) [snapback]782105[/snapback]
How did I know this was going to start a debate!

Give it a rest!

DO YOU OWN RESEARCH AND YOUR OWN DOCTORS!!!


Good Idea!!!

 

I have had chicken pox 3 X and almost died the last time (would have died were it not for the specialists in Boston's Children's Floating Hospital in 1987). Dr's tell me my immune system seems to fail with chicken pox. I still have facial scarring from the last time.

So! I had all my kids immunized (FOR ME!) Still my 8 yo got it and it was so light (due to the immunization) we barely knew what it was. And greatfully, I never got it. None of the other kids got it. I fear for those shots for my kids, but I fear for the deseases more.

When the twins were 2 weeks old, I allowed the first visitors (my neighbors and their kids) to come visit for the twins first visit. Two days later the mom called to tell me one of the girls had come down with chicken pox. I lived in fear for weeks - it can be deadly for newborns...I did not realize my neighbors kids were not immunized.

 

QUOTE(MamaKimberlee @ May 19 2008, 04:54 PM) [snapback]782219[/snapback]
I have had chicken pox 3 X and almost died the last time (would have died were it not for the specialists in Boston's Children's Floating Hospital in 1987). Dr's tell me my immune system seems to fail with chicken pox. I still have facial scarring from the last time.

So! I had all my kids immunized (FOR ME!) Still my 8 yo got it and it was so light (due to the immunization) we barely knew what it was. And greatfully, I never got it. None of the other kids got it. I fear for those shots for my kids, but I fear for the deseases more.

When the twins were 2 weeks old, I allowed the first visitors (my neighbors and their kids) to come visit for the twins first visit. Two days later the mom called to tell me one of the girls had come down with chicken pox. I lived in fear for weeks - it can be deadly for newborns...I did not realize my neighbors kids were not immunized.

:hug99:
How scary for you.

You are the perfect reason why those who can, should be immunized. To protect those who can't.

 

QUOTE(angie7 @ May 19 2008, 04:53 PM) [snapback]782094[/snapback]
Cathy, we both know we can go around and around on this subject (as we have before). You can give this link and your opinion, I can give this link and my opinion. You chose to believe what you feel is best, as do I. But I do find it odd, that even when the CDC, FDA, and any other gov't entity says "aborted fetal tissue is used in making/culturing vaccines" you still claim that it's not...From the CDC itself

"Does MMR vaccine contain fetal or embryonic tissue? If so, what kind?
The rubella vaccine virus is cultured in human cell-line cultures, and some of these cell lines originated from aborted fetal tissue, obtained from legal abortions in the 1960's. No new fetal tissue is needed to produce cell lines to make these vaccines, now or in the future. Fetal tissue is not used to produce vaccines; cell lines generated from a single fetal tissue source are used; vaccine manufacturers obtain human cell lines from FDA-certified cell banks. After processing, very little, if any, of that tissue remains in the vaccine."

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/combo-...nipinfo-mmr.htm

Which clearly uses the word "tissue" multiple times....I get what cell lines are, but it all derived from someplace, and that happens to be the origin of human tissue. We are not debating if tissue is in each and every vaccine that a child receives. The issue is that some vaccines are cultured on human fetal tissue that is used to make vaccines. And in processing, maybe none of it is left, who knows, but the point is, it ALL started on cell lines from an aborted fetus, from their DNA, without human aborted fetal cells, these vaccines would not exist.

Angie, yes we can go around and around. We can give our opinions and back them up, and we can pick apart the particulars of what's in a vaccine. What I'm getting at, is, when someone says, "This vaccine is made from or has aborted human fetal tissue in it," it's all shock value, AND it's untrue. From the very CDC quote you posted: "Fetal tissue is not used to produce vaccines"..... how do I make it any clearer? And you talk about how "it ALL started on cell lines from an aborted fetus, from their DNA...." What about their DNA? Would you please explain this? From everything I understand, it has nothing to do with the DNA of the cell lines. Do you know how a virus replicates? It cannot replicate without a host. Think of it as a parasite. The human culture cells are the hosts - that's it; nothing more. It's all about the virus infecting, replicating its own DNA and proteins, maturing and multiplying and being released from a place where it can grow. The human cell lines support the growth of a broad range of viruses, so that is why they are used.

QUOTE(HeyThere @ May 19 2008, 04:58 PM) [snapback]782105[/snapback]
How did I know this was going to start a debate!

Give it a rest!

DO YOU OWN RESEARCH AND YOUR OWN DOCTORS!!!

Honestly, Heather, every time I "debate" vaccines I learn something new. I find the whole topic fascinating and intriguing. And I keep posting, because I want my fellow TS members to know what I know.