Where to begin?

OK. I'm ultra paranoid that I've done everything wrong so far! Well-I know we've started some bad habits...and it is now time to break them. I need sleep-and so do my boys. I have questions I hope someone can answer!

My boys are 16 weeks old this coming Thursday(born at 38 weeks..so would that make them 14 weeks adjusted???? Or fine because they were farther along?) Anyways...

The only thing I have down, for the most part, is their nap. I get the 1.5-2 hours awake-and generally speaking, I put them to sleep....in their swing....Oops!
Night time is pure TORTURE! Generally from 7-10pm it's a scream-fest. They cry, scream, eat, cry, scream, eat. One minute they want the bottle, the next they don't. We rock them to sleep(oops again!) in their carseats(another oops!) until they FINALLY fall asleep! It's a daunting task and I can't stand it. I dread nighttime. And dh is starting to work late next week, so I will be alone for this lovely ritual.

I started HSHCC. Haven't gotten very far. Here are my questions-where I am confused, etc...

1.) Where do I start with the sleep training? Start at naps? Or bedtime?
2.) We have no routine..should I just pick a day and try to train them to sleep, etc...?
3.) Would you CIO at this point? For how long? I think one will do ok...the other will scream for hours
4.) When will they stop waking at night? They are roughly 12-14lbs...One went to sleep by 11pm...up at 2...and again at 5. They get breastmilk during the day(I pump) and formula at night.
5.) How do I know they don't need to eat at night anymore?

Basically.... I just don't have a clue where to begin. I've been putting this off because I am dreading it. But from what I read so far-sleep is very important for the babies-I get that. Plus-I want to stop random visitors(inlaws) from coming over whenever they want-or having us over whenever-thus interrupting their napping.

ACK! HELP! I'm sure I have many more questions.... but I can't think of them now. Sorry for another sleep question!!! I just NEED a schedule-for their sake! DH and I are NOT schedule people...but I think and feel my boys need one. We are very laid back ppl.... but I want what is best for my boys-and I want them sleeping!!!!

 

I haven't read any books about sleep training but I will just give you my advice since I was pretty successful getting my older DS to STTN at a really early age.

1.) Where do I start with the sleep training? Start at naps? Or bedtime?
I would start at bedtime. I had a much harder time with naps with my DS then I did getting him to sleep through the night. Plus I think it is easier to have a consistent nightitme schedule then a daytime one.

2.) We have no routine..should I just pick a day and try to train them to sleep, etc...?
Again I would try bedtime first. Start a night time routine (maybe start on the weekend so DH can help). I would do a bath, sing a song or do something else that relaxes them, give them a bottle, and then put your babies to bed in their bed. Try to do it when they seem like they are starting to get tired for the evening, or when they start to get fussy.

3.) Would you CIO at this point? For how long? I think one will do ok...the other will scream for hours
I would do CIO but not for a long time. I wouldn't let it last longer then maybe 10 mintues...or of they start to really cry hard...then I would go in and rub their backs....give a pacifier if they take one....talk softly, and then leave the room. I found with my son he did best when I laid him down when he was drowsy after his bottle...he usually went right to sleep on his own. I'm sure others will have better advice about CIO though.. I always just used my own judgement about when enough was enough.

4.) When will they stop waking at night? They are roughly 12-14lbs...One went to sleep by 11pm...up at 2...and again at 5. They get breastmilk during the day(I pump) and formula at night.
My son started to STTN around that weight. I have read that at 11 lbs babies physically should be able to sleep almost through the night, not that they always do. Yours should start soon....especially if you do a dreamfeed around 11 they should begin to skip that 2am feeding or at least not be up every 3 hours.

5.) How do I know they don't need to eat at night anymore?
My son skipped his 2 am feeding a few times in a week. I figured once he slept through a feeding a few times he didn't "need" it but was just getting up for comfort or routine. I would give him his pacifier for that feeding if he got up. I always did that one last late night feeding around 11, and once he skipped his 2am feeding for about two weeks I moved his 11pm feeding back to 10 and then 9 and then eventually to his bedtime at 8 and he would sleep through until 5am.

I hope some of this helps you. I know others may have much better advice. I know their is some book about sleep training that may help you....I don't know the name though. This is just what I did with my son and he was an excellent sleeper. Good luck....it's not easy figuring all this out!

 

I agree with the pp, very well thought out answers. The one thing I wanted to add is that if the screamfest starts at 7, you may want to try to put them down before then, maybe 6:30/6:45 before that cranky time hits. We do our last bottle at 6/6:15 and then right to bed, usually about 6:30/6:45. They do wake up around 10/10:30 to eat but we keep the lights low and treat it like it's the middle of the night. For us DS dropped the night feed first, about 3 weeks ago, and started sleeping 10p-7:30a, DD was eating at 4, then 4:30, then 5, 6, until she eventually gave up the feeding altogether last week. The one thing that I did do is limit the middle of the night feed to 4 ounces. It was enough to tide them over, but not get them used to a full meal. I think that made it easier for them to drop it, it just wasn't worth getting up for anymore. We started modified CIO at 3.5 months, we would lay them down, let them fuss for 10 minutes, go in and soothe without picking up, and repeat. DS got it quickly, within a few days, with DD it took longer, about a month. She still fusses for about 5 minutes at night before sleeping, but it's way better than walking the halls with her all night.

Good luck!!

 

QUOTE(megkc03 @ Feb 2 2008, 08:09 PM) [snapback]602613[/snapback]
1.) Where do I start with the sleep training? Start at naps? Or bedtime?
2.) We have no routine..should I just pick a day and try to train them to sleep, etc...?
3.) Would you CIO at this point? For how long? I think one will do ok...the other will scream for hours
4.) When will they stop waking at night? They are roughly 12-14lbs...One went to sleep by 11pm...up at 2...and again at 5. They get breastmilk during the day
(I pump) and formula at night.
5.) How do I know they don't need to eat at night anymore?


First off I don't think you have started any habits that cannot be broken. In the beginning we all have been doing what we can to survive! I know I did. My boys are about the same age as yours and they still sleep in swings for naps and often I have to rock someone to sleep. Trust me I am NO expert here, so I won't offer advice per say, but I will tell you what we are doing.

1.) We started at night. That is when I needed the sleep. Our naps are still pretty irregular around here.

2.) I think a routine is important, so I would start ASAP. When my boys started sleeping longer stretches at night. DH and I started a routine. We take them upstairs to their room for their 7:00 p.m. bottle. We first turn out the lights and turn on the mobile. We change diapers and then DH and I feed a baby and when they are finished, we put them in their cribs. Normally they go down without a fight (but certainly not every night). I think for us, the early bedtime is KEY. After 7:00, it is an absolute nightmare to try and mess with them. They are soooo tired by this point.

3.) I would not try CIO at this point. I think they are too little, but that is my personal opinion. I think if they are crying they need something, even if it is just soothing. I do let mine fuss for a little bit, but if they start full on crying I go in and try and pat them or pick them up if they need it. I know this is probably creating a bad habit, but I am not opposed to CIO later on in their little lives.

4.) Mine just stopped waking at night. One night I woke up and it was 5:00 a.m. and they had been asleep since 9:00. It scared the cr*p out of me, but when I ran in and saw that they were still breathing, I was very excited. After that, they started sleeping through. My babies weigh 14.5 and 15.5 pounds and are fully formula fed.

5.) I think when they start eating enough ounces during the day. My boys eat 5 times a day 6 ounces at a time which translates into 30 ounces a day. So maybe you might want to try beefing up their daytime feedings and that will help.

I hope things get better soon! Good luck!

 

First, Meg, you need a :hug99: and take a deep breath because 16 weeks is not too old to fix any sleeping issues! Far from it! I would adjust their age unless they were born more than one month early.

Ok here goes:
1.) Where do I start with the sleep training? Start at naps? Or bedtime?

I would begin with the hardest thing. Setting a bed time routine and getting that going well first then work to get them into their beds for naps and out of the swing. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

2.) We have no routine..should I just pick a day and try to train them to sleep, etc...?

Start your routine tomorrow and do it every night for the rest of their lives... for example, we started this early. We fed them "dinner" which was a bottle, and maybe some jarred veggies at 5 months. Then we took them upstairs and did their bath one at a time (remember, Dh was home alone so he was doing this). After the bath was finished and they were changed and powdered and played with... they would come downstairs for a little quiet time, and then the nightly "cap off" bottle. This is because they just had a bottle at say 6 and now were having another at 7:30-8 which was usually pretty early. Then myself or DH would rock them a little til they were drowsy and then put them in their beds. We switched them from their car seats at about 4 months because they were moving too much. We used a dark room, with a white noise maker (ocean sounds, they still use it today at 19 months old), and a swaddled blankie and a stuffed. They were not pacifier users. Then we waited to see how they did. Usually they did sleep. I did not CIO til they were older at 7 months, so don't jump the gun on that just yet.

3.) Would you CIO at this point? For how long? I think one will do ok...the other will scream for hours

Nope too young in my opinion. The screamer will probably not do it yet, but the one that will... well, give him a few minutes and see how he does. He might start sleeping through the screamer too.

4.) When will they stop waking at night? They are roughly 12-14lbs...One went to sleep by 11pm...up at 2...and again at 5. They get breastmilk during the day(I pump) and formula at night.

Patrick started consistently sleeping through the night at probably 4.5 months. Kevin took a lot longer. I would say NOW with him but he has been a CIO nightmare for me. I think you might have to go the long haul with the crier. At one point though, Kev was only getting up once a night, by 6 months I think and I eventually stopped going in to him. I still do not go in and he does still cry occasionally now.

5.) How do I know they don't need to eat at night anymore?

At 14 lbs I would say they don't and that they really are just used to the habit. But you need to establish a good bed time routine first. One thing at a time. Again, don't bite off too much here. Start with the bed time... conquer that and move on to nap time... then on to night time feds and CIO. :hug99: It will get easier Meg, I promise!

 

QUOTE
1.) Where do I start with the sleep training? Start at naps? Or bedtime?
2.) We have no routine..should I just pick a day and try to train them to sleep, etc...?
3.) Would you CIO at this point? For how long? I think one will do ok...the other will scream for hours
4.) When will they stop waking at night? They are roughly 12-14lbs...One went to sleep by 11pm...up at 2...and again at 5. They get breastmilk during the day(I pump) and formula at night.
5.) How do I know they don't need to eat at night anymore?


1.) Totally up to you! I'd probably start with naps.

2.) I'd just come up with a good bed/nap routine and start doing it - reading a story and singing to them, or whatever.

3.) I wouldn't try CIO until 4 mo adjusted age (and even for 38 weekers, I'd go with adjusted age). Even then it might be too early. So at this point, "sleep training" will probably mainly mean watching for sleepy signs, trying to get them down before they're overtired, and with a goal of them falling asleep on their own - but soothing to sleep if it doesn't work out. (And no, you're not creating bad habits that way. Babies that young really don't form habits.)

5.) Go by your instinct. HSHHC says that babies may need to eat at night until 9 mo. I don't think weight has much to do with it. When your babies are that young, I'd say it's hunger, not habit, and I'd be very reluctant to try dropping night feedings.

 

Thank you for the replies! I'm going to continue reading the book...and hopefully start within the week.

Right now I am annoyed because my mil is trying her hardest to get over here-at any time she wants! DH is sticking to his guns though! Yay! She wants the grandmother to come over(she's here from Italy). She's seen them plenty. She can go a day without. The boys are in the middle of their naps, so they will wake up soon, eat, and then back down.

So aggravating! But I am glad dh is listening to me! YAY!!!! I will keep you posted on the sleep thing...

BTW-Nicholas slept from 9-5am or so! Anthony slept from 10ish to 5ish....Slowly we are getting there...

 

My girls are the exact same age as yours, born 10/18!!!
I just started keeping a sleep log last week, I keep a notepad next to my bed and just mark the time each baby gets up and anything of relevance to see if I can notice any trends. They were only getting up once and then about 2 weeks ago they started getting up every 2hrs again! This past week has been much better (knock on wood!) and I have noticed a few 'trends' and can see who is waking up or comfort or for food.

Good luck!!