where do you stand on selective reduction?

The hot topics on the news this week have been around multiples and fertility treatments and it got me thinking. With higher order multiples you have the option of selective reduction to give the other babies a better chance. On the news the other night they interviewed a mom of triplets whose dr. wanted her to have selective reduction, and to just have twins. Her triplets are all doing very well.

So here is my thought. I couldn't make the choice to essential abort some of my children. I believe God is in control and ultimately his will is going to be done. I respect life, and that means all life. We all have challenges in our life, and yes higher order multiples would be hard, but it would come with it's rewards too. So I am against selective reduction.

Where do you stand? If you are for selective reduction, at how many multiples is it ok?

 

The hot topics on the news this week have been around multiples and fertility treatments and it got me thinking. With higher order multiples you have the option of selective reduction to give the other babies a better chance. On the news the other night they interviewed a mom of triplets whose dr. wanted her to have selective reduction, and to just have twins. Her triplets are all doing very well.

So here is my thought. I couldn't make the choice to essential abort some of my children. I believe God is in control and ultimately his will is going to be done. I respect life, and that means all life. We all have challenges in our life, and yes higher order multiples would be hard, but it would come with it's rewards too. So I am against selective reduction.

Where do you stand? If you are for selective reduction, at how many multiples is it ok?

 

I think this question is impossible to answer until you're in the situation. A taller woman can carry more babies than a shorter one, for instance. A "proven womb" can also handle more, most likely. What are the family's financial circumstances? How well prepared emotionally are the parents for multiples who all have special needs (in the event all are carried to viability)? How prepared are the parents to handle the reduction emotionally? How prepared are the parents for the possibility that the entire pregnancy will be lost without reduction? Sometimes that is more likely than others, depending on many individual variables. Is this a "last chance" pregnancy, which might make the risk of losing all the babies somehow worse for some parents?

I support the right of each set of parents to make the decision that is best for them, but I could never answer for myself without being there. And I would never presume to answer for anyone else, because I am not in their shoes.

 

Taking an innocent human life is wrong.

 

Unfortunately this enters a really difficult situation. Selective reduction may be wrong depending on your beliefs. Are fertility treatments god's way of creating children? Can you believe in one and not the other? I'm not suggesting that one is right or wrong, just something to think about.

 

quote:
Taking an innocent human life is wrong.


I agree... I am fortunate that I did not have to do IVF. However, if I had I don't think that I would have wanted to have more than 2 embryos implanted. A good friend of mine (who is also Catholic) told her RE that she wouldn't do selective reduction and in that case he will only implant 2. I think that is responsible of him as the Dr. and her as the patient to address the issue up front. I just can't imagine making the choice to hurt your own baby.

 

I feel it is an extremely personal choice and am glad it has never been an issue for me. I could never judge anyone and as a pp said I would never even think about it until the occasion arose.



Lana
Mom to Joshua and Rachel
15mo

 

In my humble opinion, I feel that women who use IVF & acheive 4 or 5 babies, are the ones who should choose this option. I know of someone im my area who has 12 children, then used IVF to conceive quads. They were born at 29 weeks, the heaviest weighed 2 lbs, they were in NICU for about 4 months each & are now at just 2, very "unwell" children. I feel it should be for the health & well-being of the baby only. No one should have to start off in life that way. I was devastated when mine came early, & spent time in NICU, they were 3 lbs each & have never had any health issues. I guess there are always going to be things in life that we all are not going to agree upon. It just seems unfair to me to bring a life into the world knowing they might not survive...

 

quote:
Originally posted by 8isgr8:
Taking an innocent human life is wrong.


While I agree with this, if there are three embryos and you are told that to reduce one will save two, keep them all and chances are greater that none will survive.... which choice takes human life? Which choice preserves it? It's not so simple.

 

quote:
Originally posted by 8isgr8:
Taking an innocent human life is wrong.


Ditto! I do feel that God will have his way. All though the beginning of my pregnancy with the twins they brought up selective reduction for Madison. She had a cystic hygroma, then severe IUGR, they kept saying something was wrong with her and that I should considering saving just Brooke. God gave me my babies and that is it, He has taken one and I can assure you that is not something I would have chosen for my little girl. I am a mother of an angel and would not chose to abort one of my children. Even if it risked them all. I strongly feel God is in control and I will not pick which child is more important. If one of my children had a disability due to their prematurity then we would get through it, I DONT believe a child is better off dead.

 

I can't reconcile believing God will have His way and performing IVF. If you believe God will have His way, then, if you can't get pregnant, isn't that His way? (Note: I'm not making a statement on my personal beliefs... I haven't stated those in this post)

Edited to state my beliefs - I don't think having IVF is going against God's will... I think it is a method God allowed man to create to help us overcome some of the obstacles we have created as man to fertility) My guys are fertility twins...so I have to believe this!

 

My Dr mentioned selective reduction early on for about 30 seconds. In our situation (having been told we couldn't conceive naturally & then doing so with quads & then having one vanish at 8w) it was not an option I was willing to consider. However that is not to say I wouldn't consider it if I were to become pregnant with HOM's again.

 

It should be the parents choice no matter & i cannot & will not judge someone who has or will do it, BUT if I were that parent my answer would be NO. They offered us to do that with Lilly, saying she wouldn't live outside the womb, she was sick & all that.and we kept saying no, we wanted to give her a chance. yes, she may not be with us now, but she gave us all a eye opener when she was born ALIVE & lived for 45 mins. To many people that wasn't long, but for my dh who got to see her & feel her. It was like she gave him a life time. We whole heartly feel that she saved Carter's life & because I got to carry her, she lived long enough so daddy could feel her love & strength. I still look back on delivery day & how when the doctors came in & said it's time to do an emergency c-section I balled my eyes out, because I knew as long as she was in me, she was alive.

it's all up to the parents who are carring these childrens. We shouldn't be the ones to judge someone for something they feel they need to do.

 

I too agree that it is up to the parents. I also feel that it is a doctors resposiblity to NOT put alot of fertlized eggs. I also agree that people should NOT be judged if they choose to do something like this, if they do it has to be a very hard decision for them.

 

quote:
I think this question is impossible to answer until you're in the situation. A taller woman can carry more babies than a shorter one, for instance. A "proven womb" can also handle more, most likely. What are the family's financial circumstances? How well prepared emotionally are the parents for multiples who all have special needs (in the event all are carried to viability)? How prepared are the parents to handle the reduction emotionally? How prepared are the parents for the possibility that the entire pregnancy will be lost without reduction? Sometimes that is more likely than others, depending on many individual variables. Is this a "last chance" pregnancy, which might make the risk of losing all the babies somehow worse for some parents?

I support the right of each set of parents to make the decision that is best for them, but I could never answer for myself without being there. And I would never presume to answer for anyone else, because I am not in their shoes.


I could not have said it any better myself.. So I say DIDDO!! Tracey

 

As a practicing Catholic, I take great comfort in the church teachings.....artificial b/c is not to be used...as well as ivf....a baby must be concieved in the whomb.....period. and in this stance, the church is very consitant.

"Taking an innocent human life is wrong."

I totally agree with this statement.

"While I agree with this, if there are three embryos and you are told that to reduce one will save two, keep them all and chances are greater that none will survive.... which choice takes human life? Which choice preserves it? It's not so simple."

Well, actually it is.....now...living with a miscarriage will be hard and have their own issues to deal with....but to take a life is wrong. There is the other side of the coin...can I live with myself for taking that life?

"I don't think having IVF is going against God's will... I think it is a method God allowed man to create to help us overcome some of the obstacles we have created as man to fertility)"

This statment can be applied to anything that has been created by man....alot of things are really bad...that does not make them good since God "allowed" it to be created. I am gald that the Church I attend gave the guide lines or the baby to be created in the whomb. Clears alot of lines for me.

As for judging....I am surrounded by people who do not follow the Catholic teaching....if I judged all of them I would live a very lonely life. I do not have to agree with what they are stating...that is different then judging. I will leave that to God.

 

quote:
Unfortunately this enters a really difficult situation. Selective reduction may be wrong depending on your beliefs. Are fertility treatments god's way of creating children? Can you believe in one and not the other? I'm not suggesting that one is right or wrong, just something to think about.

I originally posted before I read your post so I had to respond and add yours. It was well put and sure does give one something to think about. I never really thought about it from that perspective before. Thank you! Tracey

 

I couldnt reduce my babies. For they are babies at conception..no matter where that conception began..they are babies.

I got pregnant with Triplets..and the doctor mentioned selective reduction..and I told them NO way. God was going to take care of everything his way. I did end up losing one baby at 8 weeks..and it was a bittersweet thing. I could never choose a baby to be "aborted" but God knew that one of my babies wasnt well enough to make it on earth..and that baby is waiting for me in heaven. Personally I could never reduce..and dont support it but its legal..

Brandy

 

I don't believe in selective reduction. Granted I have never been in that situation before but I would never be able to "reduce" one of my children, no matter what the circumstance.

 

In my situation and with my beliefs, I would never do selective reduction. I can see some families choosing that because of where they are financially and because of health issues. However, I would rather have a child with a health issue than no children at all.

 

Strong and very personal topic.

quote:
Originally posted by 8isgr8:
Taking an innocent human life is wrong.

100% agree!!!



quote:
Originally posted by Lisa R:
Unfortunately this enters a really difficult situation. Selective reduction may be wrong depending on your beliefs. Are fertility treatments god's way of creating children? Can you believe in one and not the other? I'm not suggesting that one is right or wrong, just something to think about.



Are fertility treatment Gods way of creating children? I say YES! God is the creator of all life no matter if was because of the act of coitus or a Dr in a fertility lab.

This was an issue for us. We did use fertility treatments but only after being interviewed by the DR. The center we used has a strict rule that they will not advice coitus or they will not fertilize more than 4 eggs at one time for conception.

Our first pregnancy was originally triplets but at our 8 or 12 week U/S we found out that we were carrying twins. Our second pregnancy resulted in triplets and at 18 weeks we were advised that "fetus A" had spinabifida (sp?) and "fetus B" had Down syndrome. We were advised to consider reduction. This is where I wenr on a little tangent for a moment. The life growing inside me was not a "fetus" it was a baby and we let the DR know that in no uncertain terms should he call our unborn children fetuses again. In our opinion using this term just makes it easier for a Dr to seperate him/herself from the idea that this is human life they are dealing with. We also told this Dr that we do not believe in "reduction" or as we call it murder and he should not bring this option up to us again. He was set aback at this responce but had to accept our decision. We refused any furter testing and accepted what God had planned for us.

We now have 5 wonderfully healthy children.

I believe people should have a choice but that choice should be made sooner raher then later. Meaning either accept what may happen when you fool around or have fertility treatments or choose not to do/have it at all. JMHO.

 

Well, I hope I never have to face this situation but with IVF you just never know.

We are putting back 2 embryos. The chance that one or both will split is very slim. I really would not want to carry more than twins but I think I could do triplets. I know I could not physically or realistically handle quads but the chance of quads from 2 embies is like 1 and 100 million.

However, if we end up with triplets - we will not reduce. Financially we would be able to handle the situation and hire alot of help. I think triplets have a good chance of all making it and being healthy so that would be my main concern..

I really don't like the idea of SR but I also HATE the idea of children who are not adequately cared for and loved....Better to make a hard decision in the beginning - rather than make the kids suffer in the end!!

Erin

 

I'm 100% against it. I'm also against fertility treatments in which they implant several embryos or the drug produces tons of eggs in which as you know your chance of higher order multiples is great. I can never understand how someone can choose which of their babies will die. I would rather them all die naturally than to be responsible for the death of one. I could never live with myself. Cheryl mentioned her children being incorrectly diagnosed with spina bifida and Downs when her babies were in utero. This happens all too often. Can you imagine how many healthy babies have been killed? Cheryl, I'm proud of what you said to your doctor, especially the comment about how they try to separate themselves from the fact that it's a human baby in there.

 

Until you are in the siutation of carrying higher order multiples I think you cannot say one way or another..... I think (this is JMO) that HOMs are 4+. Are you willing to risk a lifetime of disability for all of your children? Are you willing to have 2 healthy children and not 4,5,6... that are sick? Are you willing to have no children? If you aren't standing in those shoes you cannot say. Other than those who say they will not stand in those shoes by avoiding any fertility treatments.

In most SR you don't 'choose' to 'kill' the dr and ultrasound specialized decide which to reduce. I researched this very carefully before we STARTED fertility treatments. And I will say again until you are standing there...you don't know

 

quote:
Originally posted by kma13:
Until you are in the siutation of carrying higher order multiples I think you cannot say one way or another..... I think (this is JMO) that HOMs are 4+. Are you willing to risk a lifetime of disability for all of your children? Are you willing to have 2 healthy children and not 4,5,6... that are sick? Are you willing to have no children? If you aren't standing in those shoes you cannot say. Other than those who say they will not stand in those shoes by avoiding any fertility treatments.

In most SR you don't 'choose' to 'kill' the dr and ultrasound specialized decide which to reduce. I researched this very carefully before we STARTED fertility treatments. And I will say again until you are standing there...you don't know


Actually I can say I know 100% what I would do in this situation. I believe every baby..no matter if sick..healthy..blue eyes or brown..they are all gifts from God. Prayer is a great healing factor..and I believe in miracles..so this would be totally left up to God for my family.

Brandy

 

I think it would be awful if a parent didn't want a child just because he/she was disabled in one way or another, but that's just me. Everyone wants healthy children that won't have to face hardships/obstacles. I don't think that having children should be a "picking and choosing" situation. I personally, would not be able to live with myself if I made that choice, no matter what any doctor says.

 

Simply against.

 

Selective reduction is one reason I was very relieved that we were told to go straight to IVF and not do IUI. We actually did do one IUI cycle, it was an IVF cycle that got cancelled and IUI was done, even though the chances were pretty slim, but I was told that there was only one follicle, plus we had male factor, so it was highly unlikely even one embryo would result.
The fertility clinic we used has guidelines that only two embryos be transferred in women under 35, and three after that, and only in certain cases at that.
Yes, with transferring two embryos there was a chance for quads, but the chances of that were pretty slim. If I were faced with 4+, I honestly can't say what I would do. I think where I stand is, I wouldn't do fertility treatment that could result in high numbers.

 

I'm definitely against it. I can see how some people may feel that they don't have any other choice but to allow someone to kill one of your babies is wrong.

One thing that has been mentioned a couple of times is whether or not the family can financially handle HOMs. I don't see this as an issue. If one of your main reasons for selective reduction is that you don't think you can afford to care for all the babies then you should put some up for adoption. Just because it's much, much easier to allow a doctor to choose some babies to kill in the womb than it is make the choice about which of your babies is going to go live with another family after they are born doesn't make that a better option.

 

Until you are in the situation, you don't know. You can believe one thing so strongly, but not understand the situation. And when you get there, things change. I did fertility treatment, and I constantly hear that what I did was wrong. My own grandmother said she would try and treat my children as if they were family.

We all believe different things, but I will never judge someone on something that I don't FULLY understand. I had 5 babies implanted, and 3 died. I think about those 3 all of the time (and I have a tatto representing them), but they are angels in heaven. And I have two healthy angels here on earth.

 

Interesting topic with good points pro and against. I have an incompetent cervix and my MFM mentioned that if things got complicated would I consider a reduction. I looked at him and said "Would you do the reduction?" He said "Nope, I can't do it for personal reasons!" And I looked at him and said "Good, because I can't and won't do it either!" We never discussed it again.

I look at Ian and Montana and I can't even imagine life without either one of them.

Personally, I can say I would not do that. But I can also say that I would not judge someone for making that choice. I have a hard enough time walking in my own shoes than to dare to walk in those shoes.

 

I was given the option and refused. However.. IF it had been my ONLY chance for children and the odds of carrying all three to viability were slim, I don't know that I would have made the same choice. I don't know how I would have chosen though. Some how eeny meeny miney mo just doesn't seem to fit. I feel horrible for parents in those types of situations.

 

Isn't Selective reduction, just an early abortion?

I feel that if you are going to do fertility treatments, you have to be prepared for all of the outcomes that may happen, having no children or 4+...either way, it is a chance you would have to take and I think selective reduction is wrong. You know in the beginning that there is a chance for higher order multiples....you took the risk anyway, you need to live with the consequences.

 

quote:
Isn't Selective reduction, just an early abortion?


That is what I have been thinking all along... Couldn't this be just as easily a conversation about whether one believes in abortion or not, since we are talking about a human life?

I am prolife, so I am opposed to selective reduction.

 

WOW the memories this brings up! I was faced with this situation and is was VERY DIFFICULT. When I was pg w/ my twin boys i had a lot of trouble and at 12 weeks was told by a specialist I MUST consider sel red. I was in total shock, we were told baby b is so small (through the entire pg he was always 3-5 weeks behind in growth). We were told he had some rare form of dwarfism and would be born dead or live only an hour or so! Ready for this, we ask how do you come to this conclusion, he says "seems like a case of bad luck, would you like to do the reduction today!!!!" i grabbed my purse through my kleenex at him walked out of his office (and reported him!). My regular ob/gyn just did not agree only said yes he is smaller but seems ok. Then onto specialist #2 she also brings up selective redu at 15 weeks, saying baby b is just way to small and not showing enough growth, you got it I walked right out of that office!! Dh and i NEVER even discussed it, it was just NOT an option, just b/c he's small why put my other baby at risk, and how could i kill my baby. No one could even find a definite problem. I could ramble forever but to shorten this story my reg ob kept close watch had 2 u/s a week never went to another specialist and was on bedrest for 4 months. I delivered at 34 weeks Jacob was 6#3oz and Matthew (MY MIRACLE)WAS 4#10Z NEITHER HAD ANY PROBLEMS AND NO STAY IN THE HOSPITAL!!! My thoughts are that doctors way to quickly bring this option up. It was very draining and difficult on me. Yes my matthew is still much smaller and may always be but i couldn't imagine life without them!!!