Where can I put them for time outs?

Hi everyone! I'm a lurker, but recently I've run into some discipline problems and I'm hoping that you MoMs might have some suggestions or strategies I haven't thought of.

My boys are nearly 2.5, and one of them is particularly energetic, contrary, etc. I think he would be called a "spirited child" (or maybe just possessed). His brother is much more easygoing, but they will egg each other on to worse and worse behaviour. They're wonderful, hilarious, adventurous boys, but right now I'm ready to waterboard them with a leaky sippy cup.

We had a Joovy Room[sup]2[/sup] in a small den off the family room, and have used that for time outs for the past year or so. We now have the problem that they get out of everything. So where and how do you isolate/contain them?

I've packed up the playard because it's mostly being used for gymnastics (flips off the couch) and dumping out the dirty laundry basket, as well as many many books. They don't have booster seats or anything they can be strapped into in the house. And they will get into trouble in ANY room alone. Seriously. Last week we were out of town and in desperation DH thought of trying a hotel suite closet for a time out spot. Possessed Child thought it was great fun!

I can't enforce a "naughty chair/step" and get him to stay on it while his brother is taunting him or getting into mischief somewhere else. I COULD bring a spare car seat into the house and strap them in it and turn it to the wall, but I'm afraid of them then developing a car seat aversion! I don't want to use their bedrooms for obvious reasons.

Short of duct taping them to a chair in the corner, I'm really at a loss. And other than time outs, I'm really struggling to find some efficient discipline techniques!

If the behaviour is fighting over a toy or something, I remove the toy. If somebody dumps something, I make them pick it up (though that hasn't seemed to deter them and it's been several months). If they don't make at least a token effort to help clean it up, it goes away for at least a day or two. The problem with some of this is that it's a bit unfair to the child who is behaving fine. I try to give him a little extra one-on-one time or something like that to make him feel as though he's not being punished as well.

But then I'm still stuck with how to discipline the other one?

Ex. DS1 dumps his dinner on the floor. In the past, I would put him in an immediate time out, then make him help clean it up when he returned, and then try eating again (and yes, I will make him eat the food from the floor--we have hardwood and I steam mop at least once a day). But now I have nowhere to put him, so he just wants to run and play. How do I stop him? How do I get through to him?

When he's been bad, he knows it. He will hide his face or close his eyes (I guess if he can't see me, then he must be invisible). I will get down on his level and try to get him to look at me. I will tell him "we don't throw food. Food is for eating." He doesn't care. I will ask him "Is throwing food good or bad?" He will say "Bad." I will reiterate the first part. But he will still do it again.

Any ideas?

 

I am going to say, I think you are doing the right things. I think at the age they are now, they are definitely testing their limits with you and it's going to be a lot of you doing the same things over and over again to no avail until one day, what you say actually sticks.
With the food, I would throw it out. Once mine started throwing food on the floor, mealtime was over and there were no snacks after that. They either ate at the next meal or waited until the next day.
As for time outs, I would try a spot in the house and when the child in time out keeps trying to get up, you add more time to the time out. If the other child starts egging the other one, I would put that one in time out on the other side of the room (in a spot where you can see both) and keep adding time until they sit there quietly for however many minutes of time out you have (I usually do a minute per year, so at 2, my kids would have been in time out for 2 minutes). For us, the bedroom did work. And I didn't call it time out...I called it cool down time, so the bedroom didn't seem like a punishment and after a dust up, me and the child in question usually needed space to cool down. My kids have separate bedrooms and neither one of them liked to go there for any reason besides a nap or bedtime.
And putting the toys in time out, I have a felt bad for doing so because it does take something away from the child who is behaving well but I make it general statement...if you listen to Mommy then this wouldn't happen, if you played nice...so and so on. And there are plenty of other toys for both children to play with, so I didn't feel too bad.
I also found, as angry as they both could make me, the less I reaction I gave them (me not losing my stuff) the less incentive they had to do stuff to incite that reaction from me. It's very hard not to be emotional when they are pushing your buttons but now that mine are 5, most of them I can respond calmly and find a place to vent to myself where they aren't around.

 

First of all, 2.5 year olds have the attention span of a gnat. Developmentally, they don't understand long term consequences--which is why I found time outs really didn't work until mine were over 3. It is fine for a cool down period, or distraction, but really doesn't affect long term behavior.

I would start going with more of a natural consequence. You throw your food, you obviously don't want to eat, so no more food. Going hungry will have more of an impact than getting to eat later--and as a result getting all of your attention. Missing one meal won't hurt him.

At 2 1/2, I used more of a consistent, distraction, technique, as I found that time outs at that age didn't really have an effect on overall behaviour (I know others will say differently, but I found it may change things for the moment, but they really aren't developmentally ready to have long term behavior changes at that age.

 

I agree time outs weren't as effective as natural consequences in our home. One time I was struggling with them taking their shoes off in the car and I told them we were going to McDonalds for lunch. One kid took off his shoes so he didn't get any. That consequence was remembered much longer than a time out!

However, to get the time out ball rolling (your boys sound a LOT like mine) I started one at a time getting time out established. Once I had a kid who would go, sit and calm down I worked on my other kid.

 

My girls are almost 2.5 and I don't think they understand time outs either. However, they do understand bad/good behavior. When one is bad, I tell her she is going for quiet time and I take her and put her in her crib for about two minutes. She cries usually. But when I go up there she apologizes to me and her sister and the behavior is a lot better again. Putting them in corners doesn't work at that age yet. Try the crib, if they are still in cribs of course, then they won't escape.

 

I agreed time out doesnt really work well at this age. But If you are consistent and tough, it will start working later when they are close to 3.

When my kids were at that age, I did time out and took away whatever they liked (museum, playground trips,..). And I have to tell you I always had to bring them back to our time out corner at least 3 times... But I made sure they believe that I had all the time to do so. Since this yr (when they were 33 months), I started a different time out. I make them lay down on the floor, face the floor, hands above their heads. Then I explain what they do is bad, and they are about to get how many spankings.(I know many parents dont agree on spankings but I dont spank my kids out of my anger or frustration.). And they have to stay down and think what they do is bad for at least 15 - 20 mins before getting spanked. I dont spank them every time they got time out though. Most of the time, they end up falling asleep lol. But once for a while, I do pull their underwears and pants down and spank their naked butts so they dont think that "oh mommys time out is just we only lay down for 15 mins). Usually I spank them when they do very bad things over and over again. It doest work 100% but 70-80%. They dont do many things that drove me nuts anymore.And we dont have much fighting over toys or what so ever... They do fight sometimes when they have way too much time together in the house. I would say maybe 1/week.

I understand that its so not fair if i punish both when only one got in trouble. But life is not fair. I always tell the good one that "the reason you get punished too because you didnt stop your bro/sis." Thats how it goes here. And guess what they are an awesome team now. They always play, laugh, talk together all day long if they are at home. I dont hear/see anymore yelling, fighting, hitting anymore. I remember about a month ago one night, I told them to stay in their beds and sleep. After I left, my son ran to the door and was about to open it. My daughter said "Nolan, dont do that, dont do that." Well, my method started working.

Right now, we are working on how to keep the house neat and cleaning up. Well I guess we still have a longg way to go lol. But they do help out with picking up toys and trash though.

It is a very tiring battle. But it will get better. You just need to be tough and consistent. GL!

 

Thanks for all the advice! I agree that time outs aren't very effective at this age, because they have the attention span of a goldfish. Or maybe that's me? Just keep swimming, just keep swimming!

My rule for food throwing used to be "once you start throwing food, you're done at the table." But I think part of me has this urge to make sure they eat because they're so active and they were preemies. It's ridiculous, I know. I think another part of me doesn't want to be the "mean mummy." DH works and travels a lot, so I'm totally their primary caregiver. I got into a few lazy habits with them over the past few months, between us being sick a lot and DH being gone a lot. I need to get back to better discipline and routine, and be a better model myself.

I try to be mindful about being authoritative. I no longer use "negotiation" language (ex. Can you pick up your toys, please? Is that okay?) and try to make them aware of dangerous, discourteous, or hurtful behaviour. I guess it's still about repetition, and one day hopefully they'll figure out they need to stop. I know they love me, but they don't respect me much. They'll listen to everyone else but me, and everyone has noticed that their behaviour changes when I'm there.

I wish I could find some part of the house that is good for this kind of time out purpose. We have 20 rooms and they're all either fun or hazardous or both! I will have to try a chair somewhere quiet, but I think there will be a lot of steering him back and resetting the timer!

 

When I had a two story house, I would make them sit on the stairs in time out. Time would start over again if they started goofing off or got up, etc. If they were both sent to time out, one went to the top step and the other sat on the bottom step. I didn't start that until they were older, 3.5 probably. Before that, I did what others have suggested, taking things away, ending dinner when they start throwing stuff, etc.

 

We never did time outs... they never really worked.

 

I do use their bedroom for timeout as this is the only place that I don’t have to repeatedly put them back and the other twin can’t bother him/her.
They are now 2.8 and finally the penny is dropping. They have no problem going for naps/sleeping/playing in their room.

As for food as soon as they start playing or throwing food I remove it and that is it. I was also concerned that they would not get enough nutrition, but have realised that they will not starve or wake up in the night asking for food.

I think it is all about knowing what you will do if they misbehave and being consistent. It is not always easy.

 

Well, FWIW... A couple of examples of what I've done the last few days.

Yesterday he threw his dinner everywhere. I told him to get down and pick it up, and if he didn't, he'd have to go to time out. He wouldn't do it, so I put him on a chair in the corner sort of facing the wall where I could still see him (but he was bored stupid and not part of the action, as he likes to be). I showed him the timer and said "I want you to sit here for two minutes. This will ring when you're done. If you get up, I will start it over again." He sat. Every time I looked over at him he shut his eyes as he knew he'd been bad. When the timer was up, he waited for me to get him, and I said "We don't throw food. Food is for eating. Please help me clean it up." He made a token attempt at cleaning it up, but showed no further interest in eating.

This morning he started down the same path. I did the same thing again, pretty much exactly. This time I also told him that this is breakfast, and he won't be eating again until snack time. This time he picked up his food at the end of time out, but didn't eat it. However, he left his plate on the table and I saw him going back to it about 20 minutes later, sitting down properly and eating. Progress?

Sigh...

We're also in the phase of moving from cribs to beds, and starting potty training. Fun fun fun!

 

My boys threw food for wayyy too long. It's better now, but they are still Neanderthals! I personally would pick one or two transitions and not focus so much on everything all at once. Like get beds and meal behavior under control but take them potty when they want to go just to start.

 

I would just focus on 1 issue at a time. You will go completely nuts if you work on 3 problems at once. Transition from cribs to beds is BIG. It will take them months to get used to beds and not throwing a party at bedtime. We transferred from cribs to beds at 17 or 18 months. Took them actually 4-6 months to not go wild in bedroom.

Potty training, ppl say it takes 3-7 days. But it actually takes more than a month for fully trained. It took my kids 2 weeks. But we lived on reminders for another month. Took them like 2 months to not have any accident. It was very frustrating.
Gl!

 

I've got no advice (and everybody else has such great advice!) but I wanted to give you a virtual hug for this! :hug: Some days (many) it can be so freaking frustrating to be the lead disciplinarian and then not get the positive feedback from the kids. It's the same in my house, the same in my friend's house, and my mother says this is how it was for her. I suppose this is where we fine-tune our martyr skill?

 

Yes, I know it sounds like we're trying too many transitions at once! To be fair, we've been slowly working on potty training for six months, and it's very casual. I don't plan to really invest time and energy into it until later in the summer.

One child has been sleeping in his bed off and on for a few months now, so he's fine. The other one will find the bed thing a relatively new experience, but he's also a better sleeper in general. Believe me, I wish the cribs could still contain them! But they're jumping/flipping in and out as a game right now, and I'm afraid one of them will try it in the middle of the night and half-asleep in an attempt to get to Mummy or something. Thankfully, they have been in their own rooms since they were 1yr adjusted so the party time after bedtime will be minimal. I expect clothes and books dumping, but hopefully they'll figure out that the cost-benefit ratio of that being a fun activity is negligible, when they're made to pick it all up the next morning!

Thanks for the advice and support! This is such a demanding age, both physically and emotionally. Right now I'd settle for getting some basic manners into them. When do they turn into compassionate humans, instead of psychopaths? 4? 6?

Now... how the heck do you get them from a building to the car in the parking lot (ex. rec centre). It's like herding deaf kittens with ADD. They want to be carried or they want to wander, or they won't hold my hand crossing the street, or they want to look at the drain/tree/cigarette butts/rocks. AGH!

 

Holding hands in parking lots:
I told my guys they have to keep Mommy safe in the parking lot so the cars and trucks don't smooch us like pancakes.
I say it just about Everytime. We have had out refusals and sit down protests.

Throwing food:
In the early days I had a "save it for later" plastic container for each child. Mine were throwing it to
Get attention from me. It is entertaining to watch me pick up cups, bowls, food, etc. so stop the show!
"If it is on the floor, it's garbage" is another fav saying of mine.

Bad behavior:
We were desperate for discipline solutions. Do what works (legally too) best for
Your family. Each child has a different personality so the dynamic can be so different.
We use some Magic 1-2-3. Timeouts for a 2.5year old should be super short.
The bottom of the stairs is one spot. The bookshelf area of the kitchen is another.
Just keeping consistent and having both parents on board really helps.
Good luck! And write down all the goofy things to look back and laugh.