What to tell mom of violent child?

Ladies... I need advice!!!

There's a boy in my daughters' preschool who is an absolute terror. I'll call him K. K is frequently out of control, can't follow directions, hits other children when the teachers aren't looking, talks about guns and hurting people, hits his mother, runs into traffic, etc. His parents have no clue how to deal with K, and usually try to bargain with him or just let him have his way. His mother told me once that she doesn't want to stifle his personality and would never yell at him, but she wishes he'd be better behaved. It's like she thinks that if she hopes hard enough but never disciplines him, he'll get better. He just turned 4 years old and has no older siblings, so this is their first try at parenting.

My daughters have told me that they don't like K, and Cricket said she's a bit scared of him. I have talked to the school before about K and the response was fantastic. I'm really happy with how the school handled the situation - they put my girls in a different group from him, they watch him closer on the playground, etc. Yesterday I told the school that I wasn't sure if my daughters would be attending the summer camp. The school director immediately asked if it was because of K. Apparently three other families told her that same day that they didn't want their kids in a class with K anymore. The school decided to intervene with the parents yesterday afternoon, so when I picked my girls up, K's parents were meeting with the director and teacher. I don't know what the outcome of that meeting will be.

What I do know is that I received an email from K's mom last night. Here's what it said:

"Hi Trish. Great to see you the other day! Picking up after school always seems like a rush and we don't have much time to connect. Thanks for lending me that book (I lent her Raising the Spirited Child). I am almost finished and I will get it back to you soon. K asked me to contact you to see if Piper and Cricket wanted to play sometime either tomorrow after school at the Children's Museum or this weekend or next week at the park? Warm Wishes, Kim."

What do I do? I have absolutely no interest in a playdate with her son. We did a playdate once about a year ago with several families and K hit another girl over the head with a huge tree branch while his mom sat there murmuring "K, be nice. K, please don't hit." My girls don't like him and I don't want to put them in a situation where they're uncomfortable just to help this other mother out. But how do I say that? I think K has a real problem and she needs to get him help. But I don't want to make her problem my problem, nor do I really want to tell her that my girls don't like K. Urgh. What do I respond to the email? I want to be a wuss and tell her we're busy, but she'll probably just ask again, and I'll be in this situation all over again.

Help!

 

I was thinking about posting the very same thing last week!!

One of my boys has a boys in their class that is very wild although not as much as the boy in your girls class but he has climbed on tables, knocks things over....). At the beginning of the year, we did a playdate at their house. I really like the mom but I could tell the boys were not going to connect with her son so I never reciprocated and had them at our house. About 2 weeks ago she called me and left a message that her son wanted to play. I told the boys and N said he did not want to. I did not know what to do. I ended up asking the teachers if they talk at all in class and she said they did not. I planned to make an excuse to get us to the end of the year but then I hated avoiding eye contact in the carpool line each time. We ended up having a really warm day last week and that morning, I called her and said we were going to the park if they wanted to meet us. They did. And now I feel that that was our get together time! I said when I got there I had a busy day so we stayed for an hour. Her son played with another boy at the park and my boys just played together! I felt like a ton was lifted off my shoulder and I never had to lie. I hated having to make an excuse so I was happy that this simple park date worked out.

 

If K was my child, I would want you to be honest but kind. I'd want you to say something like,

"I don't think it's a good time for C&P to play with K because K is, well, acting kind of brutish. He doesn't seem to play age appropriately and honestly, my girls are a little intimidated by his behavior. I know that you wish that he was better behaved, and I know you're working on it, but at this time, I'm going to say no. And I'm sure that this is going to sever our (your and my) relationship, but I have to do what is best for my girls and I don't want to make them feel intimidated or scared. When K is no longer hitting, spitting, throwing sticks, whatever horrid behavior he is doing, we can schedule a park day."

 

This.

Your girls' feelings are more important, so I wouldn't do the play date (they are too young to push them to do it as some empathetic/good influence gesture), and being noncommittal to spare her feelings is going to eventually result in hurting them anyway. Tell the truth as gently as possible and be clear that you are open to it in the future if she is.

 

I like what Bex said, but I honestly don't know if I would be able to say it. :blush: I would probably do something more along the lines of what Nicole did and make it a playground playdate where they didn't have to interact with one another. It's a hard situation, that's for sure. I think I would try to avoid them as long as possible until she got the hint that it wasn't happening. I just don't think I could tell anyone their child was mean or too much. I have a good friend who's son is a PITA and is always out to get my son (just likes to piss my son off) and I just took about seven weeks "off" with excuse after excuse. It may not be the best way out but I don't know if I could handle anyone telling me something negative about my child. :blush:

 

I don't have any advice, really~just glad to know I'm not the only one who has issues dealing with this type of situation. My neighbor across the street has three children who are TOTALLY out of control and she is oblivious. We've gotten together several times over the past year and it is always so stressful! I really keep hoping that we will move out of here before the weather gets too much nicer...just so I don't have to deal with the situation anymore. I generally just do the the avoidance dance, which is getting harder and harder to do. I look forward to reading other mom opinions on how to deal with this type situation.

 

The mother's email sounds like a cry for help to me. She is probably well aware that other families are losing patience and tolerance for K and she is hoping like crazy that OP is still open to having her children interact with him and that she understands their dilema (i.e. parenting style, K's issues). I say that because the OP did kindly loan her the book and it read to me like she totally used that as an opportunity and segue way into asking for the playdate.

I could be way off base, but my twins are my first and only and I have to say that parenting is by far the hardest thing I have ever done and sometimes I am absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt completely and totally lost. So, on some level I can relate to K's mom's apparent desire to connect with another parent in that way.

By no means though, do I believe that K's behavior is acceptable, nor is his mother's lack of effort to get a handle on the situation. That said, I agree that the OP should be as forward as possible and let the chips fall where they may. I think there is a way to handle this kindly and gently. Maybe something like this:

Thank you for reaching out to me about the playdate with the girls. I think it may be a great opportunity for the kids down the road but is probably not a good idea right now. I want to be honest with you because I understand very well how difficult parenting can be and I know that we all try to do our very best. Unfortunately, I am uncomfortable with the idea of our kids playing together because I have personally witnessed K display some behaviors that are not ok at my house and would not be acceptable from my girls. Also, one of them recently mentioned that they were afraid that K might hit them. While I know that you would never condone something like that, it is my priority to make sure that my girls know that I will make sure that they are safe as much as humanly possible.

So, I am flattered that your family would enjoy spending time with mine and I hope that that will be possible soon.

 

It sounds like a discipline issue not a child issue to me. I would have a hard time spending much time with a mom who doesn't discipline her child. I would try to find a kind way of wording that. It's not fair to "K" or the other children. I wouldn't make the girls spend time with a child who scares them. That's not going to do them or "K" any good, nor will it be fun.
I feel for your situation. I really wouldn't even try to get the book back. Sounds like she could use it for reference...

 

We are in slightly different situation with the same issues. My DH's best friend has out of control kids. They frequently want to come and visit but I won't allow it out of concern for my kids (they are extremely violent) My DH doesn't have many friends so the way I have worked around this is to invite the Mum around for coffee during the school day. That way I can show friendship and support my DH's friendship without the kids involved. She talks alot about how she can't handle the kids and we have actually gone on a parenting course together after some of these conversations. For me this means my children are safe but I can also offer support to this Mum. As a side note, one time when they did come round and one of their sons grabbed a knife out of my kitchen and threatened my DD they were told to leave immediately. Your own child is the most important person in any situation so don't feel you need to protect anyones feelings. Good luck.

 

Ditto below on a personal level.

Now professionally, I have no problem telling parents about struggles their kid is having. Sometimes it is my job as a teacher. BUT that said, often does it go over well- not matter how tactfully it is handled. Parents often, though not always do one of the following:

1.get defensive in general 2. blame it on the age 3. blame it on the other kids/ teacher/or school setting 4. say they know it is a problem but do little to change it or 5. acknowledge it is a problem and allow the school to contact outside support

so I would say all those are fairly evenly distributed...so 20% of the families allow the school to help with outside resources (local school, spec.ed. behavioral support, evaluations, behavior plans, etc) and follow through. It is tough. Most kids that will go on to public schools will need some experience learning how to function in a group & some that do not have discipline at home or have other issues (medical, temporary intense life changing events, etc)makes it hard.


Our preschool has had three kids like this. One family allowed for an evaluation from the school system. The other two were 1. the other kids problem- dont tell them how to parent & 2. said he is a boy and young.not a problem in their book.

All three had complaints from the other families, other kids, and at times were a safety concern. We had a few kids request moving classes.


A preschool has a few options, depending on how they are funded. Private preschools can have the student removed, public preschools may have to work with the family if it is a state funded program.



In your case, I would do what feels right for your personality and what is best for your kids!

 

Thank you ladies. I bit the bullet and wrote her an honest email. I basically copied what Bex wrote and put it in my words (so thank you Bex!):

Thanks so much for your email. I don't think it's a good time for P & C to play with K. My girls are a little intimidated by him - he's so much more active then they are and plays rougher. I hope I don't hurt your feelings by being honest... I really think K's a great little kid and I would very much like for P & C to get to know him better, but they've told me before that he scares them so I don't want to put them in a situation outside of school that would be stressful. I know you're working with K on impulse control and not hitting and stuff like that, so maybe in a few months?

She's not someone that I really want to be friends with, partially because we're different types of people, but mostly because I can't stand how she deals with her kid. I'll find out this afternoon what's going on with the school, but it's a private school so I suspect he'll be given one more chance and then kicked out.

 

You did a great job! I hope it works out ok for you and the girls!!!

 

I think you balanced it very kindly. Good luck tomorrow.

 

you did a great job on the email, I hope you have a good outcome, and hopefully they are able to work with him.

this isn't really related, but at church before I had kids (yeah no experience from me!) a mom would always sit in front of us and let her 18mo/2yr old kid talk and scream w/o doing anything about it. at this time i was ttc and b/c I couldn't have kids it was extra upsetting to me, let alone that it was disruptive to church. anyway, I had a fairly calm chat with her after the service one week, and within a few weeks I could really see that she was working with her child. And a while later she pulled me aside and thanked me, she knew that it was hard for me to tell her, and she was glad for that. I didn't do it to help her... it was truly just driving me crazy. anyway, I'm glad that it was helpful to her and her child was much more reverent within a short amount of time.

 

Yay! I hope that she understands where you're coming from (on top of the school "chat").