Vaccinations

As a FTM I feel as if I need to do everything just perfect. So vaccinating my children had never been a question in my mind. Then the other day I was at Lamaze and a mother brought up how vaccines were bad and that she wasn't vaccinating her child. Wow did that hit me like a ton of bricks. Since I am studying to be an anesthesiologist I had to disagree with her considering the medical viewpoint. So we got into a debate about whether or not babies or anyone for that matter should be vaccinated. I just wondered how everyone else felt about it. Are you vaccinating your children or not? And of not why?

 

I do vaccinate my children according to the regularly scheduled course of my ped. I think this is something where each family has to research both sides and make a decision along with their doc as to what is best for each of their children. There are many valid reasons not to vaccinate and can be evaluated on a case by case basis. For me, I believe vaccination has been the best course of action for my children.

 

I am for them and my girls will get them. There is a reason they make them and there is a reason that schools require them. The risks are small compared to what can happen if they get any of those diseases.

The only pain is that our insurance does not cover them (even though it is state law to have them) so we have to do something called Shots for Tots through our county.

April

 

Yes, we vaccinate all 3 of our children according to our pedis. regular schedule. We do because we feel this is the best thing for our family.

 

I think vaccinations are so important... One reason that we have not had to quarantine people due to TB (until recently) is because of vaccination. We have been able to eliminate many epidemics through vaccination. I will say this, however, I think when you are vaccinating your children it is important to do a little research on your own... There is a possibility of a link between vaccinations and autism and some behavioral disabilities (especially boys), but it is not a matter of not vaccinating it is a matter of timing and not giving certain combinations of vaccination together... This is of course still in the speculation/research phase of things, but it may be worth looking into.

 

i worked in a peds office where i gave children their immunizations, and they are very important. thats the reason that diseases like polio, mumps, and now even chickenpox arent around anymore, or atleast not nearly as often. If you stop vaccinating children, they can start contracting these diseases again, and they would spread like wildfire. i think that they are coming out with a lot of vaccinations, and i dont like the idea of my children being shot that many times, but i understand why they have to do it.

 

I will be the minority here and say that no I do not vaccinate my children, they have not a single shot in their lives and will never have one. Have you done any research of your own regarding vaccines? Also schools do not require vaccinations. Getting vaccinated isnt law and there are waivers (every state has them) that allows a fully non-vaccinated child in public school and/or daycare.

You asked why I dont vaccinate?? The reason is 1. the dangerous chemicals in them like thirmosal (mercury). The FDA claims that mercury was removed from the vaccines but it is still manufactured in it so there is still a small amount that remains. Also things like aluminum which is a neurotoxin, human fetal cells, formaldhyde(sp?), etc. I believe vaccines are one of the problems that many children face in this world whether it be physical, mental or behavioral. 2. The AAP says that a child that has an immediate family member with a neurological disease should not be vaxed b/c of health reasons, well I have a neuro disease. Mostly it is for the first reason, I found out about the second after we decided not to vax my girls.

I am not posting my views to start a debate, frankly, I have debated enough on this site about it. If you (op) would like to contact me personally you can pm me anytime. I would be more then happy to answer any questions.

ETA: This decision to not vax my children was only done after many, many months and late nites reading and researching different studies on each and every vaccine. I am still researching all I can on the subject and will continue to do so. This was not a decision I came to b/c 1. I am poor (which I am not) 2. uneducated (I have a college degree), 3. b/c I am too lazy to take my kids to the doctor (see the doctor for wbv) 4. anything else people assume about unvaxers.

 

I totally believe that vacs are necessary at some point. However, I think there is much research to be done of when a child should be vaccinated. Though I have vaccinated my other children on the recommended schedule. We will be using a delayed vac schedule for these babies. There are just too many what ifs out there that can't be explained. I want to give my children's nervous systems time to develop further before exposing them to vaccinations.

 

I definitely vaccinate my children. I actually threw a small whine-fest in the pedi's office when I found out the smallpox vaccine was only available via government stockpile for emergencies (re: germ warfare). Do your research, but keep in mind that correlation != causation.

 

QUOTE(angie7 @ Jun 14 2007, 07:20 PM) [snapback]292907[/snapback]
You asked why I dont vaccinate?? The reason is 1. the dangerous chemicals in them like thirmosal (mercury). The FDA claims that mercury was removed from the vaccines but it is still manufactured in it so there is still a small amount that remains. Also things like aluminum which is a neurotoxin, human fetal cells, formaldhyde(sp?), etc. I believe vaccines are one of the problems that many children face in this world whether it be physical, mental or behavioral.
And if you want to read a well-balanced debate on this topic, go to this thread, Vaccination Video. *Note: don't worry about the video link in the opening post (it may not even work) but read the actual thread. LOTS of information, on both sides. FWIW: (To alter Angie's post) I believe vaccines are NOT one of the problems that many children face in this world whether it be physical, mental or behavioral.... if fact, they SAVE LIVES!

 

My Dh and I have our feet in each side of this debate. We have decided to get some and pass on others. I also spread them out, one shot then three weeks until the next. I also break up the multi shots (when they group two or three together). We try to use our best judgment. I had a girlfriend choose not to vaccinate and Whooping Cough broke out in her town. She had to quarantine off her house for a month. She almost lost her mind. She now is getting some shots.
We are also pushing the schedule on a lot of shots. Our doctor is willing to work with us. The one I can't get broken up, and I have called 20 peds, is the MMR. We pushed that until 15-18 months.
Good luck, I hate shots!

 

Personally, I did not want to vaccinate. DH is a Family Practice MD who grew up with total homeopath/ naturalist parents. He and his siblings never got vaccinated once. So I expected DH to not want them either. But he insisted we get them done. He insists all the "bad ingredients" have been removed as a result of the studies. And he did have the hepatitis series put off until later. He said there was basically going to be no exposure to that as newborn anyways. So why torture their systems with something they didn't need at that point anyways. The other one he was against was the chicken pox vaccine. He has read some terrible things about possible side effects from that in his medical journals. He said he wanted to wait until they started school to get that, their systems would be more mature and maybe handle it better.

I have also deliberately separated out some so that they never got too many at once... .. I felt like it would be easier on them to give fewer at a time.

 

I do have my daughter vaccinated, but I've worked with my pediatrician to modify the schedule of when she gets them. I've read that a lot of the concern around vaccinations is that you are giving such a large, potent dose of something to such a tiny child or baby. My daughter will have all the vaccinations she needs in time to start school, but she's never gotten more than one at a time and although she's two - she has many left to get. There are a few that Dr.'s usually give to children when they are toddlers that are very safe for them to get when they're a little older. Luckily, my Dr. was fine with my decisions and we worked together to come to an agreement. I know a few people whose Dr.'s have snapped at them because they've told them they didn't want certain immunizations. Dr.'s know that most (or all) information that vaccines are "bad" is speculation and has not been proven.

Our daycare provider (in-home) had decided to only get her daughter certain vaccinations due to the research she had found. However, when there was an outbreak of mumps (or measles, I can't remember) in the area, she weighed the positive and negative and decided to get that one for her, even though she had already decided that was one she was not going to get.

 

QUOTE(mar66rus2 @ Jun 15 2007, 02:35 AM) [snapback]292932[/snapback]
In the state of Ohio it is the law. My daughter could not start Kindergarten without them and you have to have vaccinces done before 7th grade. Maybe there are ways of getting around it...I have not looked into it, but they will pull a child out of a school and tell them they cannot attend if they don't have their vaccines....I work in the schools and I have seen it happen!


I am not going to debate anything else that was said but I will comment on this. No, vaccines are NOT law. Your child DOES NOT have to have shots to go to school. They can not legally pull out a child for not being vaxed, no they can not refuse to enroll a child b/c they are not vaxed. Again vaccines are not law, every parent has the option to opt out of getting shots and their children can still attend school. A public school is state funded which has to follow state guidelines, and any child can attend school with or without vaccines as long as an exemption has been filed with that school. If you say it happened, then it was illegal and the parents didnt know their rights. It is against a person's civil rights to mandate vaccines.

I looked up your state of Ohio, you have all 3 exemptions, pretty easy to get a exemption in your state. Quote from your state "Any minor child, through the child's parent or guardian, may submit to the institution authorities certificate signed by the child's parent or guardian whose religious, philosophical, or moral beliefs are opposed to such immunization. The minor child is then exempt."

 

Both my boys were vaccinated on schedule and are up to date with all their shots. My new baby will be as well.

The boys have had their flu shots on schedule as well, and I can say, they have never had anything more than a little cold.

I am so glad I can do something to prevent my children from becoming ill. I could never live with myself if they got a disease, I could have prevented by a simple vaccination.

BUT of course, to each their own.

 

I was not vaccinated as a child. Religious reasons. Each year before the start of school we had to fill out forms and turn them into the school nurse. It was never a big deal. I could have continued to do this all the way through college too, had I chosen to. (For personal reasons I decided it was wise for me to get them before moving away to college)

I just wanted to chime in on the required/not required side of things. There are other exemptions too, this was just one of them.

 

QUOTE(angie7 @ Jun 15 2007, 02:06 PM) [snapback]293360[/snapback]
I am not going to debate anything else that was said but I will comment on this. No, vaccines are NOT law. Your child DOES NOT have to have shots to go to school. They can not legally pull out a child for not being vaxed, no they can not refuse to enroll a child b/c they are not vaxed. Again vaccines are not law, every parent has the option to opt out of getting shots and their children can still attend school. A public school is state funded which has to follow state guidelines, and any child can attend school with or without vaccines as long as an exemption has been filed with that school. If you say it happened, then it was illegal and the parents didnt know their rights. It is against a person's civil rights to mandate vaccines.

I looked up your state of Ohio, you have all 3 exemptions, pretty easy to get a exemption in your state. Quote from your state "Any minor child, through the child's parent or guardian, may submit to the institution authorities certificate signed by the child's parent or guardian whose religious, philosophical, or moral beliefs are opposed to such immunization. The minor child is then exempt."



Like I said before, I have been working in the school here in Ohio (and student taught in Michigan), and yes they do pull them. Not sure if you read the whole thing, but they have 14 days to show proof of vaccines, and on the 15th day they do not have proof or have attempted the exemption....then they are not to attend. I never said they didn't have exemptions either. I looked it up last night under the state's department of education website. It also states other exemptions regarding the vaccines. However, the school can and WILL pull a child out if the parent/guardian does not either do the exemption or present proof. So it is law with exemptions.

Not sure how easy it is to do the exemptions either. I have never met anyone that has tried to do it here in Ohio and I am sure every state is different. Usually those who have not done, just have not done....not so much they don't believe in their children getting them. They claim they cannot afford to get them...well in our county (and I am sure there are many other counties too that have this) they have a program where they are free. We use it b/c our insurance company does not pay for anything that is preventive. This includes their well-check appts too.

I do believe there are reasons for exempting vaccines. If it is truely religion then ok. If there is a medical issue with the child, ok.

 

QUOTE(KYsweetheart @ Jun 15 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]293429[/snapback]
Both my boys were vaccinated on schedule and are up to date with all their shots. My new baby will be as well.

The boys have had their flu shots on schedule as well, and I can say, they have never had anything more than a little cold.

I am so glad I can do something to prevent my children from becoming ill. I could never live with myself if they got a disease, I could have prevented by a simple vaccination.

BUT of course, to each their own.


DD has had the flu shot too the past two years. The first year she did get sick, but only once which was improvement from the years she didn't have it. She got it again in the fall and never fell sick execpt for an ear infection. She only missed 3 days of school this year. One for throwing up, one for an ear infection and the other to have two teeth pulled at the dentist. Before she would be out for a week at a time with the flu. I got the flu this year and it was not fun at all...I am thinking of getting the shot too.

April

 

QUOTE(mar66rus2 @ Jun 15 2007, 04:09 PM) [snapback]293578[/snapback]
Like I said before, I have been working in the school here in Ohio (and student taught in Michigan), and yes they do pull them. Not sure if you read the whole thing, but they have 14 days to show proof of vaccines, and on the 15th day they do not have proof or have attempted the exemption....then they are not to attend. I never said they didn't have exemptions either. I looked it up last night under the state's department of education website. It also states other exemptions regarding the vaccines. However, the school can and WILL pull a child out if the parent/guardian does not either do the exemption or present proof. So it is law with exemptions.

Not sure how easy it is to do the exemptions either. I have never met anyone that has tried to do it here in Ohio and I am sure every state is different. Usually those who have not done, just have not done....not so much they don't believe in their children getting them. They claim they cannot afford to get them...well in our county (and I am sure there are many other counties too that have this) they have a program where they are free. We use it b/c our insurance company does not pay for anything that is preventive. This includes their well-check appts too.

I do believe there are reasons for exempting vaccines. If it is truely religion then ok. If there is a medical issue with the child, ok.


Without an exemption, then yes the child will be pulled from school. In your original post you did not mention this is what you meant. An exemption MUST be filed with the school/daycare, etc in order for your child to attend X school.

 

QUOTE(KYsweetheart @ Jun 15 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]293429[/snapback]
Both my boys were vaccinated on schedule and are up to date with all their shots. My new baby will be as well.

The boys have had their flu shots on schedule as well, and I can say, they have never had anything more than a little cold.

I am so glad I can do something to prevent my children from becoming ill. I could never live with myself if they got a disease, I could have prevented by a simple vaccination.

BUT of course, to each their own.


I am glad that your kids are healthy, no one wants to see sick kids...But you make it sound like unvaxed kids are unhealthy and spreading diseases? My kids have had 2 very minor colds, both when teething. Runny nose and slight cough, not even a visit to the doctor for.

And I could never live with myself if my kids got something far worse from a vaccine then the disease itself...but like you said, to each their own.

 

I understand that immunizations can be a very emotional topic but can we please keep our discussion directed towards the original poster and conduct any additional discussions via private message with the individual with whom you would like to address?

Thanks!

 

My kids are all vaxx and up to date. Although there may be side effects, I do believe the risks outweigh the benefits in the end. My children were all born healthy and full term, no medical issues and religion is not an issue either for us to not vaxx and/or delay. They've never had a reaction to a shot either.

I always wonder how the world would look like if it was the other way around, if the majority would not vaccinate and only a small % did ...

 

All of our children have and will be vaccinated. In Texas, you can sign a wavier before your child enters kindergarten and the state will not bother you (as far as I know). However, without that wavier, your child cannot enter/stay school until all vaccinations are up to date. This from the state who's governor decided to make the cervical cancer vaccine mandatory. (the ONE vaccine I'm vehemently against)

We don't do the flu shot, though. I think there are people out there who probably need it more than myself or my (healthy) children, such as the elderly and people with disabilities.

Personally, I think it's one of those decisions that needs to be made between the parents, and after LOTS of research. I know there are kids that go to school with my son who aren't vaccinated. I don't know who they are, and I don't care. But, I would caution those who don't to keep in mind that you're not only putting your children at risk, you're possibly putting others in a potentially dangerous position as well. Chicken pox and the flu aren't a big deal, but the potential for something worse is always there. However, I'm SO thankful we live in a country where we're free to make up our own minds about these kinds of things.

 

We will not be vaxing our kids. My ds is partially vaxed, but when we did thorough research - we stopped all future vaxes. The twins will not be vaxed at all.
When I read a vaccine insert and it list SIDS at a possible side effect - no thank you. When every case of polio in the last 30 years has come from the polio vaccines - no thank you. When an 8 pound baby is given the exact same dose of a vaccine as a 6'2 210 pound grown man - no thank you. There are also vaxes given that unless the mother is infected with the disease, a child has almost zero chance of getting (like Hib B) - no thank you. When the same people that made DTP and said it was a "very safe vaccine", pulled it off the market only after they made DTap and finally admitted the number of severe side effects of the DTP - no thank you.
If there were a current epidemic of a disease, like polio - the benefit would outweigh the risk for us. But, the benefits don't outweigh the risk for us when our kids would have so little a chance of even coming into contact with the illness.
Then, when we found out "why" the chicken pox vaccine was created - that really sealed the deal for us on that one.

 

I don't think it is the chicken pox one that bothers me. They are now suggesting to get a second dose of it, but we oppted not to. They are also pushing for Hep A (I think....I can't keep track) which is not state mandated yet, but look for it to be.

I don't think everyone needs the flu shot either. Every spring though, Emily would get the flu soooo bad....she would have a fever for a week at a time and it would happen about 3 times. I was concerned about her missing school so that is why we did it....completely worth it. I too want b/c I work in the schools and am exposed to everything...though I think your systems builds up eventually. For someone like DH though, no...he doesn't need it.

 

I'd really like to know which vaccine can cause SIDS, because I've never ever read that. And the SIDS foundation doesn't mention it either.

The fact that our children won't be in contact with many of these illnesses, is thanks to the fact that the majority in the first world does vaccinate. Not because the disease itself doesn't exist anymore. In a world where borders are becoming less and less vague, the disease can easily come to you or the other way around.

In my home country, chicken pox is not on the schedule. It's not considered a major thing. Same for Hep-A (unless you travel to certain areas of the world or the other way around), which was introduced fairly recently in the US. My oldest was vaxx before that, I am not quite sure what I'll do with the twins, since we may move back to Europe before they need to get that.

 

We vax, but we're delaying some shots. The MMR, for example, will not happen until at least 18 months and possibly later. We're not planning on giving Varicella, either (Chicken Pox), ever, although we reserve the right to reassess as the years go by. I'd much much rather they catch the wild version of that one. Their immunity will be better, as it also will to other Herpes family viruses. Having had wild pox also lowers your risk of certain brain cancers. There's a variety of other reasons on this one; if you are curious, let me know and I'll dig up the info I found for you.

Colorado has a philosophical exemption, so that's what we'll claim for the Varicella immunization; you can, at least here, pick and choose which immunizations to get. That may be helpful if there are some you really want to do and others you find more questionable. It's not uncommon for vaccines to be given for a few years and then taken off of the market, so I for one would never get my kid a brand new vaccine unless it were life or death. Gardasil, for that reason, makes me very very glad I have boys.

To the OP: Do everything you can to research, and be aware that most of what you will find online is propaganda for or against. It's really hard to find good information on the topic, since it is such a heated one. I for one will be reading the linked "Vaccination Video" thread mentioned earlier; it never hurts to get more info.

 

Hi I just came across your post (I hope I'm not coming in really late it said posted yesterday) and I don't have time to read all the way though but I did see that a debate was going on. I also do not vaccinate. I didn't start out that way and I'm not going to go into all the details but I think I need to state that I also feel this way. I do not ever tell anyone not to vaccinate their children, it's a very personal decision, but when I started checking into some of my family genetics and some of the problems that run in my family (my own brother) I realized that vaccines were not for my kids. Like I said I didn't read everything but that was posted but I also have to say that vaccinations are not the law, but millions of dollars are made every year off them and most Docs. Have been trained not to think anything but just do it. I have actually been told by a pediatrician, after telling him about my fam., that it would probably be wise not to do it.

I'm not telling you not to but I do have one suggestion. Check it out. Whenever a question strikes me hard like vaccines did you, I check it out. You need to follow those kinds of things. One book I found very helpful and not too bias (I don't like things that are so one sided) was "What your Doctor Might not tell you about Vaccines" or maybe it's immunizations. It's really informative about the different kinds and how they are each made and so on. I don't think that everyone needs to do the same thing but I do think that everyone needs to be educated. Too often we rely on others to make our decisions for us without any knowledge of what we are actually doing. Not too long ago there was a whooping cough break out, my friend made the comment that they need to start immunizing for that again. Actually they never stopped, the whooping cough immunization is called pertusis (spelling?) and is in the DPTa shot. I don't call that being educated, I call that thinking you are a good mom by being up to date on your shots.


teeniemomx3

 

Wow! It got interesting in here!

I just wanted to let OP know that I chose to vaccinate my son. He recieved all of them. I was a little worried about two vaccines. I really did not want him to get the varicella (chicken pox) but since his daycare required it and we were having a huge outbreak at the time, I decided to get it. (My plan was to refuse, but I was pregnant at that time, and it's very dangerous to the fetus.) So in short he's fine now, but it was really a mute point as I lost that pregnancy anyways. My BIG HUGE push was to hold out on his MMR. Studies do show that the earlier a child get's his MMR, there is a direct link to autism. Now, I will be honest, I have not researched that very much, but even my pedi agreed there was a correlation after I asked about it. So in our talk, I asked to wait until DS was 15 months.... he said he would wait until 18 months because that's when I probably got the vaccine. So hey I got more than I asked for.

Now in response to someone saying that vaccines are mandatory. They are not, no matter what state you live in. THat's why parents have to sign a consent. If it was truely mandatory... there would be no consent. Also your child can attend public school, you are just required to fill out the proper paperwork. Now, there are certain reasons that a vaccine may be refused for and that does vary from state to state. But it only requires a little research to find those reasons.

I hope your decision to vaccinate or not to vaccinate is just that.... your decision. It's great that you are asking us what we did, but PLEASE don't base your decision on what we say.

 

This is what I found with the state of Ohio. It gets kind of confusing. It does have exemptions, but it is pretty much saying that if you don't show proof of vaccines or fill out the paperwork for the exemption, then the student can be pulled from the school (at least from my understanding, but maybe I read something different cause towards the end it gets confusing when it comes to changes).

http://www.lsc.state.oh.us/membersonly/126immunization.pdf

 

after many hrs of research we have decided not to vaccinate. its a decision each parent has to make for their child and i would advise you to do your research, as there are many pros and cons to vaccinating. many docters do not explain what could happen or what is in the vaccinations, they just say its time for their next vaccination and give them the shot. we feel that many are unnessesary as many of the vaccinations are for diseases that were long ago, that can be treated now with antibotics or just run their course. the reports of children getting sids, seizures, autism, etc. after their vaccinations is just scary. this is just something you have to research on your own and then decide.

 

The only current vaccines I believe I have a problem with is the chicken pox vaccine but it's so prevalent now that you basically have to get it or be at high risk of catching chicken pox as an adult or teenager. I'm against any vaccine that has to do with a sexually transmitted disease but we would definitely vaccinate our children against diseases that can be spread through touch and the air. It's just not worth it not to.

 

QUOTE(BDFDGirl (Heather) @ Jun 16 2007, 01:42 AM) [snapback]294364[/snapback]
Studies do show that the earlier a child get's his MMR, there is a direct link to autism. Now, I will be honest, I have not researched that very much, but even my pedi agreed there was a correlation after I asked about it.


Correlation does not equal causation, and if your doctor actually told you there is a definite link, your doctor is frighteningly misinformed. Studies cannot find any concrete link, much less a direct one. In Japan, for instance, the MMR has been discontinued, and autism rated have increased, not decreased. There's a lot of this false information floating about on the internet, however, linking MMRs and autism. Here's what the WHO has to say on the subject: http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/mmr/mmr_autism/en/

Edited to get the poster's name correct in the quote

 

QUOTE
Correlation does not equal causation


This is exactly why we are still vaccinating. However, it is also why we are delaying. Since there is a correlation and plenty of evidence to support a correlation, I would rather wait until I know their nervous systems are more mature before exposing them to something that could damage it.

I have two nephews and a neice that are effected to some degree by autism. My neice is very "rain man" like. My nephews have serious social issues. How and why this happened, who knows. But with an apparent genetic link in my family, I would rather wait.