Update---with questions

Last week I posted about my kids' sleeping, or lack thereof. The main issues were that they went down really well--no crying or fussing. The real problem starts when they (but mostly my DD) wakes up after 10 minutes and starts howling! I got some great feedback from you gals....and a lot of you sound like you're in the very same boat. One of the most common suggestions was to read and follow HSSHC. Well, I did and we're in the midst of it all right now. I'm doing my darndest to follow the guidelines, but here's where I get hung up:

It says if the nap is under one hour, it doesn't really count as a nap. The book also says that if the babies have been asleep for less that 30 minutes to try and leave them in the crib to see if they'll go back to sleep---but to let them cry for no longer than 1 hour. Well, my Eloise has figured out in a very short time to cry for the entire hour. When I finally go get her, she is beyond tired (I am making sure to put them down at the first signs of drowsy) so she usually starts to fall asleep in my arms or the swing in just a few minutes. So I'll try to put her back in the crib so she'll sleep there instead of on me. Then we repeat the entire cycle again. and again. and again. This has been going on for 4 days now. All I do is try to get her to sleep. And all she does is cry. My DS on the other hand is doing just fine. He's going down without a fuss and staying asleep for more than 30 minutes most of the time. What do I do with her? Where am I going wrong?

Now our nighttime issues... We've got a good bedtime routine, and the babes are going down around 6:30-7:00. They both fall asleep, but of course DD wakes up a short time later and starts crying. HSHHC says to let them cry until they fall asleep at night, or else they will learn to cry until the point you come get them (which of course she's already figured out at nap time). So I will let her cry until she goes back to sleep which can be up to 90 minutes. She finally sacks out until I feed them around 11:00 and goes back to sleep after that feeding with no problem. They used to sleep until 4 or so but since starting the new routine they now wake up at 2:00 to eat as well!! Do I let them cry that one out....or feed them. They wake up again at 5:00 to eat. So, we're back to only 3 hours between feedings at night.

So, those are the issues. Here's what I need to know. What am I doing wrong? Am I pushing something on them that they are not ready for? (I personally think 5 months is old enough to CIO, because falling asleep isnt the problem. It's staying asleep.) How long until I start seeing some results? I just hate that my dd spends more of her day crying than anything else. Any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Reyna

 

I am really no help, my daughter falls asleep fine but wakes up at midnight, feeds and then again at 3 to be soothed and back down. I know that it is tiring but i can listen to so much before i have to go in and sooth her. I NEVER pick her up unless she gets to eat. i talk calmy to her and turn her rainforest soother on. Keep up the good work it will all come together...

 

Reyna,

Is your DD swaddled? I know it can be tough to keep them in a swaddle at that age but I swear it helps them feel more secure. We use the miracle blankets and for DS I just swaddle him under the arms. I am wondering if she feels more secure with something close around her i.e. your arms, the swing, etc.. Also, I finally had to put my DS on his belly and I know that is not recommended but he can lift his chest off the mattress and turn his head freely and it really has helped...I think. He is one of those babies that has to be held for a few before being put down. It sounds like your DD likes a cuddle and my DS is definitly a cuddler. I put him down drowsy but awake and can imagine that it would feel different/upsetting to be held all cozy up to mom's chest and then be laid down on your back with your front side all wide open and exposed. I imagine laying belly down feels more snuggly to him after being held, KWIM?

I am sorry that is not much help...especially if you are already swaddling!

I hope you get it figured out soon.

Amy

 

I cant help with naps because it took forever for mine to become good nappers but this is what we had to do at night. I may have cut and pasted this for you before...I dont remember! It is just easier to do this then retype!


Around 5 1/2 months, I decided to try CIO. Before doing CIO, my boys would have their 7:00 bottle and then go to bed. Then they woke between 10-12am for another bottle AND then 2 times during the night. I came to the realization that they did not need to be eating that much at night anymore. They had 4 6-8 oz bottles during the day and solids twice a day. I finally realized they are eating out of habit and I could not do it anymore physically. My boys are big boys and were in no way lacking nutrition!

I decided that I would give them one bottle each after their 7:00 bottle if they woke up crying and then if they cried anytime after that, I just let them cry. We did that for about 2 weeks. After the first night of not feeding them after their last late night bottle, during the day they began to drink 8 oz consistently rather than sometimes 5 oz. Then, after those two weeks, we did a true CIO after their 7:00 bottle to eliminate all night feedings. They cried a little during the night but I just left them and they ended up sleeping anywhere between 6-7. When they woke in the morning, they were happy and not crying of hunger. That proved to me that they were eating out of habit.

So officially, I would say 6 months and 1 week until completely sleeping throught the night.

Also interesting was that I have heard if they wake to eat even if it is just a little, it is out of habit. My boys though were eating a lot at night. Well, I stopped feeding them anyways. My boys were in the higher weight percentile and my Dr. said they wont turn into skeletons if I didnt feed them in the middle of the night! So, even though my boys drank full bottles at night, with a few days of CIO, they didnt wake to eat anymore.
-------------------------
Here are notes from my journal during this time:

On Tues, when they usually wake for their 1st middle of the night feeding, I let them CIO. I did not feel bad at all when I heard them cry. THis is because I knew they just ate and diaper changed. One slept right through the others cry and then the next hour the reverse happened. I also did not feel bad because I made the decision to CIO because I was so tired and it felt great to not get up and get a bottle! They basically cried on and off throughout the night.

The next night, they slept until 4 (huge for us!) and then I had them CIO. They woke at 6:00 and were ready for their bottle. The good thing is they ate 4 8oz bottles that day. They had room since they were not getting calories at night.

Last night they woke at 5:30 and i had them CIO until 6:00.

-----------------------------------------------
We never went in to sooth them. I always felt like that would be taking a step backwards and they would expect me to come in when they cried. I wanted them to teach themselves how to fall asleep on their own and how to go back to sleep on their own after waking inthe middle of the night.

They sleep through each others cry to this day.

 

Hi Reyna - I'm not much help but I wanted to let you know that our girls' were good sleepers (in my opinion) until about 3 weeks ago, and then all &^*( has broken loose. We used to be able to feed them, swaddle them, and put them down awake, and they'd sleep upwards of 6+ hours; now, it takes me an hour or more of nursing before they will go down, then sometimes more, and they have been waking up anywhere from 1 1/2 hours to 3 hours at night. I can't remember the last time I've gotten more than 4 hours of sleep in a row, and I'm starting to get cranky!

I wonder if it isn't a developmental thing - my girls' are into looking at everything and so maybe they just don't want to go to sleep -- too much to look at? Or maybe they are teething -- my girls' chew off their hands, drool everwhere, and their gums are red? Or maybe it's because we are fighting colds too right now?? I don't know. I guess I don't want to do CIO, so I'll just deal, hopefully it'll change sometime soon. I did go buy the no-cry sleep solution, which seems to have some good ideas, but doesn't seem to make much difference right now.

Just wanted you to know we are in the same boat here. Hope we all get some sleep soon!

Erica.

 

I'm in a similar situation with my James. He used to be my super star night sleeper and now I'm up with him at all hours. There's no real pattern to when/why he's waking. One night he won't wake and then the next night I'll spend 4 hours with him. I've tried letting him cry but it seems to make both of us more upset. Now when he wakes I quickly moved Evan to the pack and play in our room (because I know he'll wake within 2 minutes of James crying) and then I pat James' bum and shush him. I'm so tired but I don't know what else to do. James is a decent napper (most days) but not a great night sleeper and Evan is the opposite.

Has anyone ever turned poor sleepers into good ones without the use of CIO? I'm just too weak for it.

 

QUOTE(ahmerl @ Sep 19 2007, 05:31 PM) [snapback]414668[/snapback]
Reyna,

Is your DD swaddled? I know it can be tough to keep them in a swaddle at that age but I swear it helps them feel more secure. We use the miracle blankets and for DS I just swaddle him under the arms. I am wondering if she feels more secure with something close around her i.e. your arms, the swing, etc.. Also, I finally had to put my DS on his belly and I know that is not recommended but he can lift his chest off the mattress and turn his head freely and it really has helped...I think. He is one of those babies that has to be held for a few before being put down. It sounds like your DD likes a cuddle and my DS is definitly a cuddler. I put him down drowsy but awake and can imagine that it would feel different/upsetting to be held all cozy up to mom's chest and then be laid down on your back with your front side all wide open and exposed. I imagine laying belly down feels more snuggly to him after being held, KWIM?

I am sorry that is not much help...especially if you are already swaddling!

I hope you get it figured out soon.

Amy





My babies are both swaddled, and that definitely gets them in the mood to sleep. It just doesn't seem to stop them from waking up again shortly after they fall asleep. Thanks so much for the suggestion though....I appreciate it!

 

QUOTE(seamusnicholas @ Sep 19 2007, 05:39 PM) [snapback]414687[/snapback]
I decided that I would give them one bottle each after their 7:00 bottle if they woke up crying and then if they cried anytime after that, I just let them cry. We did that for about 2 weeks. After the first night of not feeding them after their last late night bottle, during the day they began to drink 8 oz consistently rather than sometimes 5 oz. Then, after those two weeks, we did a true CIO after their 7:00 bottle to eliminate all night feedings. They cried a little during the night but I just left them and they ended up sleeping anywhere between 6-7. When they woke in the morning, they were happy and not crying of hunger. That proved to me that they were eating out of habit.

So officially, I would say 6 months and 1 week until completely sleeping throught the night.

Also interesting was that I have heard if they wake to eat even if it is just a little, it is out of habit. My boys though were eating a lot at night. Well, I stopped feeding them anyways. My boys were in the higher weight percentile and my Dr. said they wont turn into skeletons if I didnt feed them in the middle of the night! So, even though my boys drank full bottles at night, with a few days of CIO, they didnt wake to eat anymore.
-------------------------
Here are notes from my journal during this time:

On Tues, when they usually wake for their 1st middle of the night feeding, I let them CIO. I did not feel bad at all when I heard them cry. THis is because I knew they just ate and diaper changed. One slept right through the others cry and then the next hour the reverse happened. I also did not feel bad because I made the decision to CIO because I was so tired and it felt great to not get up and get a bottle! They basically cried on and off throughout the night.

The next night, they slept until 4 (huge for us!) and then I had them CIO. They woke at 6:00 and were ready for their bottle. The good thing is they ate 4 8oz bottles that day. They had room since they were not getting calories at night.



First of all--thank you for that reply. I appreciate all the detail--it helps so much! Secondly--you kept a journal of it all...amazing!! Now, I've got one more question about cutting out the extra nighttime feedings. I am a little hesitant to push that issue because my babies are on the small side, so I for sure don't want to deprive them of calories if they need it...BUT...They are regressing to eating every three hours again. I am getting up to feed them in case it's a growth spurt, but mostly I think they wake up for other reasons and then decide to have a snack. If I let them cry through the 2 am wake-up, then feeding them at 11:00pm and 4:00am should be enough, right? It sounds like your boys did just fine with that...but they were also big. What do you think?

Reyna

 

QUOTE(TwinsInOkinawa @ Sep 19 2007, 05:58 PM) [snapback]414715[/snapback]
Hi Reyna - I'm not much help but I wanted to let you know that our girls' were good sleepers (in my opinion) until about 3 weeks ago, and then all &^*( has broken loose. We used to be able to feed them, swaddle them, and put them down awake, and they'd sleep upwards of 6+ hours; now, it takes me an hour or more of nursing before they will go down, then sometimes more, and they have been waking up anywhere from 1 1/2 hours to 3 hours at night. I can't remember the last time I've gotten more than 4 hours of sleep in a row, and I'm starting to get cranky!

I wonder if it isn't a developmental thing - my girls' are into looking at everything and so maybe they just don't want to go to sleep -- too much to look at? Or maybe they are teething -- my girls' chew off their hands, drool everwhere, and their gums are red? Or maybe it's because we are fighting colds too right now?? I don't know. I guess I don't want to do CIO, so I'll just deal, hopefully it'll change sometime soon. I did go buy the no-cry sleep solution, which seems to have some good ideas, but doesn't seem to make much difference right now.

Just wanted you to know we are in the same boat here. Hope we all get some sleep soon!

Erica.




Erica....maybe it IS a developmental thing. I can't remember the last time I slept for more than four hours. I hear you on the getting cranky part! Thanks for the support.

Reyna

 

Gosh, it is hard to say. I think I was so comfortable since they were big. If they were not as big as they were, I dont know what I would have done. I would think 11 and 4 would be good but I cant say for sure.

 

Are you waking them up to feed them at 11? Or are they waking on their own? I stopped that forced feed and it really helped - not long after they went through the night - 7 to 7.

 

QUOTE(AimeeS @ Sep 20 2007, 01:35 AM) [snapback]415353[/snapback]
Are you waking them up to feed them at 11? Or are they waking on their own? I stopped that forced feed and it really helped - not long after they went through the night - 7 to 7.



I am waking them up at 11:00 to eat about half the time...the other half they wake themselves up. Maybe I'll let them sleep and just let them wake up on their own at some later point. Thanks for the advice.

reyna