update: excited & nervous

for those who are interested, here's an update on how our sleep training is going -

the first thing we've implemented is a regular bedtime routine. i start baths at 6:00pm, then they get changed into their jammies and their hair brushed. then around 6:40pm i nurse them & burp them. just before 7:00pm, DH takes Danika & i take Riley. we swaddle them, sing to them for a couple of minutes & then into their cribs awake.

we started on saturday night. both girls cried for about an hour & a half. we did a modified check & console - we'd go in every 5 min & stay for 2 min shushing & patting. then the intervals gradually got longer until they were asleep. they also both get a dreamfeed now at around 10:30pm. they've generally been waking up again around 3:00am for another feed. any night wakings that aren't hunger related, we waited 20 min before going in & shushing & patting for 2 min. then i got them up at 7:00am & nursed them in a nice bright room.

sunday night was much better - they both only fussed gently for about 30 min.

monday night was a little bit longer, about 45 min of fussing.

our sleep consultant said that tonight could go either way - they'll either go down with little to no fuss, or it may be worse than the first night (she said that the fourth night is often a regression). but from here on out it should be fairly smooth sailing.

once the night sleep is going really well, we'll begin working on getting their daytimes more scheduled.

then once they're old enough/weigh enough, we'll be working on getting them to STTN.

i'm very pleased with how things are going & am glad to be implementing a more dependable & predictable schedule. if anyone has any questions, feel free to post them in the thread or PM me, and i'll try to answer them as best i can.

 

I'm curious. I don't mean to offend, but isn't it a bit backwards to try to adjust night time before day time? And why think about 'working' on getting them to STTN when they're only 3 months? I guess for me babies will STTN when they're ready, and I'm not sure it's really good for them to make them STTN before they're really ready... And IMO at 3 months they're too young to CIO.

 

I think this sounds great, I would totally love to hear the results. I am kind of in a bind myself right now b/c one of my girls is being a pain in the a** with her passy. I am trying to get away from feeding them at night anymore but in a nicer way than cio (not that i am against that at all but i just don't want my other 2 to wake up as well). So to avoid that I have been giving her the passy when she wakes up and she will usually go right back to bed but now it happens a few times a night so I feel like I am regressing. I guess I might just have to bite the bullet and do cio and hope the rest of the house doesn't wake up. Please let us know how this goes I could always use sleep tips!!!

 

WOW--can this really work--Ill try anything. My twins are 6 months old and are still getting up twice a night!!--AHHHH the insantity

 

QUOTE(Fran27 @ Oct 14 2008, 06:03 PM) [snapback]1026404[/snapback]
I'm curious. I don't mean to offend, but isn't it a bit backwards to try to adjust night time before day time? And why think about 'working' on getting them to STTN when they're only 3 months? I guess for me babies will STTN when they're ready, and I'm not sure it's really good for them to make them STTN before they're really ready... And IMO at 3 months they're too young to CIO.


well, as i understand how sleep develops, night time sleep is the first to consolidate & get sorted out. day time takes longer & is more work. that's what i understood from Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child but i expect there are other theories out there.

well, we're not going to be getting them to STTN yet - they are too young for that, they still need to eat at night. but when they are old enough to STTN, then we will guide them to do that. i disagree that babies will STTN when they're ready. or, they will eventually, but as i understand it most experts agree that it's between 3 - 4 months old that babies become physically capable of STTN and i feel that it's important to teach my babies to sleep well as soon as possible and to stop getting up at night to eat out of habit & not need.

regarding the CIO, that'll be something we'll have to agree to disagree on. for me, it's more of a priority to teach them to sleep & to sleep well, than to keep them from crying.

 

QUOTE(april6603 @ Oct 14 2008, 08:12 PM) [snapback]1026592[/snapback]
WOW--can this really work--Ill try anything. My twins are 6 months old and are still getting up twice a night!!--AHHHH the insantity


it does seem to be working - although, we aren't aiming to get the girls to STTN yet as they still need those night time feeds to get all the calories they need. but for implementing a schedule & getting them to sleep well in their cribs it is working. tonight both girls fussed for less than 5 minutes. we've heard a couple of peeps out of them since then, but nothing major.

when we get to the point where they're ready to STTN, i'll update then as well so maybe i can have some more info for you.

the thing is, we're working off of a personalized sleep plan that our sleep consultant put together for us, so i wouldn't want to say that you should do things exactly the same as us as your situation might be different. if you'd like, you can check out her website at www.cheekychops.ca.

 

QUOTE
regarding the CIO, that'll be something we'll have to agree to disagree on. for me, it's more of a priority to teach them to sleep & to sleep well, than to keep them from crying.


Did you know that the ability to self-soothe does not start to develop until 4 mo adjusted age, at the earliest?

I'm all in favor of CIO, but only when it's developmentally appropriate.

 

It really makes me sad all the talk about sttn at such young ages on this website. Its such a big deal to people when it shouldn't be. These so called 'experts' have a lot to answer for.

 

QUOTE(miss_bossy18 @ Oct 14 2008, 10:44 PM) [snapback]1026652[/snapback]
well, we're not going to be getting them to STTN yet - they are too young for that, they still need to eat at night. but when they are old enough to STTN, then we will guide them to do that. i disagree that babies will STTN when they're ready. or, they will eventually, but as i understand it most experts agree that it's between 3 - 4 months old that babies become physically capable of STTN and i feel that it's important to teach my babies to sleep well as soon as possible and to stop getting up at night to eat out of habit & not need.


Well, at 4.5 months my pediatrician told me to keep feeding them if they wake up at night... Just because they're supposedly capable of STTN at 3-4 months doesn't mean that they are ready for it. I'm all for CIO when babies wake up out of habit, heck I've just started doing it with mine, but until 7 months when they woke up at night, they were hungry. It's just once they stopped eating at the next feeding that we started CIO... until then, they needed the extra bottle.

QUOTE
regarding the CIO, that'll be something we'll have to agree to disagree on. for me, it's more of a priority to teach them to sleep & to sleep well, than to keep them from crying.


And that's what I don't get it. Babies can't self soothe until 4 months, so why do it earlier? I know lots of people say that CIO before 6 months is not good. Well, I did it at 4 months because I knew they could self soothe by then (they discovered their fingers). Before that, we relied on pacis...

 

QUOTE(AndiG @ Oct 15 2008, 06:35 AM) [snapback]1026930[/snapback]
It really makes me sad all the talk about sttn at such young ages on this website. Its such a big deal to people when it shouldn't be. These so called 'experts' have a lot to answer for.



I agree with you. I believe there is a reason young babies wake up throughout the night (besides hunger). I understand the exhaustion that all of us moms go through - after months of interrupted sleep - and there is a point when it is appropriate to let them CIO or at least expect them to basically STTN. But I think we need to be careful when dealing with young infants and long stretches of sleep.

To the OP, I'm glad that it seems to be working well for you and your babies. I wouldn't even know where to find a sleep training expert around here!

 

QUOTE(miss_bossy18 @ Oct 14 2008, 09:50 PM) [snapback]1026666[/snapback]
it does seem to be working - although, we aren't aiming to get the girls to STTN yet as they still need those night time feeds to get all the calories they need. but for implementing a schedule & getting them to sleep well in their cribs it is working. tonight both girls fussed for less than 5 minutes. we've heard a couple of peeps out of them since then, but nothing major.

when we get to the point where they're ready to STTN, i'll update then as well so maybe i can have some more info for you.

the thing is, we're working off of a personalized sleep plan that our sleep consultant put together for us, so i wouldn't want to say that you should do things exactly the same as us as your situation might be different. if you'd like, you can check out her website at www.cheekychops.ca.


Rachel, I am so impressed! :good: What the sleep consultant did for you sounds similar to the help my mom gave me when my girls were born. My girls didn't STTN until they were good and ready (I think they started to consistently STTN around 6 months old) but even waking once a night is better than ten times a night.

You were really struggling with your babies being all over the place with no schedule whatsoever and you took the initiative to call and get yourself some help. :good: And it sounds like you are getting some very positive results. Some moms (and babies) do better with a predictable but flexible routine - me and my girls are that way too. There is nothing wrong with that!

You sound like you are feeling a lot better, so do you have any more sessions with the sleep consultant or if something new comes up you can contact her?

 

Rachel, I think it's great how much information you've gathered on sleeping. I also see that you are not interested in CIO at this point or STTN, but getting adequate rest for the babies. Sounds like you're doing great!

 

I think if it is working for your then great! All babies are different, so some I think are ready for some sleep training earlier then others, so I think just because a theory says 4 months, that doesn't mean every baby is ready at exactly 4 months, some might be ready earlier, some later. I think you have a plan and are keeping an eye on how things are going and that is great! You are doing the best you can to keep you and your children happy and well rested. Good Luck!
At around 3months old I had to let my dd cio out a bit before falling asleep, I would try and shush and rock her but it just didnt work for her, if I held her she thought it was time to be awake. So I had to lay her down and listen to her cry, it took her a few nights and she cried for about 15minutes each time, but she did learn to fall asleep. It was honestly the best thing I ever did, prior to doing that I or my mom were up with her for hours trying to get her to sleep! You know your babies best, so keep doing what you are doing!

 

QUOTE(isis @ Oct 15 2008, 07:23 AM) [snapback]1026981[/snapback]
I think if it is working for your then great! All babies are different, so some I think are ready for some sleep training earlier then others, so I think just because a theory says 4 months, that doesn't mean every baby is ready at exactly 4 months, some might be ready earlier, some later. I think you have a plan and are keeping an eye on how things are going and that is great! You are doing the best you can to keep you and your children happy and well rested. Good Luck!
At around 3months old I had to let my dd cio out a bit before falling asleep, I would try and shush and rock her but it just didnt work for her, if I held her she thought it was time to be awake. So I had to lay her down and listen to her cry, it took her a few nights and she cried for about 15minutes each time, but she did learn to fall asleep. It was honestly the best thing I ever did, prior to doing that I or my mom were up with her for hours trying to get her to sleep! You know your babies best, so keep doing what you are doing!


You are so right - all babies are different and we, as their moms, know them best! So, we definitely have to do what works for our babies and what works for us! I hope my earlier post didn't imply that I thought you (original poster) was letting your babies CIO - I could easily see in your post that you weren't looking for them to STTN, just sleep better. I was just agreeing with a PP about young babies and STTN.

I am glad for you and your babies that you have found a method that is working well - and as I said before, I would not even know where to find a Sleep Training Expert around here - rural Midwest! I think it is great that you were able to find one to consult with.

 

QUOTE(fuchsiagroan @ Oct 15 2008, 05:29 AM) [snapback]1026923[/snapback]
Did you know that the ability to self-soothe does not start to develop until 4 mo adjusted age, at the earliest?

I'm all in favor of CIO, but only when it's developmentally appropriate.


actually, this is not accurate. most babies aren't ready to STTN until 3 - 4 months of age, but they are able to learn to soothe themselves to sleep before that. case in point, my girls are learning to soothe themselves to sleep just fine & they are only 3 months old.


QUOTE(AndiG @ Oct 15 2008, 05:35 AM) [snapback]1026930[/snapback]
It really makes me sad all the talk about sttn at such young ages on this website. Its such a big deal to people when it shouldn't be. These so called 'experts' have a lot to answer for.


could you elaborate on this? i'm curious what you feel they need to answer for.


QUOTE(Fran27 @ Oct 15 2008, 05:47 AM) [snapback]1026942[/snapback]
Well, at 4.5 months my pediatrician told me to keep feeding them if they wake up at night... Just because they're supposedly capable of STTN at 3-4 months doesn't mean that they are ready for it. I'm all for CIO when babies wake up out of habit, heck I've just started doing it with mine, but until 7 months when they woke up at night, they were hungry. It's just once they stopped eating at the next feeding that we started CIO... until then, they needed the extra bottle.


and definitely if your pedi has recommended to keep feeding them than that's very important! your pedi will know your own situation best & you should always follow their advice. my doctor also told me that my girls aren't ready to STTN yet, they are too small & need to feed at night to get those extra calories to keep growing - he's aware of our work with our sleep consultant and is fuly supportive of it. to clarify, i AM still feeding my girls at night. between 7:00pm & 7:00am they nurse 4 times.


QUOTE(aimeethomp @ Oct 15 2008, 05:50 AM) [snapback]1026948[/snapback]
Rachel, I am so impressed! :good: What the sleep consultant did for you sounds similar to the help my mom gave me when my girls were born. My girls didn't STTN until they were good and ready (I think they started to consistently STTN around 6 months old) but even waking once a night is better than ten times a night.

You were really struggling with your babies being all over the place with no schedule whatsoever and you took the initiative to call and get yourself some help. :good: And it sounds like you are getting some very positive results. Some moms (and babies) do better with a predictable but flexible routine - me and my girls are that way too. There is nothing wrong with that!

You sound like you are feeling a lot better, so do you have any more sessions with the sleep consultant or if something new comes up you can contact her?


thanks Aimee! i'm definitely feeling better now that the girls are more predictable - they seem happier too. as for our sleep consultant, as part of the package, i send her daily reports of how things went the night before & then she touches base with me about any adjustments we need to make or to answer any questions i have. we'll do this for 3 weeks. after that, i'm still free to contact her with questions or concerns but will not be doing the daily reports. so basically, for $200 we now have access to a knowledgable sleep expert indefinitely! i love knowing that i will be able to pick her brain, so to speak, when i need to.

QUOTE(mama23boys @ Oct 15 2008, 06:33 AM) [snapback]1026997[/snapback]
I am glad for you and your babies that you have found a method that is working well - and as I said before, I would not even know where to find a Sleep Training Expert around here - rural Midwest! I think it is great that you were able to find one to consult with.


thank you! Dawnn lives in a different province from us - we were referred to her by a friend who hired her to help with her daughter. we've been doing all of our work via phone & email. you can check out her website at www.cheekychops.ca.

thanks ladies for all your posts & input! i knew that when i posted this topic there would be some strong feelings on both sides of the fence and am open to discussing them. i hope no one has been offended by my responses or feels disrespected in any way - i think it's important to keep a dialogue going about these issues, even if we know we won't change each other's minds. i think it's a good thing to have lots of ideas & thoughts to sift through & choose how you want to approach an issue as a parent for your own family.

 

What do you all consider STTN? I thought it was just 5+ hours uninterrupted sleep. I consider mine STTN b/c they usually go 5-6 hours...my ped said that's totally fine for this age (3 mo) as long as their weight is good. I didn't do any sleep training yet (personally I'm not a fan of CIO at any age - not trying to be argumentative, just stating), we just got lucky I guess - until they hit a regression or start teething, but I've got a copy of the No Cry Sleep Solution for when that happens . The strong reactions on this thread made me curiuos...I wondered if we have different definitions of STTN or if it was more in reaction to the idea of CIO? Do you think 5 hours is too long a stretch at 3 mo?

GL, Rachel! I hope it keeps working for you. You're right to do what you think is best for your family :good:

 

QUOTE(mamabee718 @ Oct 15 2008, 05:58 PM) [snapback]1027577[/snapback]
What do you all consider STTN? I thought it was just 5+ hours uninterrupted sleep. I consider mine STTN b/c they usually go 5-6 hours...my ped said that's totally fine for this age (3 mo) as long as their weight is good. I didn't do any sleep training yet (personally I'm not a fan of CIO at any age - not trying to be argumentative, just stating), we just got lucky I guess - until they hit a regression or start teething, but I've got a copy of the No Cry Sleep Solution for when that happens . The strong reactions on this thread made me curiuos...I wondered if we have different definitions of STTN or if it was more in reaction to the idea of CIO? Do you think 5 hours is too long a stretch at 3 mo?

GL, Rachel! I hope it keeps working for you. You're right to do what you think is best for your family :good:


No, I don't think 5 hours is too long if that's what they are doing on their own. I wouldn't let my 3 month olds cry for 5 hours - but if they are going 5 hours at night without waking up hungry then I say that's awesome!

 

Way to go Original Poster!!!

Sleep is incredibly important for children and it is great that you are focusing on it for your kids. I spoke with a sleep specialist just last night about this topic. (I am a drug rep and sell an insomnia drug- not for children; this Doctor was doing a educational program for Nurse Practitioners) Here is what I learned:

- One of the best ways to get your kids a good nights sleep is to expose them to bright SUNlight first thing in the morning. This is important to flush the chemical out of the brain that make you sleepy.
- You MUST have a consistent waking time. Your natural circadian rhythm (your daily clock) is actually set at 24:15-25 hours. If you do not have a consistent wake time, it is very difficult to regulate your clock to 24 hours
- Babies sleep cycle is approximately 60 minutes (unlike adults which is apx 90 minutes)
- Babies sleep is approximately 50% (infants) to 30% (small children) REM sleep. REM sleep is at the end of their (60 minute) sleep cycle and is very important because it is when memory is stored (gotta remember how they crawled yesterday to do it again today!)
- And here is the kicker: Babies get more REM sleep the longer they sleep! (in other words, REM may last 10 minutes in their first cycle, but 30 mintues per cycle after 6 hours of continuous sleep)

So, actually it is VERY important to get your children to sleep well and through the night as soon as they are physically able to do so. Most sleep specialist consider this around 14 lbs. You may have to train you children to do this, and CIO is certainly not the only option, but STTN is a very big deal for proven reasons.

My personal opinion is that you are doing a great job at teaching your children how to sleep well, so that they can be happy babies!

 

'Experts have a lot to answer for"

In reply to wanting to know what I mean I thought I would try and explain myself. First, I do think, like you, that a bedtime routine and schedule is great - it works well for me too. It is important for babies to put themselves to sleep and learn to self soothe - I just don't agree with the crying bit at such a young age. I personally couldn't do it. There are definitely times when crying can be used - but it has to be age appropriate for me. Let's not fool ourselves. When we let babies cry in order to put themselves to sleep we are not 'teaching' them to self' soothe. We are forcing them. What are they actually doing? They are crying for their mum. When mum doesn't come they eventually fall asleep and what they actually learn is that crying wont bring mum anymore. Now if you think that what they learn is how to fall to sleep by themselves - fine. It is the nicer way of looking at it!


The problem with 'expert' advice and all the books on sleep, etc, is that no-one really agrees. The only thing anyone agrees on is that all children are different. So how can most experts agree that most children can sttn at 3-4 months? You will find that most experts contradict themselves on the same page. They will say that a child of 14lbs can sleep through the night - then you will read that it is perfectly normal for a 5/6 month old who weighs more to need a night feed!

I do understsand you are still feeding your girls and are not looking to sttn yet but I just read between the lines (maybe wrongly) that when your girls weigh enough you are going to work on it because an 'expert' says they are capable.

This is when I get sad (not necessarily that it applies to you). But mums pay so much attention to what 'experts' say and read all these sleep books that they loose their own ability and confidence in their parenting. They feel pressured into making their children sttn because that's what the book says and that's what my friends kids do. It makes mums question themselves - am I doing something wrong? Is my baby normal? Why isn't she sttn?? Evidence of this is all over this website. Many posts question they child's normality because they are not sttn. One post recently said she was going to drop a night feed (at 6 weeks old) and then work towards sttn!!!! Why???? The fact that she's even discussing sttn and thinking about it at that age is worrying.

I know a lot of these books have helped a lot of people and they give some good advice. But they interfere with the natural progression of a lot of babies who imo are too young to be sttn or cio.

I just dislike the way many books and experts make many mums feel - that they are doing something wrong - they are inadequate - there is something wrong with their baby. The fact that there is so much discussion about sttn and cio is just evidence to me that all these experts and books are having an effect - and imo - not a positive one in regards to parenting.

All just my opinion of course - I have more of a natural/let it flow/laid back/they'll get there in the end kind of parenting style.

 

QUOTE(AndiG @ Oct 16 2008, 06:02 AM) [snapback]1028141[/snapback]
'Experts have a lot to answer for"

In reply to wanting to know what I mean I thought I would try and explain myself. First, I do think, like you, that a bedtime routine and schedule is great - it works well for me too. It is important for babies to put themselves to sleep and learn to self soothe - I just don't agree with the crying bit at such a young age. I personally couldn't do it. There are definitely times when crying can be used - but it has to be age appropriate for me. Let's not fool ourselves. When we let babies cry in order to put themselves to sleep we are not 'teaching' them to self' soothe. We are forcing them. What are they actually doing? They are crying for their mum. When mum doesn't come they eventually fall asleep and what they actually learn is that crying wont bring mum anymore. Now if you think that what they learn is how to fall to sleep by themselves - fine. It is the nicer way of looking at it!
The problem with 'expert' advice and all the books on sleep, etc, is that no-one really agrees. The only thing anyone agrees on is that all children are different. So how can most experts agree that most children can sttn at 3-4 months? You will find that most experts contradict themselves on the same page. They will say that a child of 14lbs can sleep through the night - then you will read that it is perfectly normal for a 5/6 month old who weighs more to need a night feed!

I do understsand you are still feeding your girls and are not looking to sttn yet but I just read between the lines (maybe wrongly) that when your girls weigh enough you are going to work on it because an 'expert' says they are capable.

This is when I get sad (not necessarily that it applies to you). But mums pay so much attention to what 'experts' say and read all these sleep books that they loose their own ability and confidence in their parenting. They feel pressured into making their children sttn because that's what the book says and that's what my friends kids do. It makes mums question themselves - am I doing something wrong? Is my baby normal? Why isn't she sttn?? Evidence of this is all over this website. Many posts question they child's normality because they are not sttn. One post recently said she was going to drop a night feed (at 6 weeks old) and then work towards sttn!!!! Why???? The fact that she's even discussing sttn and thinking about it at that age is worrying.

I know a lot of these books have helped a lot of people and they give some good advice. But they interfere with the natural progression of a lot of babies who imo are too young to be sttn or cio.

I just dislike the way many books and experts make many mums feel - that they are doing something wrong - they are inadequate - there is something wrong with their baby. The fact that there is so much discussion about sttn and cio is just evidence to me that all these experts and books are having an effect - and imo - not a positive one in regards to parenting.

All just my opinion of course - I have more of a natural/let it flow/laid back/they'll get there in the end kind of parenting style.


ITA with this. I find the more *expert* books I read the more I doubt myself and stop listening to my babies. Even Ferber, doesn't recommend CIO until 6 mos, no?

Personally, I don't find gettting up once a night with my 3 mo olds, or shushing them to sleep for 10 minutes a huge deal. It's just what most babies do. *shrugs*. I actually relish the time with them. I know it will soon be gone

 

QUOTE(AndiG @ Oct 16 2008, 06:02 AM) [snapback]1028141[/snapback]
This is when I get sad (not necessarily that it applies to you). But mums pay so much attention to what 'experts' say and read all these sleep books that they loose their own ability and confidence in their parenting. They feel pressured into making their children sttn because that's what the book says and that's what my friends kids do. It makes mums question themselves - am I doing something wrong? Is my baby normal? Why isn't she sttn?? Evidence of this is all over this website. Many posts question they child's normality because they are not sttn. One post recently said she was going to drop a night feed (at 6 weeks old) and then work towards sttn!!!! Why???? The fact that she's even discussing sttn and thinking about it at that age is worrying.


That's what makes me sad, too, about some "expert" CIO advice (again, not necessarily applying this to the original poster). I really feel that we were giving our instincts for a reason, and suppressing them can be hurtful, to you and to your relationship with your child. YOU are the expert on your child, it might not feel like it during the newness of parenting, and yes, it's good to take advice that's helpful. But you know your child best. I'm not saying that babies should never cry, that's silliness. I'm just saying, trust your instinct, and if an expert or someone on this board or whoever should tell you to do something going against that instinct, think long and hard about it.

 

CIO doesn't bother me... It does when it's to teach babies to sleep when they're obviously not ready for it yet. Like, doing CIO when they wake up at night at 4 months... when they are probably hungry... that's when it bothers me. The irony is that it's often the people who advocate gentle ways of putting the babies to sleep that end up coming back when the babies are 9 months and cry because they won't fall asleep on their own...

I've been lucky so far that the only times my babies really cry is when they're exhausted, and then there's nothing we can do anyway but let them CIO as nothing calms them down (and our intervention makes things worse). But at least they only cry when they're exhausted (and hungry, but that's easier to fix).

 

I think you are doing a great job finding the best solution for your babies! I would totally hire a sleep expert if I could not only for my twins but for my 2yo as well. Great work Momma

 

Rachel, it sounds like you are doing a great job! I hope you're not hurt by any of these comments; it doesn't seem like you are.

To everyone who is worried or saddened by parents who do CIO seemingly too early, please consider that there are not always other options. When my first daughter was only two months old, I had no choice but to put her in her crib and let her cry herself to sleep. Believe me, I did not enjoy this. She would not take a pacifier, she could not be rocked to sleep in my arms on our glider, she would nurse and fall asleep, but no matter how long I held her after, she would wake up and start screaming as soon as I put her in her crib. I could only calm her down by bouncing on an exercise ball, but after several weeks of this, my back was killing me and I had to find another way. I still nursed her during the night, going to her as soon as she cried, until she was nine months old. At that point, my milk supply plumetted and I had to stop nursing b/c she refused to drink formula and her weight dropped from 10% to the -5%. Only then did we even attempt to have her sttn and she did so immediately once on formula. (I'm just sharing this part so you don't think I let her cry constantly, and I guess to show that I am a concerned parent.)

I don't think that most people listen to the "experts" simply because they are experts, but because they are struggling, or exhausted, or needing to go back to work, etc. etc. I read On Becoming Babywise and 12 Hours Sleep by 12 Weeks Old, neither of which I ended up following b/c they were simply too regimented for me and I'd rather deal with not getting much sleep for a while than have to follow SUCH strict schedules, but these ideas work for many parents. My twins are 10 months now and sometimes sttn and sometimes not, which is fine, but I do have to say that I am a happier mommy when I get more sleep.

I just wanted to respond b/c I thought some of the comments made were a little too harsh.