Nothing personal ladies but I hear SOO many mommas give the advice of CIO and I cant for the life of me do that. It just KILLS me to hear a baby cry. Im curious for those of you that have done CIO are you breastfeeding or bottle feeding? I almost feel that for me, personally, maybe I cant do CIO because I do breastfeed and I feel such a stong bond/connection with my kids its hard for me. I mean they have no other means of communication but crying for anything they might need. If I just ingnore their cries I feel like Im saying no I wont feed you, I wont change you, I wont hold you, help you, burp you, console you, be there for you if you need me. Does anyone else feel this way or is it just me??? Even if I know Ive done EVERYTHING above and they need nothing I cant do it!
CIO is not for everyone and you certainly shouldn't do it if it makes you feel that way. It also is not for every baby. There is no one right answer. With the twins, they were bottle-fed with 1/2 formula and 1/2 bm. I did do CIO after 6 mon old to establish a bedtime and then I weaned them from the night feedings using a no-cry method. Knowing my babies, this gradual change is what they needed to establish a healthy sleep routine. My singleton was exclusively bf but I did use CIO with him in the middle of the night. I'm not exactly sure of the age but I think he was about 9 months old. Knowing his personality, I knew that gradual weaning would not work for him and that he wasn't going to wean himself. He needed help to STTN and I knew CIO was the best idea for him. It only took him a couple of days and then he was fine and happy as pie in the morning.
I did use CIO once (that's all it took) and I used formula. CIO is not for everyone, but I do not think it's a reflection on a mother's connection or bond with her child(ren). Neither is FF or BF. For me CIO worked great. I used it at almost 7mths when I knew they were waking out of habit rather than hunger. DD was already sleeping through, but DS wasn't. He cried for less than 30 minutes one night. I'm glad that I did it.
oh I should mention when I talked with our ped about this at our 9 month well baby check she too said after 6 months of age waking at night to be fed is not necessary...HOW do they REALLY know? before I was lucky enough to reduce my hours to pt I worked ft during which my babies did reverse cycling. We did MOST nursing at night. I agree its not a reflection of BF or FF but I guess if I bottle fed I would feel MORE confident that yes their bellies really truly are full whereas with the breast, besides wet & dirty diapers I dont know if they are really full for the night. I mean, I wake up and get a drink during the night :drinks: I can say not a day goes by where I dont think about CIO obviously or wouldnt have this poll LOL - we are however trying to figure out HOW do we establish a "bed time" because right now it kind of just depends on them not the clock and thats becoming tiresome after almost 10 months. Thanks for the comments ladies! I need this discussion and the different view points! :friends:
QUOTE(E&Msmom @ Dec 11 2008, 12:24 AM) [snapback]1106583[/snapback] I almost feel that for me, personally, maybe I cant do CIO because I do breastfeed and I feel such a stong bond/connection with my kids its hard for me. the implication being that those who FF don't have a strong bond/connection with their kids? this is the kind of BF elitism that drives me completely crazy. BFing doesn't work for everyone and the subtle (and not so subtle) ways in which people show how they pass judgment is just sad.
QUOTE(piccologirl @ Dec 11 2008, 03:09 AM) [snapback]1106654[/snapback] the implication being that those who FF don't have a strong bond/connection with their kids? this is the kind of BF elitism that drives me completely crazy. BFing doesn't work for everyone and the subtle (and not so subtle) ways in which people show how they pass judgment is just sad. I don't think this is what she meant. I can't compare because I only BF, but I'm sure you are every bit as bonded with your babies as I am with mine. What I do think may be different when you nurse on demand is that in order to keep your supply up so you don't have to supplement, you really have to nurse them whenever they are hungry, especially in the beginning. I think you get so used to listening for those hunger cues that to me CIO would be counterintuitive, even if I could somehow measure how much they had gotten during the day. I'm not sure if many people FF completely on demand, at least judging from what I read here. Usually when I start to feel bad that mine aren't on a perfect by the clock napping schedule yet, I realize that most of the posts about that are from FFing moms who can in some ways control or at least monitor the ounces their babies are getting each feed. I know some BFing moms CIO and do have that perfect by the clock schedule happening, too, but I think a lot who EBF on demand allow more flexibility and therefore couldn't CIO. Mine STTN 95% of the time, but if one wakes (right now for example), I BF them. We had a rough day staying at MILs so this could be for food or for comfort...I'm ok with either so I wouldn't dream of letting him CIO. Maybe when they are eating solids, too, I'll feel differently. Sorry for the long, sleepy answer...I just hate to see so many people here on TS looking to argue lately. I think OP was just trying to see what people do b/c she may be considering sleep training and after waking or responding to every possible hunger cue for the sake of EBFing, it must be a difficult choice. JMO. Sorry that you feel like you are judged for FFing. I think formula has come a long way, and a friend who is a pediatric nurse at John Hopkins told me about the research showing how some are so close to BM (she told me this in the beginning to relieve my fears when my LC told me my fertility issues might prevent BFing) that really there is no reason to feel like what you are giving your babies is any less than what BFing moms are giving. I personally like the bond that comes from nursing for comfort as well as food, but I know some BFing moms who would never let themselves be the human pacifier. I'm also proud of myself for overcoming the many challenges of BFing twins and sometimes that might come out sounding like ellitism, but in my case it's just knowing that it was hard as heck to do it in the beginning and it felt like such an achievement to me once I got the hang of it. It's all just doing what works for you, and I'm sure we're all doing a great job feeding, cuddling, bonding with our babies regardless of our feeding choices.
Nice reply mamabee. I bfed and managed to get them onto a routine - always in bed 6.30/7pm since 12 weeks. Have done and always will go to them in the night. They are sttn since 5 half and 7 half months. Elliot had a feed until around 7 half months. I would have continued this feed for longer if he wanted it, habit or not. Just because a ped says a baby doesn't need a feed after 6 months it really doesn't mean that your baby doesn't need it - I agree with op that they do not always know for sure and so when I read posts about using cio because their baby is still having a feed in the night at 7 months that upsets me. I do not agree with cio before 1 year but that is just me. But then again I have read a couple of very difficult situations with younger babies in which the only option is cio and it has worked. But for me I wouldn't do it until 1 year old. I still soothe mine to sleep and even though it doesn't take long I have decided in the new year that is it - into the crib awake you go! And this will defnitely involve crying - but I am ok with it at this age now - they understand it is sleep time and know what to do.
QUOTE(mamabee718 @ Dec 11 2008, 10:21 AM) [snapback]1106673[/snapback] What I do think may be different when you nurse on demand is that in order to keep your supply up so you don't have to supplement, you really have to nurse them whenever they are hungry, especially in the beginning. I think you get so used to listening for those hunger cues that to me CIO would be counterintuitive, even if I could somehow measure how much they had gotten during the day. I'm not sure if many people FF completely on demand, at least judging from what I read here. I formula fed on demand ETA: I voted, FF and No to CIO.
I ff and voted no. Tried it once or twice...the crying sucked and it didn't work. And yes I have a very strong bond with my babies, despite the fact that they are bottle feed. Dianna
My friend BF her daughter and son to the one year point. Both slept through the night by 6 months old. And with her son, she did feed him on a routine--not just when he cried. She found by feeding him on a routine, he napped and slept better at night. So, just because they are BF, does not mean they need to be fed totally on demand.
QUOTE(sharongl @ Dec 11 2008, 08:24 AM) [snapback]1106706[/snapback] My friend BF her daughter and son to the one year point. Both slept through the night by 6 months old. And with her son, she did feed him on a routine--not just when he cried. She found by feeding him on a routine, he napped and slept better at night. So, just because they are BF, does not mean they need to be fed totally on demand. Likewise - I bf to a routine - not to demand.
I formula feed but did not use CIO. However, I was fortunate enough that we could get to a sleeping schedule without it. Believe me if we had to, I definitely would have tried it. I don't think that there is one right way to feed your child/ren or sleep train them. You gotta go with what works best for everyone! If you are not comfortable with CIO then definitely don't do it, you may not even need to
I voted Yes and FF, but that was because there was no alternative option. We did CIO with my son's separation anxiety. It had nothing to do with wanting a bottle. He slept through the night fine for months on his own before this. It wasn't until recently he was sick and learned that we would come to him for every little peep. Once he was better, he wondered where we were when he wanted to wake up at night - which is what he was used to doing after being sick. So we did CIO after speaking with the pediatrician about it. She agreed it was a behavior that needed to be changed, and CIO would be effective. The only other option we had would be to sleep with him (my husband had to sleep on the floor next to his crib one night), but I have never felt comfortable doing that. So for me, this was the only alternative, and luckily for us it worked and fast.
I'm a bit offended by the statement that because we formula feed we have no bond with our kids. Ugh. I've heard every argument for bf and I agree it's best, but that one is new. Sheesssh. I totally agree with Piccolo girl there. And please keep in mind that there are people who formula feed and hold their babies, and people who formula feed and just hold the bottle, too. I've only used CIO when they were overtired and nothing would calm them down. My babies only sleep in their crib, and when they cry every time you put them down, there isn't much you can do about it. Honestly it has happened only a few times that they really cried... mostly it's been fussing.
QUOTE(piccologirl @ Dec 11 2008, 03:09 AM) [snapback]1106654[/snapback] the implication being that those who FF don't have a strong bond/connection with their kids? this is the kind of BF elitism that drives me completely crazy. BFing doesn't work for everyone and the subtle (and not so subtle) ways in which people show how they pass judgment is just sad. Yeah, I totally read this the same way you did. My connection can't possibly be as strong as the OPs since I only FF ... I FF and did CIO ... it had nothing to do with my connection to my children ... do you think I like to listen to them cry because I FF? Really, your comments are kinda rude. If you don't want to CIO, don't. Do what works for you. It works for a lot of people, and it doesn't mean we arent' as connected to our children. That's just silly. My kids have slept from 7pm-7am since 4.5 months. I did CIO for a total of 5 days when they were 6 months. I did it only so that I wouldn't have to soothe them to sleep at bedtime. I didn't let them cry when they woke up in the middle of the night, becuase they never did. I used it solely to get them to fall asleep on their own.
I didn't vote yet because I'm in the middle. I would never CIO until after about 5-6 months. I have done a little bit of CIO, but I will not let them stay in there screaming for that long. Sometimes I do let mine cry a bit when going down for a nap, because I know they are crying b/c they just want to see me. In that case, they only cry for 5 min max. If they go on longer, I go in. I cannot let them CIO for very long. I just can't. I think you need to do what works for you. If you don't want to CIO at all, don't! There are lots of moms I know who don't do CIO. Oh, and I FF. Not by choice, but I do FF. I FF on demand and a schedule. I let them fix their schedule and they pretty much stick to it. If they are hungry before feeding time, I feed them.
QUOTE(E&Msmom @ Dec 11 2008, 12:24 AM) [snapback]1106583[/snapback] Nothing personal ladies but I hear SOO many mommas give the advice of CIO and I cant for the life of me do that. It just KILLS me to hear a baby cry. Im curious for those of you that have done CIO are you breastfeeding or bottle feeding? I almost feel that for me, personally, maybe I cant do CIO because I do breastfeed and I feel such a stong bond/connection with my kids its hard for me. I mean they have no other means of communication but crying for anything they might need. If I just ingnore their cries I feel like Im saying no I wont feed you, I wont change you, I wont hold you, help you, burp you, console you, be there for you if you need me. Does anyone else feel this way or is it just me??? Even if I know Ive done EVERYTHING above and they need nothing I cant do it! Just wanted to add that formula feeding parents can feel just as strong of a bond/connection.
QUOTE(caba @ Dec 11 2008, 09:25 AM) [snapback]1106761[/snapback] Yeah, I totally read this the same way you did. My connection can't possibly be as strong as the OPs since I only FF ... I also read it the same way. It was very rude. Especially considering some of us may have really wanted to BF and it did not work out. I BF both of my older children. We had a very strong bond. I pumped for these guys and although I really wanted to BF, we never were successfull in latching on. I ended up pumping for 4 months and switching to formula. So the babies are formula fed and the bond is just as strong as with my girls that BF. I'm hoping she did not intend it the way we read it. So I voted that I FF and No CIO. Sometimes one of my twins will wake in the middle of the night and fuss a little. I give him time to go back to sleep on his own. If he cried hard or for very long I would go get him. I can't stand to hear them cry and they need to know I am always here for them.
I formula feed and breast feed. And for the first time in 11 months I had it. When baby B woke up at 3 am (as she always does) I went in her room to get her. Baby H (who has been sleeping through the night since 6 months old) started stirring, saw me and wanted to get up also. If I ever get baby H up at night she refuses to go back down to bed, I end up laying with her all night on the couch. I figured there was no way I could deal with both of them, so I laid them both down in their cribs and told them to go to sleep and I went back to my bedroom. They both cried for probably 15 minutes, and finally went back to sleep. I was never comfortable letting them cry it out until last night. They are 11 months old today. I have a different theory on CIO/not CIO, I'm going to start another poll.
Yikes I think this is getting a little off topic so I'll try to bring it back. I have BF all 3 of my kiddos and done CIO with all 3 as well. We actually just did it with the twins 2wks ago, they had just turned 7mths. They only reason I even considered it to begin with is b/c my pedi suggested it with my DS when I was having problems with him waking at 4am and wanting to play. She asked that I try it for just 3 nights and see what happened. I knew that him waking at 4am was not good for him or me so I tried it. Well it was heartbreaking to listen to him cry the first night but he woke up the next morning just fine and was happy as a clam, obviously he wasn't holding any grudges. The 2nd night was much shorter and the third night was like 5mins of fussing, then we had STTN and have not had any problems since then (he is 2yo now). I nursed him for 13mths, which I don't think has anything to do with CIO. With the girls it seemed like they slept good from about 7pm until 1-2am when they would wake for a feeding, then after that it was not a good solid sleep for the rest of the night. I was the only one getting up with them and I was getting so tired so I figured I'd give it a shot with them. Since I knew what to expect I think it was easier the 2nd time around, I just turned off the monitors and didn't turn them back on until 4:30am. It took 2 nights and I haven't heard a peep from them at night since then. They are now sleeping from 7pm to 7-8am with no problem and I think it is also helping with their daytime routines as well, it seems like their awake time is now longer and their naps are now better as well. I think it is important to help to teach your children good sleeping habits and for me personally I would rather do it earlier when there is less protesting than later when they can scream my name and stand up in the crib. I know many moms that have tried other methods and have ultimately have had to do CIO at a later age. I am not saying that CIO is for everyone and believe me I wish my kids would have done it on their own but in the long run I am a huge advocate of it. We have never had any sleep problems with our DS, he knows when it's bedtime and never protests, wakes up happy and well rested. I also think it has absolutely nothing to do with FF or BF, just teaching a child how to sleep. Ahhh my fingers are now sore from typing
I FF fed and did CIO with them around 9 months. We only used CIO when getting them to bed, not during the middle of the night since they were pretty well STTN anyway. We stopped feeding them during the night around 6 months and gradually weaned them from that. First cutting down the amount they were getting, then switching to a little water, then just cuddling them or rubbing their backs until they calmed back down. At 9 months when I did CIO, my DH was out of town for 3-4 days and it was pretty much my last resort. Usually the 2 of us would put them into bed and rub their backs, sing to them until they settled down or fell asleep. While we weren't rocking them, it was pretty much the same thing, they needed us to help settle down for bedtime. When DH wasn't there, I was running back and forth between cribs and whoever I wasn't touching would be crying. I'm very glad that I did it though, becasuse it helped them to go down by themselves at bedtime and they are still great sleepers now. It definitely wasn't easy though and its probably a good thing DH wasn't there because he probably couldn't have done it. The first night Alina cried for about 20 min. and Madison cried for about 55 min. stopped for 5-10 minutes, then cried for another 10 min. or so. The 2nd night, Alina cried for maybe 10 min. and Madison cried for 25-30 min. The 3rd night was even shorter. The first night, I pretty much cried with them the whole time, it was not easy. They were pacifier babies, so if they did cry during the night, they had usually just lost their binky and giving it back would do the trick. If not, we'd rub, pat, soothe till they settled back down. I truely feel though that good sleep patterns/habits help them so much. After that we usually did a kind of a partial CIO. Put them down, give them 10 minutes, go into soothe, leave, give them 15 minutes to self comfort, go back to soothe them again and just keep increasing by 5 minutes each time. Like everyone else has said, CIO isn't for everyone, but it also doesn't mean you are a unfeeling mother who isn't tortured by your babies cries.
Um, I put CIO and BF. But that was with my singletons. I'm clueless about twins. I hated hearing them cry but they needed sleep, and they learned to sooth themselves in a few nights, and an occasional blip from a schedule mix-up, so it wasn't a long-term, every night thing thing. I also had to keep reminding myself that it was protest crying, not hunger or pain. And I knew they needed to learn this skill. Going through CIO really helped me as they grew into toddlers to deal with protest crying about not getting their way or having to do something they didn't want to. As far as the BF elitism deal, I'd like to chime in with MHO: I'm really sorry if FF mommies were offended, It probably wasn't meant to put u down. Maternal bonds DO NOT depend on feeding style. I have to say, though, that when I hear my babies cry, my breasts physically crave contact with my babies. I don't know how else to say it. It seperate from instinct, it feels like a compulsion. I think maybe that is the obstacle Jess is trying to deal with in deciding to CIO or not.
QUOTE(ginagwen @ Dec 11 2008, 07:45 AM) [snapback]1107003[/snapback] As far as the BF elitism deal, I'd like to chime in with MHO: I'm really sorry if FF mommies were offended, It probably wasn't meant to put u down. Maternal bonds DO NOT depend on feeding style. I have to say, though, that when I hear my babies cry, my breasts physically crave contact with my babies. I don't know how else to say it. It seperate from instinct, it feels like a compulsion. I think maybe that is the obstacle Jess is trying to deal with in deciding to CIO or not. this is exactly it! In the beginning anytime my baby cried my breast hurt trremendously, and anytime I had a let down I could feel it and ouch it was painful! While I dont experience these things anymore, I cant see how many ounces DS eats, (hes the only one EBF btw, DD is bottle fed with FF & EBM and I have no problem letting her CIO a little!) and so I feel obligated to get back up and respond to his cry.
I think every mother hurts when she hears her baby or babies cry. Also, I don't know from experience but I am assuming that you hurt every time your child cries or is in pain regardless of how old that child is or whether you BF or FF them as babies.
So I wrote that last night, half sleeping - however after reading all the comments this morning I see how I could have upset many of you! I wanted to apologize and explain a little. My DS is EBM while my DD is bottle fed ONLY. She does recieve both EBM and Formula. However, I remember in the beginning my breast would hurt when my baby would cry. I could feel every let down. I also cant see how many ounces DS drinks at the breast. Its easier for me to allow DD to cry because I know shes not hungry as opposed to DS. So when I said I feel a stong bond/connenction because of breastfeeding I was not implying that FF mothers dont have this, I feel connected with my daughter and shes not breastfed I was simply trying to say I feel OBLIGATED to the nurser to get up and go feed bcause even though I dont get the painful feeling in my breast anymore I dont know if he is/isnt hungry. I feel its my duty or obligation to go whatever time it is. so by bond I really meant I feel like hes got me on a ball & chain, he cries and it tugs at me to get up and go to him. Does that make better sense? Im so sorry if I offended everyone! I love TS and the wonderful advice and different view points I recieve here. But since I have twins 1 who nurses, and 1 who does not and I do feel differently about CIO with each of them based on the method they are fed I wondered if there were others that shared that with me. I am facing a hard decision trying to figure out what to do with my DS. Both for my supply, my sanity, and sleeping for our whole family. My ped said try CIO. Last night DH and I put them in bed and went in every 5 min to reassure, and after 15 minutes I couldnt do it! thats when I came and wrote my post. again so sorry everyone and thank you for your valuable input!
Jess, I totally and truly appreciate your explaination! Totally makes sense that you were saying you have a physical reaction to your son's crying. I don't think that fully came across in your first post, and that's why I was kind of offended. Anyway, thank you for explaining. And no hard feelings, I'm sure I've said my share of things that people take the wrong way!!!
I BF to 14 months and we did CIO. I totally understand not wanting to listen to the screaming and an upset child seeing Mommy and wanting to eat. For those reason, I made DH be the bad guy. It was much easier that way. If we had to go in, we made sure it was DH who did so. I usually had to go to another floor of the house or he had to physically restrain me! After the first couple times of DD clingy to her Daddy, but trying to peek around him, looking for me ( ) she finally got the hint. As for someone who tries it "once or twice" and it didn't work, that's probably why. They hadn't figured it out yet and were right when they thought "if I cry long enough, they'll come in here". So hard. Good luck whatever you decide.
thanks for explaining.. i understand now sometimes things can get misconstrued in writing, but i also appreciate your response. good luck deciding what to do!
I have on-demand breastfed each of my kids one year plus and I have employed CIO. I haven't had to use it with the twins so far. I will add that it isn't for everyone and it certainly isn't always necessary. But I am convinced that each child is unique and what works for one may not work for another. A parent has to be flexible. I find that those who are militant about certain methods are sometimes the ones who end up with less-settled children. Only by the grace of God are any of my kids normal and joyous.
I used it to get them to fall asleep - generally in the middle of the night if they wake up they stand up in the crib and need to be comforted due to a bad dream or feeling ill....if DD gets a fever she'll actually talk and sing to herself at night - thats generally my cue to get her more Tylenol!
