Thinking about crying it out....

I've created horrible sleep habits for my girls. They have no schedule, they both get really cranky at 5pm and I put them down for a nap. Maya wakes up about an hour later and stays up til 7:30 but Elise sleeps through the night then wakes up at 4:30 am, Maya follows about an hour later. They both go back to bed about an hour after they wake up from their night sleep. Then it is a nap free for all from there. There is no consistancy and I can't seem to nudge them towards a schedule because they are sooooo hard to get down. I am afraid I am hurting them by haveing no consistancy. Does anyone else have no schedule? I'm thinking that the only way I will ever get them on a schedule is to let them cry it out so they are easier to put down.

Right now they only sleep in their bouncers and now they are starting to look uncomfortable in them. They only go to sleep with rocking or nursing. And they almost always go to sleep with pacis which I end up replacing throughout the night. If I put them down awake they cry and they wake eachother. We live in this rediculously tiny house (thank god we will be moving in March, anyone from Nashville?)so it is almost impossible to seperate them. We could place one in our room while we sleep train the other, then trade places? Has anyone had any luck with two LOUD babies crying it out in the same room together? I just don't think it will work. I am also afraid of getting one used to her crib, then moving her to our room while I sleep train the other and undoing all our work.

Any advise? I would love to hear any stories, good or bad, about your experience with crying it out. I am trying to get them used to their cribs and am thinking of crying it out in about a month when they are six months.....

 

I would try to get a schedule in place (if you want one) before CIO. At that age I think they are ready to try a 2-3-4 nap schedule. So wake them when you would like to start your day and put them down for their nap 2 hours later, then the next nap is 3 hours after that wake time, and bedtime would be 4 hours after that. My twins couldn't make it all the hours in between sometimes so just flex it to fit your babies. And also mine needed a cat nap between the 4 hour stretch until they were much older as well
Once bedtime comes I would try to keep the night wakings to a limit of feed and put back down. I never changed my kids in the middle of the night unless there was poop or someone had a rash. Maybe get a "lovey" for them to take place of the paci (we're dealing with the constant re-inserting as well right now!).
If you were to CIO to help them go to sleep then be consistent with nap and bedtime and decide whether you want to for the night wakings as well. You could also try a modified version where you rub their backs, ect which might be better since they are still on the young side.
Good luck! Hope I helped a little!

 

I havent really let them cry it out but I just wanted you to know we are on no schedule either. My boys are 3 months. We have a small house too and are just waiting for them to finish building our new home, next year probably. babies dont sleep well during the day because they nap on the main floor with all the noise from my 2 other kids.. one sleeps in a crib in our room and one sleeps in a swing on the main floor!! i soooooo cant wait to move and everyone will have thier own rooms and then is when ill worry about getting them to sleep in cribs...

 

At 4 months I would recommend sticking with 3 naps...it worked well for us. Basically, you say they do the first nap well. About 1.5 to 2 hours after that nap, do a soothing routine...bottle/nurse, book/song, bouncy chair, whatever, then put them in their cribs. Not necessarily cry it out, but if they've burped and are just fussing a bit, leave them 6-10 minutes to see if they'll fall asleep. Now, you may want to just do one at a time...after a week or so, try the routine with the second twin. Other than feeling like a human pacifier, there's no reason not to nurse to sleep at this age.

Then a third nap late afternoon (your one twin is already doing it) will be needed.

We went to 2 naps and 2-3-4 at about 5 1/2 months...some kids do it even later.

 

I found that once we got a nap schedule established the night time sorted itself out. I would just come up with a naptime routine, let them be in their nap space for a good 1/2 hr at the times when you want them to nap and just keep at it for a few days until they get the hint.

 

CIO can be really hard on everyone but can a great way to get them organised. If you do it you need to make sure you and DH are on the same page or it won't work. We did not do it for our first because I found it too hard. But after that we went for it with the boys. To be honest it never took more than a week initially to get them into the routines they needed. And it only takes a day or two if they have gone out of schedule due to illness, etc. Our biggest 'crutch' at the beginning was a watch. We would both sit there staring at it for the ten minutes until we went in to them. The twins were in the same cot when we started CIO and it still worked. When they went into their own room in seperate cots it still worked! Good luck if you choose to do it. Be consistant or it won't work!!!

 

You are NOT hurting them with the inconsistency!! It's a tough time because most LOs at that age don't have a schedule yet. Ours had more of a routine - if you could even call it that. Naps were not consistent and they rarely napped at the same time. It made me crazy! Starting around 5 or 6 months they started to get into a little bit of a schedule and it got a lot better by 7 months! They are much too young for CIO in my opinion - they are still learning. It takes time. Hang in there.

 

When my girls were that age I was putting them down for a nap after 1.5 hours of awake time. This worked really well to help get them into a routine of 3 naps a day. They didn't have much of a routine before this time. I forget which book this technique was from (I've read so many!) but the thought was that at this age you should be putting them down early and often. They didn't go down to 2 naps a day until the were close to 8 months old.

 

I know a lot of people here are supporters of CIO, but I think there are so many other ways to handle sleeping problems. CIO is so often touted as the best or only way to get babies sleeping well, and that's just not true. Before you go for it, I would like to suggest you read about other options as well as look into some of the literature discussing why CIO may be very problematic for babies. If you read both sides (pro and anti CIO) and feel okay with going ahead with it, then by all means do. Many people are very knowledgeable about CIO and are very for it. For me, it was the wrong decision.

If you are not deadset on doing it and want to try other ideas, try the book the No Cry Sleep Solution. I really liked it, and we have had a lot of success.

We never did CIO, and did not enforce a rigid schedule (although we did have a lose routine and regular naps), and at 14 months old our boys are great sleepers.

There are so many options out there, and you don't have to CIO if you don't want to.

Good luck!

 

I agree about having a routine versus a schedule at this point. We're slowly developing into a schedule, but the twins are the ones leading that. I also put my guys down about 1.5/2 hours after they were last awake. At this point, their first nap is pretty consistent and they usually go down around 9, but how long they sleep isn't consistent yet. Naps after that are 1.5/2 hours after each waking. Some days, its 2 naps, some days 3 naps, some days even a 4th cat nap. Their cat nap is usually from 5:30/6-6:30/7pm. I wake them up then, give them a bottle, let them play for about 30 minutes, and then they're usually ready for bed by 7:30-8pm.

Do you have a routine for naptime and bedtime? We have a longer bedtime routine (bath, swaddle, pacifier, stories/rocking, bed). It's amazing at this point because one of my twins can go from squealing to drowsy just by doing the routine. At this point, one of my twins goes down easily now and the other twin needs some extra rocking, but we're making progress. For naps, I just swaddle and rock. I also recommend the No Cry Sleep book. We're having pacifier issues with one twin and the book has a solution for weaning off of the pacifier.

:grouphug: It takes time, which can be so frustrating. I've been working on naps since the beginning of September and there are still many days when they need to nap each nap on me in order to get good sleep.

 

Thanks for all your replies and advise. Maybe I'm confused. By CIO I mean the Ferber method. Are they the same thing? I am reading his book now and my SIL had success with his method for her really crabby son. I think it sounds good in theory, but honesty I don't know if I could really keep from going to them when they cry. They are just really fussy all the time and I'm afraid they are overtired, I feel like I am running out of options....

If I thought it would work I would go for it. I'm just afraid that they will keep waking each other up. Anyone Ferberize twins in the same room? Is six months too early?

I do think a bedtime routine would help. I have wanted one but they usually get so fussy all of a sudden there is no time for any routine. Maybe I need to pick an earlier bedtime and just go with it.

 

One thing that helped me was when someone gave me a list of drowsy signals. You want to start the routine when they're showing these signs. If they get fussy, its too late. Now that's easy with one baby, but tough with two, especially if you're putting both to bed by yourself. I put them to bed by myself during the week and there are plenty of nights when I take too long with the routine with the first baby and the second baby is fussing or crying. If I remember correctly (its amazing how much I forget already!), I would still do the lotion massage and swaddle, but we skipped stories and sometimes rocking and I would put them in their cribs and keep giving them their pacifiers until they fell asleep. It usually didn't take long because they were tired.

Drowsy signals:
decreased activity (this was the big sign for my twins)
slower motions
less vocalization
weaker or slower sucking
quietness and calmness
appearing uninterested in surroundings
less visual focus
drooping eyelids

Overtired signs:
fussing
rubbing eyes
irritability
crankiness

I used to start bedtime and naptime routines once it had been 1.5 hours since being up and I saw one twin showing the decreased activity. That way, hopefully I'd have the first twin down by the time the second twin was showing drowsy signs.

I definitely recommend the No Cry book if you feel like you're out of ideas. That book is full of different ideas for different sleep issues. The Healthy Sleep Habits author also has a twin version of his book, which helped me get an idea of normal sleep habits and routines and has some ideas for twins. One thing that book says is like how when you feed one, you should feed the other....when one wakes up, you should wake the other up to help get them on the same 1.5/2 hour awake time schedule.

Hope this helps!

 

I posted a separate thread about my question, but I think this is of our problems. Our boys do not have ANY drowsy signals. The only way I can tell if they are drowsy is to give them the binkie and lovey and hold them - if they start to close their eyes, I know they are drowsy. Seriously, they have none of the drowsy signs and I have watched them very closely - they go straight to the fussing, eye rubbing, and crankiness. Anyone else have kids like this??

 

I agree Eagleswings, mine have no warning signs. One of mine rubs her eyes, but by then its too late. The other actually becomes more active, almost hyper, and squeals when tired.

 

You know, sometimes my kids haven't showed any signs. But, I've looked at the clock, and it was within the 90 minutes or so of being awake, and I would just put them down regardless. And you know what-they would sleep! I was flabbergasted myself! Have you tried putting them down BEFORE they should? So no more than say 90 minutes from being wake-put them back down. Even if they don't seem tired. If that doesn't work, maybe do 80 minutes, etc.

 

One of my girls was the same...she would be playing happily and I would think there was NO WAY she would go to sleep. She was usually asleep before her sister! I always watched the clock and whether I saw the signs or not I knew they would be tired at the 90 min mark and I would get them to bed. They always go down so much easier when they don't even LOOK tired.