They never sleep

They never sleep.. they are up all night long. Every 45 minutes. Then about 3am they wake up and want to play for an hour before going back to sleep until 7am. I'm exhausted. They are exhausted. They cat nap all day long and don't sleep well at night. I need help.

Oh.. they are 5 1/2 months (4 months adjusted)

 

I have SO been there - that sounds like exactly how our boys were! :hug:

A few questions:
Do they have reflux?
Could they be teething?

If you sure it is not either of those things, have you considered some sleep training? CIO, Baby Whisperer, No Cry Sleep Solution? We didn't do sleep training until 9-9.5 months and I wish we had done it sooner!!

 

They do have reflux, they are already taking Zantac twice a day at the max dose allowed for their weight and Mylanta twice a day per doctors orders. They are teething but they don't act like they are bothered by it all day.

It's like about 10pm they just flip a switch and go nuts. No warning. no build up. Nothing.

During the day they are just too interested in everything else to be bothered by pesky things like sleep despite our best efforts.

If we try and do nap time they will sleep for 20 minutes and then wake up and yell until someone comes to get them.

As for CIO.. I can't do it.. my heart can't take it. And they don't calm down, they get so upset that they start coughing and choking and throw up. And then I feel worse.

I'll look into the other two methods.

We can't even get them into their crib.

You'd think they were my first 2 kids not my 3rd and 4th.

 

Mine tried to do this to me too. It's awful!!! I'll tell you the truth, we just let them cry it out. Some people don't believe it's ok to do this, but believe me, IT IS!! It's the best thing we've ever done! They are sleeping 12 hours every night now and it's great! Just stick to your guns and it will all work out

 

Do you have them propped up to sleep? My girls had minor reflux issues and the only way they would sleep was in their swing. I didn't have it moving but being propped up helped them sleep a lot better. They were 5-6 months old before I could lay them in their crib to sleep.

 

It sounds like their reflux is out of control. Remember reflux gets worst from 4-6 months, plus teething.there are a lot of factors going on. First get their reflux checked again. I'm telling zantac sometimes makes it worse not better.if its reflux, ask prevacid. Its expensive but worth it.second the first teething is the worst, give them some tylenol at night.finally, many kids got sleeping issues around 5-7 months due to developments, awareness of the world their bodies, and that they can control their bodies better now. Mine were horrbile at the time too. Good luck and hang in there. It will pass I promise!

 

This is exactly what I was going to say, so I'll just say I'll just second these suggestions.

 

My girls did the same thing...it was EXHAUSTING. They would finally get sleepy again around 7am (they were up every 45 min or so from 11 or 12pm until 3am and then up from 3am until about 7am) but my oldest was up around 6am for the day so no sleep for me. I completely understand how you feel :hug:.

They slept in our bed for most or all of the night until they were 10 months old when DH put his foot down. We didn't end up solving the early morning wake-ups and constant night waking until they were 11 months and I finally, out of desperation and total exhaustion, did CIO. Do they sleep better if they are in your bed? I would't even worry about trying to get them into their cribs yet...that will happen eventually. Also, naps didn't become more regular for us until about 6 months and even then 2 out of 3 of them were usually only 30 min.

I wish I had answers for you...I understand how frustrating and exhausting it is to be where you are. It does get better .

 

I have got the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child and even though my babies are only 2 months the suggestions are working. We keep them up no longer than 1-1.5 hours then they go back down before they even act tired (along with reflux your LOS are probably overtired like you said) Perhaps once you get the right meds and get the reflux under control you can start implementing some good sleep habits. We do let our babies cry it out a little and they have learned to self soothe already and it is getting better. We are also dealing with reflux with our DS and it does make it harder to sleep sometimes, but once a routine and sleep habit is formed they get used to it very fast. Good Luck I hope you get some sleep!

 

I vote for getting a sleep training book, no matter which one, and just going for it. We got so desperate for sleep at around 6-7 months that when Healthy Sleep habits arrived in the mail it was like having a publisher's clearinghouse cheque show up. We read it in about a day and started following it to the letter. Just pick a method and try it out for at least 10-14 days and see how it works.

CIO feels cruel in the short term, but long term is really beneficial. It's very important for them to learn how to calm themselves down, and most parents say within 2-3 nights there is a drastic improvement in sleeping through the night. For us it took a bit more because we have very strong willed kids, but there was also no other way for us.

I'd also say you have very over-tired babies.. start a very consistent nap routine on top of sleeping through the night. Put them in their cribs playing even, but just make sure you're putting them down consistently 2-3 times a day. The biggest rule is that sleep begets sleep. Hang in there.. sleeping is the hardest thing to deal with, but you'll get through it!

 

Mine had pretty bad reflux but I never did meds- but I did get them fitted for pediatric wedges and those were fantastic! They sleep at a 45 degree angle plus it kind of cradles them so I think they liked that. Talk to your pediatrician and she/he can refer to a physical therapist for fitting.

Also, we did modified CIO from the beginning- I never let them full out scream but I would let them cry and fuss. They are now great sleepers. What I told myself to help with the feelings of guilt (b/c it is awful to hear your babies cry) is that they absolutely NEED to be taught to sleep on their own and now they won't remember it whereas at 2, if you're still dealing with it, it will be a whole awful mess. Also, kids who aren't ever taught to fall asleep on their own still struggle into adulthood with taking forever to fall asleep. So, keep repeating, "this if for their own good" and "they will thank me later"... my friend implemented CIO with her 4 month old and let her cry for over 3 hours one night before she finally fell asleep. The baby woke up with a huge grin on her face. They've never had sleep problems since.

Also, "they" say when babies cry- they are hungry, need a diaper change, need to burp, or are tired. Yet most people are scared to let them cry if they are tired. I started to know when they were crying from fatigue and that helped me to just not sweat it if they cried. Babies need time without stimulation.

Hang in there. I really like Healthy Sleep Habits (also has a separate twin book!) but also liked Baby Whisperer. If you don't like CIO full force, Baby Whisperer is great. She recommends picking up and laying back down until they fall asleep. It often takes over 100 times the first night but then reduces significantly.

Good luck.

 

My first thought was that you are missing the window for sleep. :hug: It's hard.. I always went 1.5 - 2 hours up time at most. Good luck!

 

My first thought was that you are missing the window for sleep. :hug: It's hard.. I always went 1.5 - 2 hours up time at most. Good luck!

 

Babywise was great for helping me get a schedule and routine going. I followed the book loosely but I do credit it with the 7pm to 7am sleep from 4 months on.

 

Oh, you poor thing. I agree to have the reflux checked out again. Try a different med maybe?

They sound EXTREMELY overtired, and it will be benificial to them if you can let them CIO. Although I know it is hard if they vomit from crying...what are you to do then, right? You can't let them fall asleep in their vomit.

I LOVE Healthy Sleep Habits Healthy Child! A few key points:

1) are you willing to let them sleep on their bellies? (that saved me big time)

2.) Since they are overtired try to get back some of that sleep deficit by putting them down for a nap after 60 minutes of wake time. Mine stay awake for 1 1/2 hour before napping (they are 5 1/2 mos but 3 1/2 adjusted)

3.) are they waking each other up with their cries? Can you separate them?

4.) are you running a fan or humidifier for white noise. My kids have a box fan on FULL BLAST all night long

I sure hope something in here helps you! :grouphug:

 

:hug: Hang in there momma! I second, third, fourth everyone elses's responses!

1.) White noise or any noise in the room
2.) Swaddle?
3.) Bellies-DEFINITELY try stomach sleeping. Annabella REFUSED to sleep on her back, so she was a belly sleeper from the start. Anthony at four months REFUSED to go to sleep one night, I flipped him on his stomach-out like a light!
4.) Check into the reflux
5.) Try giving Motrin/Tylenol if all else fails for teething
6.) I would say 90 minutes tops-put them down. Even if they don't look tired. PUT THEM DOWN. Let them fuss for a few minutes before running into them.
7.) Pick a sleep book and stick with it. It's the BEST thing you can do for your babies. I did CIO for my boys-stopped their middle of the night feeds and the rocking to sleep. They've been sttn since 6 months old-7p to 7a. Annabella sttn as well...
8.) One way to do CIO is to go in and shush them, or pat their backs/butts and tell them they are ok and it's night time. Don't pick them up. You could do that in intervals of 5 minutes or whatever and extend the time each time/night.

Hang in there. It's tough! I honestly think you are missing that all important window of sleep. Once you find it-things should get easier! :hug:

 

Everyone has great suggestions but I also wanted to add that they sound super overtired. I would start trying to get naps under control first (whether that be with CIO or some other method) because once you have naps under control I bet you see drastic improvement in night time sleep! Sleep begets sleep so the better naps they get the better night sleep they get.
I would try some white noise, tylenol for teething, definitley get their reflux meds checked. Also have they started solids yet? Hannah is having a rough time (constipation) with the solids that my boys never had so we always make sure to give her some gas drops before bed too!

Hang in there!! They will sleep!! :grouphug:

 

:hug: Sleep fell apart for us as well right around that age and it was awful! I agree with what a lot of PP said- only let them stay awake for 1-1.5 hours tops during the day, white noise, bedtime and naptime routine. What happens when they wake up early from a nap? My guys would only catnap at that age, but if I held them and rocked them, they would go back to sleep quickly. What time do you put them down for the night? Babies like early bedtimes- anywhere from 6:30-8pm.

When was the last time you had their Zantac dosage checked? If they've grown a lot since then, you may need to up the dosage. That helped us big time. Have you started solids? It may have been coincidence, but that helped our guys.

I wasn't able to do CIO at that age either, so I got the No-Cry Solution book. It has a ton of good suggestions and things to try.

 

Wow I just finished that!!! Mine were ok (somewhat) until abot 3 1/2 months and then I was up all night replacing pacifiers, feeding, rocking. About a month ago the suddenly stopped. DD would wake to eat once where DS would go until 6:30-7:00. Now every once in a while I have to go replace a pacifier but solid sleep most of the tome. My issue now is they are waking at 5:30 for the day. I know the light at the end of the tunnel is very dim but it will get brighter. I think that it has to get horrible before it gets good. I promise it will get better.

 

good luck! ditto on what the others have said.

they are old to "start" swaddling... but if you're not, you might try sleep sacks and tuck their arms inside it... might give them a secure feeling.

I also vote on the "white noise"... we played the same rain on the roof cd track every sleep time forever... I finally moved my dh's alarm clock that has noises on it into their room and play the same rain noise from it. ours are almost 3 and though I don't want them to be addicted to it, I think it helps to drown out the rest of the household noises...

so sorry for the issues, hopefully you all can get some un interupted sleep soon.

you also mentioned "cat naps" during the day, I bet they aren't getting enough good daytime sleep to be rested enough for night time sleep... that theory is in Healthy Sleep Habits I believe... a sleep cycle is supposed to be about 45 min. and if they aren't getting into the next sleep cycle to make a 90 min. nap then they'll be cranky...

 

They are propped up to sleep. We've been trying to get the reflux under control for months. I don't care where they sleep as long as they sleep and they just don't.

I have asked the pediatrician to try Prevacid. she won't do it. They just blow me off and adjust the Zantac dose if any adjusting can be done. We've given them motrin for the pain at night to see if it makes a difference, it doesn't.

 

I'm looking into the CIO methods.. I have always been against it as I'm very much an Attachment parenting type parent generally but something has to give. So we'll see. I appreciate all the ideas everyone has given me and think the big thing I need to do is try and catch the window like everyone has said.

They haven't started solids yet. We are just getting them on the right formula finally. We give gas drops before every feed.

6pm is bed time for them out of necessicity. That is our one good stretch of sleep from about 6 to about 10pm.

 

"Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child". They're soo overtired their cortisol levels are preventing them from getting decent sleep. Good luck!

 

I have been where you are and it totally sucks. I'm sorry for you and your sleep deprivation. My husband literally stayed up ALL NIGHT FOR FIVE MONTHS. He did not go to bed at night, he slept during the day. It was horrible. I decided to do Cry It Out right before their 6month birthday (started with naps) and WOW! It took 3 days of CIO naps until they were going down easily at night and waking up only once or twice during the night to eat. I can live with that. Also, you might want to look into Prevacid. I switched mine from Zantac to Prevacid because Z just wasn't fixing the problem. WOrked wonders.

good luck!

 

We started the Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Twins ideas two nights ago. The girls are fighting for all their worth. We are doing Gradual extinction because I just don't think I can take extinction method straight.

 

Stick with it Cheli...it WILL get better! We went with total extinction...and it only took 2 nights...I felt like gradual just kept giving them a reason to get worked up again... but do what is best for your little ones. You know them best! If you do decide to do extinction I suggest putting them down...then getting in the bath tub with the water running very very slowly...it drowns out the sound of them crying (which broke my heart)...and makes it easier to be tough about not going in...and usually by the time the tub filled SLOWLY the boys were quiet and sleeping and then I was able to enjoy a hot bath to try to relax from having to do it.

Praying this time next week you will all be much better rested!

 

We've been keeping a log of how our nights are going to show us the improvements they are making however small they are...

Night 1
Ember went down at 7:30 and slept until 10pm then woke up again at 12 and every hour after that until 5am and then slept until 9:30. Each time she fell back asleep each time after 1 time of going in to calm her down *we went in after 5 minutes*.
Kaeda went down at 8pm slept until 2am or so ate got a diaper change and went back to sleep until 9am.

Night 2
Both girls went down at 7:00. Both woke up around 10pm for a diaper change and a bottle.
Ember woke up at 12:30 and needed a diaper change but then cried from 12:30 til 2.
Kaeda woke at 2 for a bottle and a diaper change. She fell back to sleep around 2:30.
Both slept from then until 7:30.

Night 3
Bedtime started at 7. Ember finally went down about 8, Kaeda not until 9. (They both woke up periodically and fussed until that point).
Both slept until 1:30 when they got up for a bottle and diaper change (learned to change first and feed 2nd).
Kaeda went right back down and was asleep by 2.
Ember was up until 2:30 (we changed 2nd for her...)
Ember woke up once at 4:30 but soothed herself back to sleep once we gave her the paci back at 5 minutes.
And both girls woke up at 7:30 for the day.

 

sounds like things are improving? Are they formula or breastfed? I was just gonna say if they are formula fed can you try giving them a little more during the day (if needed)? I make sure mine get between 25-30 oz and they sleep straight thru 12 hours (not rubbing it in, just wanna help you!). Then you know they have goten enough during the day and shouldn't need any in the night (maybe ONE bottle).

Are they taking very much of their feedings in the night? If not, try to cut a feeding out so it doesn't become habit.

Also, it seems as if you are changing their diapers alot at night. Are they poopy? If not, I wouldnt even change them everytime they wake. Get you some Huggies night time diapers and they should be good to go for 10-12 hours (unless poopy ofcourse I have found that changing mine just wakes them up. And if I did HAVE to change them I got good at doing it in COMPLETE DARKNESS! LOL!! When they were still taking night feedings I aldo fed them in the darkness.

eta: I just went back to read more carefully and a see that they are only getting fed once at night. I think that is adequate, in my opinion.

 

They are only getting fed and changed once a piece at night. We have to change more frequently because they have super sensitive skin. They get changed after about 6 hours at night and then again in the morning. They are cloth diapered. We have tried sposies at night and they both break out.

As for their eating during the day. they take about 5 oz a feed every 3 hours during the day for a total of about 25 oz and then they get 1 bottle at night of another 5 oz (they always take the majority of it.. maybe leaving an oz so they really are hungry).

We do feed and change in the darkness though. Ember just thinks that this is her cue to socialize.

There really has been an improvement since day one in just 3 days I'm quite happy with the progress they've made

I appreciate all the feedback!

 

I agree...I would try to not change diapers if at all possible... One of my boys has sensitive skin, but as long as I coat him with aveno diaper rash cream before going down for the night he does fine. That extra barrier against his skin works wonders.

They really are making progress though...good job! I know it is hard...but you'll be so happy you fought through it once everyone is sleeping well!

 

As far as the reflux what formula are they on? Willa Grace had reflux and we were on Zantac but still Neosure, no real change, switched to Nutramign and OMGoodness NIGHT AND DAY. after 1 full day on Nutramigin the reflux was SOOOO much better, infact we were able to stop meds at 4 months. She is still a spitter but nothing like she was and is no longer in pain. For teething our Ped had us switch from Tylonal to motrin, handles pain AND inflamation unlike Tylonal.

RUN don't walk to another PED! no no no no no... if my doctor doesn't liston to me and I mean REALLY liston then he/she is no longer my doctor. Willa Grace was on Zantac for 2 weeks, wasn't working, ped switched to Previcid still nothing then switched BACK to Zantac and switched to Nutramigin and BAM! Life was good.

I would also highly recomend this... http://www.homedics.com/home/top-selling/soundspa-lullaby.html it has made all the difference in the world for us. its $20 bucks and has lights and sound so you can put them in their cribs and let them look at the lights and liston to the sound while they put themselves to sleep. We also did CIO and Willa Grace is a CRYER! buddy she will scream like she is dying then throw up then scream some more and I swear the first night we did CIO (last week) She cried for 10 minutes, I went in picked her up told her I loved her, cuddles and kisses back in bed, 10 more minutes same thing, 10 more same thing (Wyatt was asleep way before her) then after 5 minutes the crying stopped. The next day it was 15 minutes the 3rd day it was 5 and now nothing. not a peep. We did the same at nap time. The only difference in bedtime and naptime for us is we do ocean or rain at bedtime but music at naptime.

The other thing I have found with my twins is schedule schedule schedule. Not to maybe the babywise extreme but mornings they go in their swings at 10 and sleep for about 40 minutes, noon into bed with lights and music and they will sleep til 2:30 when i get them up to go get sister. And if they wake up before then they get soft books or toys in their cribs but they stay in there til 2:30. at around 5 they start getting fussy so we do another 30. then 6 is bottle, oatmeal and fruit at 7 bath at 7:30 bottle again at 8 then bedtime no later than 9.

I know its hard and even more so when you are worn out. Good luck. I hope you can find a combo that works for your babies.

 

oh and the diaper thing, we use a concoction that is made up at the pharmacy out of Aquaphor and something else I can ask my ped if you want and slather it on. Willa Grace gets the worst rashes so bad that they will sometimes bleed but this stuff is AWSOME!

 

They are on Elecare. They were on Similac Sensitive and then we switched to Nutrimagen as my two boys were on it and they didn't improve on that much. So we just switched to Elecare (amino acid based 35 dollars a can)formula 9 days ago and it's made quite a difference thus far. I still think they need something more for the acid reflux and plan to push it with them when we go back at 6 months.

Lately their schedule has been:

7:30 wake up, diaper change and bottle
9:00 nap. Kaeda takes an hour to an hour and a half Ember sleeps for 3
11:00 diaper change and bottle for Kaeda
12:00 Ember gets up diaper chance and bottle
1:00 Kaeda goes down for 2nd nap again about an hour to an hour and a half
2:00 Ember goes down for about 45 minutes
2:30/2:45 Both girls up, diaper change and bottle
6:30 Both girls get diaper change and bottle and then are in bed by about 7
They each wake up for one bottle in the night and one diaper change.

Not a perfect schedule but a far cry from where we were 3 days ago.

 

sounds like you are on the right path sister. And man do I hear you on the formula cost. Ours isn't THAT high but for a small can of Wyatts its 13$ the same size can for Willa Grace is 22$ YOWSA... will your doctor give you samples? we are blessed that if our doctor gets in samples of WIlla's she give it all to us.

 

This has to be special ordered from the company so no the doctor can't give us scripts but the insurance covers a certain amount