The circumcision dilemma . . .

Okay, so I'm American and my husband is European. Like most non-Jewish Europeans, my husband is not circumcised and does not believe in circumcision. Well, it looks like one of our two kids is a boy and the circumcision issue has come up. Needless to say, husband is DEAD set against it. We brought it up when we were on holiday in Italy with his family and they were all completely horrified at the notion. Like his mom looked at me like I had grown two heards. But, we are moving back to the US and it is such an American cultural thing (yes, I know that we have been taught that its a hygience isssue but the reality is that there is in a fact a whole world of men outside the US running around with foreskin and they all seem to manage just fine) and I am a little concerned that if our kids grow up in the States, then our son will feel weird because all the other boys are circumcised and he's not. And I'm worried about whether he would seem strange to girls. I never really thought it was a big deal but some of my friends have told me that they would run screaming from the room if confronted with an uncircumcised penis. I dont want girls to be afraid of my son's penis. Plus, I know that if we don't circumcise him then my family will be horrified. On the other hand, I feel as though I should really respect my husband's wishes on this one. He's the father and I just kind of feel like he should really have the final word on what happens to his son's penis, especially since I don't have very strong personal feelings about the matter.

I guess these are the issues that arise when one is building a multi-cultural, multi-national, multi-racial family. Sometimes the decisions we have to make are so bizarre, not just because of how we feel but because there are so many differing opinions on each side.

Anyway, just curious to hear some of you all weigh in on this one. How would you handle it?

Thanks in advance,

Sparkle

 

You'd probably be surprised about the number of boys over here in the US who are NOT circumsized. I don't know the statistics but there has been a growing trend over here not "to snip." This is a situation that is between you and your husband. I don't feel that extended families should be involved. There is a lot of information out there.

I feel it is a personal decision. A lot of people reason that if 'dad' is circ'd, then the sons have to be too because they wouldn't want to 'look' any different than him. How often do they see dad naked? I might be naive but I don't think boys stand around the locker room comparing. Just because you feel he may 'look' different than other boys (who you don't know if they are circ'd or not) to me is not a good reason to snip.

Good luck with your decision! :hug: My dh & I were on the same page on this one.

 

All I have to say is that my grandfather in his 80's had to have a circumcision due to repeated infections......

we had all our boys done.

 

I got my boys circumsized for all the reasons you said. I just didn't want them to feel weird or different in the locker room, and I certainly don't want some girl to talk about my sons penis by saying they wanted to run out of the room. I think you are right, most girls wouldn't care. I've seen them and hardly noticed. I wouldn't worry about hygiene, like you said. IDK it's really up to you and your husband. Flip a coin lol.

 

QUOTE(JicJac @ May 25 2009, 11:34 AM) [snapback]1327193[/snapback]
This is a situation that is between you and your husband. I don't feel that extended families should be involved.

I agree Jackie. My husband and I were both on the same page also. My boys are all circ'd.

 

QUOTE(JicJac @ May 25 2009, 11:34 AM) [snapback]1327193[/snapback]
This is a situation that is between you and your husband. I don't feel that extended families should be involved. There is a lot of information out there.

I totally agree with this. :good:


Our DS is circ'd, it really never occurred to us not to have have it done.

 

DH is circumcised. All males in both our families were circumcised. I was against it. He was waivering. I presented my arguments to him and told him that it was his decision to make, since I didn't have a penis.

*APA clearly states that it is in no way medically necessary or 'cleaner'
*Locker-room argument doesn't hold water these days when it is much less traditional to get circumcised
*It's cruel
*Possibility of botched circumcision (I have seen a surprising number of threads here from folks going back for 'repair' jobs)
*"Matching" Daddy seems like a strange argument to me...They both have penises, at 3 my kids are not anywhere near concerned with differences (which they have yet to notice/comment on). A girl isn't going to get the exact same breasts her mother has, why would this be different? We weren't planning on having any family penis portraits done for posterity, therefore I felt no need to have matching sets.

My boys remain intact. DH is now also strongly against the unnecessary procedure.

 

I left the decision to my husband...being his a male and all. Since he's circumcised he decided he wants his boy done as well.

 

My boys are circumcised, but that was a decision we made together as a couple. I just want to point out that when we were making the decision, the Dr. told us that it has become almost 50-50 in terms of who decides to do it and who doesn't. So if you are concerned about the "American culture" regarding circumcision and how it will affect your son, I don't think you need to be. More and more boys are no longer having the procedure, and once your son is old enough to even notice, he will most likely not be in the minority.

 

This is SUCH a personal decision. DH is circ and I told him that it was 100% up to him. I figure it's a guy thing. We didn't end up doing it. Here were our reasons:

1) The American Pediatriacs Association issued a statement in 1998 (?) saying that circ' wasn't medically necessary...it is only done for "religious and social reasons".

2) The pediatrician in the hospital doesn't do circ' (based on the APA statement) and our regular ped. who had been doing them for 25 years, no longer does them either...also based on the APA statement. When two different doctors and the APA all had the opinion that it wasn't necessary, DH decided that we wouldn't do it.

3) As for looking like Daddy...this is what DH said: "First of all, mine is going to look different than his for a LONG time regardless! And by the time they might start looking alike...well, frankly, we shouldn't really be seeing each other naked anyway!!! Besides, if he ever does ask, I'll just tell him that when Daddy was little the doctors thought that you had to circ' and by the time you were born they realized they didn't need to, so we didn't do it...that's not so tough...besides, I'm more worried about lots of other conversations we'll have someday!"

4) The circ' rate in the US today is down to 40-50%...so by the time your DS is in the locker room (supposesdly oggling at other penises') half the boys will be and half won't...and the rate continues to go down...

5) Ditto #4 for girls. Yes, lots of women our age might be creeped out by it because it's not common among guys our age...but by the time your boy is doing the deal with girls, it won't be so "weird".

6) I was secretly relieved...I really didn't need another wound to tend to.

7) There is a TON of information out there. One of my favorite quotes I read somewhere said "Just because it CAN get infected, doesn't mean we should just go chopping it off. We don't pull out our teeth because they might one day get cavities..."

Lastly, for the pp who said her grandfather had to get circ' because of infections at 80, that is sad. Yucky. But remember, the VAST majority of people don't have issues with it...AND, I have friends whose little boys have constant infections with their cut boys and I even have one friend whose son's circ' was botched and he's had to undergo multiple surgeries to fix it! So, all that to say that you can always find people who have had trouble with it either way!

Good luck and remember, it is up to you and DH...very personal. Not up to anyone on this board, family or your girlfriends.

(I just wanted you to see how we came to decide against it since in our case my boys will look different!)

 

My understanding is that the split is about 50/50 right now in the US. All of my boys are...dh is and like you he had strong feelings about it and I didn't. My last clinical rotation in April was maternity and I witnessed a circ. The doc did use lidocaine but if I had seen that before my boys were born I wouldn't have done it. As far as the friend running away if she saw an un-circ'd man...I really doubt that will be an issue when our kids are grown since it's pretty evenly split right now. If anything, I think uncirc'd will overtake circ'd in the coming years. And if a girl DOES do that, she isn't the one for him, plain and simple. Good luck making the decision!

 

I'm an English mother of 2 boys.

As far as "different vs Daddy" is concerned... all penises are different anyway!!!

I've never known a man have an infection because of his foreskin, and over here circumcision is only done on Jews for religious reasons. It's not dirty or medically necessary to cut off the foreskin - the male body has a foreskin to protect the top of the penis.

And finally... in my youth, I had sex with men with and without foreskins, and a circumcised penis is definitely less sensitive, and less fun for the man once he's grown up.

 

Awww man, I totally forgot about this! Now that we are having a boy we have to...duh duh duh....decide! UGH! Hubby is one way and I am not necessarily one way or the other but I am afraid of making a decision that will haunt him not me for the rest of his life. I think that since it's a man thing I will let my hubby decide. I don't even know what my parents would think and ya know what ... I don't care. :rotflmbo:

Good luck deciding!

 

We are not going to circ our son. We have friends who haven't, and we discussed it with our pediatrician who was on board with the decision. I also believe it is a personal choice, so I won't list my reasons for not. Good luck to you!

 

My boys are both circ'ed for religious reasons. It is completely a personal decision and I would not let this board sway you one way or the other. This subject gets very heated and you will get a rash of good and bad. YOU have to do what is right for your family.

 

Thanks ladies for all the replies. Some of them made me chuckle. :rotflmbo:

I must say that I am surprised and relieved to find that it is becoming almost as common to NOT do it as to do it. I really didnt know that there was a changing trend back home in the U.S. It is also nice to hear from other mothers who decided against it and some of your reasons. Very helpful indeed.

 

QUOTE(DATJMom @ May 25 2009, 06:35 PM) [snapback]1327296[/snapback]
My boys are both circ'ed for religious reasons. It is completely a personal decision and I would not let this board sway you one way or the other. This subject gets very heated and you will get a rash of good and bad. YOU have to do what is right for your family.


Thanks Rachel. As I said in my OP, I'm pretty easy about it either way (I figure that in the long run I will have bigger things to worry about than my son's foreskin or lack thereof), just wanted insight into how ppl feel about the outside pressure. I hope this doesnt turn into a heated debate. Yikes. I'm a lawyer and can debate almost anything, but even I would draw the line at arguing over foreskin. :ibiggrin:

 

QUOTE(DATJMom @ May 25 2009, 09:35 AM) [snapback]1327296[/snapback]
My boys are both circ'ed for religious reasons. It is completely a personal decision and I would not let this board sway you one way or the other. This subject gets very heated and you will get a rash of good and bad. YOU have to do what is right for your family.

I agree with Rachel.

I let dh decide and never regretted his decision. for him, he didn't even have to think about what he wanted to do.
It really is a PERSONAL decision. I also agree Iwo uld never let extended family weigh in on this issue.

 

We didn't have our son circumsized because my husband is also from Europe and he didn't think it was necessary, and I agreed. :good: I definately think this is something between you and your husband and has nothing to do with what your family or his family have to say. As far as the girls go, I'm sure he won't scare them away because he's not circumsized. I have yet to hear of that.

Good luck with your decision. :hug:

 

I agree with the others who have said that this is a decision between you and your husband and only you two can decide what you feel is best for your son. Good luck in deciding :hugs:

 

My dh is also European and intact. He had always said he wanted any sons he had to be circ'd. We have 2 girls so it never was an issue until we found out we were having boys this time. We did research on it and there is NO way I could put my babies through that. I showed him a video of a circ and that was it for him too, our baby boys will NOT be circ'd!!

 

With our first we didn't even think twice, I just did it because thats what my family did, and what my dh's family did. With Mitch, since he was in the nicu for his first 3 mos and they won't do it in the nicu...it made me do some research and really think about it. My dh said absolutely 100%. We had to go to a surgeon and he already had to have a bronchoscopy and tubes put in his ears, so we had them do the circ then too. Its a personal decision, you must do whatever you and your dh decide.
I have heard people say that about the video of circumcision too. But I will be honest, I think watching ANY video of ANY surgery is probably not appealing to me, especially when its your child.
Good luck to you and congrats on a boy!

 

We didn't do it with our first son ( and I am glad we didn't ) and we will not do it with this twin boy.
but we came from eaurope like your DH and it is not done there.
but I read a lot pro and cons and me too found that now it is not medically neccessary. but what I did I watch the video about circ'd and decided against it.
but I have freinds who did it with both of her boys.
I think this is just your ( DH and your) decision.

 

My boys will be circumcised.I really don't want to send them through any pain...but husband wants them to be circumcised and I had a cousin whom was a teenager who went back to have a circumcision later in his teen years and it was painful for him.This must to have really bothered him for him to go back as a teenager to endure this pain. My doc says that it will be a pain that they will not remember.I considered not doing it....but felt that it is something that needs to be done...plus I dated a guy who was not circumcised and it really was gross to see him always having to pull back that skin to have sex (TMI) and afterwards it was even gross seeing how he had to pull it back to clean himself(TMI) it was then that I sorta believed the myth that a woman can catch an infection from a man who was not circumcised by him not always cleaning himself properly and old "bodily fluids"/"sperm" trapped in that foreskin by not properly cleaning be the reason a woman catch something like a yeast infection or something.Plus I did'nt like the noise that was made from all that skin and our bodily fluids being trapped in there. (But doctors went to school for years to study this and if they say that it isn't so I guess they know what they are talking about.) But everytime I personally think of not having my boys circumcised I think of that guy (I don't know maybe that traumatized me) :lol: Plus its too much work...circumcision may be of a convience. Well that's just my take but if I did'nt have to weigh all of that I would spare my boys of any pain. Good for you that you have a reason not to send them through the temporary pain.It is definately up to you & your husband.

 

I believe that these boards (especially for this topic) is one of pure educational purposes. I think that if its your first son, its a big decision and it isn't to be taken lightly and its something that should be decided between the two of you. And just like parenting, you listen to what people have to say and then you figure out what is best for you. Its good to do some reseach on this topic and make a decision that you are comfortable with!

We didn't snip our son and if we have another one we won't have it done to them either....but it was based on our research findings and our personal views and opinions. We are the first of our friends to have no had it done, and nobody questions it. Actually, it never comes up in conversation....nor should it at this point.

You will do what is best for you, DH and your son.

 

We have two sons that are, and the two sons that aren't. And seeing that it has gone well with our uncircumcised boys, we will never do circumcision on any future boys unless medically necessary. I haven't read through all the posts, but just wanted to add that we stressed over the twins and what to do and I wish we wouldn't have stressed so much.

 

We're both European but our children were born in the US. I was shocked to learn about the large number of circumcised boys in the US (my doc said 60-70% when I delivered the twins, this in is in the large city - not sure this matters - , and the number is decreasing in her practice). In Europe you only circumcise for religious reasons (being Jewish or Muslim) for others it's simply a no-no (apart from some less common medical issues probably).

It never was never an issue for us or our son. Hygiene isn't because scientific research shows e.g. Europeans don't have a higher % of infections or anything even though rates are very low. There were no medical reasons to do it. To look like somebody else (which could be an "issue" if we would move back to the US, which we would like) ... is probably the worse argument. We're human, we're all different, penises are different sizes, different shapes and whatever. If there were valid religious and/or medical reasons to do it, we would have done it, even though my husband is not (but his father is since he's Jewish but my dh's mom is not, so he's not).

 

Like pps said, leaving boys intact is becoming much more common in the US, so there's no social reason to circ. There's also no medical reason to do it, per the AAP.

As to what women think - well, again, being intact is getting a lot more common. And I have to say, intact penises are a lot more fun! More fun for the man, too. As someone pointed out, foreskin protects the penis and keeps it more sensitive - and it's another good bit in and of itself too.

My DH (another intact European!) and I consider circumcision a personal choice for our son to make. If he wants to have part of his penis cut off when he's older, he's welcome to. We didn't want to make an irreversible choice like that for him.

 

There is one additional consideration that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned. There are studies that have been done in some countries in Africa that have indicated that circumcised men are less likely to become infected with AIDS. These are properly designed studies and shouldn't be ignored. However, the information is not clear enough at this point for the AAP to change their position.

That said, we did NOT circumcise our son. My family is Jewish, so this was like a slap in the face to them. DH's family is European, but he initially agreed to have it done to pacify my family. However, after a 10 week NICU stay with multiple unpleasant things going on (including 2 spinal taps), we just had no interest in putting him through anything else that wasn't absolutey necessary.

It's been a very difficult issue with my family, but I still stand by my decision.

Yes, an adult man who is not circumcised but wants to be may need to go through a painful procedure, but one who is circumcised and doesn't want to be is really out of luck!

Rachel

 

I agree each family needs to make their decision themselves and i dont think it should be based on "whatever the trend is."

My DH is from Germany and at the time it was "the thing to do" so he is circumcised, but had issues over the years because of it. Where we live most of the drs try to talk you out of it because its not medically necessary. Coming from a medical family, i definitely have learned the pros and cons and with our DS we didn't and i dont intend to with the twins either. Its a lot easier for a boy to make the decision to get snipped if he REALLY wants it than to be in a situation where you were snipped without the choice and wish you werent.

 

For us, it was a no-brainer, in that I am Jewish. My boys had a bris, and were circumsized on my kitchen table. I don't know what video people are talking about, but it was quick, and there was little to no blood for both boys. The only time they cried was when they were swabbed with the alcohol--probably because they were cold. The bris was performed by a man who is also a pediatrician, so he did give me a dose of tylonol to give them, and administered a local anesthetic.

I am only posting this, because people are saying how turned off they were by watching a video. I saw it up close and personal, and it wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

 

I left it up to my husband and he decided to have the procedure done on our sons when they were a couple of days old. My husband was there for the whole thing and said it wasn't a big deal at all - quick, sterile and not traumatic. Both babies healed quickly and easily. My husband is circumsised too. I live in Toronto, Canada. None of the other baby boys I know have had the procedure. I think it's out of fashion in many circles, especially in such a multi-cultural society. I think it's a personal decision and I wouldn't have minded either way.

 

Well, I asked the hubby on this. He's got the 15yr nursing experience to go on an he's uncirced.
Just his opinion is that the locker room thing is bull. He never felt weird or out of place since his parents explained it to him and how to deal with it. Also, the coaches should deal with it in class as well, or that was something they taught in gym when we were in school.

I never was or have been fazed by it. Something my mother dealt with along with birds and bees.

Both have downsides in his opinion.
He's cared for many men that were like him. Nurses sometimes miss it in training and don't know how to clean and care properly. Rash, jockitch, and just being poorly cleaned is sometimes an issue. That comes from a guy who was 15 with ruptured appendix. The doctor had to instruct the nurses since he was unconcious for almost 2 weeks.

The down side he's seen for circ is many times it can become infected. Depends on how sensitive the baby is, how they were circed, and any other illness. Doesn't always mean you didn't keep them clean or etc.

He's opting to have them both circumcised. We just agreed since they are boys that's his realm of experience.

It's a personal choice and something you need to explore more with your husband I think. Don't fight, but talk it out and come to a decision. Good luck!

 

i wanted to have the boys circumsized, and DH did not ( although he is done ). i stated the same reasons for doing it as PP, but DH insists that as long as they learn to keep it clean, there should be no issues. His biggest reason for not wanting them to be snipped is that he says having the skin increases sensitivity and that when they are adults they will be glad we didnt have them done. Not being male, i personally dont know about all that i just didnt want them to fel different than the other boys around them later on, or have to hear a girl go " eeewwwwww it looks wierd ". LOL Needless to say we did not have them circumsized, though i think we should have.


Kenneth and Ian are 1 month old

 

We have three boys all which are not done. Just our choice.

I agree with PP about not wanting another wound to tend to. I have seen a newborn that was cut and it made me sad, that is just me though.

I would say that it is none of your families business either way. It's not going to come up over coffee, "Hey did you get your kid's foreskin removed?" Can you imagine?

I have heard the 50% do and do not chose to do it nowadays.

My hubby has 4 brothers, he doesnt remember who is and who isn't cut. I know that 2 of them are and 2 are not.

As far as the daddy thing, I to agree it not to matter. By the time your kids are old enough to maybe notice a slight difference as such, I doubt they (father/son) would be running around naked together. KWIM?

Again, this is sooooooo personal. And the hubby and I have always said if the boys come to us when they are older and would like to inquire into getting cut, we support his choice and go from there to see about his choices.

I know a 21 year old that had it done and was up and going with minimal pain later that day. However, I have heard not so good experiences too.


Hugs, Mandy

Two more quickies:

About the AIDS in Africa study, I would think it has to do with hygiene and lack of learning about being uncut. Just a thought.

Yes, they say uncut men are more sensitive, cause that part of the penis is hidden so durin gsex when it is exposed, it can be more sensivite. It is the same concept with wearing with shoes, if we take them off on rocks, are feet are more sensitive.