Suspecting auditory processing issues - where to start

Backstory -->  When my DD1, now 10, was 5 and in preschool, her preschool teacher told me she thought Rachel has Auditory Processing issues. She said her own daughter did, so she was very familiar with what to look for. (I thought I had psoted about it then, but couldn't find the old topic) Anyway, this was during a PT conference in min-late Feb. and she told me it was too late in the school year to get the ball rolling and that I should take it up with the school the following year when she was in K. DH & I were not having that, so I called our district's special needs dept, the director was not pleased the preschool said she wouldn't get to it that school year, they sent someone out to evalute her asap, but said they did not find any concerns. I discussed it with her K teacher, who said he didn't see any concerns. I discussed it with her 1st grade teacher, who also said she didn't see that in her. I then dropped it. 3rd grade teacher did comment that she was usually the last doen with an assignment and she had to repeat things to her, but based on the special needs findings at the time and the k & 1st grade teachers comments, I didn't think AP at the time.
 
Fast forward to now---> Last week, her teacher told me she has concerns about the frequency of R being distracted, not following directions, having to repeat herself many times, forgetting/not following basic classroom procedures - such as checking herself in at the beginning of the day, ongoing disorganization & forgetfulness. She has forgotten to bring her homework home 3 or 4 times. There have been days she will insist she doesn't have any homework, and then I'll say "let me see your assignment notebook" and yes she has homework. I don't think she is just trying to get out of it, I think she truly forgot. She has always been a  very good student, but was just moved this week (start of the second 9 weeks) to a lower-level math class. She got a D- on a test that she knew how to do all the problems on the night before.
 
So, for those in the know, I'm wondering - does this sound like Auditory Processing? Or something else? What steps would you recommend we take?
 
It's interesting - I was at the school for something else, her main teacher and her then-math teacher (they break the whole 4th grade in to different math groups) pulled me aside to let me know they wanted to change her math group. We talked a little bit about what had been going on with math & in the main classroom. After about 5 mins, I brought up the preschool teachers AP concerns and the history above - then, they kind of pulled back, suggested I talk to the pedi and basically ended the convo. 
 
Thoughts?

 

I hope someone with more experience with this responds.  I know a lot of it sounds similar to how my 10 year old is regarding school work, but I've never had anyone tell me there could be AP concerns.
I figured it was just an 'age thing' but if it seems to be a pattern it would certainly be something to consider having evaluated.
I think the teachers response/reaction to you asking about AP issues was a little strange. 

 

Just copying my post over from the other thread.  Maybe a mod can close/delete the duplicate?
 
Actually, it sounds like ADD to me.  We had a similar journey with Jonathan.  At 3 1/2, I brought him in for a speech evaluation.  It ended up with him being evaluated by a neurodevelopmentalist.  End result was he was diagnosed with a developmental delay.  At the time, she told me to bring him back at age 6 for an ADD eval. When he went to K, he was dismissed from all special education services, and did well in school through 3rd grade.  In 4th, some issues came up, and we went back to the neurodevelopmentalist, and he was borderline for ADD, but under the line, so didn't qualify.  It wasn't until last year in 6th, that he finally received the diagnosis.  Now he has a 504 plan to help with notetaking and oral directions, because he sometimes, not always, will not register information given to him orally.  If it is written, he never forgets!  Oh, and he is not medicated--not even mentioned by the doctor.
 
Many times things like this become apparent in the 4th grade, because the work starts to become harder, and less concrete.  It also requires them to start using different types of learning and processing.  In addition, 4th grade is when school tend to stop "babying" the kids, and expect more of them in terms of personal responsibility, so issues of organization tend to pop up at this time.  Since ADD is not a IEP type of disability on its own, I would call your insurance and find out if there is a neurodevelopmentalist nearby who can see her--sometimes it takes months to get an appointment.  These doctors look at everything, and can diagnose everything from processing disorders to ADD, to Learning Disabilites, etc.
 
Sorry this is so long.
Good luck!

 

Oops, sorry about the double post. Thanks Sharon, that is exactly the type of direction I was looking for - I didn't know if I should try to get a school evaulation or go through our medical. I will see what I can set up.
 
Here's the thing on the math class they switched her to - I really think it's too easy for her. I'm not sure if there is a class in between where she was and this one or not. Last night and tonight, she finished a page of math homework in two minutes. I think she maybe needs to work a little harder and have additional help at the other class? IDK. I'm not sure she is going to learn anything in this one (yes, I know, it's only been two days). However, the longer she stays out of the other class, the more behind she will be. [SIZE=14.4444446563721px] Last night is was simple multiplication - two digits times one digit. Tonight it was find the missing number in fact families - pretty simple and I'm not really sure that is at grade level. [/SIZE] 
 
Lesley Anne, their reaction did strike me as odd, and one mentioned it would involve a lot of testing. I'm not sure if I read too much in to it or not, the classes were at specials so it may have just been time for them to go.

 

Our journey is VERY similiar to Sharons.
 
DD1- delays from 0-5, then dismissed from services. Had listening therapy as well as other therapies from 0-5. Quirky....possible ASD and spectrum-y behaviors, but communication skill super strong (except  the fact that is SO literal, we have to teach her idioms/expressions/etc). 
 
But that said, 1st- 3rd each and every teacher brings up her 'hearing'. We have done several 'hearing' exams...her hearing is perfect. Better than perfect- she is actually auditorily sensitive to noise/music/sounds. Still has a hard time to listen to movies & watching them. Teachers accommodated informally by using closed captioning, preferred seating, and repeated directions. Explored APD- insurance would not even consider until age 7, but then did not cover 80% of testing process. Schools do not test for APD here (Speech/Language teacher could assess her , but the evals were not the same as the APD eval through insurance/local hearing & language center)- THEN also proven to be causing impact on her  academics at school. Even though she had a hard time and was very literal....since she was successful in school, then she still would not get support (other than what they were already doing) even if APD was diagnosed.
 
The only APD symptoms that she did not fit was difficulty reading (due to not 'hearing' the sound difference). She is and was always an early and strong reader, only difficulties are with interpreting social/emotional actions of characters occasionally.
 
She has learned some super coping skills, but still often does not do well auditory directions. Her verbal recall is not terribly good and if there is any distractions (noises, movement in background, etc) it is almost nonexistent or she remembers the incorrect things (the noises, what her neighbor was wearing, etc instead of what she should have been listening to) She uses visual cues, asks for repeated directions, and/or lots of written directions. She is very routine orientated and that is key to success for her....but if you break routine, she forgets things (homework, shoes, where things are,planner, her lunch, etc). We also use visual lists/task lists and that works well until she 'memorizes' the order.
 
She just turned 9 and is in 4th grade. So far it is going well, her teacher notes she daydreams a lot but still seems to do well academically. She can be hard to get her attention verbally and he often has to be standing nearby and/or make eye contact. She is a quiet, but not shy student.
 
 
I *would* contact your pediatrician and your insurance. See what it will cover via academic and/or ADD and/or APD assessment. Also look into the school and see what supports they may try informally and/or if they are concerned about ADD/APD/Learning Concerns, etc.
 
Then I would explore a 504 or IEP if needed, depending on what assessment shows and/or what her needs are.
 
Lastly, a simple check of her hearing and eyes should be done. Just to make sure! 

 

I am a former sped teacher, now a counselor who works with kids.  So I have a fair amount of experience with the sped process and with diagnosis.
 
It could be auditory processing, but it sounds like she was already evaluated for that?  Do you have a copy of her testing?  If not, request it and see what it said.  If she was borderline, request to have her tested again.  Here is a link from a reputable website that gives an overview of auditory processing issues:
http://www.ldonline.org/article/8056/
 
That said, it sounds possibly like ADHD inattentive type as well.  Technically there is no "ADD" anymore.  It''s ADHD inattentive, ADHD hyperactive, or ADHD combined type.  ADHD is a medical diagnosis - most schools will not recognize it unless a medical professional or mental health professional (psychiatrist, psychologist, counselor) diagnoses it.
 
Ask the school to call a meeting.  We call it student study - some places call it child find, child study, etc.  Ask them to review previous testing, re-eval for auditory processing.  In the meantime, see your doctor and talk about ADHD inattentive.  He or she should have a checklist of the diagnosis criteria.  Here is a website that gives a quick look at the criteria:
http://www.cdc.gov/NCBDDD/adhd/diagnosis.html
 
If the doctor supports a diagnosis and you agree, have him or her write a letter to give to the student study team.  Keep in mind it could be BOTH auditory processing disorder and ADHD together.  It doesn't have to be one or the other.
 
Edited to add:  Here is a good article that talks about the differences between ADHD and APD.
http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/731.html
 
Hope this helps!

 

Thanks for all the great info. I really appreciate it!
 
I should have been more specific - the special needs preschool sent someone to observe her at her preschool, I don't think they did any actual testing that day, there was never any testing that required a seperate meeting, although I guess there would have been something written up regarding the visit to the preschool. This was the spring before she started kindergarten, spring 2010. We have since switched school districts. Would that have been sent with her school records? Or, would the previous district still have it, or are things not kept that long?
 
Should I ask the school to call a meeting for a student study first, have the pedi evaluate her first, or move forward on them both independently?
 
Thanks!

 

I would do the evaluations (student study & Pedi) independently, but making both aware that you are pursuing them concurrently. The information they provide may be useful to each other and to you.
 
Keep records and copies of all paperwork & notes you get along the way!
 
The school likely will follow RTI procedures, especially in Math. Your Pedi is likely to have a good neurodevelopmental specialist referral, which the school is not likely to have on staff ( a psychologist, Resource Teacher, and/or SLP may do various assessments).
 
A great website is http://www.wrightslaw.com  The topic list is on the left. You can scroll and read about the legal requirements, as well as information on ADHD/APD, etc specific to legal rights under the laws. It also has great 504 & IEP info.
 
 Did they assess and determine your DD was not eligible or did it not go that far....just an observation? 'Official" paperwork  (as in formal meeting and assessment of eligibility of services) will follow from PreK to K, but often only if the student still gets services. If students are no longer eligible, often the exit paperwork is kept on file a certain number of years and parents are given a copy. I know K- 12 student study files are kept a certain length of time. If it is unofficial-- 4 years later, it is not likely useful data other than a notation that such behaviors have been observed for many years. Students that get services are evaluated for eligibility every 3 years because so much can change as a child. Contact the old school district, doesn't hurt to try and get ahold of any paperwork they may still have. But it would not likely be a heavy deciding factor either.

 

I am also a special education teacher.  Definitely, you can pursue both angles.  If you are going ahead with the school evaluation, you need to, ASAP, send in a letter asking for a parent requested evaluation.  From the day they receive the letter, they have 30 days to schedule a meeting, then another 60 days to complete an evaluation.  Now, my school district, in that first meeting, if they deem necessary, has been known to schedule the outside neurodevelopmentalist.  One time, their appointment was before the one I could get scheduled, so I cancelled mine.
 
Schools cannot diagnose ADHD (my son was diagnosed last year as ADD, so I don't know when the designation changed), or PSD, both are medical diagnoses.  If you have the initial meeting, and they say that these are the probable issues, they may decide not to go forward with the evaluation process, and tell you to come back once you have a medical diagnosis.
 
One thing that I did with Jon, which you may want to do, is speak to the teacher/principal, and say that the new math class seems to offer her no challenge, and that you are looking into getting her evaluated, so could she be moved back to the other class, and you will get her help as needed.  That way you are being proactive.  With Jon, I asked that he be placed in an inclusion class (2 teachers, one regular and one special ed), the Principal agreed, but ended up placing him in a "split" class--one teacher, but only 15 kids--much better for him than the inclusion class which had 30!
 
I know this is a lot to process.  Please feel free to ask if you have any questions along the journey--and it IS a journey!

 

I agree with those that say get a neuropsych work up at this point.  My DD exhibited all the signs you mentioned and she has an ADHD inattentive diagnosis.  One of my sons was exhibiting similar symptoms and his pediatrician required a full neuropsych eval  (we switched docs between dd and DS being diagnosed).  It was a good thing we had it done though.  He is not ADD but rather has a significant visual motor delay/disorder.  We would have never even known about that option if it wasn't for the eval.  Either way, I hope you get some answers soon.

 

Go ahead and ask the school to call a student study meeting, and make an appointment with the pediatrician as well.  You can take anything the pedi gives you to the initial student study meeting to support moving forward with the process.
 
Technically, there has been no "ADD" for many years, since the DSM-IV came out.  But lots of people still say ADD.

 

My dd's ent said that a proper evaluation for apd isn't possible until after age 7. I would get her evaluated and take it from there. In the meantime can they supplement her math work in the lower class if there isn't a class in between? Boredom may lead to other behavioral problems. Good luck!

 

Thanks everyone! Here's an update. I scheduled a checkup with her pedi, the teachers & DH & I filled out assessment forms (Vanderbilt) beforehand. After talking to us and reviewing the forms, the Pedi said she saw enough evidence of ADD (quoting pedi)  to start her on a stimulant - she recommended Vyvanse. DH & I decided we wanted to do the neuropsych eval before starting her on anything. I met with a psychologist and she has had her first of two two-hour sessions, the second will be next week. 
 
Parent teacher conferences are tonight. I'm really concerned about the math class they switched her to. I feel like it is all review and they put her in there because she was being too high maintenance in her other class. I don't like feeling that way about her school, it's the first time I've ever felt that the school wasn't doing the right thing for one of my children, and I don't like it.  I know the teacher only has so much time, but I really think this class is doing her a disservice, and the longer she is in it, the harder it will be for her to move out of it. DH agrees with me but "doesn't think it's that big of a deal". 
 
Is multipling two digits by one digit and dividing two digits by one digit considered fourth grade level math? I'm pretty sure she was doing similar problems at least a year ago. She has told me herself she doesn't think it's the right class but she wants to stay in it because she likes it being easy and her two best buddies are in it. Suggestions for handling this conference?

 

Monday's homework

Oops trying to upload if I can change the size!

 

I am glad you are getting a good response.  I agree with waiting on the meds until all evaluations are complete.  As for the math, yes, one digit by 2 digit is 4th grade math.  3rd grade multiplication and division are all about facts.  In 4th grade, they start learning how to divide with remainders.  They don't get to 2 digit divisors until 5th grade, where they will also learn to write the remainder as a fraction, or continue it as a decimal--although some wait until 6th to teach that.  Last year's teacher may have pushed ahead at the end of the year--sometimes if things are going well, the last month or so, they will challenge the kids with math that is coming up the following year.

 

 I agree with Sharon here---- wait to do anything until the evals are complete. Sometimes they show exactly what you suspect and other times the results are full of surprises that may have been interpreted differently and/or have been previously compensated for by the student.
 
I will add that in 3rd my kiddos were doing 2x1 and 2x2 = X in a standard math class. They also wrote remainders as fractions (non simplified) and as R (remainder) X.
 
In 4th they are doing 3x3 with zeros ( 420 x 200) right now with 3x3 of varying digits by end of year.
 
Facts were practiced alongside math instruction instead of focus. Addition/subtraction (through 20) is expected mastery by end of 2nd. Basic multiplication by end of 3rd (through 10s) and Basic all facts through 10s is expected at a faster rate by end of 4th. Though I LOVE that their 4th grade teacher does not do timed tests but rather brief computer review that is individualized.
 
 
I think some of the math sequence may be dependent on the curriculum your area uses. We use Everyday Math (or Chicago Math- depending on local terms). It spirals...so a lot of material each year with deepening exposure and ideas each year. Also each 'Unit' of study has review of past material. Some people love it and others intensely dislike it! 
 
I know that a wide variety of curriculums are being used to meet Common Core Standards. EnVision, Everyday Math, Investigations, Go! Math, Saxon Math, and others.   Each fulfills the Common Core requirements, but may do so in varied ways or sequences.
 
 
As far as classes.....I would advocate for what you think is best for your DD. I also would ask for more assistance in the first class if you think that will help or even seating changes (front?). If only one test was a poor grade, I would give it more time. Some units of study or just 'days' are tougher for kids! 
 
As for the homework. Somehow know the routine (we ALWAYS have math M-Th unless there is a holiday. So my kids know that there is no forgetting or leaving it at school) if you can and also see if you can print homework at home if it is left at school. The teacher could even give your DD the weeks worth on Monday to help her stay organized.