sleep, what is sleep? it's been so long

So, before I found out I was pregnant with twins, I had a whole idea of how I would parent: family bed, attachment parenting, didn't see the need for an actual changing table (seemed like a useless piece of furniture), no CIO, etc. etc.

Then we found out we were having twins and I started wondering how some of my ideas would work (mainly the family bed). The boys were born and we found ourselves running out to get a changing table and we loved it. After 5 months we got them cribs (which I always thought looked like little jails and really hated) and they loved them. We have been using teething tablets, but the teething has been so bad that the other day I found myself at Target looking at all the baby oragel possibilities wanting to find the strongest that existed and I realized that I wanted to drug my babies!

So this all leads to the sleep thing. The boys are 9 months old and are 19lb 5oz. and 20lb. 5 oz. They are still drinking a bottle in the middle of the night! Sometimes it is 4oz. Sometimes it is closer to 7oz. (they are offered 7oz. bottles). We saw our pedi yesterday and she said it was time they learned to eat during the day only. I agree! What with the pains of pregnancy and all it has been over a year since I had more than 2 or 3 hours of sleep at a time. I feel like I am losing my mind slowly.

On top of the night feeding, they wake up after every sleep cycle and we have to pat them back down. So this means they go to bed around 7:30, wake up about 1/2 hour later crying/screaming and we pat them back down (which often involves picking them up and doing some gentle bouncing and patting and then back in crib and some patting). Then at 10:30 usually one of them wakes up (always waking up crying). Pat down. 11:30 the other one pat down. 12:30 someone is up. 1:30 someone is up or hungry. 2:30 the other one is up or hungry. 5 or 6 in the morning there is patting down. they are up between 6:30 and that miraculous day they actually slept until 7:30. Basically I am up just about every hour of the night.

Despite my pre-parenthood insistence that I would never do CIO, I am starting to think it is the only way. We have a TINY house and the boys are in one room together. My fear is that they will wake each other up and then we will have two screaming babies. Also, do we just cold turkey quit giving them bottles in the middle of the night? And do people prefer Weissbluth or Ferber books? I am really not looking forward to this, but I am starting to worry that I am going to fall asleep at the wheel I am so tired. I can't even tell you how many loads of laundry I have rewashed recently as I had no idea if I actually put soap in the washing machine or not. I also put the clothes in the dryer and then forget to turn it on... only finding out hours later when I go to take the clothes out and they are wet. :blink:

Am I the only person with 9 month old babies who don't sleep? If I put them down drowsy, but not drowsy enough, then they wriggle and sit up and look at me with a big smile and giggle. Cute, but not what I am looking for.

We had colic and really bad reflux, so I have waited until that was over to do anything. Then there was a big illness that hit right as one of them actually did start to sleep through the night. Back to square one after that.

So basically: boys not sleeping, we are going crazy, help!

 

I've been through this! I have been on both sides of he fence. I never let myoldest CIO and did what you desciribed and he finally started sleeping through the night when he was 4!! It was rotten!

Let me tell you one thing first... To get them to sleep through the night you are going to have to break their habit of getting waking up and getting a bottle. Here is my suggestion...

First, dont go in there and pat them back to sleep, if they cry for 5 minutes, go tell them they are okay, that you love them and its time to go back to sleep. Then leave... If they dont calm down, let them go 10 minutes... If they are still crying go ahead and offer them a bottle of water. This may go on for a week or two, but then you will start to notice that they know you arent going to come in and "comfort" them and they will learn to comfort themselves... And more than likely they arent going to like the water bottle, so they wont really drink them, so you will be able to stop giving it to them... That has worked for me.

Another way is the flat out cold turkey, strait up CIO, which is REALLY hard IMO. This is where when they wake up, you just let them cry for about 15 min (if it goes that long), then go in and "comfort" them for a few seconds, then leave again, then over and over an dthey usually get it in about a week.

I have a few other suggestions, you can PM me if you want... I have 5 kids and a different night sleep story for each of them! LOL!

Anyway, to answer your question, no you are not alone!!

 

Here is my CIO story!!!

Around 5 1/2 months, I decided to try CIO. Before doing CIO, my boys would have their 7:00 bottle and then go to bed. Then they woke between 10-12am for another bottle AND then 2 times during the night. I came to the realization that they did not need to be eating that much at night anymore. They had 4 6-8 oz bottles during the day and solids twice a day. I finally realized they are eating out of habit and I could not do it anymore physically. My boys are big boys and were in no way lacking nutrition!

I decided that I would give them one bottle each after their 7:00 bottle if they woke up crying and then if they cried anytime after that, I just let them cry. We did that for about 2 weeks. After the first night of not feeding them after their last late night bottle, during the day they began to drink 8 oz consistently rather than sometimes 5 oz. Then, after those two weeks, we did a true CIO after their 7:00 bottle to eliminate all night feedings. They cried a little during the night but I just left them and they ended up sleeping anywhere between 6-7. When they woke in the morning, they were happy and not crying of hunger. That proved to me that they were eating out of habit.

So officially, I would say 6 months and 1 week until completely sleeping throught the night.

Also interesting was that I have heard if they wake to eat even if it is just a little, it is out of habit. My boys though were eating a lot at night. Well, I stopped feeding them anyways. My boys were in the higher weight percentile and my Dr. said they wont turn into skeletons if I didnt feed them in the middle of the night! So, even though my boys drank full bottles at night, with a few days of CIO, they didnt wake to eat anymore.
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Here are notes from my journal during this time:

On Tues, when they usually wake for their 1st middle of the night feeding, I let them CIO. I did not feel bad at all when I heard them cry. THis is because I knew they just ate and diaper changed. One slept right through the others cry and then the next hour the reverse happened. I also did not feel bad because I made the decision to CIO because I was so tired and it felt great to not get up and get a bottle! They basically cried on and off throughout the night.

The next night, they slept until 4 (huge for us!) and then I had them CIO. They woke at 6:00 and were ready for their bottle. The good thing is they ate 4 8oz bottles that day. They had room since they were not getting calories at night.

Last night they woke at 5:30 and i had them CIO until 6:00.

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We never went in to sooth them. I always felt like that would be taking a step backwards and they would expect me to come in when they cried. I wanted them to teach themselves how to fall asleep on their own and how to go back to sleep on their own after waking inthe middle of the night.

They sleep through each others cry to this day. I am still amazed by that. We have a small house and they share a room.

 

I am SO sorry that you are so tired! I know what you mean about all the ideas you have about parenting BEFORE you become one - isn't it funny how things change!

I used my own method of CIO - I am sure it is a mix of a bunch of different ones that are out there but I never bought a book - I just did what felt right to me.

We were in the same situation you are - the first night that I decided we needed to CIO my DH was out of town and my mom was staying with us. She was freaking out because they both started screaming - but I waited to go in. I found that going in every 5 minutes made it worse so I switched to 10 minutes. It took about 30 minutes for them both to go to sleep - once they did they slept ALL night! I didn't worry about one waking the other because eventually they have learned to sleep through the others crying.

I think the most important thing is to not pick them up - sooth them for a minute in their crib and then leave the room again. Wait 10 minutes, then go in, then leave, then 15 minutes, and so on.

I was surprised - it only took about 2 nights for them to learn to sooth themselves. Now they sleep from 7 to 6 with only the occasional pacifier replacement. Also neither one ever cried for more than 45 minutes (I went in probably 3 or 4 times during that 45 minutes) and that was on a BAD night when she was cranky and overtired.

I worried about naps after we got the night sleeping under control.

I can't help you with the night bottles because we never had a problem with that. Maybe if you wake one to eat when the other wakes and try topping them off before bed...

Good luck!!!! I hope you get some sleep soon - 9 months is way to long to go without at least 6 hours of straight sleep!!

 

I agree with the PP advise. The only thing I found was that the Ferber method--going in every 5 min. made things worse. So I remembered back to my babysitting days, when a parent taught me the 20 min rule. Basically, leave them alone and only go in if they had been crying more than 20 min. BTW, mine never cried more than 10 min, but having 20 min in the back of my mind made it less stressfull for me. Mine still, at age 5 years, share a room and one could always sleep through the others' crying.

 

Reading your story ... I think it's time, and CIO will most likely be part of it. It's normal for them to wake maybe once or twice UNTIL 9 months of age, but not after, and especially not every hour or so.

My twins are 7 months old and I consider them good sleepers (not perfect like my first). However, over the past 3-5 months they have made no improvement and they still wake up around 5 am (go to bed at 6 pm), which I do not consider sleeping through the night, even though they go back down until 7 am. So I emailed my story to our ped and he called me back and we discussed how to proceed. I am now supposed to put them down a little later every few days and slowly (around 6.30 pm is the goal; now 6 pm because they nap well and they don't show signs of overtiredness) and no more feedings before 6 am. He told me once children get older they have less interest going back to sleep when they wake at 5 am (now they still do) so we want to avoid that, especially because we know they can do it, but often choose not to.

So yes, I've been up this morning since 4.45 am, when #1 started and #2 woke up (we started putting them together yesterday as well since my son was still in our closet, but outgrowing the travel pack n play so that needed to be done anyway). My son cried for an hour, my daugther for about 45 minutes, then she woke up 30 minutes later (6 am) and he woke up too, so we fed them and put them back down again. We're trying again tonight and the next couple of days. I am sticking to the plan. My daughter has been sleeping 10-12 hours since 2 months of age, my son since 4 months ... they gained a considerable amount of weight, are healthy, eat well, sleep through the night occassionally, so this needs to be done. I may get less sleep but I am hoping for positive results within the next couple of nights. I know I won't regret is. I have to report back to Dr. W. next week ... fingers crossed.

I would definitely suggest Weissbluth's book, it's full of success stories and I trust him 100%. Your children need to sleep, and they'll be happier babies and therefore you'll have a happier family. Good luck!

 

Just so you know we did CIO around the time seamusnicholas mom did. It does work. The first night or two is rough for everyone but, it is amazing how they can sleep through each other cries.

We are now back to our little ones getting up at night. Not for food but, we think for cuddles. We brought this on ourselves because Noah was going through night terrors and would wake up screaming in a dream like state and scare Jacob out of his wits. So, we would soothe both of them. Also, Noah had surgery two weeks ago and is almost finished healing. So, we would go to him for him pain meds and to soothe him when he hurt.

Consequently, my little knuckleheads, like to wake up a couple times a night to be held. DH and I decided when we get the all clear from the pedi uruologist this week we may have to go cold turkey and go back to CIO. It is going to be rough and painful for all of us for a few nights especially for my Jacob. But, in the end it is for everyones good in the house because I feel like I did back in February when we began the inital CIO....EXHAUSTED.

Good Luck to you.

 

I did CIO with my DS last night for the first time. My DD has been sleeping through the night (7:30 to 7:30) for two weeks and it was all done without CIO. I was hoping for the same with my DS, but he has always been my worst sleeper (day and night). He was having a bath and a bottle and going to sleep at 7:30, waking up for 6 oz at 12:30 and taking 2oz at 5am but not going back to sleep until my husband left for work at 8am. My DH is his nighttime buddy (we split up the kids at night when they were almost 3 months old so we could at least get some sleep). Anyway, DH is gone to work all day, gets home just in time for the bath and bedtime so we thought that DS might just be waking up that early to spend more time with his daddy. DH never played with him at 5am, but just giving him the bottle and holding him must have been enough to form the habit. So, I finally broke down and said we would do the "extinction" method of CIO. I started with trying to get them on a more regular napping schedule the past week. Then last night, when DS woke up at 12:30 he got his full bottle from me - not DH (we think he is still hungry at that time - he is 18 1/2 lbs but just doesn't have the knack for solids yet) then when he woke at 5:30 am, neither of us went in to get him. He cried like **** for 20 solid minutes (my DH and I had to talk each other out of getting him that whole time - it is heart wrenching) Then, he was very quiet for about 40 minutes. Then, there was another bout of crying for 10 minutes. Silence again. Finally, the next time he cried it was 7:00 and we both ran in to grab him. He was smiling and cooing at us. He was just so happy to see us. Tonight, we are going to do it again and are hoping that it won't take long for him to learn to sleep until we get him in the morning. Again, this is the hardest thing I have done so far as a mother.

 

I was like you with my first. I couldn't stand the thought of CIO, I would never do that to my baby! Well, let me tell you, she was the worst sleeper ever! She & I were just laughing about that tonight (she's 11 now) when we put the twins down for bed. With them (and my other two) I did the whole CIO thing & it does work! It is torturous for the parents for the first couple of days but then, miracle of miracles, they sleep! It's all worth it then. I never went back in every 5 minutes, I agree that just get them started again. I would peak through the crack in the door to make sure they were all right & occasionally would go pat their back but not too often. I didn't find the need for a set schedule or method, I just went with instinct. They sound so sad & mad but they wake up the next morning with a beautiful smile on their face after a good night of sleep.

Also, I was concerned with my two waking each other up, but I let them CIO in the same room, in the same crib & had no problems. I have seen one screaming their head off while the other slept soundly right next to him/her. I think they are so accustomed to each other that it doesn't seem to bother them. Plus, I think they are a comfort to each other. Anyway, good luck - I hope you are sleeping through the night soon!

 

thank you so much for posting this post Simone - Ashley is waking up a lot at night and I feel it's time to try desperate measures ie CIO. Thanks to everyone who posted their replies in this thread.

 

Thanks everyone for your support and advice!

I talked to a friend last night who has grown children and she was very supportive (she wanted me to start CIO that moment!) which helped too. I was all primed to go by the time I got off the phone with her, but DH wasn't. He says he totally dreads doing this so it seems he wants to put it off. However, last night, after the predictable need to go back in 1/2 hour after they fell asleep (they always wake up screaming - it is so awful), I was in their room at 11, 11:40, 11:55, 12:10 (that was one of them who just wouldn't settle back down, or would and then would re-awake), 1:15, 2:15 to feed one, 2:30 to feed the other, 3:25, 6:10, and then they woke up at 7:30ish (which was late for them).

They ate 5 oz. overnight and then only wanted 3 in the morning - which tells me that they really don't need the night feeding - they could eat in the morning instead rather than refusing that bottle.

DH helped me with the feeding, but other than that I am the one going in their room constantly. Maybe their crying wakes him up (he could sleep through a tornado - really), but he doesn't get up. So today he is all sullen and says he is just soooo tired and that is why he is in a bad mood. Okaaaaay.

I think I need to start some kind of CIO tonight - I just can't take it and I am mighty tired of DH being tired and irritable from his "lack of sleep". Grrrr. Sorry, I am rambling into a vent here.

 

I did CIO when my DH was in Vegas for the weekend!! I found it easier because I didn't feel like we were judging each other if you KWIM.

If your DH isn't ready - maybe let him know that tonight is his night to get up with the kids while you sleep - though you will of course help him out with the feedings.

 

In order to eliminate the night bottle, we started cutting it back by an ounce every 2 nights. That way its not gone cold turkey and they gradually get used to not getting a lot in the middle of the night (at about 3 am). It also reassured us that we weren't starving them! Once we cut back to 2 ounces, we decided that was it, until 5 am. We agreed if they made it that long, we'd give them a "snack" to hold them until 7 am.

The way we did CIO was to go in 5, then 7, then 10, then 12 minutes and every 12 minutes after that the first night and just reassure them, although I'm not sure how much they heard through the screaming! (Basically the Ferber method, although at 4 am, its hard to add 12 minutes to the time!) The next night, we started with 7 minutes and built up from there. The first night was awful--no one slept. The second night, Nate woke up twice and we only went in once because he was able to get himself back to sleep on his own. Madeline slept through his crying. The next night they slept from 7:30 am to 7 am and have been pretty much since. (Except Nate has learned to roll over only in one direction and gets "stuck" against the rails of the crib and starts crying around 4 am. We have been moving him, but now I think we'll have to do CIO again so he can teach himself how to roll over the other way.)

Best of luck to you! It is tough, but SO worth it. Everyone is MUCH happier!

 

They are old enough to CIO. Think of it this way, if you let them CIO for a few naps/nights they will sleep better, you will sleep better, they will be pleasant as will you.

 

Thank you everyone. We did it last night and it wasn't as awful as I thought it would be. Ok, it wasn't fun, but I thought we would be up all night and we weren't.

Babies are very forgiving - they were all smiley this morning. Who knew?

So we will forge ahead with the CIO.

Again, thank you so much for your support!!