Should we do CIO?

My twins are almost 5 months old, 4 months adjusted age. I thought we'd made it through that nasty 4 month sleep regression--we did have a good week of sleep & even one night of STTN! But for the last 2 weeks, their sleep has been really erratic. We put them down at 8:30pm at the latest & one or both of them has started waking up crying around 11pm & it takes about an hour to get him/her back down. And then they are both up again around 4am starving & eating around 4-6 oz of formula, but usually one or the other will want to stay up & play. Since DH & I have to get up at 6am to go to work, this doesn't leave us a whole lot of time to sleep & we're exhausted (when DS started crying last night, I did too! I'm so tired!). This all started when DS developed a bad cold & would wake up with coughing fits & now he's got an ear infection. So my question to all of you who've BTDT is....do you think they'll go back to sleeping better once DS is feeling better? Or could this be the real 4 month sleep regression? Should we do CIO? I'm not 100% convinced that they can self-soothe yet because the few times I've left DS in his crib when he was fussing/crying, he'd work himself up to screaming hysterically & then it took forever to calm him down.

So really at this point, I'm at a loss as to what to do. If anyone has any advice or suggestions, please let me know. I keep hoping this is a phase, but it's been going on so long that I'm beginning to wonder.

 

I believe they are too young and anytime a child is ill is not the time to let them cry.

I know it is tough. Try taking turns with your DH. It will pass.

 

:hug:'s momma. My personal belief is that they are too young for CIO plus I wouldn't do it while a child is sick. He is most likely still feeling icky from his cold {maybe congested? still some ear pressure pain?} and that's why he's getting up for some cuddle time with you. From my experience, my two always slept much worse when they were sick {still do} but about a week or so after they are feeling 100% better, they go back to their old ways of sleeping much better. :good: I know this is taking a toll on you and your hubby, and it is so hard, but it will pass. :hug: :hug: Hang in there, you are doing a great job!

 

I'm sorry you're so exhausted. :hug: :hug:

I wouldn't do sleep-training until they're better. We never did CIO, but there are definitely books out there that help with sleeping problems without CIO, I'm thinking The No-Cry Sleep Solution, and The Happiest Baby on the Block. You might want to read those for ideas.

Of course, every child is different, and I think keying into your kids' individual personalities is the best first step. For example, my DS soothes himself very naturally. We basically lay him down, and see him again in the morning, unless there's actually something wrong. My DD is very different, she works herself up into hysteria. She would totally be the child that cried for hours and threw up if we CIOed her. So, we listen carefully for the kind of fussing she's doing. There's a certain kind that we need to nip in the bud, or it will turn into full-scale hysterics, there's another kind that's just settling herself down, maybe she's not even awake for it.

Have you tried swaddling at all? That was our biggest sleep aid for the first few months. I don't know if four months is too late to implement it, but for ours that was a clear signal that it was still night-time--even when we were still feeding them in the middle of the night, they would usually fall right back to sleep.

A lullabye CD and a night-light still helpr ours.

 

At their age, they're probably still hungry during the night. One thing to try is dream-feeding. Right before their regular middle of the night wake-up time, wake them up just enough to give them their bottle. Then put them right back to bed. With any luck, they won't wake fully and will still have a full tummy.

When I dreamfed my girls, I actually put their crib at an incline so I didn't have to get them out of bed at all. I just fed them in their crib.

 

I feel your pain. We are in the same boat. We both work and our guys regressed about when your did. They have just this week gotten better again (knock on wood!), but they seem to ebb and flow with...??? who knows what! We tried CIO, but they got hysterical. A couple of times it has worked, but it depends on the type of crying. It doesn't consistantly work for us.

I agree with the last suggestion try the no cry sleep method. Every baby is different.

 

No CIO when they are sick, IMO. Once they get over their illness they'll most likely get back into their routine. My girls still have erratic sleeping when they are ill and never STTN when sick. So, even though it's difficult (and I know b/c I had to get up at 5 am every morning for work at that age), try to be patient and let him work it out. When he gets better he will probably go right back to STTN.

 

I am sorry to hear about your tough nights! Both of my little ones were sick last week, and I had NO SLEEP. I know what it feels like to get up and cry right along with them... I did the other night. My poor DH hadn't expected me to need his help and he was sick too, so he took some Niquil... meaning he was no help! He said he heard me, but was so knocked out that he couldn't get up and help. I'm telling you this to let you know you are not alone!

How long has your little one been on meds for the ear infection. Could it still be hurting? One thing my ped. told me with one of my older children when they were babies was, that if your little one's ear is hurting you can put a drop or two of anbesol liquid in the ear to numb it! It really helps! There have been times when my two little ones were just so overly tired that they were fighting their sleep. At that time there is nothing really you can do except for CIO. But at that point it shouldn't last long and it wasn't when they were sick. I don't think this is a situation that CIO will really help. I don't think they are trying to just get mom and dad to come visit at night. Just keep it as dark and quiet as you can when they eat. If they still want to play give them a toy in their crib turn off the light and let them go for it. Never know, it might just help! I hope you get some ZZZs soon!

 

I agree with all the PP's that they are too young for CIO. They are probably still hungry and it sounds like they are not ready to self-soothe. I am sorry that they are sick and it is making their sleep hard. Hang in there. FWIW, mine did not STTN until they were 9 months old. They were still taking full bottles at night.

 

Big hugs to you - we have all been where you are at and know how hard the sleep deprivation is! I ditto the pp that talked about a dreamfeed, try giving them a bottle before you go to bed at around 10pm (or whenever you go to bed), and with some luck they may skip their next feeding, or at the least that means you maybe only have to get up once at night with them.
Ours just had their first cold recently and it did affect their night time sleep for sure, but we did give tylenol and it seemed to help a bit, also a humidifier, and saline drops before bed helped too.
Things will get better, if I know anything for sure it is that things will change, whatever you are going thro right now they will change.

Can you and DH take the night in shifts to help?

 

QUOTE(jkk922 @ Oct 7 2008, 12:41 PM) [snapback]1015786[/snapback]
So really at this point, I'm at a loss as to what to do. If anyone has any advice or suggestions, please let me know. I keep hoping this is a phase, but it's been going on so long that I'm beginning to wonder.


I had the same feelings when my older DD was 6 months old. She simply would NOT let me put her down. It took 45 minutes to get her to sleep (in my arms), put her down in her crib, and then she'd wake after 20 minutes, realizing she was no longer in my arms. I was on NO sleep, and I had tried EVERYTHING! I searched and search for an answer, but was left with CIO (or the "Ferber Method"). So we tried it....

It took 4 nights, and DD began sleeping 12 hours a night! She's been a great night sleeper ever since. (She's now 5 years old.)

I say read the book, [post="http://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1_s9_rk?ie=UTF8&s=books&s9r=8a02b54114f36e05011571c6a3cc1049&itemPosition=1&qid=1223464352&sr=8-1"]Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems[/post]. It's written by Ferber, who's an expert on how the infant brain deals with sleep. He recommends waiting until a baby is at least 6 months old. He also explains how important sleep is to brain development - it'll help you understand why "CIO" isn't as cruel as it sounds. (That name is awful and makes every parent feel like a villain.)

When the time is right, help your babies learn to sleep. It's not just for your own sanity - it's for their healthy brain development!

 

QUOTE(Schmoopy @ Oct 8 2008, 07:18 AM) [snapback]1016977[/snapback]
I had the same feelings when my older DD was 6 months old. She simply would NOT let me put her down. It took 45 minutes to get her to sleep (in my arms), put her down in her crib, and then she'd wake after 20 minutes, realizing she was no longer in my arms. I was on NO sleep, and I had tried EVERYTHING! I searched and search for an answer, but was left with CIO (or the "Ferber Method"). So we tried it....

It took 4 nights, and DD began sleeping 12 hours a night! She's been a great night sleeper ever since. (She's now 5 years old.)

I say read the book, [post="http://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1_s9_rk?ie=UTF8&s=books&s9r=8a02b54114f36e05011571c6a3cc1049&itemPosition=1&qid=1223464352&sr=8-1"]Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems[/post]. It's written by Ferber, who's an expert on how the infant brain deals with sleep. He recommends waiting until a baby is at least 6 months old. He also explains how important sleep is to brain development - it'll help you understand why "CIO" isn't as cruel as it sounds. (That name is awful and makes every parent feel like a villain.)

When the time is right, help your babies learn to sleep. It's not just for your own sanity - it's for their healthy brain development!


I'm totally not being argumentative here :hug: But just because someone doesn't CIO, doesn't mean they aren't concerned with their child getting enough sleep. I can't think of how to write that sentence without all of the negatives in there, hope it's clear. My kids sleep very well most nights. We just never felt comfortable with CIO, so we tried to form good habits all along the way. Of course there have been bumps in the road--teething, illness--but I think there would be even for a CIOed child.

I'm not telling people "don't CIO" in this forum, I don't think that's appropriate, and you as the parent need to make the best decisions for your individual children. But I'm also really glad that people told me about other "gentle" methods for helping babies to sleep well. Some people say "you must CIO in order for your children to sleep well" and that just isn't true (for every baby in every situation) (I don't think you meant that!).

I'm totally not a controversial person, and I hope I'm not coming across that way. :hug:

 

QUOTE(joannabug @ Oct 8 2008, 09:25 AM) [snapback]1017256[/snapback]
I'm totally not being argumentative here :hug: But just because someone doesn't CIO, doesn't mean they aren't concerned with their child getting enough sleep. I can't think of how to write that sentence without all of the negatives in there, hope it's clear. My kids sleep very well most nights. We just never felt comfortable with CIO, so we tried to form good habits all along the way. Of course there have been bumps in the road--teething, illness--but I think there would be even for a CIOed child.

I'm not telling people "don't CIO" in this forum, I don't think that's appropriate, and you as the parent need to make the best decisions for your individual children. But I'm also really glad that people told me about other "gentle" methods for helping babies to sleep well. Some people say "you must CIO in order for your children to sleep well" and that just isn't true (for every baby in every situation) (I don't think you meant that!).

I'm totally not a controversial person, and I hope I'm not coming across that way. :hug:


joannabug, I'm not taking it that way. But I just had to respond....

I didn't mean to imply that people who don't CIO aren't concerned with their children's sleep. I meant that people who end up trying CIO are often made to feel guilty for it b/c it's so "harsh." But the aspect of a baby's brain development is one way to look at it - that although your baby may cry like s/he's suffering, you're actually helping your child in the long run. (The first of many trials we have as parents, right?)

And as for "gentle" methods, unfortunately they don't always work. Like I said in my prior post, we literally tried EVERYTHING!!! We were simply out of options. I read the "No Cry Sleep Solution." It had nice ideas, but it was written for parents who had babies without deep-rooted sleep associations (as my daughter had developed).

 

:hug: Thanks, Schmoopy, for taking my comment the way it was intended--totally not as criticism of what you did with your girl. I think that there are a lot of methods out there that people don't know about, and it's good to make an informed choice. That's all!

 

I used CIO for a couple weeks when they were 4 months... it's all it took. DD was the worst, and for two days would scream as soon as I put her down in her crib for a nap... It took four days of CIO at most naps (she still had one in the swing at the time) to stop... She had to CIO twice at bedtime too, but that's it. Now they only cry when they're overtired, and absolutely nothing calms them down anyway, so we don't have the choice but to let them CIO... but it happens once a month if that.

I see both sides to the debate really. Honestly, if you are patient enough to soothe them to sleep all the time, I think you deserve an award, lol. For mine I gave up after going back to the crib about ten times and having them scream again as soon as I left... Nothing worked. After two days I was going insane and did CIO.. I'm honestly not sure she even remembers... and she sleeps great now.