Seriously doubting this BFing thing working out - need some advice, commiseration, encouragement

My twins are nearly eight weeks old (born at 37wks). We have struggled with breastfeeding from the get go. I breastfed my first two (singletons) for ten months each - the first lost interest, the second was a bit of a struggle and we were both done by ten months. Given my experience with #2, I thought I could handle anything that was thrown at me and make it work.

Well, it's not working. Bottles pushed on both babies from literally hours after birth (ridiculous hospital policy), both babies have very weak sucks, both have struggled to gain weight, DS had jaundice, DD has terrible latch issues (I suspect clampdown bite reflex) and reflux, I have vasospasms and blebs, and with two other kids to deal with, I have no time to give each baby the individual attention they need to work on latches, etc. DS does nurse fine, he just doesn't get enough out (when I pump afterwards, I get a ton of milk).

I have plenty of milk and my body responds really well to the pump - I can pump over 4oz in ten minutes every 2-3 hours all day long and way more in the same time at night. Right now at feeding time, DD gets a bottle. DS nurses on both sides, then gets a top up bottle. Then I pump and clean everything up. In order for them to gain weight, I'm on strict orders to feed them every three hours during the day and no fewer than every six hours at night (yes, I am lucky enough to have two babies that sleep six hours at the same time at night). So by the time they finish eating and I finish pumping/cleaning up, it's nearly time to start again. Almost eight weeks of this, and I am wondering if it's worth it. I don't have confidence that DD will ever successfully latch; even though we've seen two IBCLCs, they haven't been able to help her. I haven't tried latching her in almost two weeks as the last attempt resulted in so much trauma to my nipples I could barely nurse DS.

I'm so discouraged at this point. I am really not happy about the prospect of full-time pumping, but it looks like that's the only way my babies will be able to gain weight and get my breast milk. The #1 concern I have with pumping is having access to my pump and a power source at regular intervals throughout the day. I hate the prospect that full-day family outings could be a thing of the past, at least until my pumping slows down. Even now, it's difficult juggling short outings and school pickup/drop off with my need to get home and pump.

I know other moms have done it, so please - share your BTDT stories and any tips you may have. I really need to see that this can work, because right now in my mind, I can't figure out how.

 

I am so sorry to hear of your dilemma and furious with your hospital, which hospital is it that has that policy? Totally outrageous!

I haven't got much time to write now and plus I know there are plenty of mums on here who are EBFing who will be able to give you some great advice.

I just wanted to add that the Medela Pump In Style Advanced Backpack has an additional battery pack. I had this pump and I loved it. I used it with the battery quite a few times with no issues. It took AA batteries if I remember correctly so this could be an option.

:hug:

 

I just wanted to applaud your efforts so far...really amazing what you are doing! My twins were really little at birth and we never really got breastfeeding together - so I pumped for 5 months but I never produced enough milk so they were always supplemented with formula. Pumping isn't as rewarding but it is a bit more time efficient (at least at first). Good luck!

 

It does take double As and I have a friend who used hers to pump at work and she said the battery pack worked great - didn't run out of juice too fast or anything.

 

It was Jessie McPherson private in Clayton. My neighbor had warned me beforehand that they were not good breastfeeding advocates, but I had no idea how bad it would be. I just could not believe that they were giving my healthy, full-term babies formula fewer than three hours after they were born (and every three hours after). Unfortunately, recovering from an emergency c-section, I was so messed up I was in no position to argue and really didn't for a couple days. By then, the damage was done.

I'm currently hiring a Medela Symphony, which has no portable capabilities. They have the PIS here in Oz? It isn't an option to rent anywhere, which is why I've got the Symphony. I did have a PIS back in the US and I really liked it.

 

I bought mine secondhand on ebay (and sold it there for the same price 6months later) and just bought all new tubing, shields etc from a US based supplier as it was cheaper. I've never seen it in the shops but there are plenty online here.

PS : I bottlefed Liara and nursed Sierra for 6months as Liara was a poor latcher and weak nurser. Looking back I wish I had persevered with breastfeeding Liara or even trying to EBF longer. You really are doing amazing to have got this far.

 

I just came on to do a quick scan of what was going on here, not to comment but I have to comment on this.

THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!

About your hospital I mean. #headdesk!!! Things like this make me so mad!!!!!

Did you have them checked for tongue ties, especially with your daughter? Maybe consider doing a nursing marathon- put someone on duty with your other kids for a couple of days and stay in bed with the twins, exclusively nurse them, and just work with them till they get the hang of it. (Stagger their eating schedules by an hour or so for those days so that you don't have one screaming baby while you are trying to work on the other's latch). Those are the only two things I can think of, except trying to find another LC who you really click with and is willing to really work with you.

 

I would like to second the idea of a nursing marathon, if you can find someone to take care of your other children for at least a day or two. Snuggle up in bed with the babies, have plenty of snacks and water available for you and let go of all responsibilities except for breastfeeding. If you have enough milk and do not give the babies any other option (no bottles of EBM), I would hope you can work something out and get your DD to latch better. You will probably be feeding them in less than 3 hour intervals though, especially while you all are working to figure this out.

I personally did not like them, but might a nipple shield help with the pain she is causing to you?

Have you tried warm compresses on the breast or massaging the breast while DS feeds, to encourage a better flow of milk?

GL, and good for you to keep on trying despite the difficult start!

 

My twins are 6 weeks old and I'm really wanting to exclusively breast feed but I'm really struggling! My twins were born at 37 weeks at 5.6 and 4.2 but they both dropped quite a bit. My DS got down to 4.11 and my DD was 3.14. Both spent a couple days in the NICU. It took awhile for my milk to come in so both were fed formula at first because they were so little. My DS is nursing pretty well but not getting enough so I have to supplement with EBM. My DD tries to nurse but is pretty much exclusively fed with EBM. So I spend lots of time pumping! Im getting really discouraged and depressed about the situation. How do I try to make the transition to exclusively breast feeding for both? When will they be strong enough? One problem is that my nipples are a bit large and that even causes more problems cause they can't get a deep enough latch. I just feel like I'm not making very much progress. What is the nursing marathon you guys are talking about? After a day or 2 will they both be nursing?
I set a goal for myself. I gave my self until they were 3 months old for both to be nursing. If they aren't I think I will throw in the towel! I just want to enjoy my babies and not be so stressed out all the time!

 

Aw, pumping is so hard and pumping + nursing is just so time consuming. :hug: A nursing marathon is where you stop doing bottles and basically sit and nurse. If they seem hungry, put them on. It's only been 20 minutes? That's ok. You just basically nurse as much as they want round the clock. After about 2 days your body will have beefed up supply (essentially you tell your body to make more milk every time you latch a baby on). Drink a boatload of water, load up on snacks and have someone else do everything else in the house. You sit and feed.

 

So no pumping during the nursing marathon?

 

Also another question. How long after I pump can I feed the babies? How long does it take my milk to replenish? I think sometimes that might be the problem because at night when I go longer in between pumping and feeding my son eats lots better and wants no bottle.

 

Pumping doesn't do as good of a job at emptying your breast as nursing does. Each time a baby nurses they can get 3xs what your pump can get out. So with a marathon, the goal is to get the baby to the breast as much as s/he needs. It's just the continual nursing that tells your body to make more milk.

You are never completely dry after you pump. That being said, I didn't usually pump then feed right away. I think I waited about an hour.

As your daughter is taking pumped milk right now I might divide in conquer- do a nursing marathon with your son (while continuing to pump the other side for your daughter) and get him nursing exclusively. Once you get that down pat you can work with her on a good latch and do a marathon with her. If she is a bit lazy you can latch him on first (when he is nursing well routinely) then after the letdown latch her on. If she doesn't have to work so hard in the beginning she may do better.

:welcome: to TS, by the way.

 

During the marathon how long should they nurse at a time? I know they are supposed to until they get full but what if they never pull off? My son would nurse for an hour and he was only getting an ounce. I'm really wanting to do the marathon cause I've heard so many good things but I'm really nervous about it. What if they don't get enough? Do you continue marathon all through the night?

 

Nichtwins: When I did clusterfeeding (non-stop feeding for hours) when my twins were newborns, I would let them feed as long as they wanted to a point, but I would take 10 minute breaks every 30 minutes or so because this helped me physically get to a point where I could get another let down. I found that if I didn't take breaks and just let them hang out there, they would stop pulling for a letdown after a while. A good time to pop them off if when they aren't actively sucking anymore. Evne if they get pissed, I found letting them wait a little bit gave my body a break, got them to a point where they would work for a let down again and then they were much more satisfied when they were back on and feeding after a break. I hope that makes sense.

My babies were never full for about the first 10 weeks of life. When I tell people they were nursing all day long while I was on maternity leave I really did mean that they spent more time on my boobs than they did off most days.

I rarely pumped in the early days except very early on when we had some latching issues because the babies nursed so frequently I couldn't even get anything out of the pump (I need to go about 2 hours if I'm going to be able to pump anything). Plus, I'm too lazy to pump if I have babies who are willing to suck.

 

Thanks j-squared! I'm going to give it a try!!

 

J-squared how long did it take for them to finally get good at it? 10 weeks???

 

Nichtwins - I'm glad you've come in here asking questions. You're bringing up stuff I'm still wondering about, too, and my babies are now 12 weeks old. I have some encouraging news for you: after never successfully BFing DD for an extended amount of time (we would try one day and then it hurt so bad I wouldn't attempt again for weeks at a time), it seems that finally she has got it. She has nursed very well at three feeds now, and is only getting better. Her latch still leaves something to be desired, but it's not causing me nearly the pain it was and her mouth has relaxed a ton.

I, too, gave myself a goal of three months. I'm there. And now I'm making six months a goal. I would love to try the nursing marathon idea, but it just isn't possible for us. We have nobody who can take my older boys and even on the weekends when DH is home there's just too much going on. So I continue to nurse and pump. In addition to my six-month goal, I also have a goal of going one full day without pumping. I have plenty of milk still, so it's just a matter of figuring out how to wean off the pump and have the babies do all the work.

Anyhow, just wanted to drop in and give you my update and hopefully some encouragement. It is so, so hard. I feel like Superwoman for having gotten this far, but at the same time, I am weary of the struggle it's been. But having DD latch and nurse after so many weeks of failure - it was beautiful. I am so happy I've persevered.

 

Nerd girl: sounds like we're in the same situation! I admire you for wanting to continue!! I can't imagine having other kids with this routine! How do you manage to go anywhere? After you feed your DS do you still supplement him or is he just exclusively BF now? The last few feedings I haven't given him any in the bottle and he seems to be handling it okay. I'm still worried he's not getting enough but I wil see how it goes the next few times. Also have you heard that if you're going to supplement, you should do it before you nurse so that they always get full at the breast?? I haven't ever done this cause I'm always just hopeful that he will get full and pop off so I don't have to supplement. Any thoughts on this?
It seems in the night that he actually gets full because he does pop off and then he will sleep 4-5 hours so i think he is getting better.
As far as my DD I feel I don't practice with her enough for her to get better. But when I do it throws my routine off and I just get more frustrated. Right now even though the routine is exhausting it seems to be working. So the question remains, how do I start working with her and continue my pumping too? I feel I still need to pump cause I'm not confident she can get enough right now and when she's hungry she's pissed!
So next problem with her practicing. The other day I tandem nursed them 3 consecutive feedings cause I wanted to practice with her. They seem to latch pretty well in the football hold and nurse for 35 minutes or so then I would top them off. Then I would pump again. The problem that I always have is that if someone gets hungry before an hour has passed after pumping, what do I do? I feel my milk supply isnt up enough to feed them yet.
Also, after you feed your DS how many ounces do you get when you pump? Do you pump immediately after you feed or wait awhile then pump?

 

Yeah, it's tough going anywhere for long. I take my pump to church, and those three hours are really the longest I ever go anywhere. I hate being stuck at home, so that's more of an incentive to get off the pump than even the cost to hire the thing is. I sometimes supplement DS after a feed with expressed milk, but only if I don't feel like I was full enough to give him a full feed. I really second guess myself constantly because of his difficulty gaining weight; I didn't supplement him at all today and while he spit up a ton and nursed well, I still worry that he didn't get enough to eat. When I do supplement him, it's always after a feed. Always.

Now with DD, I'm doing things differently. I usually feed them at the same time (so when one wakes up I wake up the other one), but yesterday, she woke up first from a nap and I had time, so I let DS keep sleeping and decided to give nursing a try. I gave her about half her bottle first and then I nursed. Well, I forced my boob into her mouth while she screamed for a good five minutes (she kept clamping down and biting her tongue because she couldn't figure out how to coordinate it all) and then suddenly, she was on and nursing. I did the same thing for a later feed. Today I put her on without giving her the bottle first and again, she fought and struggled for five minutes or so and then nursed for 30 minutes. I gave her nothing afterward and she was content.

As for the pumping, that's a bit tricky to time. Generally, if it's under an hour and a half since I last pumped, then I will BF and then top off with a bottle. I try to pump immediately after feeding, but really, by the time they're finished eating and we've changed nappies and I've grabbed a bite to eat or whatnot, it's time to put them down for sleep. So by the time all that's done, it's been an hour and a half since the feeding started. If I won't be able to give them a long nap I won't pump. Those are the times I know I don't need to top off DS because I'll be good and full by the time that next feeding rolls around. If I think they'll be asleep for another couple hours, I'll pump. It also depends on which school DS2 is at that day (different pickup times) as I can let the babies sleep longer on certain days. It is so complicated and truly exhausting to consider all the factors day in and day out. This is one huge reason I either wanted to go all in on the pump and do no BFing whatsoever or pump only when absolutely necessary and almost exclusively BF - doing both is just so time consuming and, like I said, complicated. I did not pump at all today after feedings where both babies nursed, and it was fabulous. They both seemed to be full and I still had enough pumped milk to give them bottles tonight. I did one feeding today with no bottle and no pumping. Baby steps.

 

Another question about the nursing marathon: when I'm nursing each one separately, do I just let them eat from one breast? Currently since I'm only nursing my DS he eats from both to get full. Just wondering how this would work.

 

Eventually many of us feed our babies tandem (both at the same time) and alternate who gets what breast. But yes, the baby gets 1 breast to be full. The marathon would signal your body to produce a ton more milk in each breast.

 

Nichtwins, they were good nursers early on. DS was born a champion nurser and DD got it down by about two weeks and I am grateful for that because my first son was horrific for the first 8 weeks, but my supply took forever to build so I literally was nursing them all the time to keep them satisfied--I primarily tandem nursed because I hated listening to the screaming of the one who was waiting. I do have a supply issue so unless I'm able to nurse the babies very frequently during the day (i.e., going longer than about 1.5 hours is unheard of for me, even when I only had one baby), they are hungry. Basically, they get enough to eat to grow and be happy if I nurse them all the time. I do supplement with formula much more now that I'm back at work (we tried to rarely supplement while I was on mat leave so I could establish my supply) because my supply took a hit since pumping just isn't the same as nursing them frequently during the day.

You know, some people have great supplies and can go 2-3 hours between feeds and some of us have adequate supplies (I consider mine adequate since I can successfully feed babies if I feed them frequently) and some have low supply. It's hard to know where one falls but I know for me, I just seem to have to feed my babies frequently to keep them happy and to keep my supply going.

Nerdgirl: I'm so glad to hear nursing is going better for your DD. I really hope she catches on and that you can ditch the pump (also, you would not be the first person I know who finally got a stubborn baby latching at 12 weeks or older--I know two people who both couldn't get their babies onto the breast until they were about 12 weeks old and they were eventually able to ditch the pump).

 

Well after 6 long weeks of tears, torn up nipples, and lots of doubt, I can look back now and say it was definately worth it! My twins are nursing! No more bottles. Did the nursing marathon 1 day with no pumping and they haven't looked back!! Tandem nursing at that! Only pumping to build a supply in the freezer!! Soooo much easier!!! Life is good! I was at the point of quitting when it finally worked!!!

 

I'm so freaking happy for you! You persevered and now are nursing exclusively! Doesn't it feel fabulous to pump when you want to, not when you *have* to?! Congratulations!

 

Yes it does feel awesome!! And plus I get way more when I'm pumping cause I'm not stressed out about it!! It's fun to stock up extra milk in the freezer!! So thankful I stuck with it!!

 

Nichtwins: That is WONDERFUL! Six weeks seems to be such a magical turnaround time for most babies whoa re having nursing problems. I had major problems with my first and spent the first 6 weeks in tears, but things started to turn around at that point and by 8 weeks I was off the pump completely and nursing very comfortably. And if you're able to pump to build a freezer supply then I will say there is nothing wrong with your supply! Way to go! I'm so glad the hard work paid off.

ETA: Haha, I noticed above that I called my supply adequate, yet I've actually had to take domperidone since returning to work to keep my supply up--it's adequate if I'm home with my babies and can nurse them frequently. Pumping does not have the same effect for me.

 

YOU ROCK WOMAN!!!! :woman: :woman: :woman: