questions about vaccine exemptions and daycare

Okay, My twins are 16 months and will be starting daycare next school year when I go back to work as a teacher. I have been looking up what shots are legally required by my state. and I am panicking and feeling sick at the thought of having to give my babies the mmr vaccine. Anyway I know there is a way to get a religious waver for vaccines to use for school is there such a thing for daycares? Does anyone know if you can get the waiver and put them in daycare??

 

Since daycare isn't required by law to attend like school is, most daycares are private and will not accept any waiver. I am sure some won't mind, but you will have to research and ask around a lot. I will not give the MMR vaccine until the girls are at least 5 so I when I go back to work in August, I have found someone who runs an in-home daycare to accept my babies. She doesn't require about vaccines and has only other child in her home. Maybe try that if you run out of daycare options. Good luck!

 

Maybe it depends on the state, but to keep a certain number of children in KY you must be licensed by the state or they will fine you and shut you down. In order to be licensed every child must have up-to-date immuzination records. The reason I know this is because part of my SIL's job is to physically check every immuzination record of every state licensed daycare in our hometown. If you find a private childcare provider, it probably won't be a problem, but I would think most state run daycares require immuzination records. If I were you I would talk to your local health department to find out the regs..they should know.

 

any chance that your pediatrition woudl write a medical waiver based on prematurity (if thats your issue)

 

In Florida, if a place is licensed, UTD immunizations are required. I had DS in a daycare and I refused the varicella vaccine for as long as I could. It was the only one that I refused. His daycare was fine with it for quite a while until they got audited. I was then forced to immunize him. I had asked his ped about a waiver but he couldn't issue one for just one vaccine--it had to be all of them, and it had to be for religious or medical reasons (which neither applied anyway).

 

As a pp noted, I'm sure it varies from state to state, and it will depend on if the daycare you are going to is private or state licensed. If it is private they may not even require you to prove any immunizations, but any state licensed and certified program will require proof and usually have you fill out a form.
Before I had kids I was a preschool director, and one of the most tedious parts of my job was auditing all of our records annually to make sure everyone was up-to-date. On the form that everyone has to fill out there is a place to sign if you have "religious" exemption to one or more shots. I might add that it does not have to be a specific religious reason, but it can just be a moral exemption.
I agree that you can check with your county/state health department for any rules & regulations.

 

I have found it to be very easy to get an exemption, just had a form notarized and that was the end of it, no questions. We selectively vax, maybe if we weren't getting any it would be more of an issue. I would just ask them what form they need.
heather

 

I think you should call the daycare and ask about the forms you need to fill out. The licensing form that we have to fill out has an area for an exemption that you have your doctor fill out.

 

I hope this helps..

You’re in Alabama? I’m in CA, and licensing is probably different in each state. Here is a web link I found regarding Alabama’s licensing and some information that might help.



http://www.dhr.state.al.us/page.asp?pageid=648



this link for centers:

http://www.dhr.state.al.us/large_docs/CENTERS-revised.pdf

see pg. 57:



“On the child's first day of attendance, each child from two (2) months

of age to lawful school age and each child of lawful school age who

is not enrolled in public or private school kindergarten shall have a

valid State of Alabama Certificate of Immunization (ADPH-F-IMM-

50), on file in the center, unless one of the following is on file in the

center:

A valid State of Alabama Certificate of Medical Exemption

(ADPH-F-IMM-50);

OR

A valid Alabama Certificate of Religious Exemption

(ADPH-F-IMM-52).”





This link for day care homes:

http://www.dhr.state.al.us/large_docs/DayCareHomes.pdf

pg 38

“ Immunizations

Each child two (2) months up to five (5) years of age and five (5) year olds who are

not enrolled in public or private school kindergarten shall have a valid State of

Alabama Certificate of Immunization (ADPH-F-IMM-50) on file in the home on the

child's first day of attendance and the Certificate shall be kept current thereafter

unless one of the following certificates is on file in the home:

(1) A valid Alabama Certificate of Medical Exemption (ADPH-F-IMM-50).

OR:

(2) A valid Alabama Certificate of Religious Exemption (ADPH-F-IMM-52).”







So it seems to me you can try unlicensed daycares, or try contacting your state information re: licensing and find out what you need to do to get Medical OR Religious exemption. IMO I think trying to claim "Religious Exemption" might be easier.




I don’t know, but this might be the contact link.

http://www.dhr.state.al.us/contacts.asp?div=Child%20Care%20Licensing



I hope some of what I found is useful.

 

So, if this is correct, I THINK you can get medical and/or religious waivers in your state for daycare. If you manage to get the waiver, of course you'd have to check with each individual provider on their policies (which may or may not be stricter than the state's).

 

I am curious why it is the MMR you are freaking out about. Have you seen the oodles of articles lately discussing the fact that all the hoopla over that vaccine was false. The Lancet even retracted the Wakefield study because it has been proven that he doctored evidence. I'm not going to get into the whole vaccine debate but you also have to think about what your children may be exposed to at daycare. The diseases we vaccinate against are diseases that kill children and in this day and age with everyone trying to find a loophole around the exemption rules, you can't rely on herd immunity to keep your child safe. If people only put as much energy into understanding immunity and communicable diseases as they do into trying to figure out how to get around the system...

I also have to add that I respect anyone who TRULY has a religious objection, but to claim religion just to get away with something that you otherwise couldn't get away with I feel is blasphemous and almost criminal.

 

I think she just wanted answers if anyone had any, not a debate. So, not to start it rolling, but I feel like I should address this as I agree with you in theory but agree with her that she should be able to make the choice for her kids. I'm not her, but for her and her kids it could be something as simple as mama's gut intuition, which IMO is good enough for me if someone has done their research. I agree with you that those who don't vaccinate risk the pool for everyone else, but don't you think it's kindof sad that in today's society if, as parents, we really don't want to do something for our kid we have to prove medical or religious exhemption? IMO this, in itself, is infringing our our personal freedoms. As a parent, though I believe most kids should be vaccinated, I would be horrified if someone FORCED me to do something that, in my gut, for rational reasons or even just a gut feeling, I felt was wrong for my child. And, as a parent, if I feel very strongly about something for my child (for whatever reason) I will do anything in my power to do what I feel is right for my child.

In general, I tend to agree with you that it is better for kids to get vaccinated, especially for diseases that can cause serious morbidity and mortality . For me personally, at the back of my mind I have some concern that the vaccines are 'live' and not dead viruses, as some side effects and other things, like regressive autism can be TRIGGERED (not caused) by environmental causes viruses though it has been disproven for certain vaccines (no why not weakend ones?) I know that the MMR vaccine has been disproven (Wakefield's research as well as court ruled about this) but I'm not 100% convinced that there might not be some correlation in combination with other factors... for instance, there was a study done regarding parents who used tylenol vs. motrin or nothing after the shot, and there was a correlation in that small study...

We personally have gotten all of our shots for our kids except not the chickenpox vaccine which IS required, and for some inexplainable reason I am terrified of, and feel very strongly I don't want my kids to have that one. For me, my fear could be perhaps because:

1) MMR has been proven to not be a cause or trigger for autism, but there HAVE been NO studies for the chicken pox vaccine. The chicken pox vaccine had been really started in 1995 and implemented as necessary in the early 2000s. Autism rates started rising, then skyrocketing then. I am not confident that there is no correlation between implementation of chicken pox vaccines and regressive autism, until studies have been done disproving any correlation.

2) Chickenpox rarely causes serious injuries or fatalities in little kids. There has also been research that shows those who vaccinate may be susceptable to the virus as early as after 8 years after the vaccine! If the vaccine does not provide lifetime protection as obtaining the virus does, I would rather my kids not get the vaccine until they get to a certain age, IF they don't get chickenpox. I'd rather have them have lifetime immunity than risk getting it as a teenager, adult, or older adult when it could be very serious.
If it were just up to me, I'd say no to the chickenpox vaccine and give it to them at about 8-10 IF they hadn't caught chicken pox. But since it is required we will have to get it for them soon. I hope so strongly (and also believe on an intillectual level based on what their Doctor said and family members) that my gut feeling on this is wrong.

 

Thank you soooo much!

 

Well honestly I am NOT interested in debating that is why I put that in my title. However, I must say that I don't think my kids are at risk for
Measles , mumps, rubella, and polio at an Alabama daycare! and I do not think Chicken pox is worthy of a vaccine and I have never had the flu or pnemonia and have never been vaccinated for either. I intend to vaccinate them later, but I just do not think it is smart to vaccinate my VERY healthy children for things that there is one in a million chance they will get. If there is ANY chance that a vaccine may be linked to Autism that seems like enough reason for me to put them off as long as I can.

 

Thanks I could NOT have said it better myself!

 

Sorry i can not help in that field, but seems like you got lots of good answers, all i have to say in the matter is that I have not Vax my boys on either the CP or the MMR shot to date, they will get those shots right before school, the MMR shot will be given when it is in separate doses, think Dr. Sears mentioned 2011, will have to double check that again, but as the mother of my children, I do what I feel is best for them, i really dont give (you know) what other people think or say about vacinating, I do believe in vacinating, but not follow the doctors schedule, my boys are up to date on the vax except for 3 things...which they will get later on....PLUS they are NOT in any daycare or around other children right now, so we are good to go...GOOD LUCK...

 

I wasn't trying to start a debate and if you choose not to vaccinate that is your choice, but I stand by the comment that lying about a religious reason is fraudulent. I have never told an Amish or Orthodox Jewish parent that they should change their beliefs about vaccination because I respect religious beliefs, but stating that a vaccine makes you nervous so you are going to claim religious exemption... What else is it ok to lie about?

That being said, there is a mumps outbreak in New York right now and in Ohio we had a case of measles last month, so unless you live in a bubble where no one travels out of your town and no one talks to anyone, you can see those things in Alabama. We have also had children here recently who have been devastated by Hib meningitis and hospitalized for whooping cough. It doesn't matter if your child is healthy or not, if they are exposed to it they can get it. You mentioned you are a teacher so I know you are educated...just make sure you know the risks before you spend so much time and effort looking for loopholes.

Also, a good site if you want more information about the research being done to understand autism, check out www.autismsciencefoundation.org

 

:thanks:I was trying to find a polite way to say this.

 

So first, can you really claim she is lying about it if she claims a 'religious' exhemption because she feels strongly about that? Should that be reserved only for certain defined faiths with large followings (like Christian Scientists?)

How is it not a religious belief? She feels very strongly about it, and religion is not defined to certain followings I know several people who have their 'own' religion, and ... c'mon we have the church of Bobb Dobbs and the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster that are defined as churches but most people in it think it is a joke... (I know someone who got MARRIED from a 'minister' under the 1st "religion") It may not be her main religion, but it is still a conviction that she feels very strongly about... and there are certainly a lot of people out there who feel the way she do.... so how can you claim the belief is definitely NOT a religious belif?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
1 "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."
4 " something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice. "


Also, I'm not an attorney, and in effect even if it is 'lying' by your definition of religion, I'm not sure it is Fraud. There is someone who has to be injured and have suffered damages from this. I know each state is different, but unless someone got sick and really hurt or worse from her kids, she doesn't have the nine elements of fraud. I'm not so sure on the "materiality" element, either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

That site you mentioned looks like it has some useful information, and links to many recent studies. I think it is a good start. But it certainly leaves out a lot. I think it would be great if a site like that had a more extensive link set of studies under categories, perhaps to articles published on pumed, etc.
On a personal side note, I would like to find out more recent information on any link to tylenol. Unfortuantely as a layperson I can't read any of the responses to these.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18445737?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=5

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748189?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=3

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20030462?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1

 

So I can tell you are determined to be against anything I say, so lets just agree to disagree. You are right, if you bend the words enough you can make anything SOUND like religion. As a practicing Catholic, I guess I have a more traditional view of what religion is and if you are "panicked" about a decision then it doesn't speak to me as a strong belief that a higher being wants you to act in a certain way.

As for the links you quoted, any article ever published will be listed on PubMed but that doesn't mean it is from a reputable journal or a well done study. There are entire courses in medical school about how to read and interpret medical literature and decipher what is valid and what is, for lack of a better term, crap. If you look at the journals those articles are in they are "Alternative Medicine Review", "Autism", and "Medical Hypothesis". The first two are obviously biased as to the type of articles they publish just by nature of their title and the third will publish any well crafted hypothesis, which means that the ideas in the articles have yet to be tested in a study or trial. If you are looking for unbiased, well crafted studies, check out papers published in "Pediatrics", "JAMA", "Journal of Infectious Diseases", "Journal of Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrics", etc. Trustworthy websites would be those from AAP, AMA, Autism Society of America, National Alliance for Autism Research, to name a few.

 

I'll agree to disagree, but just so you know, I'm not determined to be against anything you say, not at all. I just tried to point out aspects that maybe weren't thought of as IMO your response to the main poster was a bit harsh. I respect your viewpoint as a practicing catholic. But really, I really do know people who follow their ‘own religion’ and believe it wholeheartedly, and have done some reading on elements of torts, etc… And perhaps an enlightenment to my point of view is \FYI I am really against government controlling our lives to the point that they are. I am actually very pro-vaccination for my own kids (with the exception of one concern I have, which might be founded, it turns out it probably has an ingredient they have a high probability of being allergic to)



I just posted the links because I thought they were interesting and was wondering if any other research was done on the subject, not at all because I think they prove anything (I think looking at Tylenol is an interesting theory). And I don’t think one well-crafted study necessarily means anything, either. I agree with you on the fact that medical hypothesis are just that- hypothesis. Thank you for the journal references. FYI, I’m not arguing the science behind any of it. Just that I don’t think the science is necessarily a definitive, and defending a parent’s right to chose what they think is best for his or her child.

 

I do not wish to lie but since that is my only option to do what I think is best for my children that is what I will do.
Very well educated on this and other matters. Thank you.

 

Hmmm....

I might not make any new friends over this, but every time I watch one of these debates my frustration grows.

The question originally started off rather innocent (IMO). 'What are the laws?' Then rapidly grew into a heated debated. Soon we were arguing 'ethical vs religion' and 'Im right vs. your wrong'. I know this is a HOT subject with high emotions, but it's gotten to the point were we can't even have an open discussion. The moment the word vaccine comes up people start throwing punches.

I have questions, but Im sure as hell not going to ask them! The judgement runs way to high.

I wonder how many parents make decisions based off of fear instead of fact because they felt there was no safe place to ask?

 

I feel like I should clarify (although why I feel like I should have to justify my own decisions about my own children to anyone is crazy). However I will say thanks for all the great info!!! I am going tomorrow to get the exemption. Especially thanks to the person that gave me those great links. Anyway, I am not against vac. per se, but I would very much like to wait until my babies are older and there immune systems are more mature. I will be going back to work so I had to get this figured out. My personal fear comes from several places. One I have read many things on the topic and as I said one mother's testimonial does carry a lot of weight with me. Secondly my child did not talk until he was 2.5!!! He is fine now at five but I spent several years scared to DEATH that he may be "borderline" autistic. Thirdly I do know someone personally that was injured by vaccines. This is now a 40 year old woman, but she was a totally healthy child and then was vaccinated and is now well in a wheel chair and totally a vegitable.

I love our government and am very greatful to live in a country where vaccines are available, BUT I do believe in personal freedom and hate that I should even have to find a way to get an exemption.

Again thanks for the info.

 

I couldn't agree more. We are doing some vaccines (although very spread out) and passing on others. Our pedi is great about our declining or delaying certain vaccines. I think it's ridiculous that you have to have a religious reason in your state. It is a parent's RIGHT to choose if/when to vaccine their child. Fortunately, it is very easy to get an exemption in California for personal reasons.

 

And it should also be a individual business' choice (daycare) to not accept a non vaccinated child in order to protect the others that are there and a) may not be able to receive a vaccination due to allergy or b) aren't old enough to have had all their shots or c) be part of the population that does not respond completely to the vaccine and is still susceptible. .

 

It is a hot topic because it has to do with our children's health and well being rather you are for or against. It might seem like a personal choice or decision but it does effect the entire community (herd immunity)so people tend to be opinionated on the subject. I know I am.

I think it is fine for parents to choose not to vaccinate (or not to vaccinate on schedule) their children however I think if you choose not to vaccinate your child you should do the responsible thing and keep your child at home (or keep them home until they are up to date on vaccines). I say "choose" meaning they do not have a medical reason to not get vaccinated. Why endanger other peoples children who are vaccinated on schedule or those children who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons? That is irresponsible and not very considerate. Vaccines are not 100% so we rely on "herd" immunity. When you don't vaccinate you are weakening the herd immunity and endangering other children. It is very naive to think that these diseases are not out there or that they do not kill. In recent years/months there have been mump/measle/whooping cough outbreaks in the US. Measles kills 250,000 chidren worldwide each year. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/02/health/02measles.html?_r=1

I'm sure you will lie and get your exemption. But plesae think about it when you send your kids off to daycare with everyone elses kids. Yes this is about YOUR kids not everyone elses but those "everyone elses kids" include mine.

I have to be considerate of your choices even if I do not agree so why should you not be considerate of mine?

I know you didn't want a debate but unfortunately it is a hot topic... so posting kinda opens it up.

 

Seriously some of you are just rather rude and your statements are not logical. So what else should I do to MY children for the sake of yours??? Should I only use a certain kind of detergent because your kid may have an allergy to mine?

Sounds to me like you need to keep YOUR kid home because you are the one worried that they may catch a life threatening disease at daycare! Please vaccinate your children for everything that they make one for but do NOT insult me because I do not agree with you!! Keep your kid home in a bubble and that way you can be SURE they will not catch polio, mumps, measles or whatever else you are concerned about.

Anyway, this will be my last post on the subject. I will do what I believe is the safest thing for my children and you do the same.

 

This topic has been closed with the permission of the original poster.