Questions about self soothing and graduated extinction

Our biggest challenge right now is soothing the babies to sleep for naps during the day. When they were only 6 pounds, I could carry both around until they were asleep and then put them down. Now they are 11 pounds; I have been carrying one in a Moby and the other on my shoulder until the shoulder baby is asleep. This arrangement is not sustainable as they get bigger. Sometimes I can put them down drowsy but awake and they will fall asleep (with a pacifier or in the swing), but I usually can't make this work with both babies (one needs to be fast asleep so I can soothe the drowsy one if necessary).

Also.......

The babies take naps in the swing, bouncer, moby, and sometimes crib. At night, they sleep in their car seats. They have been sleeping really well in the car seats; although we don't want to change the routine, it is time to take the plunge: we are going to transition next week to having them sleep in their cribs at night.

The babies are 11 1/2 weeks old. We have been reading Weissbluth's healthy sleep habits book and it seems as if 3 to 4 months is the time when they start to self sooth. We are also starting to think about trying graduated extinction next week. Here are some questions I have (they are all more or less related):

- In your opinion, is three months too early to let them cry for timed intervals in order to extinguish their crying?
- Any words of encouragement or advice for using graduated extinction?
- Any thoughts for or against graduated extinction?
- What soothing techniques did you use with your three month babies to help them fall asleep for naps?
- When they are in their car seats, we rock the seats and sometimes swing them. This obviously will not work in the crib. How do you soothe your babies when they are in their cribs?

This post is a little bit rambling.... basically we are just looking to hear how people sooth and promote self soothing so we can start some new routines next week. Thanks!

 

- In your opinion, is three months too early to let them cry for timed intervals in order to extinguish their crying?

Not at all.

- Any words of encouragement or advice for using graduated extinction?

I don't have a ton because I've never been good at doing the sleep training thing. I guess the biggest thing is to remember that a little bit of crying will not hurt them. Also, for me, I would let them fuss but would respond if they were really crying for longer than a couple of minutes or if the crying escalated suddenly (before the few minutes was up). My girls sometimes just need to fuss a bit to decompress from everything. Honestly, I feel the same way sometimes.

To help me get sleep, I had a whole system for nights of when I would respond and how. It sounds complicated but it's not too bad. I can provide details for the nights if you like.

- Any thoughts for or against graduated extinction?

See above.

- What soothing techniques did you use with your three month babies to help them fall asleep for naps?

Patting their backs, bouncing

- When they are in their car seats, we rock the seats and sometimes swing them. This obviously will not work in the crib. How do you soothe your babies when they are in their cribs?

Patting their backs, shsh-ing (you would be amazed at how well this works for some babies!), singing softly

One thing that helped us (and this may not work for you), we had the girls staggered for eating and sleeping. So I would feed one and then put her down in her crib. Then go feed the other one, letting the first fuss until she was asleep or I had finished feeding the second. That way I was only trying to put down one baby at a time (and reduced the times that they were keeping each other up). But if you are trying to keep them on the same schedule, that won't work.

 

We are trying to get ours to self soothe, so I'm interested in the responses.

 

I followed the Weissbluth method and I found it worked for us and I started around the 12-14 week stage. My understanding is that you need to be committed and consistent to work with any sleep training method. Keep yourself busy and use a timer, because even one minute will feel like 5 when they are crying.

My answers to your questions:

- In your opinion, is three months too early to let them cry for timed intervals in order to extinguish their crying?

Yes and no, it really depends on the baby.. what is their corrected age? Weissbluth recommends using the adjusted age.
- Any words of encouragement or advice for using graduated extinction?

As above, keep busy and use a timer.
- Any thoughts for or against graduated extinction?
My feeling is that you need to be a certain personality to be able to do any type of extinction. You need to be consistent. And committed, otherwise it's a big FAIL.
- What soothing techniques did you use with your three month babies to help them fall asleep for naps?

I watched for tired signs (I kept their awake time to a maximun of 1-1.25hours including feed/change), I gave them a cuddle (I fed them on my bed), put them drowsy but awake in their crib, turned on their Fisher Price projector/music thingy and left the room. My babies have never really liked the whole rocking in arms thing (luckily or not?).

- When they are in their car seats, we rock the seats and sometimes swing them. This obviously will not work in the crib. How do you soothe your babies when they are in their cribs?

I used sshh and patting without picking up, every 5 minutes, leaving it longer each time. Initally I had them in separate single strollers so that I could put them in different rooms downstairs and once I had worked on their sleep cycle awakening, I moved them into the cribs.

I'm sorry this is a little vague - I can hardly remember that time and it was only last year lol! Good luck and please feel free to PM me if you have any questions, I don't frequent this board as much as I used to.

--Tas

 

sorry i didn't respond sooner. somehow i missed your post. :huh:

I ditto everything Tas said. i followed Weissbluths methods and also, got a LOT of GOOD advice from Tas... :thanks:

One of my kids would be a really bad sleeper without the insight i got from Weissbluth. As it is, they are both really good sleepers (i am knocking on everything at the moment b/c we all know sleep can change in an instant.. and i probably just jinxed myself... lol). what i am trying to say is his methods do work, but you sometimes have to go against your gut and trust him.

Putting down sleepy but awake is really important! Gradually reduce how sleepy they are before putting them down. take your time, you don't have to accomplish this overnight, but always work toward the end goal.. put them in their cribs and say 9t,9t.
This ability to self sooth is also the key to sleeping through the night. if they can put them selves back to sleep they are less likely to be up calling for you at night.

- In your opinion, is three months too early to let them cry for timed intervals in order to extinguish their crying? i think i started right around 12 weeks adjusted age
- Any words of encouragement or advice for using graduated extinction? make a commitment and stick with it. If you are going to back out it is better not to do it at all. consistency is the key. time your intervals.. 1 minute of crying feels like fooorrreeeveeer. while they are crying do something to distract yourself. i usually stop cleaning or whatever i am doing and get on twinstuff.. makes me feel like i am not so alone. :friends: just a note, both my kids would make a last ditch effort with a BIG, LOUD cry then done.. many times i almost ruined all that effort by going in just before they went to sleep.
- Any thoughts for or against graduated extinction? worked for us, and once they got it, they rarely have sleep issues (again, knocking on wood)
- What soothing techniques did you use with your three month babies to help them fall asleep for naps? i didn't do a lot, usually just put them down and they went to sleep.. sometimes keeping your hands on them with a light weight for a minute helps then gradually remove your hands. if they were acting like they were restless i would rocked them side to side. But really the least you can do and get them fall asleep the better.. always keep the goal of SELFsoothing in mind.
- When they are in their car seats, we rock the seats and sometimes swing them. This obviously will not work in the crib. How do you soothe your babies when they are in their cribs? see above

The only thing i would add is to do things in small steps. for example, work on getting your shoulder baby to self sooth first (put down sleep but awake)... or work on the easier baby first. Transitioning from car seat to crib, can you tilt the car seat for a few days so that it is reclined at an angle closer to the bed angle? tilt the bed so it is at an angle for now. use rolled blankets to create the cozy close feeling of the car seats (maybe even under their legs so their position is similar to before. i used these blankets for rolls b/c they are breathable.

Pick the thing you expect to be the easiest to change and do that first.. work on the easy baby first and start with just naps or just night time.

GL! the effort you put in now really will pay off later. I hope you will ask more questions as you have them.. we usually are a pretty responsive group. i feel bad i missed you post.

 

LOL Amy, you're welcome - that's such a lovely thing to say, I feel bad for not being around so much lately, FB have some great local mums groups now (incl. some Aussie multiple groups) and I've kinda been hanging out there.. I'll try to make more of an effort to come here more often.

I couldn't agree more with this but OMG you know what, my girls don't really cry that much but what they do do, is PLAY big time when they should be sleeping and they will always do a great big squeal of laughter just before going to sleep and many a time I have made that mistake to go and settle them (as in "I have had enough! they SHOULD be asleep, not playing" lol... I digress.. yes this last ditch effort is the last sigh before slipping into their sleep.

This is a really good point, Amy!

The payoffs on working on your baby's sleep is pretty much immediate and lasts forever. Sometimes (usually after colds etc) you need to revisit these steps, but it doesn't take long for them to remember. And this group has been amazing for support and advice, I don't know where I'd have been without it in my first year!

 

Thanks you so much for the thoughts and advice. We are starting to try and sooth them in their cribs for naps and haven't quite settled on trying any gradual extinction thing yet. Go figure....just after that post they started going to sleep a little faster and self soothing a little more...I'll keep you posted. Again, thanks for the time to write out your answers, I love twinstuff!