PTing and daycare

My twins are not quite 3.5, and I think successfully potty trained. Daycare has been great in working with us. My issue is that now that they are going on the potty, there seems to be an issue with cleaning them. They have the kids do it so they can learn. But they are 3, so they aren't great at it. It mostly affects my DD because DS usually waits to go at home. But she's coming home every day with substantial skid marks in her underwear or even whole clothing changes. Apparently no one is helping her. I've had a conversation with the morning teacher about this (I think the afternoon is the issue), and it's not resolving. I'm going to talk to the morning teacher again and then escalate to the director. My question is, am I being reasonable? I believe that a 3.5 year old should have assistance with wiping. I understand they want them to learn, but you can't just tell a 3 year old to wipe and leave it at that. My daughter is sitting in her own filth for hours or ruining clothes. Plus she will then convey to us that she didn't do a good job cleaning herself, which bugs me. She's doing great with potty training. Her reward shouldn't be feeling bad about not being able to wipe well. Am I crazy? I was under the impression that it was normal to need assistance wiping until like 5 or even older. Someone give me perspective because I'm really quite upset about this.

 

I think it is reasonable to expect some assistance after the child attempts. My oldest didn't start being competent with wiping until almost 5 - he always waited to come home as well.

I would not be happy to have her soiled for hours, oh no!

 

You are being totally reasonable. When my oldest is at home or grandparents and he goes, he still occasionally asks for help to get himself totally clean and he's almost 7.

I haven't even introduced wiping to my younger boys yet, they've been potty-trained about 1 month and I'm not ready to deal with poop all over their hands, etc.

Your kids' daycare providers were wiping their butts when they pooped in their diaper a few months ago, it shouldn't be any different now just b/c they are potty-trained! Not to mention, their little bottoms can get really red, raw, and irritated when poop sits in there all day long. Lennon has had problems like that come up off and on since being potty-trained if he didn't do a good job wiping and it is painful and itchy!

I'd be ticked too, Rachael. They are 3! Their arms barely reach back there to wipe themselves at all, no way are they ready to wipe independently without anyone doing a little follow-up wipe.

 

My boys are a 3.5 as well, and we've been potty trained almost a year-and I *still* wipe them. I don't know when I will stop or have them work on it, but like you, I want to make sure they are all clean down there with no skid marks, etc.

Personally, I'd be peeved too. No reason why they shouldn't be helping.

 

I think it is completely reasonable to expect them to give some help with wiping. I still wipe mine and they will be 4 in a few weeks. It is ridiculous (or lazy) that they don't help! I don't blame you for being upset! I would certainly bring it up to the teacher again and/or director. One other thing...I have heard it mentioned on here...putting some vaseline on them (specifically girls) just to give a protective barrier to keep skin from getting so irritated from not wiping so well. That could help with rash/irriation etc... Not that this should replace good wiping (or lack thereof), but it might help...at least while she is at school. :unknw:

I completely agree with you that while potty training, the last thing you want is for them to feel ashamed or like they are doing something wrong. I can't believe that anyone working with 3 year olds would think that this is acceptable.

 

Yup, I'd be annoyed too. I'm all for teaching kids and letting them practice - but they have to know what they're doing in order to practice. The teachers should be helping your daughter to ensure she's clean and comfortable until you're confident and they're confident that she's figured it all out. For what it's worth, my girls are just over 4 and they still can't effectively wipe themselves most of the time.

 

While I agree that 3.5 year olds need help wiping (my 5.5 year olds still need help sometimes), I have to say that our daycare didn't really do that either. I wasn't crazy about the skid marks, and occasionally they got a rash, but it wasn't terrible. I think the teachers did help if a child really had it smeared everywhere, but not for just a little leftover poop. They had 2 teachers and 20 kids, and just couldn't be in the bathroom all the time.

So, while I agree that it's worth mentioning, it might be unrealistic to expect anything much to change.

 

My girls are 5.5 and I still help them fairly often after they've pooped. They try, but just don't get themselves clean. And like you, I don't want them to just sit in it. Plus, it's especially important for girls to get clean because they are much more prone to UTIs when they're not. My older kids kind of figured out getting themselves clean by about 4.5, and one of my girlies is better than the other. But kids are different and sometimes need help, and especially at 3.5.

 

Personally, I think your expectation is reasonable. My DD has been PT-ed for year and I still have to help wipe her after a bowel movement. No way could she clean herself good after that. DS has been PT-ed for almost a year and it's the same thing. I would definitely say it's worth mentioning. I know day cares have a lot of kids to take care of and it's impossible to be on top of every one of them but if they are changing your DD's clothes due to skid marks then I think they could take the extra minute or two to make sure she's wiped well. Good luck!

 

I stopped helping my oldest at 4 when he started going to the bathroom on his own initiative without reminders and assistance because he wanted to do his thing on his own. He was in pre-school at that age and they went into the stalls alone, without teacher assistance so at school, they had to do things on their own. Would they allow her to use flushable wipes or something that might help get her cleaner? I'd ask the teacher what the policy is about helping them in the bathroom at this age and then ask the to stick to it.

 

My kids aren't in daycare, but that sounds very reasonable to me. My kids go to church on Sundays and they always have assistance in the bathroom (including with wiping). Their class has 2 and 3 year olds in it.

 

Mine still need help wiping poop. I don't think its unreasonable at all. Their little arms are barely long enough to reach around!

 

I agree with all the others... and I'd be ticked as well.

I'm not sure if this is true but a friend of mine told me that they can't actually wipe until they can put their arm up over their head and touch their other ear. Her arms may just not be long enough.

 

This. My kiddos will start full-time preschool in the fall and I have asked a friend whose daughter attends the same preschool what the policy is for wiping. At the schoool, the kiddos are expected to use the bathroom on their own and they need to call out to the teacher for help wiping their bottoms. The teachers cannot follow each kid into the bathroom each time they use it to see if they need help.

I am worried about it, but have been coaching the kids on how to ask for help wiping. I send them on their own and have them call out "Wipe, please!" when they have pooped.

I am not thrilled with the prospect of residue on their skin/underwear, but I do not think there is anything else that can be done :unknw:

Keep us posted!!

 

Sounds to me like the daycare workers just do not want to wipe the kids. Honestly at that age someone should help them, they are just learning. The daycare workers have to know that unless these 3 yr olds poop a clean break poop, all of them have skid marks at the end of the day~ which is unacceptable. no help is no different than no wipe. if they do not expect to help a 3 yr old then they should not be working with them.


could also be a sign of the times and maybe the center is worried that if they help in the bathroom that a kid will tell a parent that the teacher touched their privates and cause an investigation and possible law suit?

 

I completely agree with you!! But, it's a rule here in our "schools" and daycares that they must be potty trained and need ZERO assistance w/ bathroom. They are literally NOT ALLOWED (bogus, if you ask me!) to even snap their pants for them! The boys will be in school next year and I'm SOOO worried about the wiping thing! I think kids need help w/ that for a LONG time!

Anyway, keep us posted. I'm totally w/ you!

 

This is the same case here in preschool. My guys are starting in September, and I am worried about this. I know that in the preschool, the adults are *teachers* primarily, so they don't want to deal with diapers, etc., but these little guys will be *just* 3, and this is so young! They have to be fully potty trained, and have to be able to take care of all their hygiene needs by themselves. The school even says that for liability reasons, they won't clean up accidents; the kids have to clean it up themselves. :unsure: I think it's totally unreasonable, but that's the rule. I plan on dressing the boys in elastic pants (nothing that snaps) for the 2 days per week of preschool and hope for the best.

For a daycare (not a preschool) I would expect them to be more understanding. I would also be angry about my child sitting in dirty underwear all day.

 

My kids are 4 and need help with wiping. Daycare helps with that. Does your daycare have a policy of being 100% assistance free in the bathroom? If they don't, then I don't think you are being unreasonable in requesting they help a bit more.

 

[quote name='Nate and Jack's Mom' date='14 July 2011 - 05:32 PM' timestamp='1310661134' post='1803176']
This is the same case here in preschool. My guys are starting in September, and I am worried about this. I know that in the preschool, the adults are *teachers* primarily, so they don't want to deal with diapers, etc., but these little guys will be *just* 3, and this is so young! They have to be fully potty trained, and have to be able to take care of all their hygiene needs by themselves. The school even says that for liability reasons, they won't clean up accidents; the kids have to clean it up themselves. :unsure: I think it's totally unreasonable, but that's the rule. For a daycare (not a preschool) I would expect them to be more understanding. I would also be angry about my child sitting in dirty underwear all day.
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I taught preschool for 3 yr olds and many were new potty-trainees. Our 'policy' was simliar to the above due to licensing procedures/rules/regulations. Simply a 'daycare' facility has different standards & has to have different facility accommodations in place for any child needing bathroom assistance (changing tables, access to wipes, etc) than a few day a week preschool.

That said- I think it is unreasonable, but yes- that was state policy for 'preschool'-only settings.

That said, one of my DDs is not PT. When she needed assistance at the preschool ( I worked there) I helped her if needed, or she herself took care of it (per policy).

As a teacher-- yes, at times I did assist kiddos with changing 'hard to change' clothes or cleaning up. But, no I could not and did not check on every child in the bathroom. I was there, but the children went into the stalls alone and took care of all their needs. I did not intervene unless asked. I did often button pants, pull up tights, etc. though we were not supposed to, my Director thought that was unreasonable when working with 3 yr olds so said to do what is needed.


FWIW- we did not allow flushable wipes due to the super sensitive plumbing in the building- it clogged very easily. A sign was posted for NOT flushing a long list of anything down the toilets (the preschool building shared facilities with the church)!! So check on if you could use them, but it is a good solution if you can!

My suggestion would be to try to teach your DC to ask for assistance or practice wiping a lot at home if it is a preschool setting.

If it is a daycare (all day) setting- I would ask for a teacher/assistant to check on your DC in the afternoon to help with personal care. If needed- if you are having rash concerns, get your Pediatrician involved to state that 'cleanliness' is required due to rashes, etc. A Dr note, can at times give you a lot more 'legal' leeway if needed. Daycares have different regulations and should have the manpower and facilities to assist with kiddos that are there all day and just learning to PT.

 

I honestly don't remember when I stopped helping my boys wipe. I do know, they started day camp a few days before turning 4, and was told they had to wipe themselves (at that point, I think I was still helping one of them). Their counselor told me that she tells the kids (she works with preschoolers all year) to wrap toilet paper around their hand, and then wipe. The child who needed the help at that time, now, 5 years later, does a much better job then his brother, who had already been wiping independently.

And, like KC said, many times it it due to laws and regulations that they can't help once the kids are in a certain class level.

 

It is a daycare, not a preschool. Two months ago, they were changing their diapers. They pushed potty training and the kids going straight to undies. They do NOT have a no assistance policy. They do have flushable wipes. And the first time I spoke to the morning teacher, she agreed that I was being reasonable. The afterrnoon teacher is the issue. She's overwhelmed with three year olds, and this isn't the first example of that. There was a period of a week where the kids were playing in toilet water every day because she was not supervising, which she admitted. So it's very different from a preschool setting. And I'm all for them learning, but I think someone needs to check that they got it. Thanks for the advice!