preschool readiness

The boys will be transitioning from daycare to preschool this summer, and last night I went to a workshop where we were met the teachers, learned about the curriculum, etc. The preschool is at the same center they are in now for daycare, but the school is located downstairs.

I'm pretty overwhelmed by what they are expecting the kids to be able to accomplish in order to be ready for preschool at age 3. They have to be potty trained and in underwear (no pullups). The kids are expected to go to the bathroom by themselves: go into the bathroom of their own accord, get up on the toilet, pull pants down and wipe themselves without help. The teacher told me that the first few months a group of 3-year olds is starting in the preschool, there are tons of potty accidents. They also expect your kid to go in their cubby, get out their own clothes and change themselves when they have an accident.

We have just recently started potty training and are basically in the "practice" phase. They will be three in July and that's around when they are supposed to start preschool. Is this asking too much of newly-three year old kids? I look at the boys now and can't imagine them being able to completely change themselves and wipe themselves in bathroom and whatnot in 3 months. I'm wondering where other almost-three year olds are at with their development skills (potty training and otherwise).

I don't want to be in a situation where I feel pressured to push them. But I'm already feeling pressure Are my kids behind or am I underestimating them??

Michelle

 

My children didn't wipe themselves completely independently until Kindergarten. They never had an accident in preschool and honestly I don't know what the policy would have been for changing clothes but I am thinking they would have had assistance because the changes of clothes were stored in individually labeled ziploc bags in two large bins, one for the girls and one for the boys. I can't imagine them having to stumble through all the bags to get theirs, they would have had to have had assistance.

I personally think yes, it is asking too much. Our preschool preferred them to be potty trained but it was not a requirement. I don't believe in forcing children to potty train for any reason other than they are ready so I would not have chosen a school that required the children were potty trained unless they already were potty trained (yes, I know there are people that set their potty training time table by preschool/daycare requirements and that's cool if it works for you but it doesn't for me).

 

i'm not in daycare. i have girls not boys. but i'll throw my 2 cents in anyway. Rachel is completely trained and in underwear all day, pull up at night. about once a month or less she may have an accident at nap time.

Alexis leaks all the time, won't take herself to the bathroom yet, and is just now telling me (sometimes) when she needs to go. She will sometimes change herself when she has an accident, but usually i am catching her and strongly encouraging her to go to the potty.

I don't blame preschools for this standard, although I am equally annoyed by it. if I were the teacher, I'd never get a story finished if I had to keep up with 15 kids needing to go potty/get changed, etc. It would be ridiculous IMO.

 

I don't have boys, but I've always understood that boys train later...

Does the school address that issue at all?

 

QUOTE(Meximeli @ Apr 17 2008, 05:34 PM) [snapback]726210[/snapback]
I don't have boys, but I've always understood that boys train later...

Does the school address that issue at all?

Whenever I bring it up, they sort of act like they don't know what I'm talking about. It concerns me that the toddlers who transition to the preschool are having tons of accidents because these kids might not be ready to go into underwear yet. Is it really a good idea to put kids who are not ready into underwear and then let them pee their pants all day? The teacher said the first "few months" there are a lot of accidents.

I don't know. Like a pp said, I also understand where they are coming from - it would be a bit of a nightmare for them to keep up with pullup or diaper changes all day.

Michelle

 

I think it is too much to ask that the children be able to wipe themselves and change their clothes by themselves. My girls are 5 and still don't wipe when they poopy, but that's my fault because I would rather do it. I feel like even at 5 they are too young to do a good job without help, but especially at the age of 3! And I haven't seen a 3 year old who doesn't need assistance while getting dressed.

It is reasonable though for them to be expected to be potty trained because changing diapers does take up a large portion of a teachers time.

I wonder if this has to do with the teachers trying to protect themselves, by not seeing the kids naked or helping them change their clothes...then they can't be accused of doing something inappropriate.

 

I would also hope that the school would give you some consideration for the fact that they will be young in relation to the rest of the 3-year old class. I'm guessing their class will have kids who turned 3 last fall, so they're almost a full year older than yours. Hopefully the school will take this into consideration, and the fact that the teacher said they often have accidents early on tells me that they do expect accidents and are okay with it.

FWIW, my mom taught preschool and then kindergarten for years. In preschool, she expected kids to be potty trained, but she also expected to have to help them wipe sometimes (though she had them start themselves and then ask her if they needed help), and she also expected accidents sometimes. In kindergarten, she expected kids to do it all, though an occasional need for help or an occasional accident did happen.

She actually had moms of kindergarteners ask if their kids could come to school in pull-ups, and her answer was no way! But for preschool, they have to understand that the kids are still little and are still learning. Still, I think the schools have to have these 'rules' so that parents know it's important and to encourage parents to train their kids well. But, I also think they have to allow for consideration of how young these kids are and know that some will need help.

Bottom line, I wouldn't be concerned with the rules they have and would do my best to get my kids ready, to the extent they ARE ready. But I would be concerned if they treated me or my children with any disrespect if/when accidents happened or help was needed.

 

I would think that with three year olds there would be at least one aid in the class to assist with changing after an accident. I can understand the need for them to be fully day trained but the expectation for them to be able to change and wipe well is a bit much. I don't know many three year olds that are that coordinated or patient.

 

We have the same rules here at preschool. It doesn't start until Fall though. My two are far from being potty trained, BUT in my circumstance there is an exception because they are involved with special ed (speech). There will be an aide to help out with diaper changes or help going to the bathroom. That does not mean that we won't be trying to get them potty trained over the summer, but it is nice knowing that they don't have to be. :hug99: I hope something gets figured out!

 

Same here. DS is four and is not toilet trained. He has a bowel disease, which has made it difficult. He was in early intervention before preschool for speech and his disease. He is fine developmentally otherwise.

I know other kids have to be potty trained in the preschool, but since he was admitted with a liaison, he is exempt. There are other kids in the same boat.

They can never deny a kid an education if they aren't toilet trained.




QUOTE(JicJac @ Apr 17 2008, 01:30 PM) [snapback]726312[/snapback]
We have the same rules here at preschool. It doesn't start until Fall though. My two are far from being potty trained, BUT in my circumstance there is an exception because they are involved with special ed (speech). There will be an aide to help out with diaper changes or help going to the bathroom. That does not mean that we won't be trying to get them potty trained over the summer, but it is nice knowing that they don't have to be. :hug99: I hope something gets figured out!

 

My girls preschool does not require the 3 years old to be potty trained. But the 4 year olds are strongly encouraged to be. But they are only going 4 hours a day.
Since your boys are in the daycare in the same school, are they working with them now to get them potty trained?

 

QUOTE(Meximeli @ Apr 17 2008, 12:34 PM) [snapback]726210[/snapback]
I don't have boys, but I've always understood that boys train later...


I've heard this, too, although I am not sure I buy into it. I know many mom's of boys who potty-trained before 2 and were successful. It wasn't too many decades ago that all children were potty-trained by 2. Ok, not all but most. The convenience of disposables and the way they wick the moisture away has possibly allowed us to be more lenient on children being potty-trained later. Just my 2 cents.

That being said, I think the expectation of changing themselves in the event of an accident is inflexible. I've taught pre-k and kindergarten. Accidents happen. It is hard to get out of dirty clothes in a "public" type bathroom. It is also humiliating for many kids. What's the big deal? I've helped change PLENTY of young kids when they've had an accident at school. You just do it. It's part of your job. I don't have a prob with them saying they have to be toliet-trained but seriously, change yourself if you have an accident??? C'mon, have a little compassion!

 

My girls' school requires the same thing for the 3 year old class. One of my DDs is completely potty trained, can wipe herself (although I help when she is at home), and can change her clothes by herself, so she will be fine. Her sister is still in diapers and does not want to use the potty. We have until August, so I am hoping she will change her mind during the summer.

 

Our preschool has the same rule. In the 2-year-old classroom they will change diapers, but all kids must be potty trained to move to 3's. My older DD was actually trained relatively early, about 25 months, so she used the bathroom even in the 2's classroom -- but, they were not allowed to help her wipe.

I was told it was a liability issue, which I thought was ridiculous, as they were allowed to change diapers for goodness sake.

Anyhow. She just turned 4, and still isn't the most coordinated at wiping after she poops, although she will attempt it if necessary. Lucky for us, she never poops at school, so I am available to help her at home.

I'm honestly not sure what the teachers do in the event of an accident -- all kids keep a spare outfit at school -- but I can't imagine them standing there, refusing to help a kid that was wet and miserable and humiliated.

Also, in terms of initiating going to the bathroom -- the kids are free to ask whenever they need, obviously, but I know they also have at least one regularly-scheduled potty break, where the whole class walks down to the bathrooms.

 

Part of the reason could be State laws, which are different all over. But I've heard that the rules change when the kids get potty trained, and it impacts the number of teachers and aides needed. My point is, it might be not completely up to the school - it might be somewhat driven by the state. That doesn't make it right or easy to deal with, but they might be stuck somewhat themselves.

 

I can understand the must be potty-trained rule, but I cannot understand not helping with changing clothes or assisting in the bathroom if help is needed. Shouldn't there be an aide, or is it just one teacher per X number of students? Our preschool is only two hours a day, but they do not expect them to be potty trained (we're in the 2-3 yr old class) and they do change pull-ups, clothes, and assist in the bathroom.

 

QUOTE(ksugal @ Apr 17 2008, 07:52 PM) [snapback]726483[/snapback]
I've heard this, too, although I am not sure I buy into it. I know many mom's of boys who potty-trained before 2 and were successful. It wasn't too many decades ago that all children were potty-trained by 2. Ok, not all but most. The convenience of disposables and the way they wick the moisture away has possibly allowed us to be more lenient on children being potty-trained later. Just my 2 cents.


I agree with this. Because my girls are growing up in Mexico, their daycare center started training them at 18 months. It was actually a major activity in the 18-24 month room. It's sort of the potty training room. To move into the 24-30 month room they have to be mostly trained. So my girls were day trained by two. I waited until after they were 3 to night train them--but the school was encouraging me to do it earlier and I'm under the impression that most of the kids there were totally trained earlier.

My girls could dress themselves at three--IF we are talking elastic waist pants and a pull on t-shirt or sweatshirt. If our school made them change themselves I would probably only send easy on clothing.

I also at home don't let them wipe themselves for poop yet. I just don't think they will do a good enough job.

 

I would give the director a call. Our preschool told us the same thing. But, when I spoke with the director, she said what they are really looking for is that the child knows what to do when they go to the bathroom--in other words, they don't want children who need an adult to totally initiate going to the bathroom. There were a number of kids still in pull ups in the 3 year old class, but the director told me, they preferred to deal with the messes of real underpants, because pull ups really didn't help a child to get trained. They are actually stricter about PT for the kids in the 2 1/2 year old class than the 3 year old class--and I think they realize that some kids aren't ready at 3, but are still ready for school.

 

I think Sharon hit the nail on the head in that the kids need to be able to use the bathroom independently. That is the intent of the rule. I cannot imagine any preschool demanding that a three year old independently problem solve like that after an accident. But I do think that it is realistic to ask three year olds to initiate the use of the potty, pull down their own pants, wipe (well enough anyways), pull up their pants, and wash their hands.

We have spent a lot of time recently in preschools, "shopping" for one for the kids this summer/fall. There is so much going on, and kids are constantly using the bathroom. You cannot expect the teacher to drop everything any time a child needs to use the bathroom. Sure, a little help here and there from the aide is realistic, but not a constant 1:1 bathroom chaperone.

I am sure they are more lenient in the beginning. Everyone is learning the routines and that will take some time.

And please know that I may be approaching this with a slightly biased vantage point, as Ben was trained before 3. He will be ready and so a rule like that would not stress me out as much. If I were in your shoes, I would probably be more concerned! So if I sound hard-nosed, I sincerely do not mean to!!!

 

The school my daughter went to(and the boys will go to next year) would love them potty trained, but pull-ups are exceptable. If they have an accident they will help them and give them spare clothes to change into and put theirs in a plastic bag. If there is a poop, however, they will call the parents to come and take care of it. It is a 3-hour class and they accept children for the Fall if they will be 3 by December.
My daughter was potty trained well- but started having urinary tract infections at 3.5 and had frequent accidents every few months as a result. My poor baby! She thankfully grew out of them after 6 months of low dose antibiotics at 5.5 years old.
Good luck.
Lanie