Please tell me my little guys aren't going to be like this

Yesterday, I witnessed someone using a harness with a child who looked about 3 in a restaurant. The kid was like a wild animal. She was jumping on her chair, throwing fits, shrieking, and the family who was with her seemed used to it. They rewarded her bad behavior with a balloon and an enormous dish of ice cream -- neither of which she had asked for, they were just trying to get her to sit still. They held the leash from the moment they walked in the place until they left. What annoyed me about the whole scene was that the leash seemed to be enabling her to misbehave without getting into any real danger so they weren't making efforts at correcting anything.

My boys walked in holding our hands, sat in their highchairs, and ate their dinners. DH wants to know if they're going to turn into wild animals in the next two years.

 

I know mine aren't that age yet, but I believe that if you instill table manners like sitting still and being somewhat quiet from an early age, it will stick. A friend of mine has a little girl that's 3 and that running around and stuff is the way she acts when we go out to eat b/c that's how her parents allow her to act at home when it's time to eat.

 

Most likely no! My girls turned 2 in January & are pretty much well-behaved, I've gotten comments about it. It;s funny too that when they see a child misbehaving they will stare at them & ask me questions, I tell them point-blank tht the child is being bad & that they need time out. Some people care more about what they want to do, go out to dinner, than making kids behave. It's sad that they don't take the time to correct them, it is pretty obvious the child was "asking" for some correction. I imagine she has been "ignored" in other ways too. They are the "terrible two's" but they really aren't that bad & I could surely be able to have mine with me alone at a restaurant alone, unleashed!

 

I agree, instill table manners from the get go and if you can swing it financially then try to go out periodically so they know what is expected of them in those situations. I am guessing the child was out for Mother's Day? Quite possible she does not eat out at restaurants often and the boundaries had not been set. I have definitely found K&K to test the boundaries every now and then but for the most part they are great (the closest I ever came to taking Kyle out was actually at a TS get together, how embarrasing lol!! but basically my fault since I knew they had had a long day and I probably should have passed on the restaurant since I knew they were tired, hot, etc etc so I take the blame for that one!).

 

I agree it doesn't have to be that way. We try to take C and H out once in a while to teach them how to behave in public. They do pretty well and we make sure we are prepared to discipline them if needed. If things start to get bad we say something like "you need to settle down and be nice or we will leave..." And we usually end up doing that. It's starting to sink in, though. The last time we went out they were really good and we didn't need to "threaten" to leave.

It's hard to follow through with something that "ruins" YOUR dinner. We ate many meals back at home because we had to leave before we could eat there, but it is starting to be worth it now. Stick to your guns and teach them to behave. They'll be fine.

 

My girls just turned four and most of the time we were able to take them out to restaurants with no problems. I DO remember, however, that there were some stages when it was better to just stay at home to eat. Somewhere between 2 and 3 there were some times when they expressed themselves a little too loudly and would get frustrated with their inability to communicate what they wanted to say so they would get upset. This is a normal part of "two-hood" and not one that is very conducive to eating out in public restaurants. They were never as "wild" as what you described, but all children have different temperments and go through different stages, so you actually may have some embarrassing public moments or times when it's easier to ignore the behaviour to just get through a meal. I do agree that consistency is the key to promoting good behaviour, but even the best parents experience a red faced moment or two when taking their toddlers out to eat.

 

We probably go out to eat at least once a week. For the most part our kids are pretty well behaved. We do make sure to take things to entertain them like crayons or their favorite toy. I think it can be hard for a small child to sit there and wait for the food to come, which can sometimes be a while. We have always taken the kids out to eat and I think that if you do it often enough and set (reasonable) expectations then you will be fine.

 

QUOTE(shelbyolivia @ May 14 2007, 08:25 AM) [snapback]254270[/snapback]
It;s funny too that when they see a child misbehaving they will stare at them & ask me questions, I tell them point-blank tht the child is being bad & that they need time out. Some people care more about what they want to do, go out to dinner, than making kids behave. It's sad that they don't take the time to correct them, it is pretty obvious the child was "asking" for some correction. I imagine she has been "ignored" in other ways too. They are the "terrible two's" but they really aren't that bad & I could surely be able to have mine with me alone at a restaurant alone, unleashed!


Ummm, what if the child you are think it's so funny to stare at isn't being bad, but perhaps is autistic? Time outs don't cure that, neither do ignorrant assumptions about a childs behavior, or how much a parent cares about their child. Sometimes a parent is doing the best possible, and so is their child, and people are horrible in the way they treat them. I'm not saying this is always the case, but you don't know it isn't, and for many of the special needs families that I know, the staring and comments are cruelty they must endure every time they have the "nerve" to take their child out in public.

 

WOW! Can you imagine that child as a teenager? They won't be able to use the harness then! LOL ---- No, your child will most likely never act like that becase you are obviously taking the time to parent and teach them now!

 

Have you ever heard of the book "Shut up about your perfect kid!". It was written by sisters who have special needs children. They talk about the looks they would get when their kids were acting "out of control", however, thier kids couldn't help thier behavior.

I would never condone the behavior you described with my own children, but they aren't Bipolar, ADHD, or Autistic. I guess we don't always know the whole story so maybe sometimes we should cut other parents some slack. I'm not posting this to make anyone feel bad, I used to make similar comments. However, after hearing thier story I now think twice.

 

I'm so scared my boys are going to end up like this. THey are sooo miserable I do not reward the behavior (we get up and leave) but they really can just throw temper tantrum after temper tantrum. They do OK for a little while but if things don't get moving quickly all heck can break out. I'm often at a loss.

 

My kids can't sit still at a restaurant. Mother's day was a disaster, and I'm not planning on taking them out for a while. They aren't interested in food, so we have 2 high chairs with no babies in them and me and my mom walking the kids around. My twins probably will be the ones that everyone stares at. I hope not, but it's a possibility. Either I'm doing something very wrong, or my kids just don't have the patience for a sit down meal.

Who knows.. Only time will tell.

 

Its give and take here, but I have never had them get to the point where I had to leave...they will throw food on the floor (like they do here and I still correct that), but they are about out of that now..the last time we went out, it was great...we have to keep them busy...bring a couple of small things...maybe a book, some matchboxes...crayons.

Putting a leash on a three year old seems really hastey to me...maybe there was something wrong with her?? Rewardign her though...no good. I would have left, and there would have been NO TV the next day or worse...(whatever they like would be gone for a few hours if not all day)..I think they should be able to understand punishment at 3...

I used the leash ONCE...and it was in Disney to keep from loosing them...they holds hands with us, but wont the whole day. I felt a little humiliated though...It looks really stupid, but its necessary in some situations with toddlers. That though, is unreal...

I think she could have had a mental issue maybe...if Not, dont worry...if you are that aware of something like that, your boys wont be that bad!!

 

I am 100% with Michele and Jinx here. We have NO right to judge others the way we do, and before I had kids myself, I found it easy to comment on the behaviors of children in public. I was just talking to my mom about this yesterday, and how I wish I could take those words back, although none were ever directed to the actual parents/child(ren). Sometimes, despite the parents' best efforts, the child is not compliant. Perhaps the child was doing the very best she could, and perhaps the parents were just so grateful that the child was as under control as she was. I guess it's different for those of us who have strong-willed children where self-control requires exhausting levels of effort on the kids and parents.

 

I agree sorta. The kids may not be able control themselves, but they can be removed from the situation. We've only had to do it once, but we'd do it again.

 

QUOTE(marieber @ May 15 2007, 06:06 PM) [snapback]256060[/snapback]
I agree sorta. The kids may not be able control themselves, but they can be removed from the situation. We've only had to do it once, but we'd do it again.


Marie - I agree with what you said. I didn't address this in my original thread because I was short on time. I know my kids and can predict their behavior most often. I tend to not take them places where they would annoy the average family. If we go out to eat we try to stick to buffets or, if a sit-down and order place, we go during off-peak hours. We did take them to Kelly's Irish Tavern on Friday night because we had family in town and that's where they wanted to go. Although I was completely stressed the entire time and constantly micromanaging every move my kids made, they actually surprised me and did well. We just take it one day at a time and address one issue at a time.

 

For those who took my post to be a judgement and criticism of the parents, that was not my intent. I was simply wondering if this is a stage that is coming or not because handling two who were acting like that would be pretty rough. Perhaps the child has a disability and that was why they seemed so accustomed to the outbursts and were not correcting her behavior. However, the older man who was walking her around (presumably grandpa) made apologetic comments to several people about her being like a wild animal as he passed which made me think that this is typical for them and made me wonder if it's typical for many others.

I also want to clarify that I was not staring at them. They were seated next to us and the girl made a number of attempts to come over to our table so I couldn't help but see her behavior and their reaction to it.

 

QUOTE
I would never condone the behavior you described with my own children, but they aren't Bipolar, ADHD, or Autistic. I guess we don't always know the whole story so maybe sometimes we should cut other parents some slack. I'm not posting this to make anyone feel bad, I used to make similar comments. However, after hearing thier story I now think twice


I have to agree with this. I have a severe ADHD/sensory child. Though he does not behave like this in public, when he was smaller and nonmedicated, we had some VERY bad instances. (under the seat of an airplane SCREAMING, kicking, scratching my face, etc...) My other two sat perfectly still and enjoyed the ride as well behaved little boys. My oldest could not do that. He couldn't help it. He has a medical condition. I prayed that the people around us weren't thinking about us and that we let him become a wild animal. We were doing the best we could during a difficult situation. Maybe this family has a special needs child and because of that rarely goes to restaurants,. We rarely go out to eat, if ever. But maybe it was a special day and they wanted to try. Good for them for trying. Now that I have a special needs kid, I look at these situations completely differently.

The grandpa was probably embarrassed, I know I have been. Though I would never use the term wild animal, I am sure my parents, being of another generation, would. What a difficult situation. And if the child does not have any special needs, it is alarming that she is allowed to act in a way that is innapropriate... Poor kid.

 

QUOTE(Cristina @ May 15 2007, 05:27 PM) [snapback]256361[/snapback]
I have to agree with this. I have a severe ADHD/sensory child. Though he does not behave like this in public, when he was smaller and nonmedicated, we had some VERY bad instances. (under the seat of an airplane SCREAMING, kicking, scratching my face, etc...)


On an airplane you can't leave, you have to deal with it and I imagine that was horrible. A restaurant you can leave, and IMO someone should have taken that child outside. Both of my girls have sensory issues and both can be very very difficult at times. I would NEVER expose other diners to that behavior. Like Heather expressed, unless it was a very child friendly environment.

I don't blame the child. The child is a child. The parents have to make the decision to inconvenience themselves, because it's not fair to the other people around them. You take the chance, and if it doesn't work, oh well, get the food wrapped up and GO!

My opinion anyway.

 

QUOTE(marieber @ May 15 2007, 10:44 PM) [snapback]256740[/snapback]
I don't blame the child. The child is a child. The parents have to make the decision to inconvenience themselves, because it's not fair to the other people around them. You take the chance, and if it doesn't work, oh well, get the food wrapped up and GO!

\


I agree...I do not have autistic or sensory sensitive children...but its amazing as a parent what you become aware of...I may have been annoyed at first, but then maybe felt bad thinking there was something wrong.

My nephew I think has sensory/ADHD and Social issues. His parents NEVER acknowledge it however, and never dicipline him in anyway shape or form. Of course, I dont know the extent of dicipline in children with these issues, I cant imagine there is something you do...to at least gently remind them of thier surroudings...

Of course, some children are just brats. I worked in Daycare and met HUNDREDS of them!! I could usually tell the ADHD from the regular, just bratty and overactive kids. Parents would be called over and over and NO action was ever taken...the terms, hes a boy, or hes only 4 were used often...she just could have been a product of bad diciplining and laziness...and to me, thats just as sad.

 

I remember thinking the same thing about crazy kids I saw in public, until mine became impossible to take out to eat about 2 months ago. MY mother said, " As soon as you brag on your kids they WILL humble you." This is so true (not that you were bragging).. Maybe they were having a bad day? You never know. And will your kids act like that some day...you betcha! Whether it becomes a habit is up to you!

 

QUOTE(heathernd @ May 15 2007, 05:57 PM) [snapback]256050[/snapback]
I am 100% with Michele and Jinx here. We have NO right to judge others the way we do, and before I had kids myself, I found it easy to comment on the behaviors of children in public. I was just talking to my mom about this yesterday, and how I wish I could take those words back, although none were ever directed to the actual parents/child(ren). Sometimes, despite the parents' best efforts, the child is not compliant. Perhaps the child was doing the very best she could, and perhaps the parents were just so grateful that the child was as under control as she was. I guess it's different for those of us who have strong-willed children where self-control requires exhausting levels of effort on the kids and parents.


Very Good Point! Thanks for expressing it!

 

I appreciate the viewpoints that the child may not be able to conform her behavior to the standards of others, I never really thought of that. I also appreciate that so many mommies posted that they deal with this type of behavior by taking the child out, or withholding privileges. The one thing I wonder about - why would anyone care if someone else's child was acting up in a restaurant? I couldn't care less if someone else's child is hanging from the chandeliers or screaming like a banshee, nor would I expect them to leave. The only thing that bothers me is when kids are in danger from running around with all the heavy trays & hot food. My girls are as good as gold in restaurants - they always have been, though Isabella hates shopping & can crank up the volume when she has had enough. If I took them out of a restaurant it would be for their comfort not discipline or concern about other diners.

 

QUOTE(BellaRissa @ May 16 2007, 07:19 PM) [snapback]258017[/snapback]
The one thing I wonder about - why would anyone care if someone else's child was acting up in a restaurant? I couldn't care less if someone else's child is hanging from the chandeliers or screaming like a banshee, nor would I expect them to leave.


To each her own. I don't want to hear screaming banshees when I go out for a nice (relaxing) meal out. And I don't want to expose others to mine if they are misbehaving. I also think they learn a lesson by being removed from the situation because generally going out to eat is viewed as a big treat by them (it usually involved ICE CREAM!)

 

QUOTE
The one thing I wonder about - why would anyone care if someone else's child was acting up in a restaurant?


I guess it depends on the type of restaurant. I expect kids to be running around and screaming at Chuck E Cheese. The same behavior is not acceptable at a nice restaurant. And yes, I would care if I got a sitter and went somewhere upscale for a romantic dinner out and someone brought their kids and let them act like they're at Chuck E Cheese. I also care when kids are allowed to run around a buffet and stick their hands in the food even though it is a family-friendly place.

 

QUOTE
why would anyone care if someone else's child was acting up in a restaurant?
I care because it can be very disrupting. I always try to be considerate of other people who don't need to have their dining experience changed because I happened to bring my children to the same restaurant at the same time. Also, children learn by example and mine are old enough to recognize what we consider acceptable in our home/family and dinner for me isn't very pleasant when I am bombarded with "mom, how come she is doing that? why is that ok for her to do that?" etc etc etc In this respect you might call me selfish but in another respect I think I am just overly concerned that my children don't effect others' experiences that I tend to micromanage their every move. Sorry, dinner is no 'fun' for me when children are bouncing off walls, standing on chairs, screaming at the top of their lungs whether I have my children with me or not! I try to teach my children as I hope they will act when they are adults, would it be ok for adults to be hanging from chandeliers and screaming like banshees, not in my mind no so why is it ok if my children are?

 

You know, everytime I read these sorts of comments about toddlers being bad, it's always at restaurants. Perhaps the lesson here is going out to eat isn't for everyone all the time. I don't think anyone can plan how their children will act in a restaurant, but since is one of the few places we require our children to sit still and behave like none other. My feeling is that I will probably try to feel out how my girls will do ... and if it's not going to work, I will leave the restaurant with take out instead. I guess I feel like putting any child in a situation that sets them up to fail is not a good idea.