Please PLEASE help

Hi Ive never used a forum like this so im not really sure how this works. I am a mother of 6 month old twin boys. I dont have any other children but i was a preschool teacher for quite a while so i am used to being around children. Their daytime is always perfect. They eat well, nap well and are always happy.....well almost always. My boys are among the group of twins that think sleeping is an option. The fall asleep on the couch (cause thats the only place they will fall asleep without screaming) and we carry them to their pack and plays. Within an hour they wake up SCREAMING and i dont mean they cry and if you dont attend to them they get louder i mean they go from sound asleep to screaming like they are in pain. Bottles at night used to work but now they stop while eating and then continue to scream. One or the other is up atleast every half an hour and stay awake up to two. I love them and want to spend all day playing with them but im usually too tired seeing how im awake 22hrs. a day. Please help....

 

Welcome! You've certainly come to the right place for help; so many of us twin mamas have been through those sleepless nights.

First I would rule out any medical issues. Have you talked to your ped about reflux and/or milk allergies? If they're having trouble feeding, especially at night when they're laying down, then it could be reflux. That might require a change in formula or meds depending on what you're doing.

It might help if you could tell us a little more about your schedule. Sometimes the issue is that they're actually over tired and can't sleep very well. It sounds counter intuitive but you could try putting them down to bed 1/2 hr earlier to see if that helps. It might also help to get them to fall asleep in their bedroom and develop a really distinct bedtime routine; dark and quiet, white noise machine. There are lots of books that can help like No Cry Sleep Solution or Happiest Baby on the Block. Picking up one of these books will help you understand the sleep cycle a little better and help you come up with a plan. Once you have one, stick to it for a couple of weeks and hopefully things will improve! There is NOTHING worse than the lack of sleep in the first year!

 

Ditto ditto ditto And you have certainly come to the right place!! This site has saved my sanity more times than I can count!!

 

I agree completely with the pp. Welcome to TS!

 

Great advice. I am an early bedtime devotee. At 6 months, mine were in bed by 6:00 most nights.

 

It sounds to me like you need to teach them to fall asleep or back asleep on their own in their beds. The first thing I would do is put them down in their beds drowsy but awake. Give them a safe toy/book and play some soft music. Help them out by rubbing them, holding hands, talking soothingly, etc. but don't take them out of their beds if you can help it. Keep them company until they are able to fall asleep. When they wake up in the middle of the night, play the music and again soothe them to sleep without taking them out. Tell them "nighttime is for sleeping, we will play tomorrow." Don't make eye contact or smile--so soothe them but do not play with them.

It sounds like your guys have some bad habits so it may take some time--and more sleeplessness--to get them out of their bad habits, but it is worth the investment.

This is just one method. Some people choose to do CIO or use other methods instead.

 

Thanks so much for the replies just seeing that there ARE other people who understand what im going through makes this so much easier. To clear up a few things this is the general schedule:

5:00am- Wake up, bottle, diapers
6:00am- Playing in toys (walker,jumper,saucer,bumbo)
9:00am- Morning Nap (usually last anywhere between an hour to two)
10:00am/11:00- Bottle, solids, diapers
12:00pm- Playing in toys, floor play with brother, baby T.V
1:00pm/2:00 (depending on when they woke up)- Afternoon nap
3:00pm/4:00pm- Diapers, Bottle, Solids
4:30pm- Playing
Between 6:30pm and 7:00pm they start getting fussy and rubbing their eyes. Yesterday one twin actually fell asleep in the jumper.
7:00ish- Bottle, Diapers
By 8:00- Starting to fall asleep on the couch- If they have their binkies and a blanket if I lay them on the couch they just fall asleep. We move them to their beds by 8:30pm (already asleep)

But then comes the real trouble....by 10:30pm (sometimes sooner) they are screaming..they dont fuss they go from sleeping to screaming which sometimes but not always wakes the other one up. I try binkies, then i try rubbing/patting bellies, then i try rocking/holding (sometimes this works but as soon as i put them down they instantly wake up screaming) then after an hour of fighting with them i try the bottle....this works while its in their mouth and before the burp but once they burp they really dont want it anymore and then the screaming continues till they fall asleep (my older twin does better falling asleep) but the younger twin will only go to sleep after all that..and atleast an hour has gone by...then being put in my bed. The sad part is no matter how long they are awake they will sleep maybe 2 hrs and usually by the time i FINALLY get one back to sleep the other one is awake again. Ive tried to put them to bed later but even if they go to bed at 10:00pm they wake up at 10:30pm

So far I've tried...cutting out using the swings to put them to sleep (cause that was the only way they would fall asleep) We tried to lay them in their beds to fall asleep but they just scream there is no "drowsy" sleep at our house if they are drowsy and you put them in their bed they are SCREAMING like you are hurting them. I tried rubbing bellies, patting their belly helps for naps but they arent in their beds, in their beds nothing seems to help. I tried the cry it out...give them 5 mins and go in give snuggles and binks and walk away and repeat and that works sometimes it takes between 10-30mins. But then they only nap like 15 mins and it KILLS me inside to listen to them screaming. They dont even like it when I go to the kitchen and they cant see me so i feel like they think im never coming back. If I KNEW that this would work i wouldnt mind listening to them scream but it doesnt work and its no fun for me. So there is some more info and again THANK YOU ALL SOOOO MUCH for taking the time in your VERY busy days to try and help me.

 

They should be in bed when they are rubbing their eyes at 6:30. Also watch "trying" a lot of things. Pick the routine that will work for you long term and make consistency a religion.

 

Ditto this. Rachael is right, I think the cue of eye rubbing shows that bedtime needs to be around this time. Are you keeping them up for the last bottle? Can you bump all the others by an ounce or so to drop this one?

 

I would put them down around 630 or 7. Jacob wakes up screaming like he is in pain about 1-2 hours after going to sleep and it is a night terror. He's had them since that age and only ignoring them makes it stop. Believe me, it is hard to ignore because it sounds like they are being hurt. However, if you read about them, interfering with them makes them worse.

Our schedule for the longest time was 9am-10am nap, then 12/1-2/3 nap and bedtime at 630. When they turned 18 months, we finally were able to stay up until 7pm without issues. They even sleep until 7am instead of 5am so it it is nice. What I would do is at 6pm, start your bedtime routine and end it with 630 babies in their cribs in what you think is ready for sleep. We used to play their music boxes (the mobiles had music boxes on them) and let them go to sleep with that. What I would recommend you do to start is have a talk with yourself that what you are going to do is going to work and you are going to give yourself some time to work it out because it won't work over night. Then, when you have put them down at 630, stay in their room and comfort them until they go to sleep. This might take until 8pm at which time you will say "well why didn't I just put them on the couch?" So, the next night, you are going to try again. 630, in bed and you comfort them until they fall asleep. It might take up to a week for them to finally go to sleep within a reasonable amount of time. Then, you want to get them used to going to sleep without you having to comfort them the whole time. So, what you will do is comfort them when they fuss then put them down. If they fuss, let them fuss for 5 mins before you pick them up again (or pat them or whatever). Also, leave the room for that 5 mins (i find it helps to set my iphone). The first night it's going to take a while and you are going to think you are back to square one and wonder why you are bothering. Keep at it. Night two, do the same but go to 7minutes between going in. They will eventually get it if you stick with the routine. You will have to have a lot of pep talks with yourself and your husband that this will work and in the end, it will. It just won't work overnight.

The keys to successful bedtime really are using the same routine every night and having a predictable bedtime. It sucked they were asleep by 645 every night but I used that time to have fun with my older son and spend time with DH.

 

I also want to say, do not do CIO or any form of CIO if you aren't commited to the process. You just end up teaching them to cry more and you can make future efforts more confusing and difficult.

 

Alright, I definitely think that they are way overtired based on that schedule. 4 hours of wake time is way too much for a baby at that age, and they should probably be taking 3 naps. I'd try for something more like this.

6AM wake up
7:30-8AM first nap (No matter when they wake, I'd be putting them back to sleep about 1.5-2 hours after their first wake up)
Around 11-12 second nap (I'm assuming that they would sleep like 1.5-2 hours for the first nap)
Then around 3-4 a shorter cat nap, like 45 minutes
And to bed around 7-7:30.

They need like 14-18 hours of sleep at that age. If they get less than that, then they start to get over tired, and can't get themselves to sleep. What a lot of people do is the eat play sleep routine, and at that age, you probably find they have like 2 hours of wakefulness before the first nap, 3 hours before the second nap, and maybe 3-4 before the third nap.

Keep it up, you're doing a good job, having twinfants is crazy on your sleep. My twins were good newborn sleepers, but it was all down hill after that, and at the point you are at I was nearly losing my mind. Hang in there :youcandoit:

 

I agree with everyone about bedtime, but the first nap interval is 4 hours. I think that's where the day is getting off to a bad start. If they are up at 5, they have got to go down much earlier than 9AM.

 

Thanks again- I will try those ideas cause anything is better than what im doing. They used to nap A LOT they woke up at 5 went back to sleep right after their bottles woke up at nine another nap at 11 woke up at 2 another nap at 4 and so on but the doctor told me they were sleeping to much and they should ONLY take naps at nine and one so thats the reason for the nap schedule and sometimes they do nap at 4. One more question....getting them to sleep isnt bad even when i did CIO it only took like i said 10-30mins and they were asleep. But what should i do when they wake up at night...ignore?....pick up?...if they are eating at like 5 wont they be hungry at night? This was a question i also asked the doctor and she said "we will worry about that later" but thats the issue lol. And also GREAT idea of adding more to the bottles cause they wont take too much more but i bet i can get atleast another ounce at every feeding i never thought of that. Also i will be looking into the night terrors because thats exactly what it seems like.

 

I dont think they were napping too often. If they are napping that often, then it's because they need too. You may be having issues at night because they are overtired. Yes it is your doctor, they they are YOUR babies and you know them best. If that previous schedule was working for you, I would go back to it.

As for night wakings, I always go in once to make sure all is ok, if they are fine, I leave. I dont pick them up because then I am done for and have to take them downstairs for a bit. Personally I would leave them especially if they are waking out of habit

 

I also suggest that you put them to bed when they are rubbing their eyes - make their new bedtime around 630pm-7am. At that age my kids were doing a few mini naps during the day (45min each), and then bedtime was at 530pm! And they used to sleep until 6am! Sounds like they might be overtired and if you get them to bed earlier, it might help with some of the night waking. Usually when kids are overtired they have disrupted sleep.

Good luck and you will get sleep again soon! Hang in there.

 

Wowza - can you find a polite way to ask your doc if she's on crack? Or at the very least ask if there's a reason she suggested what she did specifically for your two? It really doesn't make a ton of sense.

Have you read Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child? It not, I would really recommend it - I think you'll find a lot of useful information in there for your situation (it's a big book but you don't have to read all of it - it's divided by age range so you'd just need to read through the sections that apply to your boys' age).

Others have already said it, but I just want to add in my agreement that I think they're over tired. Over tired babies' (well, over tired people's) bodies start to produce adrenaline because they assume there's some danger requiring it to stay awake (saber tooth tiger attack, for example) so then it becomes difficult to a) fall asleep & b) stay asleep. With adults, it takes a fair bit of awake time to reach that point, but with young babies & toddlers it doesn't take long at all. In fact, at 6 months old it's the rare baby who can tolerate consistent awake windows of more than 2 - 3 hours.

Again, just wanted to reiterate some of the points others have already made:
- an early bedtime will most likely make a huge difference! Definitely get them into bed when they start to show sleepy signs (rubbing eyes, the slow blink, long stares, tugging on ears, fussy behaviour, etc).
- sit down with your partner & decide how you are going to deal with night wakings - come up with a simple plan that you can both follow & stick with for a week or more (when they wake will you: let them CIO until they fall back to sleep on their own? cry for a set interval of time & then go in & check? use other soothing methods like pick up, put down, patting, shushing, rocking? There's no right or wrong way to do it - it's just about picking something that you can be consistent with) before reevaluating whether it's helping or not.
- for napping, I wouldn't go by the clock right now, I would go by their sleepy signs. When you see that they're starting to get tired (even if they've only been awake for an hour or so), get them back into bed. They may end up having 3 - 4 naps a day for a while but will eventually drop to a consistent 3 or possibly even to 2 again.
- create a consistent nap & bedtime routine. At 6 months old, it doesn't need to be long or complex, but if you repeat the same couple of things every time before they're put into bed it kind of becomes a reflex for them ("Oh mommy's singing the bedtime song. That means I'm going to sleep now"). For my girls, hearing "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" was like a Pavlov's dog trigger for falling asleep.
- if you think they still need a middle of the night bottle (which is quite likely at 6 months old) try a dreamfeed about 3 - 4 hours after they've gone to bed. Prep their bottles & feed them in their sleep (or try to wake them as minimally as possible) then straight back into bed. The idea is to get that feeding in while disrupting their sleep as little as possible so that to them it feels almost like they've slept right through the night.
- I expect that as they start to recoup some of their lost sleep, that 5:00am morning wake up will gradually lengthen to later in the morning. In the meantime, I would try & treat it as a middle of the night waking rather than their morning wake up & see how it goes.
- at some point, you'll definitely want to work at getting them to fall asleep where they're going to be for their nap/nighttime. Falling asleep in one place & waking up somewhere else is very, very disorienting. It would be like falling asleep in your cozy, warm bed with your pillow & comforter and waking up on the lawn in the snow. Big shock to the system.
- last, but not least, if you feel like some added individualized support would be helpful, you could look into hiring a sleep consultant (we used Dawnn Whitaker with our girls & it was the best money we ever spent! Here's her website).

Good luck! Let us know how things go.

 

I agree with everyone else that the problem sounds like they're overtired. I would have them in bed at 6 pm to avoid going through the witching hour (when they're fussy and rubbing their eyes) and I would bet that even that will start turning your night times around. They might still wake up to feed once or twice for some time to come, but you'll be able to manage it better. And make sure you're feeding both at the same time so you can get back to bed in between!

Try some things out and then check back and update us. I hope things go better for you soon!

 

I second HSHHC. Your babies should sleep as much as they need to. As for night wakings, work on getting them to go to sleep first and then worry about the night wakings. At 6 months, it is reasonable that they may need to wake at 3am for a bottle. However, it was my experience with my first that when we got the bedtime straightened out, the middle of the night waking went away.

I also want to add that you can comfort them to sleep for as long as you want to. We did bottles up until 9 months, then slowly switched to putting them down drowsy without the bottle. We did the 5 min fussing drill at 18 months because Henry was stalling for bed time. He also wasn't crying during the 5 minutes but letting his displeasure known, loudly.

 

I agree with you. We never did a third nap because they were in bed so early though. So I'd go with a rough equivalent of your schedule without the third nap and with an early bedtime (6:00ish). At that age, mine slept from 6:00 to 6:00 or 7:00 and napped for 1.5-2 hours at around 9 and around 1:00. They'd wake up from second nap around 2:30 or 3 (it was usually longer than morning) and go to bed at 5:30 or 6:00.

 

I would still feed them once a night if they woke. For me, I never got the dreamfeed. I don't understand waking a sleeping baby to feed it if it doesn't wake itself. But people swear by it. We gave the last bottle in their room with white noise, lights off, jammies on. Then put them to bed, read a book and sang a song. If they woke up, I'd put pacis back in and soothe, but I wouldn't give a bottle more than once a night. Honestly, until 7 months, I'd put DS in the swing for night wakings. We did CIO at 7 months for night wakings and bedtime.

 

You've gotten lots of great advice! I also liked the HSHHC book. At 6 months, my twins could only stay awake 2 hours tops before needing to sleep again and we still did three naps a day until around 7 months.

I also second the bedtime and naptime routines. We do baths, milk, lotion massage, pjs, sleep sacks, rocking with stories. It's amazing how my twins can seem so alert and active and once we do the bedtime routine, they're sleepy and ready for bed. And now at 15 months, once we put the sleep sacks on the boys, they head right for the stairs to go to their room.

 

I would try a different bed all together. My girls did not like the pack and play. I did same thing u did get them asleep then move to pack and play and 15 minutes later they would be screeming. Moved the crib in our room and it was night and day difference.