Not sleeping, not napping, ready to give up nursing

I'm about done. My babies are 4 months old, and I'm going on about 6 hours of sleep in the past three days, and about half of that was sitting up.

Our pediatrician told us to stop swaddling like, 2 months ago, and well, we're still doing it. They flail so much they smack themselves awake. Even swaddled at night, Tycho won't go for longer than 40 minutes. I'll pick him up and comfort him, put him back down, repeat 5 minutes later. I used to just pick him up and nurse him to sleep, but that got to the point where he wanted to nurse all. night. long. I don't really want to cosleep, and hubby's so scared of hurting him that if I bring him into bed, he leaves for the couch.
So I started only nursing them at two hour intervals at night - in between, I only rock or sing or whatever to comfort them. Neither one of them will take a pacifier. Tycho will rarely take a bottle.

The boys will only nap for 20 minutes at a time... if I'm bouncing them in their bouncy chairs the whole while, so it's not like I can sleep then, let alone do the 80 loads of dishes that've piled up.

Breastfeeding was so. important. to me, but I can't help but feel like it's leading to a lot of our problems. Maybe it's a growth spurt. I dunno, I feel like I write this same post about once a month.

Maybe my milk's drying up. Today Tycho just cried at me latched on and all. (And then napped for 10 minutes - maybe just exhausted.) Sometimes Kepler does that at night before we finally give him a bottle, and then he sucks down like 5 ounces. Maybe I'm starving them.

I'm at about my wit's end, but I don't want to destroy our nursing relationship only to find it doesn't help in the end. I know I can't pump enough for them, since I don't respond well to the pump, and so if I pumped and bottle fed my supply would slowly just go away.

Maybe this post should go in the BFing forum, but really it's about sleep, so I put it here in the first year's forum.

If this post sounds disjointed, it's because I don't have two brain cells to rub together to write something coherent. Right now I'm dreaming of just getting in the car and driving away away away.

 

I'm so sorry you are exhausted and having a difficult time. I give you serious props for BFing so long! Mine are 6 weeks old, I only lasted a week nursing and then pumped until this weekend...now I've stopped that too as its too difficult for me.

I don't have any experience at this age, but would recommend reading Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Childe by Marc Weissbluth. He's the worlds expert on infants and childrens sleep. Hopefully there might be something in the book that would help you...

Good luck.

 

There's a lot of moms here who dumped the pump and haven't looked back. I had a hard time with it at first--mommy guilt--but now I realize that it was a wise decision. To be a good mom, you need to get some sleep so you can function and meet ALL their needs.

 

I don't have advise about BF but just wanted to tell you that we swaddled until 7 months and could not have survived otherwise. They simply would not sleep without being swaddled tight. So I think if it works for you, keep on swaddling, no harm in that.

 

What she said!! Don't beat yourself up if you decide to give up breastfeeding. You have nursed FAR longer than I was able to and should be darn proud of yourself! :Clap:

 

I swaddled until 4 months and then my girls started flipping onto their bellies, so I transitioned them into their cribs and they slept on their bellies (I couldn't prevent it) and so they didn't flail. Continue to swaddle as long as it works! It's not like your LOs will be 18 and needing to be swaddled they will let you know when they don't need it anymore.

As for the breastfeeding, I am weaning right now. We are now at one nursing session a day and four 5oz bottles. Breastfeeding was never something I truly enjoyed. It always seemed like I was nursing or pumping to maintain my supply. At 6 months, I started to play with the idea of being done and after dropping most of the nursing sessions and exchanging them for bottles, my schedule is so much better. The girls have more concrete naptimes and consistently sleep 10-12 hours at night. If you aren't happy breastfeeding, I would stop! I still cuddle with my girls everytime I give them a bottle and we have snuggle time while reading throughout the day as well. I love the morning nursing session too. You nursed through the majority of flu season which I guarantee benefited your LOs.

Also, sometimes breastfed babies won't take pacifiers. My girls suck their thumbs now after giving up the swaddle and that helps with the sleep too.

 

:hug: :bow2: You've given them 4 months of your milk and you don't want to stop. Honestly, you are right, this is all about sleep. I don't think it has much to do with breastfeeding. Are they having 6-8 wet/pooopy diapers a day? Are they gaining weight? They tend to drink more from a bottle because it's easier. (I assume you are using slow flow nipples when you do offer a bottle.) IF you do decide to quit breastfeeding, you've given them a great start. I am a firm believer that no matter what you feed them, they will sleep when they sleep. Breastmilk is easier to digest and is easier on tummies.
At four months, it is really too young to CIO. During the night, they do not need to eat every two hours unless they aren't gaining weight. Is there any possibility that your husband can go down to them one of the times? I'm just saying they know your buttons. They want you. They know you will rock them and feed them and such. Perhaps if you hubby would help out for a few nights in a row, they'd learn. (That is how we finally weaned at night in this household, but the twins were much older.)
:hug: I had twins that I was up 4-5 times every night with. I assume that when you are up with them during the night, the lights are low and you are not stimulating them at all. No eye contact etc. Low voice. Do you think they may not know it is night and are confused? I'm just talking here, hoping you recognize something that might help. :hug: Good luck. I wish I could help. I know how it was when I would get a good night sleep.

Oh, and don't feel any guilt about still swaddling. You know what is best for your babies and if they flail, they wake themselves up and no one is happy. Keep on swaddling!

 

:hug: The first few months are so tough. I am so sorry that you are having such a rough time. It is very common. If you arent ready to give up nursing, then dont. Have you tried a Lactation Consultant to see if you are having issues with your milk? Do you have anyone that can come over and give you a hand? Does your DH help you at night even when he goes to the couch?

I had a very hard time nursing my boys. They were born premature and it was difficult to get them to take to the breast because of their latch and because they were used to a bottle. So, I ended up pumping for them until we started having reflux issues and milk allergy issues. Then I went to formula. There is nothing wrong with a bottle. It was huge relief for me to finally make a decision and stick to it. But I exhausted all of my efforts with BFing since it was something I really wanted to do so I knew that I gave it my all.

I think at 4 months, there is nothing wrong with swaddling. Have you read Weisbluth's book, "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child?" That will give you some great tips and teach you to look for some sleepy cues to get them down earlier. What time do you put them down for a morning nap? At 4 months the morning nap was just coming into play for us. They had to go down no more than 1 hour and 15 minutes after they got up in the morning or they were overtired and overstimulated and it was a bear to get them down. So maybe that is something to try.

I would also look into Happiest Baby on the Block. Either the DVD or the book. That will teach you some soothing techniques that might help you with the fussiness. How about some white noise in the nursery??

Hang in there. You can do this. :grouphug:

ETA: I totally understand how exhausted you are. Mine didnt STTN until they were 9 months. At 4 months we were getting up at least every 3 hours. I know your pain.

 

I don't have any advice to add. But just wanted to send out a big hug :hug:

 

I'm just going to ditto Jackie and Rachel because they basically said what I was thinking! :hug:

KUDO'S to you for sticking out the breastfeeding so long! I struggled for 6 weeks, but I just couldn't make enough milk to keep my dd satisfied! When she started her 6 wk growth spurt and was wanting to nurse every 1.5 hrs (for 45 mins at a time) I knew I was done! It was such a difficult decision and I cried for days afterwards, but in the end I realized that a happy, healthy mommy makes for happy, healthy babies! And I just wasn't happy being stuck to a baby nearly 24/7! :hug:

 

We did extended swaddling (till 11mos :blush: ) - never could have survived without it! As for nursing - its definitely hard work but they are things you can do for yourself and the ladies on the b/f'ing board probably have some great advice. And your right, it is hard to sleep whenever they do, I hated when people would tell me that. Do you have any help? My mom would come over and just hold babies so I could sleep for an hour or take a shower, or she would wash dishes. I think looking back I would have paid for mommy's helper or a night nurse even for just one day/night a week.
Hang in there!! You are doing an amazing job and no one can fault you for that!

 

We also still swaddle the girls at 5.5 months and I don't foresee stopping any time soon. We tried about a week ago to stop swaddling and transition to sleep sacks but it was a nightmare. After 45 minutes of crying and no sleeping we swaddled them and within 5 minutes they were asleep. So I second the "if it works, swaddle" advice!!

 

Our babies are the exact same age, I am in no way an expert but I will tell you what I have been doing. I didn't bf at all, so I have no advice there but formula feeding is so much easier for me. I know it is a bad habit to get into, but I put mine to sleep in their carseats in their cribs. I put a thick warm blanket in it so they are nice and snug. They sleep fantastic in them. I am sure I will be posting in 2 months on how to get them out of the carseats and into the cribs-haha, but for now it is working and we are sleeping!!! Hang in there, it will get better.

 

For me, stopping breastfeeding was the best decision I could have made. The constant feed (and supplement because I couldn't get enough), pump, repeat cycle was just too much and everyone in our house was happier when I finally decided that mine were going to be formula fed babies and that was just fine! However,I am not advocating stopping - just that if that is what you need to do then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The feeding method was not what made the difference at our house, though. It was implementing a very consistent nighttime routine at about two months that consisted of bath, swaddle, bed in a dark room with no verbal stimulation from us, and a sound machine. Sticking to that routine every night helped the babies understand that it was bedtime and time to sleep in longer intervals and it really took very little time for them to get so good at putting themselves to sleep and staying asleep until their one overnight wake-up that swaddling wasn't even necessary. We moved to sleep blankets at about 4 months and shortly thereafter ditched those too.

 

Just wanted to say that I have been EXACTLY where you are right now. I will say from experience that it is common to doubt yourself from a breastfeeding standpoint because it is not measurable. I tried everything and found that mine didn't sleep even if I switched to bottles/formula, so I just kept breastfeeding. Now they are 8 months old and still nursing strong. What made the difference for me was sleep training. My babies were very fussy/colicky early on and we never got true naps for the first 4 months. I was always amazed with how little my newborns slept and the fact that during the day we could never. put. them. down! I think your ped is crazy for telling you to stop swaddling! If swaddling works even a little than keep doing it. We did it till ours started flipping in the bed.

Anyway, everyone has their own opinions on sleep training, but I read Weissbluth's book cover to cover and loved it. He is a pediatric sleep specialist and as a medical professional myself I appreciated that he explained the science of infant sleep. He really knows what he is talking about. Anyway, he spends time talking about the fussy baby and the fact that it is harder to find their tired cues in time before they get overtired. He mentions 12-16 weeks after the due date as the time when it is ok to start training. A lot of people say this is too young but in my experience if babies are older then you throw separation anxiety, etc into the mix and they have had longer to learn bad habits. We started sleep training with the naps because this was less extreme than at night and as I mentioned, we weren't napping so by the end of the day they were overtired. We would put them down 60-90 min after they woke, swaddled, music playing, and let them cry up to an hour. Usually the crying only lasted 10-15 min and then they would nap. If they cried through the hour, then we would get them up, comfort them, feed them, and try again at the next nap "window". This worked like a charm and they were napping 45-90 min within a week. As Weissbluth says, sleep begets sleep and once they were napping they were sleeping longer at night. A few weeks later we did sleep training at night and they were sleeping through with just one waking for a feeding within a week.

As I said, this has been life changing for us because even when they did wake at night for a feeding since they knew how to put themselves back to sleep I could feed them and lay them back down instead of spending an hour rocking each one to sleep!

Good luck with everything, sleep is the hardest problem to conquer!

 

Don't be mad at yourself if you stop breastfeeding!! It's not the end of the world. You've given them 4 months of it and that is much more than a lot of people can handle. I only lasted a month and was luck to last that long. My pedi even encouraged that if it was really hard on me to do it then not to! You need your rest in order to take care of 2 babies.

 

Eugh, I don't think we can CIO. The other day, I had them sleeping in bouncers and thought I could slip off for a shower. Nope. When I got out (just 10 minutes later!!), the screaming was so awful that they were just unconsolable for two more hours. Wouldn't nurse, even. Just cried and cried and cried while I held them. At this point it just makes them even less likely to settle down.

We made a plan for evenings, though. We started a night routine - I bath babies while hubby reads to the other. (We had only been doing like bi-weekly baths, because Kepler HATES them. But I think the routine will be good.) Then we give them bottles with oatmeal cereal. Settle them down and swaddle 'em up. Noise machine and glow-worm. Then we've blocked out times when I'll assume they're hungry, and aside from that we'll go to them and re-settle them, but not bring them to bed to nurse. Does that make sense? Like if it's around 12, 3, or 6, we nurse. Otherwise, they just need help through a sleep cycle.

This is tiring, but I think they're already getting the hang of it. Plus it'll help them learn to be soothed without nursing, which is hubby's biggest complaint - he hates when they go after his nipples in the middle of the night!!

Through the night I'd rather nurse for two reasons - keeps my supply up and it's much easier than bottles. I don't mind the 2-3 hour intervals so long as it doesn't turn into baby staying in bed needing to be latched on all night long.

For naps, I'm really really trying out the 2-3-4 hours I've seen here. So up at 8, nap/quiet time at 10. Up for a bit longer, then a nap usually around 2 or 3. Right now, that means I nurse them, then put them in their bouncers and don't look at them while I rock them. Usually they doze off for a *bit* I still can't get up and do stuff or they startle, but they're getting sleep, and that seems to help out in the evenings. We'll work on this. One thing at a time.

 

Glad to hear things are going better! We still swaddle ours at 6 months and I too have been thinking about weaning. Lately I have added 1 more bottle to the routine and at this age it seems a bit easier than nursing finally so I may just make the (almost complete) switch. I am like you though, I like to keep the nighttime sessions. A bedtime routine is a great thing, keep working on it momma sounds like you are doing great!

 

I am so sorry, I can't even imagine having to cope on so little sleep, I am not an expert in anyway, but our kids are the same age roughly and I breast feed them I can tell you what we do and have done from the get go that has so far worked really well. Don't get me wrong we sometimes have some bad nights too.

I nurse freely all day and between 6-7pm my husband gives them a bottle of formula and I go directly to bed, I don't bother to pump or anything... My husband puts them in their pj's and a new diaper and puts them in the crib and gets them to sleep. My Edvin usually wakes for his first feeding between 11.00pm to midnight, that means that I have gotten at least 4-6 hours of sleep :lazy: from there on I am nursing about every 2 hours, but that first block of sleep really is a life saver. As for supply the kids eat it up during the day and since they are use to breast milk which is much thinner and lighter in their tummies, that evening bottle really puts them in what we joke as a "thanksgiving turkey meal" where your too stuffed to move.
When I gave birth in the hospital here, I was fortunate enough to have a midwife come in and help me learn to nurse, she was in her 60's and about to retire, she was great, she told me you give papa the job with the formula and you sleep, you'll feel better, and your body will be able to cope better with the job of producing milk for two. If I hadn't met her I think I would have had to give up before leaving the hospital. She came to us on the third day and I had only powernapped since giving birth to them and was an emotional basket of tears.

Well I know what worked for us may not be the answer for anyone else but if it is I just had to share. Lots of hugs.... mom your a superhero to have made it this far. Lots of hugs and more hugs