night wakings - wwyd?

I know I've posted about this before, but I'm really going nuts. DD used to be such a great night sleeper - for a long time she'd go down at 7, nurse at 4 or 5, then back down til about 7. Then she was totally STTN.

Fast forward to the present day: most nights she wakes up crying and nurses around 10, 1, and 5, give or take. UGH. And that's after nursing on demand all day, 1 "meal" of solids in the late afternoon, and 8 oz bottle right before bed. (We give bottles at bedtime just to give my body a little break, I'm so tired at the end of the day.) Sometimes a little nursing after the bottle too.

This is crazy. But I really don't know what to do. It would break my heart to let her CIO in the middle of the night. (No problem doing it before naps during the day, but that just feels different to me.) Since I almost EBF, I'm also paranoid about ever denying them a chance to feed - I mean, what if they really need it? What if they didn't get enough during the day? Doesn't help that she's a skinny baby either. She's very healthy and gaining well, and she obviously just takes after her mama (I'm really long and lean too), but she still looks skinny compared to lots of babies. It would probably be easier for me to try to train a little butterball out of night feedings, but that she ain't. And though I'm not enjoying getting up 3x/night, I'm actually functioning pretty well & not exhausted during the day. So part of me just wants to wait it out.

OTOH, I don't want her to develop lousy sleep habits. She doesn't nurse to sleep, and she's awake when I put her back down, but she may be getting into a really bad habit of needing to nurse to relax enough to put herself back to sleep...

Really feel ****ed if I do, ****ed if I don't. If I keep nursing her whenever she wakes up, I may be giving her bad sleep habits; if I make her CIO, I'm a terrible parent, because I should just cherish these precious fleeting moments (or so all the AP stuff says)...

OK, end of mom angst rant! I welcome any advice...

 

This is such a difficult thing to deal with. I remember debating this with my son and finally decided for me that Iwould be a better mom in the morning if I was getting decent sleep. It took 3 days and he was fine. He is an amazing sleeper now and I think much of it is due to how we "trained him". I recently started doing this with my girls for some of the same reasons you mentioned but in addition, I have to parent my almost three year old and just can't do that with as much patience as I need to when I have been up 4 or more times with babies who are able to and have slept through the night.

It really depends on what you believe. If you are on the AP side of things, CIO won't work for you and that is your choice. I am not on the ap side. I can look at my son and know that CIO had no ill effects. He is happy, well adjusted, bonded to his momma , and a wonderful sleeper so I know I won't be hurting my girls in any way. I also figure if they don't get enough food , there is plenty of milk waiting for them in the morning after a night of not eating and that they will survive and they have. Now, that doesn't mean I like that I had to let them cry. I find it awful. It makes me so sad but I keep reminding myself that they are in a bad habit that I have allowed and to know that if they are really ready to go through the night then in a few days that will be apparent b/c they will be doing it again (and they are).

I am hoping this made some sense. I would let them cry. With mine, the first night I decided anything before 5 I would ignore and have done that. Now they wake at 5, eat and go back to sleep (they had been doing this a month or so ago so I knew it was possible). I believe as a parent, you need to decide what you are comfortable with, not what your neighbor, mother, sister or online friend is comfortable with. Remember that babies don't hold grudges and you will feel such a relief when you go to her in the morning and are greeted with a big ol' smile even though you let her cry!

 

I didn't cut Catherine off at night until 9 months. At that point I started sending DH in when she would wake up and it only took about 4 nights for her to stop waking. Until 9 months I think there could be an actual need to eat at night, after that I think it's just for comfort. 3x a night seems like a lot though! I would try to send DH in and see what happens...

 

How long is she nursing each time she wakes up at night? Can you tell if she's really hungry, or if it's a comfort thing? If she's getting a full 8 oz. right before bed, she's probably not really starving at night, unless she's really just not getting enough throughout the day....maybe she's ready for a second meal of solids?

If you're not comfortable with CIO, what if you went in and picked her up, but didn't nurse her? Is there anything else that could soothe her -- a paci, bear or blankie, Fisher Price soother, something like that? Play a lullaby CD?

I've even heard of people offering a bottle of water at night wakings -- the theory is that babies eventually decide it's not worth it, and stop waking up. I haven't tried it, but it does make some sense to me.

Good luck! I am really not an AP person (you probably already guessed that, LOL) -- but true CIO makes me uncomfortable, too. I have let mine fuss for up to 15 minutes, but I can't stand it for longer than that....

 

I'll tell you what I did...

Mine were having one night feed (except during growth spurts) for a loooooong time (9 weeks - 9 months). Suddenly, they were waking 2-3 times a night. They weren't nursing back to sleep -- just taking a 7-minute feed and asking to go back to bed; settling back to sleep with ease. I wasn't sure what to do but I decided that they were acting like they needed the calories rather than seeking comfort/playtime with me since it was all business. They're also skinnies and I saw it as a way to get as much into them as possible.

So, I kept feeding them when they woke. Days turned to weeks. I thought perhaps it was teeth and I tried giving pain meds at bedtime. No difference. I sent DH in a couple of times but they'd just cry and cry until I came in or he'd get them back to sleep and they'd be up minutes later crying again. So, I just fed them and then back to sleep they went. At 11 months, the extra wakings stopped as abruptly as they'd started and they quit waking for the one night feed at the same time. It is my belief that this was when they no longer needed those extra feedings.

They were great sleepers before all of this and they returned to their great sleep habits so I didn't mess them up by waiting it out.

It's a tough call to make. I hope you find some peace with whatever choice you make.

 

Thanks for all the feedback!

QUOTE
How long is she nursing each time she wakes up at night? Can you tell if she's really hungry, or if it's a comfort thing? If she's getting a full 8 oz. right before bed, she's probably not really starving at night, unless she's really just not getting enough throughout the day....maybe she's ready for a second meal of solids?

If you're not comfortable with CIO, what if you went in and picked her up, but didn't nurse her? Is there anything else that could soothe her -- a paci, bear or blankie, Fisher Price soother, something like that? Play a lullaby CD?

I've even heard of people offering a bottle of water at night wakings -- the theory is that babies eventually decide it's not worth it, and stop waking up. I haven't tried it, but it does make some sense to me.

Good luck! I am really not an AP person (you probably already guessed that, LOL) -- but true CIO makes me uncomfortable, too. I have let mine fuss for up to 15 minutes, but I can't stand it for longer than that....


It really is mostly business at night. If she gets up around 10/10:30, that one is total BS (she'll just nurse briefly and then go back down), but otherwise she really eats. I wake up really full, and she empties me out on both sides, and doesn't try to turn it into playtime - she'll babble while I change her diaper, but that's it, then she gets right back to "work."

I don't think she's ready for more solids just yet. It's taken a long time just to get them happy with one meal of solids per day (and even then they're not always interested), and they seem satisfied for a good amount of time after nursing during the day.

Thought about trying other ways of soothing her back to sleep, but I just have a hunch they wouldn't work - at least if I nurse her I KNOW she'll go back down, and get more good milk too. Also thought about having DH give her a bottle, but whenever he's done that before she still wants to nurse afterward anyway. She knows what she wants... Our current system is that DH is in charge of DS at night (who usually only gets 1 night feeding, maybe too, and is happy enough with the bottle) and I handle DD, since she just wants to nurse.

I'm actually not an AP person either - IMO some parts of it like demand feeding are just common sense, and the rest can verge on nonsense or is just not to my taste. But they sure know how to lay a guilt trip! I made the mistake of checking Kellymom.com for ideas on this, and the relevant pages pretty much said to cherish these precious moments of quiet nighttime cuddling, because they won't last forever (and if you don't, then you are Hitler, go vivisect a puppy if that's your idea of fun). (Don't get me wrong, Kellymom is totally awesome for scientifically based, nuts-and-bolts info on BFing, but when it comes to parenting they're, um, a little slanted.) But of course even though I make fun of it it still makes me feel bad.

QUOTE
Mine were having one night feed (except during growth spurts) for a loooooong time (9 weeks - 9 months). Suddenly, they were waking 2-3 times a night. They weren't nursing back to sleep -- just taking a 7-minute feed and asking to go back to bed; settling back to sleep with ease. I wasn't sure what to do but I decided that they were acting like they needed the calories rather than seeking comfort/playtime with me since it was all business. They're also skinnies and I saw it as a way to get as much into them as possible.

So, I kept feeding them when they woke. Days turned to weeks. I thought perhaps it was teeth and I tried giving pain meds at bedtime. No difference. I sent DH in a couple of times but they'd just cry and cry until I came in or he'd get them back to sleep and they'd be up minutes later crying again. So, I just fed them and then back to sleep they went. At 11 months, the extra wakings stopped as abruptly as they'd started and they quit waking for the one night feed at the same time. It is my belief that this was when they no longer needed those extra feedings.

They were great sleepers before all of this and they returned to their great sleep habits so I didn't mess them up by waiting it out.


Thank you for sharing this! Your story actually sounds like what's going on here. DD is really acting hungry. And she is such a string bean. She may have a really high metabolism like I do - even when I'm not BFing twins, I eat and eat and eat. It's really encouraging to hear that yours went back to being great sleepers again.

For now I think instead of CIO I'll "WIO" - wait it out. For now, I'm doing ok even with such fragmented sleep. I'll give it a bit longer and see what happens... This too shall pass? (I hope?)

 

I could have typed your post, word for word. I agree with Debid; mine suddenly have stopped the 2-3x waking and now are down to one. Not bad. I can tell they're hungry, and I'm trying to give them as much as possible.

good luck; it will get easier!

 

totally different direction here but have you thought about adding Breakfast to their day. Maybe this would stabilize eating times. Our babies are about the same age and when things started to go crazy with sleep I introduced another solid meal and everything fell back into place.
Just a thought...

 

Mine started this at around 4 1/2 months, they were great sleepers before that (well for about a month). They would only get up once at 3 or 4, nurse and go back to sleep until 7 or 8. Then, like I said at around 4 1/2 months they started giving me no more than a 4 hour stretch. I was up constantly because I wasn't waking the other one up to eat and without fail he would be up within a half hour of his brother. At first I felt that they were going through a growth spurt and needed the extra feedings so I just rolled with it. Well after being completely burned out I started trying to just soothe them back to sleep and it started after about a week to work. We were down to 11 and 4. Well then they started waking again, fussing for a couple minutes and going back to sleep. We are in a one bedroom loft so IMO it was easier to just nurse them back to sleep instead of letting them cry and keeping me up. So in a last ditch effort to try and fix this I resorted to trying pacifiers again which they hadn't used in 4 months! I bought the MAM ones and they love them for some reason. So for two weeks I would just stick a paci in everytime they would wake up between 7and4. At 4 am I would feed them and they would stay asleep until 7 or 8.We are down to 1 feeding a night at 3 or 4. Anyway the whole paci thing may not apply or work for you but my point is that you never know, something might work. I didn't realize how sleep deprived I was until I started getting some sleep and then I realized how much more energy I was capable of having. I had them at the pedi last week and they are steadily moving up the growth chart, they were a little over 17lbs (5.15 at birth). I know how hard it is though and I think I remember reading in one of your posts that you are kind of in the same boat as far as living arangements. I often wonder if they just sense me being so close and that's why they wake up. We are moving next week :banana: and I am so excited to have a little more room. I would think that they are getting what they need if you are nursing on demand during the day and you are full at night after only a few hours. It won't hurt anything to try and soothe back to sleep, she'll let you know if she's REALLY hungry.

 

Ours were very similar at that age. Like a pp I also waited until they were 9 months of age and then sent DH in to soothe them back to sleep (humming and stroking their back). We took it very gradually, firstly tackling the middle waking, then the earlier one and never really doing much about the later one so long as it was after 5 am (big mistake as they still wake v v v early only now don't go back to sleep).

They adapted very fast but still needed us to go in most nights to soothe them back to sleep once (or twice). Then at 14 months we did CIO on the night wakings (they'd got a bit out of hand following an illness and Tal had taken to screaming for 1 1/2 hours despite our soothing efforts). We did it the Ferber way (1 min, 2 min, 5 min etc). I was dreading doing it as I really worried about 'damaging' our daughters. But after 1 night (and a total of 45 mins crying), Tal stopped nightwaking completely). Maia took a couple of days longer. They were more clingy for a day or two but otherwise really really fine. And happier because they were sleeping better.

HTH
lisa

 

I'm in a similar spot with our kids. They both go down around 7, wake up at 11:00 to eat and again sometime between 3-5 to eat again. I'm really ready to get them through the night (like 11-7) but I always worry about my skinny boy and just decide I'll feed him. From what I've read they are ready to go through the night at 9 months for sure...so I think I'll just hold out till then and then let them CIO. They eat a ton during the day (we still nurse every three hours and they have three solid meals) so I know they're not starving. I would agree with the PP about getting another solid meal in there somewhere. Once you find something they like they should be pretty willing to gobble it up! I'd start trying different things in the solids department to add to your day (not replace any feeding). That might ease the transition from always nursing. Just a thought. Of course I have no idea what I'm talking about since I struggle with this too! And BTW--your assessment of Kellymom was hilarious!

Reyna

 

FWIW, I did CIO at 10.5 months and it was one of the best things I EVER did since having them Honestly!!!
It took 3 nights and we haven't looked back since! If you offer nursing enough during the day they will always get enough, no need to worry about starving them, lol. If you want any further info let me know.

HTH

 

HI,

My kids' sleep got disrupted around 8-9 mos, cause there was so much going on developmentally -- It drove us crazy, but it was so quick to just feed them and put them back to sleep that I caved and did it. Since it was such a disruptive time for them (separation anxiety stage, crawling, ability to move away from the "nest" mom) I didn't want to CIO at this time. We did do a modified form of CIO at 11.5 mos -- I essentially just stopped feeding them at night and chose to comfort them in their cribs instead. It worked in no time (but they were ready) and it coincided with my weaning plan.

The main issue with full CIO at night is that you really need to nurse once during the night to keep your milk supply up... once the middle of the night feedings are gone, you'll find that your supply starts waning some.

As for long term affects of CIO -- I doubt that anyone can tell these until years later (at least that's what the research suggests) - it has to do with fundamental trust and safety issues in a kid. To this day, we always get a kid if they are distress crying during the night. If they are up and fussy, but not overwhelmed with stress... then we are likely to let them go 5-10 mins to see if they'll settle themselves.

Good luck.. I know it's frustrating. I was sooo happy when my kids started sleeping more consistently at night. it really does change your world.

Teri

 

QUOTE(momalicious @ Dec 4 2007, 07:11 PM) [snapback]521014[/snapback]
The main issue with full CIO at night is that you really need to nurse once during the night to keep your milk supply up... once the middle of the night feedings are gone, you'll find that your supply starts waning some.


I disagree with this, my supply stayed fine, I nursed on demand until they were around 14 months old and I stopped feeding from 6pm-6am at ~11 months.