milk spinoff: whole vs soy

My mother-in-law insists that soy is better for the girls but I disagree. I've read that whole milk contains the fat they need for brain development. The soy milk (the Silk brank I think) only had half the fat per cup that the whole milk did.

Anyone know more? I will ask the pedi at their 12 month check-up next week, but MIL will be here tomorrow! <_<

 

unless you have dairy/milk allergies or intolerances, whole milk is definitely better, hands down.

 

does anyone feed goat's milk?

 

I've actually read a ton of scary stuff about Soy and it's affects on girls hormones (estrogen is in soy). so that scares me and I will defiitley stick with whole. Plus it has more fat that they need!

 

There's nothing wrong with soy milk, but if you do give it, you want to make sure they're getting the fat they need from other sources. Whole milk is easier that way, since it already has the fat.

 

At a year old I would vote for whole milk hands down. Unless they had some type of dairy allergy. At a year old they do still need the whole milk for the fat content.

We just had our 2 year appt and the pedi just now suggested to switch to 2% or skim since they are older. I give Vanilla Soy ocassionally but I tend to vere away of it b/c of the bad press it sometimes gets.

 

Tell MIL thank you for your concern and input and that you will take that under advisement! and do just that....put it under...your kids, your way!

 

QUOTE(fuchsiagroan @ May 30 2008, 01:20 PM) [snapback]801654[/snapback]
There's nothing wrong with soy milk, but if you do give it, you want to make sure they're getting the fat they need from other sources. Whole milk is easier that way, since it already has the fat.


I switched mine to soy at 2, not 1. Soy does have phytoestrogens. That means plant estrogens. Since humans are not plants, they don't affect us. Soy products can no longer claim, for instance, to regulate menopause. We are susceptible to mammalian estrogens (such as what they inject cows with to keep them producing milk). For this reason I would recommend organic whole milk if you can afford it.

 

Both are over rated, imho. Soy milk is really soy juice and we don't need juices of any kind. Cow's milk is meant for baby cows, which my children are not. I'm not sure why people think we have to drink some type of white milky substance at all. Just my two cents.

 

QUOTE(Username @ May 31 2008, 09:28 AM) [snapback]802689[/snapback]
Both are over rated, imho. Soy milk is really soy juice and we don't need juices of any kind. Cow's milk is meant for baby cows, which my children are not. I'm not sure why people think we have to drink some type of white milky substance at all. Just my two cents.


Because it's a convenient way to deliver calcium after weaning from the breast or bottle. I did nurse for 27 months, but my girls are 5.5 now. Since they don't particularly care for sardines, I give them soy milk.

 

QUOTE(rubyturquoise @ May 31 2008, 11:33 AM) [snapback]802755[/snapback]
Because it's a convenient way to deliver calcium after weaning from the breast or bottle. I did nurse for 27 months, but my girls are 5.5 now. Since they don't particularly care for sardines, I give them soy milk.


But don't they eat beans, sesame (seeds or tahini), soy products like tofu, nuts, cheeses, yogurt, greens. etc. I'm not anti-cow's milk, it just seems that people think they have to wean from bm to something.

http://www.soystache.com/calcium.htm#Source

http://www.health.gov/Dietaryguidelines/dg...l/AppendixB.htm

 

They eat a varied diet, yes, but they also drink about 8 oz of soymilk a day. I pour it over their Shredded Wheat & Bran, for one thing. That cereal does not taste good dry. It's not harmful to them and they are healthy children, so I'm just not worried about it. I, however, am fortunate in having children who like a wide variety of foods and are enthusiastic about trying new foods. I have older children who were much less enthusiastic. My second son, for instance, would not touch solid foods until 9 mos old, and then only Cheerios. My oldest did not like any sort of meat at all until he was around 8, and this includes meat substitutes. Some children are much pickier than other children (and no, not always because the parents failed to provide enough choices--some humans are just more reactive to flavors and textures than others), and delivering protein and calcium through soymilk is certainly preferable to not delivering it at all. There is no one "right" way to do things.

 

QUOTE(rubyturquoise @ May 30 2008, 06:15 PM) [snapback]802019[/snapback]
I switched mine to soy at 2, not 1. Soy does have phytoestrogens. That means plant estrogens. Since humans are not plants, they don't affect us. Soy products can no longer claim, for instance, to regulate menopause. We are susceptible to mammalian estrogens (such as what they inject cows with to keep them producing milk). For this reason I would recommend organic whole milk if you can afford it.



I've never heard this before....do you have any links to good articles that talk about it further?

Soy gets so much bad, alarmist press, and I have spent a lot of effort trying to avoid it -- which is nearly impossible to do if you eat any packaged foods at all, even organic cereals and what not. (Seems like everything contains soy protein isolate.) I would love to really know whether or not to worry about it...

 

I had read that they need the fat in the whole milk for brain development. But Big Macs also have lots of fat...so can I just give them each a Big Mac a day??!!

 

QUOTE
Soy milk is really soy juice and we don't need juices of any kind.


I don't agree with that comparison. Fruit juice is pretty much empty calories, maybe some vitamin C if you're lucky. Soy milk is loaded with protein and calcium.

QUOTE
I'm not anti-cow's milk, it just seems that people think they have to wean from bm to something.


Well, of course you don't have to, but it's certainly a lot easier to get adequate calcium from milk (cow, goat, soy, rice, or other) than other sources. Most kids like milk, what's wrong with letting them have it?

 

QUOTE(rubyturquoise @ May 30 2008, 10:15 PM) [snapback]802019[/snapback]
I switched mine to soy at 2, not 1. Soy does have phytoestrogens. That means plant estrogens. Since humans are not plants, they don't affect us. Soy products can no longer claim, for instance, to regulate menopause. We are susceptible to mammalian estrogens (such as what they inject cows with to keep them producing milk). For this reason I would recommend organic whole milk if you can afford it.

This isn't true. Phytoestrogens can bind to our estrogen receptors, no they aren't bioidentical but neither are most of the progesterones that are given to women....Premarin (it stands for pregnant mare urine). We share a good portion of our protein codes with all other species (across all Domains) on the planet....

The hormones given to cows aren't estrogens...that doesn't even make any sense biologically, estrogen reduces milk output..... The hormone given to cows isrBST (r=recombinant, made from genetic engineering), which is Bovine Somatotropin a growth hormone and not an estrogen....FYI!

So here is my answer, as we have moved from a hunter-gatherer society we lost access to many 'whole' foods in our diet, in order to adequately supply nutritional needs we looked to fortified milk.... so my vote goes to whole milk unless there is a compelling medical reason not to feed milk. Soy milk is ground with the nut meat so I feel as if 'juice' is also a misnomer....

 

QUOTE(kma13 @ May 31 2008, 08:04 PM) [snapback]803253[/snapback]
This isn't true. Phytoestrogens can bind to our estrogen receptors, no they aren't bioidentical but neither are most of the progesterones that are given to women....Premarin (it stands for pregnant mare urine). We share a good portion of our protein codes with all other species (across all Domains) on the planet....

The hormones given to cows aren't estrogens...that doesn't even make any sense biologically, estrogen reduces milk output..... The hormone given to cows isrBST (r=recombinant, made from genetic engineering), which is Bovine Somatotropin a growth hormone and not an estrogen....FYI!

So here is my answer, as we have moved from a hunter-gatherer society we lost access to many 'whole' foods in our diet, in order to adequately supply nutritional needs we looked to fortified milk.... so my vote goes to whole milk unless there is a compelling medical reason not to feed milk. Soy milk is ground with the nut meat so I feel as if 'juice' is also a misnomer....


Yes, but the binding is something like 1/100 to 1/1000 of mammalian estrogen reception, so a few glasses of soymilk aren't dangerous, like some scary articles imply. Truly massive doses would be required.

However, I also vote for organic whole milk for a 1 yr old, for the fat content.

 

QUOTE(fuchsiagroan @ May 31 2008, 08:27 PM) [snapback]803209[/snapback]
Most kids like milk, what's wrong with letting them have it?


Nothing, imo. But I don't think you have to "wean to" it. I think it can just be another part of a varied diet. I guess I feel the "wean at 12 months to cow's milk" is, for lack of better words, wrong and misguided. I'd like to say that more gently but can't figure out how, especially since I feel strongly about it.

 

QUOTE
Nothing, imo. But I don't think you have to "wean to" it. I think it can just be another part of a varied diet. I guess I feel the "wean at 12 months to cow's milk" is, for lack of better words, wrong and misguided. I'd like to say that more gently but can't figure out how, especially since I feel strongly about it.


Thanks for explaining!

Could you say a little more about what bothers you about the "wean to" idea? I'm puzzled as to why you have such strong feelings about it. Is it the idea that many people have the babies are supposed to nurse no longer than 12 mo? (That one really bugs me too, I'm still nursing and will continue to until my kids self-wean.) I really don't see anything wrong with calling it "weaning to" cow's milk - if a mom is going to wean at 12 mo anyway, as many do, why not replace nursing with something that's at least sort of like it? I'd think that would make the whole process go more easily for the baby. And while cow's milk is far inferior to human milk (for baby humans ), it does at least have some of the nutrients of human milk - high protein, fat, and calcium. Dunno, just seems like a logical substitution to me.

 

I just don't think that cow's milk is equal to breast milk and the "wean to" phrase makes it sound like one is as good as the other. I don't know exactly what my issue is! My skin crawls when I hear that since a baby reached 12 months they can have 16 oz of cow's milk each day as a replacement to the breast milk they had been getting. I don't think you can go oz for oz like that.

Cow's milk has been associated with allergies, asthma, eczema, etc. Pasteurization has added even more concern. (Can you even imagine the phrase "Raw Breast milk?" :lol: ) Babies need to nurse for more than a year no matter how you look at it and the myth that cow's milk is a perfectly good replacement drives me batty.

Just my little issue I guess. I just assumed everyone nurses freely for several years before even thinking about how weaning will work. The circle of people I knew with my singletons feel into that group and I thought that it was just the norm. With the twins I've been exposed to a whole other camp of people who A. don't even attempt to breastfeed, B. Think that nursing for a 6 months is fabulous and C. can't even imagine giving babies the full experience for several years. Here on TS I've also been exposed to pumping moms who, imo, are amazing.

Now, off to have some clafouti (made with cow's milk!) :winking0009:

 

QUOTE(becasquared @ May 30 2008, 03:52 PM) [snapback]801407[/snapback]
does anyone feed goat's milk?


I give dd goat's milk b/c she can't tolerate cow's. If you google it, though, it appears to have so many benefits over cow's milk! It's so expensive, though.

 

Personally, I wouldn't give soy to my kids unless it was necessary. It's processed so much and has so much estrogen that it's just not worth it IMO. We're always finding out new information about how different things work with our body that I'm just not willing to take the chance.

If you're deciding between soy and cow's milk, go with cow because it's actually milk and has a very long record of safe usage.