Just Curious

I've read both Babywise and Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Baby (albeit both in the "condensed" versions due to time constraints), and I think I got some good advice from both. We try to follow the eat, play, sleep pattern reccomended in Babywise, and I always try to have the kiddos down within 90-120 min of wakefulness reccomended in HSHHB.

I've haven't heard many people (actually not a soul) say bad things about HSCHB, but Babywise seems to draw ire in many....so what am I missing (was their a horrible chapter I overlooked?) that gets people so riled up about this method?

I'm just curious, so I thought I would ask!
Thanks, Suzi

 

Suzi, there have been big battles about Babywise and I simply don't see why. It's kind of a common sense approach if you ask me. I don't know what's so bad about it either, but buckle your seat belt it could be a bumpy ride! (I don't know why!)

 

I have often wondered...but I have never read it!

 

There are some different versions of Baby Wise and I'm not sure which one I read, but I don't have it anymore. For me, I think it's just not the best idea when breastfeeding...at least in the beginning. If bottle feeding, it's probably not such a big deal. With breastfeeding, some women have a huge supply in the beginning and others have to work to get their supply up for what the baby/babies need. If they followed the Baby Wise method, it would be really hard to build up a supply for what the baby needs (in many cases anyway). Someone gave me this book and I tried it when DD was 6 weeks old. Little did I realize that it was a growth spurt time for her. The book said to let her cry to go to sleep, even if it took a really long time. So I did and she was so persistent she would cry for a whole hour before falling asleep and then I had to wake her up to feed her. She was so exhausted from crying that she had no energy to nurse well. I was so clueless, but after just three days I could tell my little girl was getting dehyrdated and I could hardly stand the crying. I threw the book away. It is NOT recommended for breastfeeding moms, especially so early on. Newborns can often need to nurse every hour to two hours at the beginning and when going through a growth spurt, so you can see how the naps just wouldn't fit in the way Baby Wise says they should. I know of some babies who were diagnosed with FTT (failure to thrive) because of this method.

I don't agree with the way that they say you should let a newborn cry to sleep...in the book I had. But you can always be flexible and just not include that part. That's why I like pacifiers now...and swings! The schedule itself is fine (eat, play, sleep) if you can have a flexible attitude about it. I've heard of people being so strict about it that their children end up having attatchment disorders later in life. Just use common sense and those motherly God-given instincts (in my opinion). Of course, this just opens a whole other can of worms regarding CIO. I think it often depends on the child's temperment.

Overall, if the baby/babies are getting enough to eat, sleeping well, etc., do what works!

 

I have never read it but I hear its because the schedule or routine you establish cannot be changed even if your baby is hungry etc. Not sure though.

 

QUOTE
Someone gave me this book and I tried it when DD was 6 weeks old. Little did I realize that it was a growth spurt time for her. The book said to let her cry to go to sleep, even if it took a really long time.


Now that I DO NOT agree with... you don't let a 6 week old cry 'even if it took a really long time'.

QUOTE
That's why I like pacifiers now...and swings!


Ditto, what lifesavers.

 

There is some (negative / anti) info on www.ezzo.info. There are cases (mostly related to earlier prints of the book) of people who didn't feed their babies sufficiently (actually a few cases of death) because they were just following the book and not the needs of the baby. Also the author is not a pediatrician and has no degree in anything related to child care. That's also a major concern. However the book has been co-written by a pediatrician (I am not sure whether that was done after the earlier versions).

Anyway, therefore I never had any interest in reading the book. Besides Weissbluth is our pediatrician and has been one for over 35 years. He's done extensive research, own practice and set up the sleep disorder center here at Children's Memorial.

 

Here are a few reasons.

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The book's feeding schedule, called Parent Directed Feeding (PDF), consists of feeding newborns at intervals of three to three and one-half hours (described as two and one-half to three hours from the end of the last 30-minute feeding) beginning at birth. Nighttime feedings are eliminated at eight weeks.

This advice is in direct opposition to the latest AAP recommendations on newborn feeding (AAP Policy Statement, "Breastfeeding and the Use of Human Milk," Pediatrics, Dec. 1997): "Newborns should be nursed whenever they show signs of hunger, such as increased alertness or activity, mouthing, or rooting. Crying is a late indicator of hunger. Newborns should be nursed approximately eight to 12 times every 24 hours until satiety."

Although demand feeding is endorsed by the Academy, WHO, and La Leche League among others, "Babywise" claims that demand feeding may be harmful and outlines a feeding schedule in contrast to it. The book makes numerous medical statements without references or research, despite that many are the antitheses of well-known medical research findings. In 190 pages, only two pediatric journals are referenced with citations dated 1982 and 1986.


QUOTE
Though "Babywise" does say, "With PDF, a mother feeds her baby when the baby is hungry," it also instructs parents to do otherwise. In a question-and-answer section, parents of a 2-week-old baby, who did not get a full feeding at the last scheduled time and wants to eat again, are instructed that babies learn quickly from the laws of natural consequences. "If your daughter doesn't eat at one feeding, then make her wait until the next one."


QUOTE
One such book, On Becoming Babywise, has raised concern among pediatricians because it outlines an infant feeding program that has been associated with failure to thrive (FTT), poor weight gain, dehydration, breast milk supply failure, and involuntary early weaning. ... The Child Abuse Prevention Council of Orange County, Calif., stated its concern after physicians called them with reports of dehydration, slow growth and development, and FTT associated with the program.


From http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/aneyaap.htm

 

I'm guessing the book has been "reworked" since I never once read anything suggesting you don't feed a hungry baby OR that you let a 6 week old CIO endlessly to go to sleep. My copy was published in 2006.

The criticism of scheduled feeding or parent directed feeding (as it's called in Babywise) makes me wonder why if on demand feeding is the "gold standard" of feeding methods - why do NICU units (where babies would need the most care) feed on a schedule?

It is interesting to hear the reasoning for the vilification, and if it's true of the earlier copies than perhaps it is justified.

Thanks again for all the input!
Suzi

 

with my dd, i read it and followed it, for the most part. it did work for us. dd slept through the night by about 10 - 11 weeks. formula-fed, so i can't answer if it would even working if breastfeeding. however, i also had a ped who recommended getting her on a schedule immediately, so we followed peds advice first and then the concept of feed, play, sleep.

like any of the books on babies, i take it all with a grain of salt, and consult my common sense first.

 

QUOTE(SusieQ @ Aug 11 2007, 05:59 PM) [snapback]365324[/snapback]
The criticism of scheduled feeding or parent directed feeding (as it's called in Babywise) makes me wonder why if on demand feeding is the "gold standard" of feeding methods - why do NICU units (where babies would need the most care) feed on a schedule?


I was wondering this exact same thing. The ladies came home from the NICU on a 3 hour schedule that we maintained. In the very beginning we had to wake them to eat, but then when they got a bit older they stretched the schedule to 4 hours on their own (we are still on that schedule now- except they go longer at night).

My DH just said "Probably because its easier for staff." But its also probably because many of the NICU babies are too tiny to be 'hungry' (this was what one of the nurses told us). So its up to the staff to wake the baby when they know they need to eat.

I haven't read Baby Wise and I had no idea there was such controversy over scheduling. I don't know how I would have a shred of sanity without the feeding schedule though. -Leighann

 

QUOTE
My DH just said "Probably because its easier for staff." But its also probably because many of the NICU babies are too tiny to be 'hungry' (this was what one of the nurses told us). So its up to the staff to wake the baby when they know they need to eat.


I think it's both reasons, actually. For a NICU to be able to demand-feed, they'd have to have way more staff than they could afford.

But preemies are usually also very, very sleepy. Mine were born at 34 weeks - not that early by preemie standards - and most times we'd have to wake DD to feed her while she was still in the NICU. Many times she'd be too sleepy to eat enough, and they wound up gavage feeding. Eating is hard work for a little preemie, and lots of them just don't have the energy. They also often don't wake up often enough on their own to eat all they need to.

When they sent her home, they told us not to let her go more than 4-5 hrs without a feeding, and there were times that we'd have to wake her after 5 hrs to eat. (This changed as she approached her due date - then she was hungry and wakeful more often.)

However, for the rare preemies that do wake up hungry more frequently than their 3 hr schedule, the schedule can still work because the NICU monitors everything so closely. Every cc they're fed is recorded (if BF, they are weighed right before and after a feeding to check how much they got), they are weighed daily, and every diaper is weighed to check urine output. The NICU makes darn sure they're eating enough and growing appropriately.

This is very different from expecting a healthy full-term breastfed newborn only to feed every 3-3.5 hrs, or expecting an 8-wk-old to sleep through the night.

 

What I gathered mainly from babywise is the need to not needlessly feed a baby when there might be another reason for crying. I know my MIL would put a bottle in DS's mouth if he cried...even if he had just eaten a full bottle instead of wondering if he was too hot/cold or tired or over stimulated or has a wet/dirty diaper. Also I gagthered that it's better to not to use "props" just because you have to eventually take them away...ie swings for sleeping/pacis/rocking to sleep, etc. Although I will admit to using paci's and swings! But I do wonder if when taking them away if it would have been easier to just not use them! It is a lot of common sense parenting. I do think that with everything you read take it with a grain of salt and make decisions that are the best for yourself. I don't think there is a cookie cutter approach that will work for every baby b/c each baby and each parent is different. I'm sure there are other books out there that could be taken apart piece by piece and find something that didn't work for someone. I just know it helped me when I was a new mom and had no idea of what to do. It helped me to know that sometimes babies need a type of scedule and that an "order" of doing things might be the best for my kids(eat, play, sleep). It also helped me to be more confident in taking care of dd, 8 years ago. Some of what is in the book I didn't do then and don't do now. JMO

 

Re: NICU 3 hour feeding schedule - my girls were also 34 weekers and they fed them every 3hours until they got a little bigger and then went to 4 - which, when i learned, made me incredibly incensed, as it seemed WAY too long for their little stomachs. One of the nurses told me that she had had to give a 'snack' at 3 hours and hwen i asked if they were going to continue that she said 'no, we want them on a four hour schedule". I almost went ballistic - and made sure to be there every 3 hours if possible (my girls are BFd, which may make a difference as BF'd babies tend to sleep lighter and the milk is lighter than formula.

When we came home my pedi said not to let them go longr than 3 hours and to wake to feed them if necessary - that was until they were a certain weight, maybe 10lbs, i dn't remember.

Personally, while i understand the need/desire for a schedule, to me the notion of trying to 'train' a newborn is crazy: each baby is different and their cues should be followed. As the person who cares for them most, you get to know them and read them. Sometimes my girls, now almost 5 mos, do eat, play, sleep - and sometimes it's eat, sleep, play. No rhyme or reason, but i know that if they're hungry, im not going to 'make them wait' to accomodate MY need for schedule - not at this point in my life.

This is a personal thing, my personal feeling is that they are babies for such a very short time (even though it FEELS long some days!), and by meeting their needs early on they are set up for feeling safe and secure. I know that my demand-fed girls are incredibly happy, social and interactive. I'm not claiming that it's simply because they're demand fed, but i do know that they are happy and easy-going babies.

 

QUOTE(Jordari @ Aug 13 2007, 04:18 AM) [snapback]366281[/snapback]
Re: NICU 3 hour feeding schedule - my girls were also 34 weekers and they fed them every 3hours until they got a little bigger and then went to 4 - which, when i learned, made me incredibly incensed, as it seemed WAY too long for their little stomachs. One of the nurses told me that she had had to give a 'snack' at 3 hours and hwen i asked if they were going to continue that she said 'no, we want them on a four hour schedule". I almost went ballistic - and made sure to be there every 3 hours if possible (my girls are BFd, which may make a difference as BF'd babies tend to sleep lighter and the milk is lighter than formula.


Wow. I can't believe your NICU tried to get them on a 4 hour schedule while still in the hospital! My girls were at least 8 weeks old before they stretched their own schedules out to 4 hours. I would have been upset too. -Leighann

 

As the others stated, BW encourages 3-4 hour feeding schedules. While this is not unheard of with ff'ed babies, bf'ed babies need to eat more often than this. BF'ed babies need to eat AT LEAST 8-12x's a day, which translates to 2-3 hours. I also kinda found it contradicting. If it encourages you to feed the baby when they're hungry, then you're feeding them on cue, but at the same time, they encourage to put them on a feeding schedule..

I belong to a bf'ing mom's group and there were many women who tried this method and end up losing their supply and had to quit..

as far as NICU schedules, my boys were born at 34 weeks and the MOST they could go without any food was 3 hours. I found out that the nurses were feeding them every 4 hours and they were losing weight.

 

I loved BabyWise. I BF and had (have) absolutely no problem with it. Mine have been sleeping through the night since 6 weeks old and take long naps during the day. They also go down without being comforted and will play in their beds when they wake up early from naps. I know every baby is different and people need to use what works best for them, but BabyWise was a lifesaver for me. He also says that your instinct is the best and if you think they are hungry then feed them, etc. It is just a general schedule that you can use as a guide, with changes based on your baby's individual needs, etc. It also suggests schedules from 2 1/2-3 1/2 hours, not 4, until your baby differentiates night and day. So if you want to feed them every 2 1/2 hours, then it is fine. Mine weren't hungry until 3 or 3 1/2 hours later. This is just to eliminate snack feeding. Some people have more stamina than I do and can feed on demand, but I didn't have the energy nor the desire to do this. I needed "me time" and keeping them on a schedule helped me accomplish this. HTHs.