Ideas for really, really stubborn kids

This might belong in the health/special needs forum, but I wanted to get some more general ideas from you guys.

I've mentioned often that Kevan has some delays, and has been in speech therapy for more than a year. One of the things we do for homework is have the entire family sit around the table, and then I go around asking each person to say a specific word. Saying it -- or even making an attempt -- earns a treat. (We've been using mini M&M's, fruit snacks, etc.)

The idea is to use peer pressure with Kevan -- he really doesn't like it when everyone else at the table gets a treat, and he doesn't. So the theory is that he'll want to participate.

But the problem is, he just pitches a fit and refuses. I always start with easy words that he can say, that he initiates often -- "ball" and "book" etc. But, he even refuses to say those when asked. It doesn't matter how badly he wants the treat, he WILL NOT say the word, even though he can. Instead, he just has a tantrum.

His oral motor therapist is working on basic nonsense syllables with him -- meaning, may, mee, mi, mo, moo, etc. We've done M, B, P, and now H. He will make the M sound, the B sound and so on by itself, but he will NOT blend them with the vowels. But, I think he *can* do it, because I hear all kinds of sounds come out of his mouth when he's babbling. But when he is asked to repeat something, 98% of the time, he shakes his head and says "no."

Some of this is due to apraxia, if he does have it, which is seeming more and more likely. But, a lot of it is just plain stubbornness. Does anyone have any ideas for how we can get around this?

I know all 2-year-olds are stubborn, but I seriously think I'm dealing with the most stubborn kid on the planet. His physical therapist even said that he had the capability to walk months before he actually did, but he refused to try. And, his oral motor therapist always tells him, "Kevan, you're just getting in your own way."

I am so frustrated! I feel like he just needs that one breakthrough, but we don't see it coming. (And, he has therapy coming out of his ears, plus nutritional supplements, hyperbaric treatments, you name it, we do it.) We're still working on basic stuff -- he doesn't say "hi," and he still doesn't say "mama."

Has anyone else been able to reach an ultra-stubborn kid? I know it's all about finding his currency -- but what the heck might that be?

 

Becca, have you tried *not* asking him when you're all around the table? It seems that he does know *what* you want him to do, but in typical 2 year old fashion, won't do it!

I know that sometimes with my girls I have to act like I really, really don't care (when in truth, I just want to pick them up and put them in their darn seats for lunch or dinner or get out the door)!

And by not asking him I mean, start going around your circle, leaving Kevan for last, just look at him expectantly. If he doesn't say it within however long you'd feel is reasonable, just go on to the next person again. That way when he does join in, it'll be *his* idea.

The less *I* seem to care about something, the more willing they seem to be to at least trying. Not to say this works all the time, because nothing does and sometimes what works one day, not even close the next!

 

Hi, hugs to you! My 4 year old was very much the same way, but let me just say he has improved dramatically. he also did not talk AT ALL until after 2 years! Never really even tried to make sounds. he just pointed to everything. he was also sooooooooooooooooooo stubborn. He would not try to say anything. Nothing really ever worked great, but toys and games worked great for us. We really had to trick him into practicing speech, because if he knew that is what we were doing he totally shut down. For example I made a matching kind of game out of pictures of his toys. (I made about 10 different boards so he would not get tired of it). I would play it and say the name of the picture before I put the picture down, and eventually when he really wanted to play too he would try to say the word. I would really celebrate any attempt at the word no matter how bad it was. His speech therapist would bring a new toy every time she would come but he had to say a word to play with it. We just really acted like it was the greatest thing ever if he made any attempt at speech eventually he warmed up to it. With in about 3 months he was saying whatever he wanted. Maybe not all that clearly, but he was talking. We went from NOOOO speech to full conversations in about 4 months! And let me just say he has no type of diagnosed disabilities. He is enrolled in 4K this year and is learning just fine with all the other 4K kids. He can still be vvveerrryyy stubborn! I have used many a star chart to try and reward his behavior to come around to my way of thinking if you know what I mean. Good luck!

 

Is there a possibility that he is scared that he will fail or not be able to do it? I know under "pressure", it can make it harder for some kids to do things rather than spontaneously. My other thought is to possibly try to make it into more of a game or play-like. When I did Speech Therapy with the Early On kids, most of the therapy I conducted was play based because younger kids have such a hard time doing drill work or something that isn't "fun" and right at that moment. Often times, I'd incorporate games, bubbles, wind up toys, etc. Every turn, I would make the sound and demonstrate how to say it or how it feels to say it and then on their turn it was time for them to try. I had one kiddo that would perform for bubbles. So, I would show him a picture that had the sound, demonstrate it, then he would make the sound I would blow bubbles. Using things and activities that he really enjoys(swings, helping to cook, race cars, etc.) may help him not feel like he "has to do it", kwim? I hope this doesn't come off wrong or like I'm telling you to change the homework...only wanted to let you know that there may be some other ways to get him to do it without him thinking too much about it. Two years old is such a hard age to begin with. They can be stubborn by nature, have short attention spans and not very cooperative. Add on to that a speech/language delay or impairment and I'm sure he's super frustrated. It sounds like you're doing a wonderful job with helping him get the services he needs and also trying to help him carryover some of those skills at home. Keep up the great job.

 

Thank you, guys.

Angela, that is a great suggestion. I'm going to try it tomorrow and see what happens. It's true, 2-year-olds love to do the opposite of what we ask.

Alabamamom, I love to hear stories of kids who talked very late, but ended up okay. Thanks for sharing that!

Melissa, I guess it is possible that he's scared he'll fail -- I really have no idea what's going on in his little head. He has two therapists who work on this stuff -- one who concentrates on oral motor, tongue movement, chewing, and enunciation of syllables, like I mentioned. She's very old school, and has us do the kind of drills that I described. She also has us do flash cards with him.

But, he also sees a traditional speech therapist weekly who does play therapy exclusively. She works with Kevan on puzzles, toys cars, tries to get him to say "open" and "go bus" and stuff like that. She also uses bubbles and brings her own toys, and uses our picture books, etc.

Both therapists try to use the reward method with him -- say a word, get a treat, or say a word, get to play with the toy. And, it just doesn't seem to be working.

He made a bunch of progress earlier in the year, because both therapists were trying to get him to sign when he really had no words at all. Now he signs, has a handful of words, and can communicate basic stuff -- no, more, hungry, etc. -- so now we're demanding more of him, and I feel like we're not getting anywhere.

I guess I can try to combine the two types of therapies? Kevan's favorite toy is the play kitchen, and he will pretend to stir things and move all the play food around in the pots, etc. I wonder if I can try to play with him that way, and see if I can get him to produce his syllables?

Ugh. It's hard to get him by himself -- it doesn't work when my daughters are around, because they both talk for him or distract him. Sorry, this turned into a vent more than anything! Please keep the suggestions coming -- I am willing to try anything and everything.

 

:hug: I am so sorry you're meeting such resistance from him! It's really tough for me when one of mine will refuse to do things I know he can... and your situation is so much more intense and frustrating, I'm sure. Sometimes I will do things like sing songs and try to get them to join in, rather than just telling/asking them to do something. If I am participating WITH them rather than at odds with them, it seems to work much better. However, I'm not quite sure how you could do that.

You're such a good mom, Becca, and I hope that you can find something that works to get him to cooperate!

 

We've been dealing with this with Kayci since she was two also. There hasn't been an official diagnosis yet, but the ST is really thinking apraxia. We have another meeting on Friday to see where we need to go from here. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will make Kayci do something she doesn't want to do. If it's a daily task that needs doing, I can force her to do it (for example getting dressed in the morning; I'll give her a few minutes and a warning that if she doesn't I will and then I just get her dressed and move on). I can't force her to say things! Like Kevan with the treats, we'd try to make her say something (anything!) to get her snack or drink or toy or whatever she wanted. She wouldn't say a thing and move on to something else rather than make a sound! She's in preschool through the school district and it's helped a ton. She's saying so much more than she did a year ago. She still doesn't make some sounds at all but she really tries. Like pps have said, acting like I couldn't care less if she did it or not and then praising when she did helped. It didn't always work, but over time it helped her make some progress. I know how frustrating it is :hug: .

 

Meredith, thank you so much for your post. I may PM you and pick your brain, if you don't mind -- I know all kids are different, but it would be really helpful for me to know what to expect from Kevan two years from now.

He did just start preschool three mornings a week, and we're hoping that helps, too. We're also considering the Atlanta Speech School for him next year, although he has to be accepted, it's crazy expensive, and it's a really long drive for us....so, we'll see.

 

No problem, Becca! I just replied to your PM. I just realized you are in GA! We're "neighbors"! :ibiggrin:

 

My DD didn't say her first word (bye) until she was almost 2 1/2. To say she is stubborn is such an understatement.

She was also in speech therapy, but was not exactly a willing participant. I'm kind of glad that's over actually. I didn't see tremendous benefit. I felt like she was a circus act. I think she did, too and let me just say this child performs on demand for NOBODY!

I think she's still behind, but more on track than what I expected. She excels in areas where other kids haven't even gotten on the radar. So, I have learned that she is a VERY visual learner versus auditory. Try a couple of tv shows/dvds for a while and see if you notice anything. Word World (PBS) and the Letter Factory (dvd) opened my eyes and DD's mouth! I couldn't get the speech therapists to get on board with excitement of the visual component but it was a significant impact.

Finally, I think sometimes that DD is going to be such a perfectionist that she doesn't want to "try" something new until she thinks she has perfected it. I sang that darn ABC song countless times with her giving me the deer in headlights stare. Then, literally, one day out came the ENTIRE ABCs. I almost fell over. She does things like that all of the time. So, with her, it seems that it's all or nothing and it only comes when she's "perfected" it in her mind. Does that make sense?

Good luck to you.