ID twins with IVF

Just wondering...
Due to my obsession with possibly having twins again I was doing reading and learned that the incidence of ID twins was up due to IVF with ICSI. Was wondering if you did IVF with ICSI and had ID twins or if you had ID'S with IVF just by chance. I have a good friend doing IVF - transfer next week - and wonder what her chnces are for twins. She plans to transfer one embryo and no ICSI as far as I know.
What have your experiences been?

 

IVF (#4) with ICSI and AH.

 

I have IDs with IVF but without icsi. I had a day three transfer. They were in two separate sacs. We transfered two embryos so I always thought two took but it ended up one did not and the other split in the 1st three days making it possible for them to have their own everything.

 

Identicals are more likely to occur in IVF than spontaneously (through sex) - I have read they are 20-40 times more likely. However, frats are still more common in IVF due to the multiple embryo transfer. Just the same, I know 3 people who definitely had id's through IVF. I *may* be carrying identical twins and we won't know until birth or later, but my RE said she thought they looked identical early on (we've never been able to determine the chorionicity).

 

Assisted hatching enhances your probabilities of identical twins. The exact biology behind it is not yet known, but there must be something in the medium when they hatch outside the womb that makes them grow more quickly and split.

No consistent study shows that there are higher chances of ID twinning through assisted reproduction, although numbers seem to point towards it.
Millie

 

Our RE told us that was a possibility!! our girls look so different to us but strangers almost always think they are identical. I do not remember if she gave us a percentage or not - we just wanted a baby or two or three it did not make any difference so I guess I didn't really pay to close attention! but it is a seriously cool thing!! good luck to your friend!!!!

 

I have an online friend that has ID boys from IVF and ICSI.

 

I had IVF with ICSI and have fraternals on the way (boy/girl). My very good friend did IVF with ICSI 4 years ago and put two back and ended up with triplets....one set of identicals and a fraternal (all boys!!).

 

I've not heard that ICSI ups the chances of identicals, but I have definitely heard that assisted hatching (AH) does.

I have fraternal twin girls from IVF with ICSI, no AH.

 

I have identical twin boys from IVF and ICSI no assisted hatching tho.

It isn't the ICSI that allegedly ups the chances of ID twinnning. It is the AH, because it can cause the egg to hatch out and become TWO.

I had TOP NOTCH self hatching embryo that turned out to be my identical boys.

IVF does not CAUSE identical twinning, however, because the egg/embryo that would BE an identical twin is the "strongest" it would survive the IVF process and implant due to it's strength alone. My Embryologist told me that our embryo was the within the top 3% of embryos she had EVER seen and her colleagues agreed. Only 4 of my 20 some embies made it and there is a HIGH probability that another one of those could be an id embie because it is soo strong and well developed.

Weak embies die, and strong ones survive it only makes sense that the ID embie would make it due to it's strength. If 20 eggs are retrieved, 10 would probably fertilize and maybe 4 would make it to blast (day 5), if you're LUCKY!! At day five, they see which 2 are going the STRONGEST and tx them. They would then, be more likely to transfer your dominant embryo at that pt which COULD result in ids.

This is the discussion I've had w/ my RE anyway.. makes sense to me! And I couldn't be more thrilled to have my miracle Id's!

 

We did IVF with ICSI and transferred 2. I am pregnant with ID boys.

 

IVF/ICSI- frat girls.

We were told ID risk is higher and they talked about the risk of triplets since they 'mess' with the eggs to fertilize them.
Also told that a day 5/6 transfer was less likely for ID than a 2/3 day...since sometimes they can see an embryo w/ potential to 'split' by day 5.

 

I am currently pregnant with ID twin boys. We used IVF/ICSI/PGD. IVF alone does not increase the risk of ID twins, but any of the techniques that are used to manipulate the egg - ICSI, AH, or PGD, create a defect in the outer zona pallucida of the egg. This defect is what allows the embryo to split at a higher rate than is seen with natural conception. According to the literature the rate of ID twinning in this group is about twice that seen in the normal population.

 

QUOTE(houstontwins @ Aug 29 2008, 11:04 AM) [snapback]953604[/snapback]
I am currently pregnant with ID twin boys. We used IVF/ICSI/PGD. IVF alone does not increase the risk of ID twins, but any of the techniques that are used to manipulate the egg - ICSI, AH, or PGD, create a defect in the outer zona pallucida of the egg. This defect is what allows the embryo to split at a higher rate than is seen with natural conception. According to the literature the rate of ID twinning in this group is about twice that seen in the normal population.

This is exactly what I've heard/read, too. ICSI, AH, and PGD can all increase the chances of an ID split because of the manipulation of the embryo.

 

I believe the stat that I heard was that ID twins happen 1 in 100 times with IVF versus 1 in 250 in the general population.

That was very interesting explanation in a pp about strong embies surviving and being more likely to become identical twins. Another explanation someone's RE had was that the procedure may weaken the outside of the embryo in some way and make it slightly more likely to split.

 

Wow - thanks for all the input - my friend just updated me. She used donor eggs, got 6, all were fertilized with no AH or ICSI as far as she knows but she did sign off on the AH if needed. She was told today that all were still going strong but some have more cells than others and they are looking at a day 5 transfer of one embryo. What do you think her chances are of success? They plan to freeze down the rest of they need to try again. I hope it works - its been a long road for her. This is her 3rd donor - the first two dropped out unexectedly.

 

It's really tough to say. A recent study done at Stanford concluded that the transfer of multiple embryos doesn't significantly increase the odds of pregnancy over the transfer of just one embryo - so she does have that in her favor. However, many clinics still transfer multiple embryos to increase the odds. Quality of the embryo may or may not be an issue. Worldwide the odds of success in any IVF cycle is about 25% but in the US I have read it is as high as 50%. Individual doctors who keep their own statistics may boast of much higher odds, but it depends on their clientelle, the issues the patients have, and how the doctor manages the statistics (like do they count cycles canceled to poor response, etc.). It's all very complicated. It also depends on your friend's specific issues.

I'd love to tell you that I thought she was sure to succeed. I wish I could. I can offer the best of my hopes, though. I've been down that road and have empathy ofr anyone on that path.

Please keep us updated on her progress.

 

Chances tend to increase with donor eggs, so she's got that going for her, too. Good luck to her!!