I think my ID's are frats

Right from the start I was told the boys were ID. They were mono/di with an extremely thin membrane between the two. They couldnt even see it at first my 20 wk ultrasound. I was told. They were mirror image at birth it was crazy. I was also told that they showed signs of TTTS while I was pregnant with them, size discordance, blood flow in within the placenta etc. WHen they were born, Nathaniel my baby A was red, and I mean like really red. William was extremely pale, anemic, became severely jaundiced and septic.

So they similarities in them: both have the same shape mouth, eyes, ears, same hair colour, same wonky toe, same birth mark exactly, same blood type, same hair colour. Same teething order until these last 2 teeth.

Differences: Eye colour, Nathaniels are a hazel brown, Williams, are more of a Grey, and they do look like they are changing. William has a cleft chin, Nathaniel does not. William has dimples, Nathaniel doesnt. Their build is also different. NAthaniel is more stalky, William is more "bean pole"

So I have no idea what to think anymore.

 

Genes are like a recipe for a person. But there are a lot of factors in the environment that affect whether or not a gene is expressed. Studies on identical twins like your sons have lead to some of our more advanced understanding of how genetics works. Your boys are two individuals who have never occupied the exact same space, factors that affected them in the womb, at birth and since have always been slightly different.

 

Do you have pictures? Would you get them tested...that's the only way to know for sure

 

If I could afford to I would test them.

here are some pics:
Recent:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa37/slipperqueen/Picture075-1.jpg

Few months ago:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa37/slipperqueen/baby%20number%202/ohh.jpg

When they were younger:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa37/slipperqueen/baby%20number%202/moresleeping.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa37/slipperqueen/baby%20number%202/newborn.jpg

 

My girls are Id and one has curly hair and one has straight. Not every thing is the same for ids.

 

I know that. What throws me is their eye colour......

 

It may just be his are changing first. At one point jessy had blue eyes and jazz's were almost green

 

I didnt realize that the first pic was so small. Here it is again in a better size:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa37/slipperqueen/Picture075.jpg

 

I think if I were you, I would want to test too. They are very, very cute!

 

They look mighty alike to me! Take away the eye color difference-and they are the same kid! And mighty cute I might add!

 

They do look an awful lot alike. My vote would still be ID. My cousins were involved in a twin study and got a free genetic test as part of it. Perhaps that would be an option.

 

That's the only difference I see...they are sooo cute! Like a PP said maybe one of their eyes are changing before the others.

It's too bad the DNA tests are so expensive. I told DH it was what I wanted for my birthday so that's how I got mine done LOL! He didn't see the point "wasting" the money but I needed to know for sure.

 

[quote name='E's 3' date='09 November 2010 - 07:17 AM' timestamp='1289305063' post='1719530']
That's the only difference I see...they are sooo cute! Like a PP said maybe one of their eyes are changing before the others.

It's too bad the DNA tests are so expensive. I told DH it was what I wanted for my birthday so that's how I got mine done LOL! He didn't see the point "wasting" the money but I needed to know for sure.
[/quote]

If I remember right, you are in Canada, right? What company did you use and was it expensive?

 

Yes, are you? If you're a member of Multiple Births Canada or one of their local chapters you can get the testing done through their Zygosity Testing Program. It was $180. I can send you the info if you want.

 

Then what you need is Melissa's Free Genetic Test for Twins.

Here's how it works.

You will need a digital photo of just their faces--individually.
And the people who know them the best.
Zoom in or crop the photo so that it is showing just a nose.
Show that nose to the person who knows them the best. Whose nose is it?
Can't tell? Try the same with a mouth. A forhead, a chin, an eye, etc.
You can also crop so that both mouths are on the screen at the same time. Just the mouths. Which is which? If you can't tell. Then they are ID.
I think this works best for babies aged 9 months to 18 months, because by then they will have mostly grown out of any womb-position-head-shape-differences.
I also recommend taking the photos of their faces when they are sleeping. Especially in your case as you see a difference in eye color. But for all twins because their facial muscles will relax in sleep so their individual facial expressions won't hinder the test.

 

Thanks. People would be able to tell a difference in their chins though, William has a cleft

 

I vote for ID but really you have so so super cute kids.as long as they are healthy and happy, is that all matter?

 

My friend has frats (they are 3 now) and they look so so similar. We had to convince her to get them tested to make sure they weren't ID. At daycare, they still have to wear nametags. My girls are ID and if I crop pictures so they are just their eyes, I can tell the difference. Everything else I cannot (nose, mouth, etc).

Your boys look different to me, but similar enough to be ID. I agree with PP: so many factors effect physical appearance, not just your genetic phenotype. Having ID twins makes me so much more interested in genetics.

 

What cuties! My guys are ID too (although I have never had them tested) and have totally different body types. Austin is very round.. he's our little sumo wrestler, and Miles is very lean. If they share a bunch of other heritable traits, I'd still say ID.

I watched a show on twins a while ago and they are using ID twins in a study for a field called epigenetics. Twins can be highly variable in what genes they express, making them very different. Due to various environmental factors a gene may be "turned on" in one twin, but not another. They used examples of twins where one was gay, the other not, different eye colours, curly vs. straight hair.

One of my babies was BRIGHT red when he was born too! They told us he had too many red blood cells, but I have no idea why to this day.. another doctor mentioned that one of the boys was stealing from his brother, so I always wondered whether it was the beginnings of TTTS. Anyway, they're both healthy today and the same colour :laughing:

 

The different blood types is interesting to me. For my guys, strangers cant tell them apart at all. They are forever asking who is who. The same birth mark to me would tell me ID for these guys. Same shape, same spot, same colour.

 

Me too - boys are ID and didn't look alike at the beginning. Now, at 11 months, they are starting to look much more ID, but still have some different qualities - Luke's hair is curly, Sam's is flat straight; head shapes are still different and Lukes cheeks are fuller.

Looking at the photo of your boys - I would say they are ID. I can see the different qualities that you are picking up on (obviously the eye color), but I would still say ID. Just my opinion.

Oh, and I forgot to add that your boys are absolutely adorable!!

 

Thanks! They are def keepers!

 

Super cute, I think they look different.

 

I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

They are fraternal! I'd bet my butt on it! They have different noses, too. They look pretty different to me and the chin and the eyes too.. Ya they're FRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Totally! Your instinct is correct here, i think! Unreal!

 

I could be wrong ... William has curly eyelashes and Nathaniel has straight eyelashes?
Their noses look different to me.

 

William's eye lashes do curl more then Nathaniels. Williams nose is slightly smaller then Nathaniel's as well. I took 3 E's advice and contacted my OB who delivered the boys to see if the placenta was sent to Pathology. They were born in a very small comunity hospital on the South Shore of Montreal, so I was unsure if it was even sent. My OB said it was because it is a teaching hospital and they dont get many multiple births. I am just waiting for a call back to see what the say.

 

I noticed the nose thing. They are either frats who look a lot alike or ids who look different.

I don't think they can actually tell if they are identical by an ultrasound unless they share a placenta, right? And even then two placentas can be fused together and look like one. Am I right about this?

 

Yes you are! They saw 1 placenta extremely early on with the boys as well as an extremely thin membrane seperating them. At my 36 week ultrasound they could not longer see the membrane between the two

 

Ok, so if they truly had one placenta (and it wasn't two fused together), then they have to be ID. Two genetically different people cannot share the same placenta--biologically impossible.

 

Exactly. That's why I contacted my OB to see if it was sent to pathology to determine if it was in fact 1 placenta and not 2 fused together. There are pics that I have where I am like wow, they have to be ID, then others, I think they are Frats.

 

Wow, how extremely difficult to tell! Dare I ask for more pictures. I used www.dnasolutions.com There's a Canadian phone number. I actually had it sent to my parents in the States so I'm not sure about the Canadian prices. I hope though that your OB has the information you need to determine if you should order a test. However if it comes back one placenta, I would definitely go ahead and order a DNA test. Cuuuute boys!!!