I need help, about to lose my mind!

I am about to lose my mind with my DD she is going to be 4 in a couple of weeks. She will not do anything that I tell her to do. For two days now I have been trying to get her to start cleaning her room. All I have asked is will she please put away one type of item and I will then come in to help her. For example, her barbies. She has a rolling case that they all go in. She can just put them all in there and I will come in and continue with her room. She told me it was too hard. So I asked her to pick up her books and put them back on the shelf. Again she whined that she can't do it. Everything in her room has a place. She has a shelf with several bins on it. Each bin has different types of toys in them. play food in one, blocks in another and so on. Barbie clothes go in a cardboard princess box that pullups came in once. You get the picture. I have shown her everytime that we clean her room where everything goes. She knows. we have had multiple talks about getting a toy out and when she is finished putting it back. In the past we have taken toys away. Each time her room is clean it will stay that way for only a few days and then she feels compelled to pull it all out and throw it around her room. You can't even see any of the floor. She has to step over things to get to her bed.
I grounded her yesterday. Told her she couldn't watch any t.v and had to stay in her room until it was clean. Only to come out to potty and eat. Last night when putting her to bed, an hour earlier than normal, that she needed to start right after breakfast on cleaning so she would not have to stay all day in her room.
I have pleaded with her. Threatened to cancel our thursday playdate that is going to be here. I spanked her this morning when she told me she didn't care and wasn't going to clean her room. One of our close friends called almost an hour ago and asked if she could come get her to take her to the park with her DD. I agreed and though perfect, this will get her motivated. I am willing to barter. I explained to her that she had 30 minutes to clean and then I would come in and see what she has done and help clean it up so that she could go with her friend. 10 minutes in and she was laying on her bed looking at a book.
I do not know what to do at this point. I have her sitting in the time out chair right now. She's been there 15 minutes. I don't know how long is too long. I don't think she has ever been in time out this long. But at least I don't have to look at her! I know that sounds awful but I am so upset. I feel even more ridiculous being this upset about it, which makes me even more upset.
I feel like if I go and clean her room then she has won.She has to learn some responsibility and cleaning her room is where we think it should begin. I don't know which of us is more stubborn at this point.
I am looking for any and all advice. Even those of you who may think I am a bad parent. At this point I just need to know how to handle it. DH is at work and can't call me back. TIA

 

Why don't you try picking one category of thing you wouldn't mind throwing out, (like Polly Pocket dolls) give her 15 minutes to clean up that one time (or at least make a good dent in it) and if she does nothing, march in her room, collect the item and proceed to throw it out. You need to make sure she is in her room watching you do it. Then tell her she has 1 hour to clean up the next category, and do the same thing if she doesn't listen.

Then if you end up getting rid of stuff, don't replace it anytime soon. She is testing you (you already know that), so don't give in. If you throw down the gauntlet, make sure you don't turn around and pick it up.

Good Luck!

 

I am the pick your battles kind of mom and honestly this is one I would not have chosen to fight. Sure we pick up their room but I do it with them (they are 7). Yes, they have certain things around their house that they must do individually but I personally do not think their rooms are with this much of an extreme.

I think you are doing great if it stay clean for a few days!!! I think you need to remember she is just barely about to be 4. If I didn't know her age from your post I really would have thought you were talking about a much older child.

I haven't done time outs in a very long time but I always heard the 1 minute per age which would mean the 15 minutes is very long for an almost 4 year old.

JMHO!

 

This will sound harsh, but it as worked for me and my boys are 4.

"Whatever is still on the floor (After the time alotted you give her to clean) is going in the trash. Get a trash bag (You dont have to actually "throw" them away), and start filling it up. Keep doing it. Let her plead with you. Fill the bag up. Tie it and bring it to your trash bins outside (Baring they are not on a curb ready to be taken). Simply say this:

"I am not your miad. I do not clean YOUR messes. If you cannot clean your toys up and take care of them properly, the garbage man takes them, and you will NEVER see them again".

Fill up every toy in bags, let her see you bring them. If she in inwaivered, keep them out there. When shes in bed, put them somewhere she cannot find them (Like an attic or something). The next day show her. "Look, the garbage man took all your toys." Let her cry over it for a while. Once she realizes they are not coming back, she will start to loose it. Once you have decided she has learned, bring things back little at a time. If she cant clean up 5 babries, she cant clean up 20. If she still does not clean them up, take them away again. If she asks where you got them tell her, "I had to call the garbage man to see if he still had them".

I know its hard, but she is manipulating you. She will do WHATEVER she has to to get her way.

I hope this helps you. Its helped me when I wanted to loose it too. Good luck.

 

Thanks, these are things we have done. I think venting and letting me tell someone how I was feeling let me get rid of some of my aggrivation. I feel much better. I have let her out of time out. I am allowing her to go with our friends. I am not sure what I am going to do about the room but I like the suggestions. I just think her going to the park will do us both some good.

 

Yeah for you letting her go to the park. It will give you both a breather.

I have one girl who is just like your dd...mine are almost 6 1/2 though. I am to the point now...to start removing toys...now that they are older and can really understand the consequences.

It is hard sometimes.

 

QUOTE(HopeforFuture @ May 12 2009, 03:30 PM) [snapback]1310613[/snapback]
Why don't you try picking one category of thing you wouldn't mind throwing out, (like Polly Pocket dolls) give her 15 minutes to clean up that one time (or at least make a good dent in it) and if she does nothing, march in her room, collect the item and proceed to throw it out. You need to make sure she is in her room watching you do it. Then tell her she has 1 hour to clean up the next category, and do the same thing if she doesn't listen.

Then if you end up getting rid of stuff, don't replace it anytime soon. She is testing you (you already know that), so don't give in. If you throw down the gauntlet, make sure you don't turn around and pick it up.

Good Luck!


I totally agree with this and have done it in the past. Now, I just have to threaten them with throwing out toys and they'll get to cleaning up their room...they know I'm not playin'! LOL The boys also know my mottos and can repeat them to anyone who asks: "Mommy is not a maid, Mommy is not a waitress" While she's out with your friend, I would prob go into her room and take toys out and leave the bags where she can see them. Then, once she gets home, show her the bags of toys and do a variation on the above with what another poster mentioned...putting them out with the trash and then once she goes to bed, hiding them, unless you've done this before, then I'd go straight to throwing them out. I know it sounds harsh but if she doesn't see the consequences of her actions, then she's going to continue to do this and fight you on it b/c she knows that you'll break down and give in and she'll win the battle.

 

you mentioned the time out and how long usually 1 minute for each year so would be 4 minutes for your daughter.

Mine are 5 and I find I still need to be with them when putting things away whether they know where its goes or not, if they've refused to help when I'm with them, I usually put the toys in time out for 1 day, so the whole polly pocket bin would sit on top of my fridge, so she can see it but not play with it, that usually helps.

 

My kids are big eaters... so I always have them clean an item or pick up before they get their dinner... now that sounds harsh. I make them work for FOOD!

 

Does she have so many toys that she feels overwhelmed? Maybe you could work together and choose 3 of her fav toys and store the rest if them. In a month, switch out toys. Maybe you could show her that grownups make messes and they need to clean up too. Make an exaggerated effort with her watching. Something like, "Goodness, I sure did make a mess. I think I better clean this up." Or at the end of that sentence, say something about doing something fun after cleaning. Maybe that will motivate her to clean up.

Try using this phrase: When you have cleaned up your room, Then you can go play out side" or whatever is fun for her. This works for my ds quite well.

 

I don't have much to add but I did want to point out that giving her 30 minutes to clean up is probably too long. I'd give her about 5 minutes to clean up. If she knows she's not going to be doing it all day, she might pick a few things up. I think after 5 minutes she would probably forget what she is supposed to be doing. They are still so easily distracted at this age. Every time my boys get assigned to pick up their books, for instance, they just end up sitting and reading.

 

You've gotten wonderful replies. I too have had success with throwing out toys. I say, "These are your toys, if you do not want to help me pick them up, then I will throw them out." I have actually thrown out toys, but I pick things like a cheap car or something broken. And they watch me toss it. And now as soon as I start "collecting things" to toss they're cleaning like madman. lol

 

I always help my girls. I tell them it's clean up time, and we all go into their toy room together. I give them a specific task -- eg, "Bella, you pick up all the blocks. Katy, you pick up all your princesses. I'm going to clean up the crayons." And then we all get to work on the assigned task, while singing the clean up song. I just feel like at their age, it's hard to stay focused on a task, especially if it's really a large one in their eyes. I'm sure your DD sees her own mess and just really does feel that she cannot do it because the mess is too big (nevermind that she made the mess). If you give her one thing to do at a time, and if you are there to help, I think she would be more cooperative. If my girls start to play again in the midst of clean up, while I'm there helping them, I do tell them "well I guess some other kids will really LOVE these toys because if you can't take care of them and put them in their proper place, I'm going to give them to someone else who can take better care of them." That gets them back to task.

 

I do alot more with making the boys keep thier room clean now that they are 8 and 9. I have to be honest, and say, that with Owen, at the age of 4, I closed the bedroom door. I certainly didn't do it for him, and he was absolutley NOT allowed to leave his things in any other room of the house, but at 4-I wasn't gonna win in HIS bedroom. And I have that attitude of "I always win", so taht's saying something that *I* conceded. It's hard, I know-I really, reallyyyyyy like my house to be nice looking all the time. I'd flick through magazines looking at all the pretty little kids bedrooms and get so jealous, even though I knew no little kids actually lived in them. At about 6, we started working into setting a timer for about 15 minutes every Wednesday afternoon and Saturday morning. The rule was (and still is) that it had to be kept clear anough during the week that I could vacuum and whatever got left got pitched. It gets easier when they are in school full time and not constantly at home to drag all their stuff out. And I've done the trash bag thing too. Only I'm enough of a hag that they went to the charity shop and they didn't get them back. But I'm evil. LOL!

 

She is kind of young maybe she is just overwhelmed with everything that needs to be cleaned up. Maybe it is time to tell her that she needs to work on the Barbie's or you will take everything that is on the floor and put it in time out. It doesn't seem to phase her that she is in time out. The typical time out rule is one minute for every year of age. I would give her 15 minutes to get started. If she makes an effort I would start helping her if not I would get a big box or bin and put everything that is on the floor in it. I would then give her a week to try and earn one category of toy back. If she can take care of the toys she has left then she can have her Barbies or whatever category she picks back. Then do the same thing with the next category. I would also tell her that if she doesn't keep her room clean and picked up you will do the same thing with whatever is left on the floor. You may need to go in with her every night and help her straighten up until she gets in a routine and reinforce the one toy out at a time rule. Do you have a room that you could make a playroom and maybe not keep the toys in her room. This way you will have control over how she plays with them. I know that it is difficult but I am going through this with my 13 year old. I have been shoveling out his room and he loses whatever I have to clean up. He is definitely old enough to understand. GL I know it is so frustrating.

Jen

 

QUOTE(j&jtwins @ May 12 2009, 03:48 PM) [snapback]1310723[/snapback]
you mentioned the time out and how long usually 1 minute for each year so would be 4 minutes for your daughter.

Mine are 5 and I find I still need to be with them when putting things away whether they know where its goes or not, if they've refused to help when I'm with them, I usually put the toys in time out for 1 day, so the whole polly pocket bin would sit on top of my fridge, so she can see it but not play with it, that usually helps.


I like this idea.

QUOTE(Neumsy @ May 12 2009, 07:52 PM) [snapback]1311037[/snapback]
. And I've done the trash bag thing too. Only I'm enough of a hag that they went to the charity shop and they didn't get them back. But I'm evil. LOL!


This is cracking me up! :rotflmbo:

While she was gone I did not clean it up. I decided that I would go in there with her tomorrow morning and we would work on cleaning it together. I do see like some one said. sorry I didn't quote it, but that it could be just too overwhelming for her. I didn't realize that before I wasn't seeing it through her eyes. I was just seeing I want it clean and I know she can pick it up. Because I am cleaning the house, taking care of the boys and her, cooking, laundry, etc. she should be able to clean up her room. I think I was just expecting too much from her at this point.

Thanks for all the different points of view. I really needed them.

 

My guys are five and they do alright when I ask them to clean up, but, they miss things and get overwhelmed still and I find I need to follow up, or encourage (great job but you missed x can you get that too) At that age it involved me being more involved with clean up.

 

QUOTE(MeldieB @ May 12 2009, 08:32 PM) [snapback]1311011[/snapback]
I always help my girls. I tell them it's clean up time, and we all go into their toy room together. I give them a specific task -- eg, "Bella, you pick up all the blocks. Katy, you pick up all your princesses. I'm going to clean up the crayons." And then we all get to work on the assigned task, while singing the clean up song. I just feel like at their age, it's hard to stay focused on a task, especially if it's really a large one in their eyes. I'm sure your DD sees her own mess and just really does feel that she cannot do it because the mess is too big (nevermind that she made the mess). If you give her one thing to do at a time, and if you are there to help, I think she would be more cooperative. If my girls start to play again in the midst of clean up, while I'm there helping them, I do tell them "well I guess some other kids will really LOVE these toys because if you can't take care of them and put them in their proper place, I'm going to give them to someone else who can take better care of them." That gets them back to task.


This. I think if you help her get started, rather than suggesting " You start cleaning your room and I'll come help.", it may alleviate some of the issues. My two are five now and even now we'll start tasks together - even if we only spend a few minutes, two pairs (or three pairs) of hands get the job done, and it's a few minutes time spent together. Also directing her to a specific task will make it seem a little less overwhelming. Also maybe suggest she pick 3 or 4 favourite things to keep in her room and box the rest up for now and then switch the toys around later on. Good luck. I know it can be frustrating.

 

My older DD is 4.5 and I wouldnt even think of grounding her. She has no concept of what that means. I only do age appropriate time outs for all of my kids at one minute per year old.

I still help my DD pick up toys. I give her a small task of picking up the puzzle pieces and I pick up something else. We do it together. She has very little concept of time. If I told her she had 30 minutes she would count to 30 and think that was it :lol:

 

Maybe it is all a power struggle with her and instead of threatening her approach it as "I will do this for you today as an award if you go work at picking up your barbies. If she doesn't try then no reward. If she mentions the reward then say sorry you didn't try to pick up your barbies but once you do the reward will come and then just let it go.

Mary

 

QUOTE(daniv @ May 13 2009, 02:25 AM) [snapback]1311096[/snapback]
While she was gone I did not clean it up. I decided that I would go in there with her tomorrow morning and we would work on cleaning it together. I do see like some one said. sorry I didn't quote it, but that it could be just too overwhelming for her. I didn't realize that before I wasn't seeing it through her eyes. I was just seeing I want it clean and I know she can pick it up. Because I am cleaning the house, taking care of the boys and her, cooking, laundry, etc. she should be able to clean up her room. I think I was just expecting too much from her at this point.

I'm glad you've worked out a solution.

I do think you were expecting too much from her (and I make my kids clean up every day, and have since they were around 18 months). If the enitire floor is covered in toys I don't think it matters if she knows where things go, she probably can't organize the task in her mind. To be left alone to get on with it for, what to her is, a long time is a bit unreasonable IMO. Now if you had a situation where it was only one kind of toy tipped out (say she had only been playing with her barbies) I'd expect an almost four year old to be able to handle being sent to pick those up on their own. I think it would still get done more efficiently with supervision though.

I think the advice of pp's had of helping her get started and giving her one task at a time is a great idea (that's what works best here). Also if she is just tipping out all her toys for the fun of it I would limit the number of toys she has in her room. If she's tipping them out as she goes along (playing with them all) then I would start to work on only having 3 or 4 things out at once, and if she wants to play something different after that she has to put something away first.

[SIZE=8pt]Edited to fix spelling[/SIZE]