I can't believe my sleep issues are WORSE NOW!

Discussion in 'The Toddler Years(1-3)' started by dfaut, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. dfaut

    dfaut 30,000-Post Club

    I'm SO finished with this toddler sleep phase, I can't even see straight. How did I go from two babies who slept through the night by 4 mos. and 12 hrs. by 6 mos. to THIS!?!

    They've been in beds for 6 flippin' MOS! You would think this would get better, not worse!! I want to CRY sometimes!!! (And frankly, sometimes I just do cry!)

    First of all, we've shot ourselves in the foot with music and stories on cd in their room (we have a slim device that accesses all of our music from our servers - that thing broke down this weekend -) so now we have NO noise in their room. I think I'll keep it that way and see if I can wean them off of it!!

    They play and come out of the room at bedtime several times before going to bed. I have to sit in there and (who do YOU think falls asleep first? MOMMY!) wait for them to go to sleep - actually Ali does JUST fine with this. Martin works himself up. He sits up, lays down, puts his feet on the wall, turns his pillow over and over and over - just anything to keep him awake because once he lies down for 20 sec. or so he calms down. It's MADDENING!!!

    I know I'm paying karma back for having the good sleepers early - waaahhhhhhhh!!!

    Ok, the big question is....for those that put a lock or held the door closed or a gate or something that prevented the kids from exiting their room, did they just scream and yell and go nuts or what? How did you transition that? Should I have done that before? When Martin gets into his room, he has a lock on the outside and I plan to use it because he's driving me NUTS! I just want to know what to expect. Ali comes into my room in the morning and lays on the floor next to the bed till I wake up (that's a new thing). She's so quiet I don't even hear her. (It's kinda cute!)

    I'M LOOSING MORE OF MY MIND and I DON'T HAVE MUCH LEFT TO LOSE!!! Thanks if you got to the end!
     
  2. carmenandwhittsmom

    carmenandwhittsmom Well-Known Member

    We just put those things on the door that prevents them from opening them. My son has been getting up in the middle of night, coming in our room, then staying up for 2-3 hours chatting and singing. Anyhow, last night was time we used it. He cried when he got to the door. No real yelling just loud crying. Not sure what tonight holds. We are hoping he goes back to sleeping through the night soon.
     
  3. debid

    debid Well-Known Member

    Oh, that sounds miserable. We're not there yet but I plan to turn the knob when they do go to beds so they will start with a locked door. I'm interested to hear from others who have done this.
     
  4. bkimberly

    bkimberly Well-Known Member

    I am so there with you! My life has been **** since we moved them out of cribs. Drew has been a complete bear and there are more nights than not that I cry myself to sleep because I feel like the meanest mom EVER! Now that being said, we just switched them to seperate rooms this week and WOW, what a difference! Drew still takes longer, but nowhere near what he was taking....could it be that Daddy is home too....maybe, but what a difference! We also upped their bedtime to 8Pm and that may be it too!
    Good luck!
     
  5. Minette

    Minette Well-Known Member

    This is secondhand, but I know someone who did this with a singleton. Similar situation -- great sleeper when she was in her crib, big girl bed went great for the first few months, and then it went to ****. Finally the parents started locking her in, and apparently it caused escalation. :huh: She would lie on the floor and pound on the door with her feet (and wake up her baby brother), before eventually falling asleep on the floor or something. After a couple of weeks of this, they removed the lock, and I think once she realized that she was not locked in, things actually got better again. I can't guarantee that she's staying in her room, but at least there's no more foot-pounding.

    So, I don't know if that's an argument in favor of locking them in or against it! But I thought I'd toss it out there in case you find it helpful.

    Is there any way you could put a gate across the door so that they could see out but not actually leave the room? Or would they climb over the gate, or would the frustration just make it worse?

    Good luck! I am so dreading this phase....
     
  6. AlphaBeta

    AlphaBeta Well-Known Member

    No answer here. They don't try to leave the room, but they have gotten progressively worse since we put them in big kid beds. They started off so well too. I wish I could back up to cribs, but I'm sure they'd learn to climb out this time (they never did it before, even by the time we switched at 2 yrs 4 mos).

    We have turned the lock to the outside of the door in case that was an issue, but mostly so they couldn't lock themselves in the room. Our DD is the big problem. She leaves her bed the minute we leave the room and gets into DS's bed an proceeds to create havoc, biting, hiting, stealing, anything she can to cause chaos. He will fall asleep so easily, and sleep much longer, if she'd just leave him alone. We go back in again and again, to no avail. If I sit in there, she stays awake thru any means she can devise in her own bed, much like your DS.

    So, we're separating them this weekend. Giving them each their own room. This will turn our house upside down for a while until we can adjust furniture and stuff, of which we almost have more than the house can hold already. But their needs are more important, and it's very obvious that they need different sleep schedules. And it will separate the problem child from the good sleeper, and hopefully take away a target, so DD can bore herself to sleep w/o troubling DS. She was such an easy baby too, why of why did she have to turn out to be so strong willed about this? Sorry, mini rant of my own!
     
  7. ktfan

    ktfan Well-Known Member

    :hug99: Sleep is the worst issue, isn't it? I'm having issues with Erick and Aaron. They are one year, six days apart but most of the time it seems that they are the twins. Now that they are both in beds, nap and night time are a big party. I'm not sure if you are a proponent of spanking, but we use it sparingly. Getting up or being super loud while in bed are spankable offenses. I give two warnings. The room is dark, door closed and fan on to drown out other house noises. I'll go in twice to say "lay down, be quite, it's night night time". After that I'll do a light swat on the outer thigh when I say "lay down, be quite, it's night night time". I don't stay in the room. Ever. I don't want them to get used to it and guaranteed it would be ME sound asleep on the floor long before they settled down! They've never come out of the room but if they did I'd have no problem putting the door knob cover on or locking it from the outside. There's a monitor in there so I can hear if they need me. Pick a tactic, let them know what you expect, and stick with it. If you can seperate them, they may help too. Good luck and I hth!
     
  8. SweetpeaG

    SweetpeaG Well-Known Member

    Diane, :hug99:

    I'm sorry your having such a rough time. I have no advice, but plenty of sympathy. My boys are sleeping horribly right now (though they were never good sleepers).

    Last night I had screaming triplets (DH too :angry: ) from 12-3am. Nothing I do seems to work. I am losing my mind. :blink:
     
  9. Marieber

    Marieber Well-Known Member

    Oh Diane. :hug99:

    No, I didn't do a lock on the outside, but I seriously considered it. DH was 100% against it though.

    I had been sitting in there reading with my book light since we switched to beds in August. Recently it was getting later and later before they were falling asleep and driving me nuts and I found myself yelling and threatening to take their toys and yuck. Had to change.

    So I've stopped sitting in there, as of THREE nights ago! The first night they cried. The second night they were better. And last night, I did have one escapee, but ultimately they are settling down more quickly. (ETA: interestingly, they are sleeping better, no middle of the night wakings and sleeping later too, since. knock on wood)

    FWIW. I'm hopeful. :mellow: And I feel your pain.

    As for the music, we used to use music (the same exact CD for 3+ years!), but that stopped a couple months ago because they were arguing about the volume (one wanted it louder, one softer) or they would cry to hear a certain song over and over again. Just too annoying. I said no more and that's that.
     
  10. Becky444

    Becky444 Well-Known Member

    Did they go to bed easier if they didnt have a nap? Not tired enough or just want to torture you?

    I would try putting one of those door knobs things on the door.

    Good Luck sweetie!
     
  11. Lindyloo

    Lindyloo Well-Known Member

    I have no idea what to do at this age. This may be the way to go but I'm not sure I saw it on Supernanny or Nanny 911. When the child walked out of the room (they were watching TV) the nanny made them take the child straight back to the bed and put them in, the first time she said "night night...go to sleep". The next time they get up and come out, take them back and just say "night night". The next time put them back and say nothing. Then just keep doing it without looking or talking. It may take 50 times. I think the second night it took twenty times and I think the Mom staying in the room with her back to the child. Granted this was with one child and they were probably older than yours but maybe it's worth getting the book and checking it out. Good luck.
     
  12. ****mws****

    ****mws**** Banned

    diane,
    i had alot of success with sleeping but i also started at a very young age.. 10 months.

    we did routine.. which im sure every parent does.. bath teeth story with milk and bed.

    i then turned on the water from the closest bath faucet.

    when they were tiny i just walkd out the door..

    now that they are over two i walk out the door and turn on the bath water..
    im sorry your cd player broke.. any chance of gettin another one.. or did it make a difference?


    with mine.. they are over two and wanting more extra hugs and kisses.. until i just walk out.. close the door, turn off the hall lights and bathroom lights .. with the bath water still running loudly:)

    they stay in their room and sleep through the night most nights..

    as for my older son.. i did the same process with him.. and my mom SWARES i scarred him for life.

    i would put him in his crib in the same room as my twins.. he would make himself sick so then i had three kids that got woken up when i had to change his clothes and sheets..
    he was 20 months.. not even two.

    i also had to do this process at my moms house when me and the x split.
    my mom was very worried that the kids would be scarred. they now are great sleepers.
    they sleep in any place, any room - but prefertheir own.. as long as they hear bathwater.

    as for my older son.. we moved when he was just 2.5 and he had to learn to sleep in his bed.
    i sat out side of his room and put him in his big boy bed about 5 times a night until he was old enough to ask
    mommy are you going to sleep on the couch.. and every night i fibbed and said yes.
    he knew where i was going to be and would lay in his own bed.

    he still gets up every night and crawls in but he goes to his own bed every night.
    and does it well..

    the moral is find out what is right for your kids and stick with it.. weather its perfect darkness or, bath water, or knowing where you will be incase they need you..

    i feel so blessed to have sleepers.. i hope you find the answers you deserve.
    pm me with questions.
    m
     
  13. hanknbeans

    hanknbeans Well-Known Member

    I am dealing with this for naps currenty, and I want to pull my hair out. When Henry started doing this, we used a child proof lock on the door handle. I sat outside the door and put him back into bed over and over again until he gave it up. Best of luck. I feel your pain!
     
  14. dfaut

    dfaut 30,000-Post Club

    Thanks for all the responses. I am in the process (for mos. now) of getting Martin's room ready to move him in. I need to order a blackout shade for his window soon!! I am going to try to move him this weekend.

    I have been taking them in and putting them back down (the asking for more hugs and kisses thing is getting really old!)

    I'm thinking that when he's in his own room, I'll let him be up and about in there for a little while with the handle locked and I can't decide if I'll leave it locked or not after I go to bed (since it's the early early morning wakings that are killing me!)

    They slept great since 4 mos. till beds! And YES! Sleep is THE worse trouble!! It's always something!
     
  15. twoin2005

    twoin2005 Well-Known Member

    Diane, hang in there. I thought I had it rough the past few weeks, but you win hands down! :)

    Here is a post I made a while ago about a strategy that I learned that worked really well. I changed the name to Martin for your benefit!

    QUOTE
    I learned this strategy at a parenting class a few months ago. We recently put it to work with GREAT success for Hannah.

    Tomorrow morning, when you are not in the heat of the moment, have a chat with Martin about the night time routine. Share with him, "The new rule is...bed time is quiet time," or something to that effect. But use the language "the new rule is...." Be explicit. You get 2 books. Lights out. No getting out of bed. No crying for mom. It should be quiet. Go over this with him. Ask him to explain back to you what the rule is. Have him verbalize the expectations. Do this throughout the day. Get him to do the talking.

    Then at night time, as you are putting him to bed, acknowledge the absence of negative behavior. Do not say, "Good job," or "I am proud of you." Instead, use descriptive praise to acknowledge what he is NOT doing (i.e., "You are not crying. You are not shouting mommy's name. You are not getting out of bed. You are not kicking the wall."). Say it simply without tons of fanfaire. Keep the inflection in your voice minimal. Just acknowledge that he is following the rules by pointing out what he is NOT doing.

    Let me give you more concrete examples by sharing what we are doing with Hannah. Hannah's issue was that she was drawing out the goodbyes at night time and then crying and getting out of bed. So one morning I said to Hannah, "The new rule is, 2 books, prayers, and good night." I explained to her that she could not get out of bed. She could not cry for mommy. Babies cry and she is a big girl. I asked her questions back. "Can you get out of bed?" "Can you read three books?" "Can you cry for more books?" And so on. We revisited this throughout the day. "Hannah, what's the new rule?" By the afternoon, she could explain back to me, in her own words, what the expectations were.

    At night time, as soon as we finished the books, I looked at her and casually observed, "You are not crying." I kept the inflection in my voice minimal, and just shared with her what I was seeing. Her smirk of pride was evident. "You are not getting out of bed," was my next observation. Again, a smirk. That night, she went RIGHT to bed.

    We have had to tweak our rule a bit. She started calling for Daddy instead of mommy, for example. But overall, our nightime routine is easy and has been pretty much tantrum free now for a week. I revisit the rule a few times throughout the day now. And everynight I point out the absence of the negative behavior. "Hannah, you are not crying," as soon as I start to put the books away.

    Anyways, sorry for the novel...just wanted to share a great strategy that has produced wonderful results in our household.


    I really firmly believe that getting them separated will help some. You may want to talk about the "New Rule" for his big kid room and do it all then. Then if that doesn't work, get a lock or a childproof door knob cover, and let him CIO like the good 'ol days. You being in there with him each night until he falls asleep is going to be a habit that is hard to break (I know, I am doing it right now with Ben). But maybe once the kids are in their own rooms it will be easier. Hugs girl. This sounds rough!
     
  16. dfaut

    dfaut 30,000-Post Club

    Thanks Kate!!! Sounds great! My only question is WILL he remember it at 4:00 a.m. when he wanders out of his room ("hungry" or whatever)?! I can get them to bed most nights it's the never knowing if they are going to wake in the night.

    I feel compelled to go in and "cozy" them when I get up to tinkle (usually happens once a night). I am worried that they will get cold (keeping the house at 67 and they are in fleeced footed pj's) and wake early......they inevitably still do. One or the other will wake. Most times it's Martin (these days)....

    Thanks for the advice!!! :hug99:
     
  17. FirstTimeMom814

    FirstTimeMom814 Well-Known Member

    No advice from me as we are still in cribs and your story is part of the reason why. I think Kate's strategy is really great and when we make the big move to full size beds I think I'll steal it from her (just like I stole the paci plan!)
     
  18. debid

    debid Well-Known Member

    Diane, sorry to hijack but I just have to say... Kate, you rock! I was having some bedtime pushback the past few nights. It's from when they were sick and I did let them get away with a little that they wouldn't normally. Well, they expected that to continue... I employed your technique starting when they were all happy and well before bedtime. We went over exactly what the "new" routine is and I had them repeat it back to me. We talked about it a few times. When bedtime came, it went BEAUTIFULLY. :bow2:
     
  19. 2XBlessed+1Angel

    2XBlessed+1Angel Well-Known Member

    We have always closed our boy's bedroom door at bedtime so they were used to that. When we switched to toddler beds just 3 weeks ago, we also switched the door handle around so the lock is on the outside. Once they do fall asleep they usually sleep all night but they tend to wake up a little early some mornings. (I don't go in to get them until 8). We didn't want to take any chances on them getting out of their room since it is upstairs AND lately they are getting into EVERYTHING!!! :eek:
     
  20. Amy A

    Amy A Well-Known Member

    I didn't read everyone's responses but wanted to share our story with you - sorry if it's a repeat! Our boy's have always been horrible sleepers, and unfortunatly they still aren't that great - but much improved from infancy. Once we switched to beds, we moved them to seperate bedrooms because they would keep each other up. We also took EVERYTHING out of their rooms, EXCEPT the mattress, blanket, pillow, and a few stuffed animals (and their mattresses are just on the floor - no beds yet). The would keep coming out of their rooms too, so we put the childproof door knobs on the inside of their door. But they figured out how to take those off in no time flat. So evenutally we turned the door knobs around so we could lock them in their rooms. Yes, they scream/kick the door/cry - ect. But they eventually go to sleep, and I can't handle the constant getting out of their rooms. We also use their rooms for time outs, and close the door. So they don't like the door closed due to the fact they associate it with time out. This has worked in our favor, and Josh no longer gets out of his room and we leave the door open. Noah still won't stay in his room. We give him 1-2 chances to stay in his room with the door open, and if he comes out we shut in him in his room. It may not sound the best, but it works for us right now. I have two very spiritied children and sleep is always a challenge. So I need to do what i must to keep my sanity too.
     
  21. BRMommy

    BRMommy Well-Known Member

    The rule in our house is that they must stay in their bed under the covers with no toys except for their favorite lovey. If I hear them getting out of the bed or playing with their toy, their lovey gets taken away. Usually the threat of taking their lovey is enough to keep them in bed. If that doesn't work, I go in to their room and take away their favorite toys. On a particularly bad night, I have separated them into different rooms but that has only happened once.

    Usually the kids stay in their beds and chat for about 20-30 minutes but fall asleep after that. At this age, they know what the rules are and know what the consequences are too.
     
  22. dfaut

    dfaut 30,000-Post Club

    Last night was better. They came out once after I put them down and that was it, but they went to be late and after a bath and after little or no nap. SO.... exhaustion worked in my favor last night. BUT at 4:00 a.m. DS got up and was crying crying crying, he needed a bandaid - (must have been dreaming.) I put him in bed after I hugged him and asked where he needed his bandaid and he said it's gone - so I think it was a dream. But he actually just went STRAIGHT back to sleep!! Unbelievable. I got lucky last night! We'll see what tonight brings.

    I think I am waiting till DH is home for switching Martin into his own room. I want back up with that system!! :D
     
  23. NicoleT

    NicoleT Well-Known Member

    Kate, thanks for the "novel" as you put it. ;) I am going to try this with Blake and see if it works. You rock girl!
     
  24. melissao

    melissao Well-Known Member

    I know my sister reversed the handles/locks on her kids' doors. We haven't had a problem with ours coming out of the room. We have had a problem lately with bedtime requests though! I like Kate's suggestions!
     
  25. JDMummy

    JDMummy Well-Known Member

    Kate, great post! Di, we never locked John in but we did use a gate at his door because I was so incredibly worried that he would get up at night and go out the front door. He never was upset about it though because he had his nightlight and his door open to the hallway and us in the next room.

    We also have had a family bed with John anyway, so when he is upset or has a nightmare, which he does, he used to come into our room and just climb into bed with us. It wasn't every night and he doesn't do it at all now... just stopped on his own. The twins never have slept with us so I don't know what will happen with them. And I am not going to find out because they are sleeping in those cribs til they are 3! Dang it! :p

    Good luck hun. Glad to hear last night was better. :hug99:
     
  26. dfaut

    dfaut 30,000-Post Club

    Sleep Update from last night!!!

    Martin slept in his bed (after he finally stayed in it around 8:30) ALL NIGHT LONG!!!! He didn't wake till 7:20 this morning. Could operation EXHAUSTION be working?

    Ali was up at 5:20 a.m. and I hugged her tight and put her back to bed (I am pretty sure she came un-cozied) and covered Martin up (who had his arms and legs tucked up under him so tight that he looked like a little baby) and went back to bed. Ali stayed in bed till 7:00!!

    Can I get a WOOOO HOOOOO?! :a_smil09: Can I get a :banana: :banana: ??!

    Thanks for listening everyone!!! :hug99:
     
  27. FirstTimeMom814

    FirstTimeMom814 Well-Known Member

    QUOTE(~* dfaut *~ @ Jan 4 2008, 09:21 AM) [snapback]557211[/snapback]
    Sleep Update from last night!!!

    Martin slept in his bed (after he finally stayed in it around 8:30) ALL NIGHT LONG!!!! He didn't wake till 7:20 this morning. Could operation EXHAUSTION be working?

    Ali was up at 5:20 a.m. and I hugged her tight and put her back to bed (I am pretty sure she came un-cozied) and covered Martin up (who had his arms and legs tucked up under him so tight that he looked like a little baby) and went back to bed. Ali stayed in bed till 7:00!!

    Can I get a WOOOO HOOOOO?! :a_smil09: Can I get a :banana: :banana: ??!

    Thanks for listening everyone!!! :hug99:


    That's great Diane!!! :banana: :banana: :banana: :yahoo:
     
  28. NicoleT

    NicoleT Well-Known Member

    Yay! Glad you had a good night!! :banana: :banana:
     
  29. frain2005

    frain2005 Well-Known Member

    Glad to see they are sleeping better....so far!

    I am afraid to move to beds for the fact of them getting out of bed. We live in a 2 story, and I am pertified of them getting up and coming downstairs alone, or falling down the stairs. Austin has climbed out of his crib once already...but only once. Shawnee has tried but she is too chunky to get her body over the side. We put 2 baby gates up at their door. They would climb over if we used just one, so we use 2. I am afraid to lock them in because if their was a fire or something I don't know if they would get out as fast. I also put on one of those child proof door knob covers, and Austin figured it out within minutes, so the baby gates are our only option right now. Look for my "Why did I ever think about putting them in big beds" post in a couple of months. We will be transitioning over the summer ...I THINK?

    Hope your little ones contimue to stay in bed and SLEEP!
     
  30. JDMummy

    JDMummy Well-Known Member

    That is awesome Di! :a_smil09:
     
  31. prairiemom3

    prairiemom3 Well-Known Member

    I did have to lock the door from the outside with my first DD as NOTHING else would make her understand to stay in her bed. It was hard, she slept on the floor the first night but that was it, she knew then that if she got up I would lock the door and she didn't get up anymore. She was 2 and a bit. Good luck! ps, I didn't read through the other posts.

    wanted to add - my dd got up and into the fridge one night, broke all the eggs on the floor, etc. Another night she left the house. That's when I locked the door. I am soooooo lucky nothing happened to her.
     
  32. twoin2005

    twoin2005 Well-Known Member

    :banana: Martin! :banana: :banana: Ali :banana: :banana: Diane :banana: :banana: Sleep! :banana:
     
  33. Rose524

    Rose524 Well-Known Member

    I don't mean to sound like the worry wart of the group, and maybe someone else already mentioned this and I missed it, but...I would hesitate to look the children in their rooms at night.

    I would put up a gate either in the doorway or hallway so that they can't roam the house at night, but I think of the horrible things that could happen during the night and a child locked behind a door.... I know it is scary to think about and maybe even unlikely. But I would advise against it. Just my two cents. Hope things work out for you!!
     
  34. 4jsinPA

    4jsinPA Well-Known Member TS Moderator

    QUOTE
    We just put those things on the door that prevents them from opening them. My son has been getting up in the middle of night, coming in our room, then staying up for 2-3 hours chatting and singing.

    We had those things on the door and my kids got it off so quickly. For the doors downstairs we duct taped them back together but for the kids door we turned the lock around. As far as being worried about a child behind a locked door, most of the time I go and unlock the door after they go to sleep.
    We are having terrible issues with Kenna and sleep right now too. She screams and screams. I wish we could find something to help her sleep. She hasn't slept through the night but maybe 30 times since she was born. We may separate them too bc it really affects Mitchell's sleep too.
     
  35. ktfan

    ktfan Well-Known Member

    Yay Diane! I'm glad things are getting better!

    About the below quote, I do understand the concern. The way I think about it is that it's no different then the child being in a crib. IF my child is locked in their room, I have a monitor in there so I can hear everything. The same with my kids in cribs. I make sure I can hear them so that I can be right there if something happens.

    QUOTE(Rose524 @ Jan 5 2008, 01:37 AM) [snapback]558179[/snapback]
    I don't mean to sound like the worry wart of the group, and maybe someone else already mentioned this and I missed it, but...I would hesitate to look the children in their rooms at night.

    I would put up a gate either in the doorway or hallway so that they can't roam the house at night, but I think of the horrible things that could happen during the night and a child locked behind a door.... I know it is scary to think about and maybe even unlikely. But I would advise against it. Just my two cents. Hope things work out for you!!
     
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