How to develop self sufficiency?

Our boys are almost 4 and they seem to have learned to play us. Especially on the weekends when I'm home! Well, to be fair, my wife said that yesterday (Friday) was a really tough morning, but on the weekends when I am at home more consistenty we notice that the boys really seem to require more attention and have no sense of self sufficiency. How can we get them to find some peace on their own?!!

This morning, I came down to make breakfast--and J quickly followed but wanted food immediately. I explained that it wasn't going to be ready for a while and that he needed to be patient. He didn't accept that as an answer and just started demanding to have the food right then. Somehow when I managed to get him distracted with something else, he then needed me to draw a picture for him--he refused to draw a picture on his own. (bTw, I did not draw a picture as I was too busy cooking and then the tantrum started.) Such strife!

Any ideas on how we can get these guys to learn some patience or be able to develop a focus on somehting when we don't have the bandwidth to provide attention, or develop some coping mechanisms for patience, etc? Or is this just the age...

We need to try something differnt. Any advice is appreciated! Thanks! /Joel

 

I wouldn't say they are playing you


Mine just a touch older than yours & are usually quite hungry when they wake up.

What time do they normally eat? If the time is consistent during the week, I would just keep it the same on the weekend. All of my children are used to eating between 7 - 7:30. On weekends their bodies still get hungry at the same time. If you are feeding later, why not give them a piece of fruit/cup of dry cereal/yogurt to tide them over until breakfast is ready. I wouldn't make it a big snack if you are eating right away - just something that goes with breakfast.

4 yr olds have only so much patience and yours sound like they are probably very in line with all others their age.

To play on their own on a Sat or Sun am so you get a few extra minutes, my suggestion is to have a Saturday(& maybe a Sunday) box/bag. This is something you put out the night b4 after they are in bed so that they wake up to it. Either fill it with something new each week(surprise!) or make it something they only get to play with on that day (don't bring it out any other time). This will make it fun & something they will soon learn to anticipate.

My last suggestion is when they want/need you - STOP whatever you are doing & give them your undivided attention for just a minute or two(doesn't have to be a long time). Often that will be all they require and then you can continue on your way. If you are gone all week, sometimes they just need you to show they that they are your #1.


Patience is something even most adults struggle with.

 

For this particular issue, I would offer some fruit (strawberries, blueberries, grapes, a banana, raisins-something they can actually feed themselves) while I prepared the meal. I know my husband gives them a cup of dry cereal in the morning. He lets them watch tv while he gets things going. You may be aginst tv, but I find that sometimes they watch it, and sometimes they end up finding other things to do.
For self-sufficiency in general, you may have to get them started on something. Once they are engaged, you can do what you need to do, I choose things I know they like, which are quiet or solitary like Leapfrog or a puzzle. I'll take out Lincoln logs or blocks and suggest some imaginative things I think they'd like(make a park or a castle), and gradually I move on. Good luck!

 

My twins were the same way. I would go ahead & play, but then sneak off. They just needed me to get them started.

 

I agree w/ advice.

Also, I involve my kids with helping prepare food, drinks, etc. setting up an activity, getting ready to leave, dressing themselves, etc.

It may take longer or be messier, but they feel like they are part of the family and that's good for them to have small responsibilities.

For example: Before we leave the house, I always go to the bathroom. I tell them "mommy has to go potty, you try too". This way they have something to do while I'm doing what I need to do. When they ask for drinks, i ask them to bring me the cup. I poor the liquid, but they have to retrieve the cup. I'm not a waiter. make sense?

 

At almost four, they can totally start learning to do stuff for themselves! (In fact, that could be part of their frustration-lack of control)
BUT, you have to have the patience and take the time to teach them and supervise them. At this age, I started teaching Owen how to make a very simple sandwich, or get himself a banana and how to pour cereal and milk/juice. By the time he was 7 he was able to make his own breakfast if he was supervised. Last year, I started keeping simple breakfast things (cereal and the toaster and the bread and peanut butter) in a low cabinet so he can get at it himself. So, if you start now slowly with small things, you'll have a fairly responsible, self reliant kid. However, you have to realize it takes time, and you have to be teaching it for the right reasons. Meaning, you have to be teaching them to do things for themselves because it's age appropriate and they want to learn, not because they're being pushed aside for younger siblings, or because you want to sleep longer. (I'm not saying that's what you're doing, at all!)
As far as wanting immediate attention, I know thirteen year olds that are like that! Lol...you just have to stick to your guns, and make them wait. Callen's right, kids do wake up genuinely starvin' and keeping some cereal bars, or something healthy like that can go a long way toward avoiding morning meltdowns.
I think you're 100% right to want to start teaching some self reliance now. I've seen the difference. I have a 9 yo DSS who still has to be supervised while brushing his teeth, and can't pour himself a cup of milk. It's not his fault, but he's just been so sheltered that he's never learned to do anything for himself.

 

Yes, it's NOW NOW NOW!!!! I feel your pain!!

I actually keep a Special K bar for each next to my bed. (90 cals, tastes great!) This buys me time to slowly wake, brush teeth, potty etc. THEN we can go down and have more breakfast if they want it. Sometimes they need it in an hour!

But, I make them wait for stuff all the time - thinking that would help them learn to wait - :nea: didn't.... So, I keep trying!! Just know that you are NOT ALONE!!!

 

This isn't a direct response to your question, but since you mentioned it was especially bad on weekends, I thought I'd throw this in...

DH and I both work full-time and the kids are in daycare, and I posted once saying I was so frustrated that they could never play by themselves for 5 minutes on weekends. I know they don't need adult interaction ALL the time because the ratio in the daycare room is 12:2. But many people pointed out that their neediness on weekends was probably largely because they missed us and wanted to spend time with us. This was actually sort of a relief for me to realize, because it helped me see that we weren't doing anything wrong in the way that we handled things -- it was just natural and expected for them to be very demanding of our attention. So this may be part of what's going on with your guys too.

As far as practical suggestions -- mine are a bit younger, but I find that they can deal better when I tell them when I can do whatever they want. I.e., rather than "I can't help you draw a picture, I need to cook right now," it goes down better if I say "I'm going to cook for 10 more minutes until the eggs are done, and then we'll eat breakfast, and then I'll help you draw a picture." If I'm not really explicit, they don't necessarily grasp the fact that my busy-ness is temporary -- they just think I'm saying "No, I won't help you."

I also do the same thing with helping them get started with something, then wandering casually away. HTH!

 

You've gotten some really great suggestion. My girls are just over 4. They are still very self centered at this age. It's about their immediate needs and wants, at least, in their eyes. I have to constantly remind my girls, we can do x after z. We are waiting now. It's not our turn. You do it. Try again. Your turn. I will help you after x. etc... Keep your explanations simple. They don't care about all the details, unless they ask for them. Give them something to do to help. While cooking, give them utensils and ask them to put them on the table. Ask them to count the forks as they put them at the places. Hand them napkins and have them do it again. Then ask them how many cups you need and for whom. Have them ask family members what they would like to drink at the meal. Let them help. This not only engages their attention, but they are participating in the activity at an age appropriate level and learning while getting that much needed attention. Also, explain some of what you are doing for them. Just talking to them and having a conversation with them can delay a tantrum. "Daddy's making eggs. You like to eat eggs don't you? Do you like toast with your eggs? Eggs come from chickens. What do chickens say? Chickens live on a farm. What other animals are on a farm?" Yeah, it's tedious and sometimes it gets old, but they want to feel included. It's a tough spot, the preschool years. Not a baby anymore, but not a big kid.

 

All fabulous suggestions! I can't wait for my wife to view these so we can discuss them! Not only are the suggestions all good, but your answers encompass a whole range of possibilities!

I don't have time to write a complete response so I'll just focus on what hits me at the moment. I do believe that I need to try and involve the boys more--I need to figure out ways of doing that (I think my wife is much better at that than I) and there are some good suggestions here. For now I'll mention that I do offer great clarity and tell the boys things like "I can help you in 5 minutes after I've finished with this," but the response I get oftentimes is "Ahhhhhhggggg, I need you to draw a picture of a lighthouse NOW, Ahhhhhhhhggggg!"

Anyway, I'm sure you can all relate! You probably notice that I usually put more thought and time into my questions than I do my followups: That's because I'm so desparate for your help and take your ideas so seriously--I can't often followup because we're either implementing ideas we learn from here or the boys (and we) have moved on to the next stage!

Thank you all so much! /Joel

PS--If you're curious, you can take a look at my "Poop Tantrums" post in the potty training section. When I finish typing here, I'm curious to see if anyone has responded to that one yet!

 

Heck, April you give GREAT responses and such good advice!!! I love it!

I have learned a lot from this thread, so thanks for posting it Joel!! We don't have as many issues with kids our age addressed because people don't post as many (as they are BUSY BUSY BUSY).

 

I'm going to be the voice of dissent here.

Joel, our boys are somewhat close in age (mine will be 4 in July), and I have been on this board for four years now. I've moved from the Expecting Twins forum to the Early Days forum and now to the 1-4 forum. There are many posters and their children on here who I am familiar with simply because we've all been on here from the get-go. I have read your topics over the years on your struggles with the boys. Struggles over frequent night wakings, refusing to sleep in their own beds, night feedings that went on forever, hitting you and your wife, temper tantrum issues, aggression, etc...

In no way do I want to single you out or make you feel bad. But you specifically wonder whether or not they are "playing you."

In reply, I would have to say yes. I think they have been playing you for a very, very long time.

I think there are some kids who are completely easygoing and when they are asked to do something, they do it. No questions asked, no boundaries tested. It just doesn't occur to them. I have one of these; his name is Jake.

I also have his exact opposite, ironically his twin brother. His name is Ben. Ben walks the line every moment of his life. Every interaction is a test of boundaries, an implied question of "What are you going to do if I do this?" He's passive aggressive and defiant and contrary. To this day we still have to be very careful and quick about dealing with any (rare) night wakings that he has because he wants you to be in there with him and will do whatever it takes to keep you there. He sometimes does things just to be mean, and he's very clever about acting up when we have company. He was a nightmare to potty train. We call him Mr. Difficult.

At home, both of our boys are fairly easy to deal with and independent. They play alone, they play together, and they're generally not needy. Take them to my parents' home when my dad is there, and you have two completely different kids, especially Ben. My dad loves those boys so much that he can't stand to say no, to turn them away, to disappoint them, to discourage them, to put his foot down. Why are you fussy? You want me to play with you? Okay, we'll play.... Okay boys, we've played for an hour now, you go do something. No, boys, I need to go eat my dinner. Okay, you want to sit on my lap and eat dinner with me? You want something else to eat? Okay, hold on....

There are no boundaries, no limitations. Only a grown man trying to reason with two 3yos instead of saying no and meaning it. It can be absolutely miserable to be at their house for an extended period of time because at our house we just don't operate like that. If my boys were raised in that environment 24/7, I shudder to think what they'd currently be like.

As a result, they run roughshod all OVER him and he is exhausted within an hour.

I realize I'm probably going to catch a lot of grief for saying any of this, but I have to. I've seen your posts over the years and honestly I think all of this is just going to get worse for you guys unless you take a stand against the fact that, in many situations, your kids seem to have taken you hostage in your own home. In general, it sounds like they don't need more understanding on your part; they need more discipline. There is a difference between giving a child what he wants and giving him what he needs.

For those who think I sound cruel or harsh, I will tell you that in my personal experience with Ben, he is a much happier, respectful, calm child when he's in an environment where he knows exactly what's expected of him and the boundaries are very, very clear. In fact, yesterday at the lunch table he threw a fit over what I had fixed him. After being promptly punished (usually a timeout, but this time he was spanked for getting down-- yes, we spank), he literally dried his own tears, gave me a big smile and hug and sat down to calmly eat his lunch and be rewarded with dessert.

Again, I'm not trying to attack you in any way. I just feel this needs to be said.

 

Thanks so much to everyone for all the great advice, support and encouragement! There are a lot of great ideas here on how to provide our children with more of the tools for developing a greater independence and I've already started incorportating some of them!

And thank you to kt7777776 for expressing yourself after apparently suffering through my previous posts. I'm so glad that I revisted this post to discover your reply and I'm pleased that you've taken such a keen interest in all my posts over the last few years.

I'm also flattered by your comparison of me and your father. It is fortunate for the both of us that hapless and unstructured fathers like myself somehow manage to raise happy and well adjusted children in spite of themselves. /Joel