Help Rework our schedule?

Ok, so I posted earlier needing nap help and support for CIO. And the biggest problem I'm going to have implementing any real changes is that we're on such a wonky schedule and they ALWAYS get overtired between naps. I've tried to get things done sooner and faster, and I just can't. So, want to help me reconfigure things?

7 month old boys, btw.

Currently:
Wake up around 5. We've been letting them fuss/play in their cribs until 6, unless someone sounds really hungry.
Bottles at 6.
Nap (held or in bouncy/swing) until 7 or 7:30.
Play.
At 9, feed Daniel (solids and bottle). Put him down for nap. By halfway through the feed, Andrew is screaming and obviously tired.
Feed Andrew somewhere between 9:30 and 10. Solids, if he'll take it, and/or a bottle. Lately he's been too tired and upset to take the solids. Rock him for 20 minutes (reflux), try to put him down.
Sometimes they'll nap, sometimes they won't. If they won't, let them up to play starting at 11 or 11:30.
12:30ish Bottle for Daniel
1:30-2 Solids for Andrew/Bottle if he wants it.
Try to get them to nap. Anywhere, anyhow.
3:30-4 Bottle for Daniel
5 Bottle for Andrew
Usually try to squeeze a half hour nap in.
8 Bottles and bed; down by 9.

Any times unaccounted for are play times or me desperately trying to get them to sleep, depending on moods.
Things that can't be changed:
Daniel needs 5 bottles plus 1-2 solid meals a day. Andrew needs 4-5 bottles plus 2-3 solids per day.
Feeding times can't overlap, except the first in the morning and the last at night.
Feeding Daniel takes 15ish minutes for solids; 30-45 minutes for a bottle. (Yes, I know, he should be faster, but he's not.) We aim for 3-4 hours between feeds; solids immediately precede a bottle, as per pedi instructions.
Feeding Andrew is 15ish minutes for solids; anywhere from 10-40 minutes for a bottle. (Depends on if he's fussing.)
Bedtime routine can't start before 7 PM.
They share a room, but not a crib. I'd prefer naps in cribs at this stage, but so far that's happened only a handful of times, ever.

Pretty much anything else I'm willing to change, if it means not tearing my hair out for every nap and having overtired babies ALL the time.

So, any suggestions as to how to rearrange things so that they're getting all their food, but getting enough sleep that they're not overtired?

Thanks!

 

What would happen if you fed Andrew his bottle first? Sounds like he is pretty fast when not fussy, which would let you get to Daniel quicker. Could you at least do solids at the same time? Start Daniel earlier if he needs to be first so Andrew doesn't get so upset? IDK - just thoughts.

 

Andrew would reject it - he's not hungry enough after only 3 hours, usually. I've tried.

Solids can't overlap either. Daniel has an aversion to the high chair, which results in him violently throwing up. We haven't figured out why yet, so pedi, nutrionist, and I reworked the goal to just eating solids well in my lap and then sitting in the high chair without eating, until he's good on both.

Yeah. It complicates matters to do ALL the feedings separately. It's my sticking point in figuring it out on my own!

 

QUOTE(cat419 @ Jul 17 2008, 01:13 PM) [snapback]881598[/snapback]
Ok, so I posted earlier needing nap help and support for CIO. And the biggest problem I'm going to have implementing any real changes is that we're on such a wonky schedule and they ALWAYS get overtired between naps. I've tried to get things done sooner and faster, and I just can't. So, want to help me reconfigure things?

7 month old boys, btw.

Currently:
Wake up around 5. We've been letting them fuss/play in their cribs until 6, unless someone sounds really hungry.
Bottles at 6.
Nap (held or in bouncy/swing) until 7 or 7:30.
Play.
At 9, feed Daniel (solids and bottle). Put him down for nap. By halfway through the feed, Andrew is screaming and obviously tired.
Feed Andrew somewhere between 9:30 and 10. Solids, if he'll take it, and/or a bottle. Lately he's been too tired and upset to take the solids. Rock him for 20 minutes (reflux), try to put him down.
Sometimes they'll nap, sometimes they won't. If they won't, let them up to play starting at 11 or 11:30.
12:30ish Bottle for Daniel
1:30-2 Solids for Andrew/Bottle if he wants it.
Try to get them to nap. Anywhere, anyhow.
3:30-4 Bottle for Daniel
5 Bottle for Andrew
Usually try to squeeze a half hour nap in.
8 Bottles and bed; down by 9.

Any times unaccounted for are play times or me desperately trying to get them to sleep, depending on moods.
Things that can't be changed:
Daniel needs 5 bottles plus 1-2 solid meals a day. Andrew needs 4-5 bottles plus 2-3 solids per day.
Feeding times can't overlap, except the first in the morning and the last at night.
Feeding Daniel takes 15ish minutes for solids; 30-45 minutes for a bottle. (Yes, I know, he should be faster, but he's not.) We aim for 3-4 hours between feeds; solids immediately precede a bottle, as per pedi instructions.
Feeding Andrew is 15ish minutes for solids; anywhere from 10-40 minutes for a bottle. (Depends on if he's fussing.)
Bedtime routine can't start before 7 PM.
They share a room, but not a crib. I'd prefer naps in cribs at this stage, but so far that's happened only a handful of times, ever.

Pretty much anything else I'm willing to change, if it means not tearing my hair out for every nap and having overtired babies ALL the time.

So, any suggestions as to how to rearrange things so that they're getting all their food, but getting enough sleep that they're not overtired?

Thanks!


Hmmm... I gotta think about this some more. With the schedule you have and the fact that they do not eat at the same time, makes things a little tricky.
off the bat, I would say, could you move their schedule up 30 minutes? I would aim for naps no more then two hours after waking (that seems to work best for our twosome). I'm thinking if you can move things up 30 minutes (say, feed Daniel at 8:30 am and hopefully be able to start Andrew by 9:30...) you might be able to avoid overtiredness during the day.

 

Sounds like they're overtired. I wouldnt push the solids, if they dont want them thats fine, they get everything they need from their bottle.
First off I would get them on the same schedule. And for their bottles, try putting them both in a swing or bouncer in front of you so you can feed them both at the same time. Same with solids, feed them both at same time, if they dont want it then dont push it.

And getting them taking longer naps. Do a nap routine and put them in their crib at X time, at 7mo all the rocking etc is only going to be harder to break later. They have self soothing skills, teach them to use them.

 

:hug99: I have a couple of suggestions. I would suggest trying to get them to eat at the same time. This may help the schedule seem less wonky. Also, be on the lookout for any signs of sleepiness and try to get them down right away. This will help them from becoming overtired.

 

They CAN'T eat at the same time. It's not me, it's them. Daniel, more specifically. He needs a LOT of head support and manipulation. Not to mention the blowing on his face, calling his name, and rubbing his chin, while watching for signs of him gagging and vomitting. It's a 2-handed, full-attention operation, every time. It's not like I haven't TRIED to do it one-handed, it just isn't a successful feeding method for us. And as I've said, the high chair just isn't working for him.

All that, btw, is to get a whopping 20 oz in him per day. We're pushing solids because the more used to that he gets, the less he gags on his formula. And it doesn't detract from his formula intake (proving he IS hungrier than 20 oz per day), and he needs all the calories we can get in him.

So really, feeding individually is non-negotiable.

 

Is he on reflux meds? Because it doesnt sound like they are working if he is.

Also what their adjusted age because at 7mo they should have head control. And is the distraction while drinking milk or eating solids?

 

Here are my suggestions, FWIW (I totally understand the long feedings and the feeding individually--mine don't have severe issues, but feeding them is a chore every day):

Since you're starting CIO anyway: after the 6 am bottle (or even at 5 am when they first wake), feed them but keep the lights off. Darken the nursery if you need to. Put the babies back to bed and walk away until 8 AM. (I assume you have DH to help you with this feed, so it can go faster). e.g., treat it like a true night-time feed.

Since it's hard to feed them both (but esp Daniel), focus on the bottle feeding first(I agree with cohlee that solids can take a back burner). Try to keep with a 2 hour awake rule... so during that awake time, just toggle back from baby to baby getting their bottles finished. Can daniel be kept in an upright bouncy for his reflux to free your hands while your not feeding him?

Once the two hours are up from the time their last nap/awake ended, put them back down. Use a 90 minute rule--don't go in to get them for at least 90 minutes (unless they absolutely refused to eat at teh previous feed).

Give them solids at the evening feed only for a while (when you have DH there to help).

I really think once they are getting more sleep (learn to self-soothe), the eating will improve--then you can do solids during the day.

Just give yourself a week to focus on the sleep, then focus on improving the feeding.

I'm sorry it's so difficult--we all wish we could give more hands-on help!

Also, would it help to do a dream feed on daniel around 10 or 10:30, before you go to bed to help him get calories?

 

It's actually not his head control that's the problem. (6 months adjusted.) He's easily distracted - he'd rather do pretty much ANYTHING other than eat. Solids, bottles, whatever. And he has a really sensitive gag reflex, so it's not just reflux, it's if he loses his rhythm too. And the non-drip nipples are too hard for him. I mean, really, we've been through EVERY type of nipple with him. He just needs to be held steady and coached through each feed. And forced to stay awake enough to eat a reasonable amount - he'll fall asleep JUST to avoid eating. Even if he JUST woke up.

We've worked with EI on his feeding issues. They've got nothing. Their people couldn't even get 2 oz into him before giving up. They said to just keep on what we're doing, because it works. They and pedi suggested really working the solids, 1-2 times per day, and before a bottle so he can't throw up the entire bottle if he gags. He's a tough feed, and always has been. He only got released from the NICU because we requested the ONE nurse who ever managed to get him to eat to do the overnight and we did EVERY feed the rest of the day - no one else has EVER gotten him to eat. Love him, but can't wait until he outgrows this crap!

Oh, and dream feeds don't work! We tried for a LONG time doing that. He only takes maybe an ounce, which .. that's not worth it.

 

Wow. I just wanted to send a hug over your way. I have one with feeding issues due to reflux and it is hard but I think your little guy takes the cake!

I just wanted to second (or third?) everyone's suggestion of putting down sooner.

I hope you are able to get out from time to time for a little break. It has got to be extremely stressful trying to get milk down that guy!

 

This is what I'd suggest. Get them up at 6 am and keep them busy playing. So they've had their 6 am bottle get them rolling around. Then work at putting them down for a nap 2 hours later in their cribs. At their age they dont' get a "real" good sleep in the swing since it is inmotion. They only sleep soundly in their cribs. I find if my girls are overtired they are so fussy with eating. My girls appetite go up and down, and some meals they eat more. I know the head issues you are discussing and I've tried that with my smallest 3rd percentile one, but it ends up being a power struggle and makes eating "forced" experience. She eats more now. Try yogurt or other foods that you know he likes near the end of the meal. I find too if the girls have too much of just veggies they get sick of it, so I often give them 3 different things each meal.

Being sick in the high chair maybe because of feeding being a "forced" experience, they are overtired by this time, or they are straining for a poop. My daughter often will puke once because when she is finally sitting she poops. She often ignores me or doesn't eat because she is straining to poop. I try to feed her first or wait until she is done. Try putting him in the highchair with lots of toys and no feeding.. just to get it more a fun time. Now when all the toys have been thrown from the highchairs it is usually time for breakfast.

So by say by 7:20 have them in the chairs playing with toys while you get their breakfast ready. If they don't eat too much it is ok, they just had a bottle at 6 am. So aim for back in bed for nap 2 hours later after they have woken up.

Try nap again say 2-2.5 most 3 hours after waking from this nap. Say 12 noon. You will like get a 3rd nap in for say 3 or 4 pm. Which will likely be just short. Make sure they are all up at 5 pm from all naps and put them down for 7 pm for the night.

Try to think of all those things you do when you put them to bed, saying the same thing, turning off the lights, pulling the blinds, turning on music... try to do the same thing each time so they will know what to expect next. If they wake up from their 1 st or 2 nap too early say 20 - 45 mins give them time to cry and they might go back to sleep.

Hope this helped.

heather