Help needed for a naughty little girl!

How do I discipline her? Last night I got home from work (this is my late week and I work until 6:00) Anyway from the moment I walked into the door the fits started. I spanked her and I could have done that all night, but it broke my heart, so I tried time out. Did I do this right? I warned her and told her the next fit she threw she was going to stand in time out in the corner. Right then she threw a fit so I picked her up and stood her in the corner holding her there. Oh she cried and cried. (Of course Kelby laughed at her).

After she was done I told her that she was in time out for throwing fits. Oh the tears started again. Probably 10 min later her and Kelby are playing and she is just hitting the crap out of him. I told her to stop and of course she didn't. I am at a lose. She hit the sitter this morning because I made her go to her so that I could leave. Right now they is very attached to me and clingy. Can anyone offer any help to me. She also is into this ehh ehh everytime she wants something. This drives me nuts and I tell her to say please.

 

Sorry no advice, but I'm in the same boat . Must be the age! Jackson is hitting Ethan A LOT and started slapping at me. He doesn't do it to anyone else. I don't know how to stop it either. I look forward to the responses.

Mendy

 

I think consistency is the key and while I am not a spanker, if the offenses would normally result in you spanking, if that is how you normally handle it, then I don't think you should change because it breaks your heart. I am sure I am not wording this correctly because as I said I don't spank but if spanking is your method of discipline and she is doing things that would normally result in a spanking then I don't think you should change that just because you would be doing it all night. If K&K do things that warrant discpline then I follow through with said discipline no matter how many times in one night they need it.

Do you think the "fits" are because she is unable to communicate the way she would like? When K&K were on the cusp of their vocabulary expanding in amazing leaps and bounds they would get frustrated when they couldn't express what they wanted to.

The age you are at was absolutely the most challenging for me so far as a mom. I can tell you that with us consistency paid off. They really were listening, even if they weren't reacting the way I had hoped, and it showed as the time passed that I wasn't just talking until I was blue in the face it really was sinking in!

 

I like the time out methods described in 1-2-3 Magic. It's really straight forward. A small book too. So not too hard to read and get through!

 

Do you think the "fits" are because she is unable to communicate the way she would like?

Maybe, but she can say please and thank you. Most of the fits is because I told her no. For example she got the dishwasher opened last night and wanted to unload it, but it was dirty. I shut the door and you would have thought I did something terrible to her. It is just little things like that.

Also, do you think that she acting out because I am not home with her because I work? Maybe it is my guilt, but every other week I work 4- 10 hour days and then I get Friday's off. I am wondering if that has any affect on her that mommy is getting home an hour later this week? It has just gotten really bad this week.

 

I find discipline to be the hardest part of my job. I am definitely a novice! But I find that 'fits' or temper tantrums end quickly when I ignore them. Joss throws FABULOUS tantrums but if I put her on the carpet and walk away she stops fairly fast.

I posted about some discipline problems earlier this week and have found the suggestions to be very useful. I have successfully used redirection and time outs and I have to thank everyone for helping!!!

 

Riley throws fits all the time and hits Skylar and she laughs. But when Skylar hits her or takes something from her Riley freaks out. You'd think someone just beat her that's how bad she freaks. But when I try and tap her hand and tell her No she laughs and does it more. So if anyone has any ideas send them my way.

 

I think 18 months-2.5 is very challenging. The fits are 100% normal and are probably a combination of all the things already mentioned.
Frustration is a lot of it. Sure they have some words, but not enough to really tell us what they want, why they want, etc.

With the dishwasher example - to her that WAS something terrible. Dirty, clean...means nothing to her. To her, she sees you getting to "play" with it all the time (put things in, take things out, etc.) and since she can not say, "hey, how come I can not play with this toy like you do" she screams. They are still babies - she used to scream when she was hungry/wet/tired and so now even thought she does have some words, she will still revert back to that old way as well. It worked for the past 18 months to get something she wanted. Only now they are bigger and those screams are fierce!

My first recommendation would be to try and redirect her and for you to try and stay calm (the hardest part). My boys are obsessed with the dishwasher too. When I close it and they start to freak, I take out a colander and some wooden spoons and place them down on the floor in front of them. They play with them for about 30 seconds and then move on - the dishwasher a distant memory....

When that does not work, my next plan of attack is empathy - give them the words to describe what they are likley feeling, so they know that you get it. So when redirecting does not work, I just let them have their fit for a minute or two and get down close and quietly & lovingly say, "I know you are mad becuase...." After a couple of minutes, it usually passes.

But when it does not, I then usually say something like "Ok, thats enough now. If you are going to continue like that go do it in the other room so you don't bother the rest of us" Every so often my daughter will do that and continue her tantrum on her own - i figure she just needs to get it out and be mad. But most of the time, she does not want to leave, so thats the end of it.

If the tantrum invovlves hurting her brothers or me or her nanny, it is straight into her room for a timeout. no pausing, no nothing. Some things don't get any "chances".

Try not to feel guilty about work. You are doing it to provide for her and it is what it is, right?

Good luck and like PP said, be consistent.

 

quote:
Maybe, but she can say please and thank you. Most of the fits is because I told her no. For example she got the dishwasher opened last night and wanted to unload it, but it was dirty. I shut the door and you would have thought I did something terrible to her. It is just little things like that.



She's just testing the boundaries, IMO. She's trying to find out just what and how much she can get away with. They all do it. Consistency is key. Press on with it, no matter how much it hurts you to do it. If you don't nip it in the bud now it will only get worse and harder to correct later.

Angela

 

I have found time out's to be fairly effective for tantrums. I can usually head one off by not responding to her tantrum, esp if it's for something stupid. Bea also throws fits over little things like no, sorry, you can't drink mommy's coffee. If she really keeps it up, I put her in the PNP and she normally calms down.

 

In my opinion, spanking an 18 month old baby is never an OK thing to do.
Spanking reinforces her negative behaiviour, you hit her when you are mad, she therefore hits you and everyone else when she is mad and frustrated.

Our children need to be led by example, all too often I hear frustrated parents saying, he/she screams and hits me and my first question normally is well do you scream and hit them?

At her age, I would think the best thing to do is to remove her from the situation. She would still have no idea what the concept of time out is, Tiffany was my more disruptive baby and I would simply refrain from any negative comments, pick her up and put her on the floor of her bedroom, I always left the door open and she would come out when she was finished. It still works to this day. When they do come out, I act as if nothing has happened and again include her in whatever we are doing. It doesnt take them long to realise that what they are doing is naughty and mummy pays no attention to my tantrums so I may aswell not bother.

Once they are able to communicate effectively I will expect an apology and will tell her why she is in there, but that works for me and many others.

 

IMO redirection is the best way to "discipline" an 18-month old (even though it isn't really discipline, but it does stop the behavior right away if done correctly). Telling an 18-month old to "stop hitting your brother" just isn't going to work. Instead, walk over and say, "We don't hit" and then move her a few feet away from him and pull out a book or toy that she can play with. It isn't rewarding behavior, it is simply redirecting her attention.

My best advice is to give her CHOICES CHOICES CHOICES. Let her make decisions that you control. For example, with the dishwasher scenario, she gets it open and wants to unload it (which my twins do daily too!) but if that isn't what you want to do then walk over, close the dishwasher, get down on her level and look in her face and say "How about we go find something to do? Would you like Mommy to read you a book or play catch with a ball? Which would you like? Book? Or Ball?" And let her choose. It will most likely take her focus away from the fact that you just nipped her dishwasher plan in the bud.

Oh, and if the word "no" sets her off, don't use it unless there is a danger involved, in which case firmly say "NO!" and clap or stomp your foot so it really grabs their attention.

My last bit of input is this: if hitting is a problem with your kids, spanking them for any wrong behavior is not going to be effective because it sends a very mixed message: 'Don't hit your brother. But I'll hit you on the bottom if you throw a fit.'

 

I think the biggest problem you are facing is that 18 month olds don't understand cause/effect, and can't internalize them into behavior changed, which is the purpose of discipline.

When Marc would through a tantrum, I would simply turn my back and ignore him. When he calmed down, he got my attention. 99% of "bad" behavior at that age is simply attention getting. So in some respect you are correct that she is probably acting out due to the long hours--but she will get used to it, kids can adapt very well. At that age, the biggest trick is to give loads of positive attention, and ignore her when she tried to get it negatively. If she is hitting her brother, separate her, and give him loads of attention. Talk to HIM about how his sister shouldn't hit, and hitting is bad. Believe me, she will listen and climb over for a hug.

18 month to 2 1/2 is the hardest time, at least it was for me!

 

quote:
In my opinion, spanking an 18 month old baby is never an OK thing to do.
Spanking reinforces her negative behaiviour, you hit her when you are mad, she therefore hits you and everyone else when she is mad and frustrated.

Our children need to be led by example, all too often I hear frustrated parents saying, he/she screams and hits me and my first question normally is well do you scream and hit them?


Let's please not get the spanking debate started again. It only leads to heated arguments and hurt feelings. Everyone disciplines in their own way and it is not for anyone else to decide if it is right or wrong. We all do what's best for our own situation.


Angela

 

Your post has been haunting me. You seem very frustrated. You say that you work late...have you considered that this concept of Mommy leaving and working long hours is a bit upsetting to an 18 month old? IMO, she is expressing her frustration with her Mommy being gone and is not doing anything "naughty". A tantrum is a way (esp. at this age) of expressing frustration with something that cannot be verbalized. She doesn't have enough words to express that she doesn't want Mommy to go. She can't make you not go so she is trying everything she knows to get your attention, for you to hear her wants and needs. Have you seen/read "The Happiest Toddler on the Block"? It is very helpful in understanding our toddlers...he basically says that they are like cavemen, their needs are very elemental and they want to be heard and understood. Instead of hitting them or yelling at them what they want is for you to say, "I understand that you're upset, but it is not OK to beat up your brother, or I understand that you don't want me to leave but I have to and here is your nice babysitter to play with you and Mommy always comes back" etc.... I don't want to get into a debate about hitting but what you are saying by hitting her is not the message you want to get across, is it? Life is frustrating, and our kids need a little empathy. 1, 2, 3 magic is a great book, but it didn't really start to work around here until they hit 2 1/2. 18 months is difficult age- there really is no discipline, only re-direction. This, of course, is only MHO.

 

I have been thinking about this alot also and I remembered something that was an issue for us. What do you do when you get home at 6? When you walk in the door on a late night, what is your routine?

I am remembering more about this stage and the thing that is the most important that is coming back to me is I had to make really quick dinners, something I could stir, put in the oven and then focus my complete attention on the children. If the food needed more attention than that we all sat in the kitchen on the floor together and played, read books etc. This is the time period when we spent alot of time in the kitchen and when the rules arrived that we could only play with balls in the kitchen. All three of us would generally play in the kitchen together with the exception of my quick stirring breaks. I actually allow bouncy balls in my kitchen and sometimes we play volleyball while dinner cooks. I know people will think I am crazy but it was a great way to get out some energy, which is especially important during the winter months when we don't get alot of time outside. The reason for this is I came to realize that they needed my attention and while yes, dinner was important it was more than just nurishment they needed from me.

So, the reason I asked about your routine is if it was anything like mine initially, get home, start dinner, get the mail etc, all things that need attention but I needed to refocus what got the most attention and when. This was also the time period when everything from dinner stayed right where it was when the meal was over until they were in bed. I didn't want to spend a moment of our evening time together doing any more chores than I had to so I would take care of everything after they went to bed. Now they are old enough where they take care of their own dishes etc but at that age I just let it go until they were asleep. The time between when I got home and when they went to bed was about 2 1/2 hours and I had to try to make the most of it. The more attention they got the better behaved they were!

 

quote:
I have been thinking about this alot also and I remembered something that was an issue for us. What do you do when you get home at 6? When you walk in the door on a late night, what is your routine?


Like I said every other week I work late. DH is off at 3:30 and he picks them up for the sitter. When I get home Kaylee greets me at the door and I sit down and hold both of them and talk to them about their day. (Not that they talk back and tell me about it) We give kisses and then I move on to see what DH is cooking or what I need to do. If I have to start supper than they are in the kitchen with me and helping of course!! Then after supper we play and play some more. They go to bed at 8. So quality time I get about 1 1/2 in when I work until 6.

Also I want to say I respect everyone's opinions, but I am not getting into the spanking debate with anyone. I have never gotten involved in these silly arguments and I will not start in my post. I dicipline my children as I see fit and not always do I spank, but I am not against spanking, nor am I opposed to learning other ways. I think this site was designed to support mom's that are having problems and learn little secrets or who just want to brag.

"Your post has been haunting me. You seem very frustrated. You say that you work late...have you considered that this concept of Mommy leaving and working long hours is a bit upsetting to an 18 month old? IMO, she is expressing her frustration with her Mommy being gone and is not doing anything "naughty". A tantrum is a way (esp. at this age) of expressing frustration with something that cannot be verbalized."

I feel they are both going through a phase and are very attached to me. It breaks my heart when I leave them and trust me I call about an hour later and they are always fine. They have been going to the sitter since they were 6 weeks old, so this isn't anything new, but I understand that they are getting older and know that mommy is leaving them. I also want to add that I do not think that I am a bad mom for not understanding their needs and wants all the time or for spanking them. Most of the time we are fine, but like I said maybe it was guilt that I have to work, but I have to and there is not getting around this. Maybe using naughty was not the appropriate word and I am sorry for this.

Last week I was frusturated, but this weekend we had a lot of bonding time and we all had a great weekend. Except they have both learned how to climb out of their cribs. On to the next problem.

 

I hope you don't feel I was judging you at all by my responses because I was not at all, I was trying to relate my experience the best I could even though they are not exactly alike.

I do believe consistency is a key but as I thought back more about when K&K were that age I realized how important it was to give them attention for no reason other than they deserve it. I remember when I was first divorced and K&K's dad was struggling with having them all alone on his weekends. He said they were always acting up and he was always having to discipline them. I asked him how he was interacting with them other wise and like I assumed he was discplining them from in front of the tv or computer or whatever. In other words the only attention they got was when he was disciplining them. I suggested he play with them and that he initiate the attention and he might find success. He did and he was soo greatful.

Now, I am not at all saying they you don't give your children attention. I am just thinking that they haven't completely adjusted to your late nights since they are not the norm and are thinking they are going to be the same as your not late nights. On those particular nights I would probably let everything slide, make an easy dinner (that is great that DH is hope early) and hope for a quick ending to this phase. I remember it well but I also remember it going almost as quickly as it came. I will hope the same for you!

ETA: Crib tents can be a sanity saver if you and/or the children are not quite ready to make the transition to beds and yet still ensure their safety.

 

quote:
I hope you don't feel I was judging you at all by my responses because I was not at all, I was trying to relate my experience the best I could even though they are not exactly alike.


Oh no I don't feel that you were judging me at all. I really do appreciate all the support and all the great responses. I post on this website to get advice from mothers who have been there done that. I always get wonderful advice. This is the first post that I have any negative comments towards me or my parenting style, but every one has an opinion and to each their own.

As far as the crib tents I am not sure what I want to do yet. So far Kaylee has only climbed out once, so if it becomes a bigger problem than I will look into something. I don't think I am ready to switch them to beds yet.

Once again thanks to everyone. I really don't think Kaylee is a naughty girl, but I couldn't think of a term to use to get my point across. Sorry if I offended anyone!!